Boundary setting question

[Ninja'sHusband]

Of all things, this little detail bothers me. It seems to be an indicator of your wife's attitude all along. She's not encouraged you ("It'll be hard but I believe in you"), she's actually belittled you, set you up to fail, subtly driving home a message that she is so much better than you.

 

Yeah that pissed me off too (notice the sarcasm in my original statement about it). It actually sparked another fight when she said that.

[beach]

Yeah that pissed me off too (notice the sarcasm in my original statement about it). It actually sparked another fight when she said that.

 

And it should piss you off. Everything she's doing and not doing should be pissing you off. Yet you continue to allow her to treat you this way. That is the part that is harming your daughter too. She's got her Mom as her example of how to treat a man and Husband. She is at the age where she's learning what men will and will not tolerate. Your wife is teaching her to disrespect a husband and you are teaching her that men should allow that. That is why it's hurting her to see the way this is going.

[ISurvived]

DD = daughter..but what is the 2nd D?

 

Darling daughter.

[whichwayisup]

Your daughter knows you two aren't clicking and something is off. I'm sure the energy in the house is not good at times. Plus, depending on her age, she more than likely has heard conversations or even listened on purpose. Kids snoop!! Especially girls! Girls are very intune to what's going on around them, especially if you two HAVE fought in front of her, your wife has cried around her. You don't think your daughter hasn't noticed how unattentive her mom is at times? Not mentally there and not participating in family moments throughout the week?

 

If you two separate, it won't be because of "your" doing. And your daughter wouldn't be shocked and fall apart into tiny pieces not seeing this coming. SHE knows something isn't right between you two.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Your daughter knows you two aren't clicking and something is off. I'm sure the energy in the house is not good at times. Plus, depending on her age, she more than likely has heard conversations or even listened on purpose. Kids snoop!! Especially girls! Girls are very intune to what's going on around them, especially if you two HAVE fought in front of her, your wife has cried around her. You don't think your daughter hasn't noticed how unattentive her mom is at times? Not mentally there and not participating in family moments throughout the week?

 

If you two separate, it won't be because of "your" doing. And your daughter wouldn't be shocked and fall apart into tiny pieces not seeing this coming. SHE knows something isn't right between you two.

 

I agree, she probably has. And you are saying that I am harming her by being a bad example of how to handle a *past* A and W's current behavior. The problem is I disagree on what the right thing to do is in this situation. So in my mind, I'm showing her the right things: Patience, love, and putting the family first, as opposed to punishment and war.

 

If my W were still in the A, I might agree with you, and so would some of the literature out there...but as it stands NONE of the literature I've read supports what you are saying.

 

You guys might as well stop saying my W has had no consequences...I'm not going to repeat the many consequences again.

[ISurvived]

I agree, she probably has. And you are saying that I am harming her by being a bad example of how to handle a *past* A and W's current behavior. The problem is I disagree on what the right thing to do is in this situation. So in my mind, I'm showing her the right things: Patience, love, and putting the family first, as opposed to punishment and war.

 

If my W were still in the A, I might agree with you, and so would some of the literature out there...but as it stands NONE of the literature I've read supports what you are saying.

 

You guys might as well stop saying my W has had no consequences...I'm not going to repeat the many consequences again.

 

What consequences have you followed through with? Real consequences. She still gets to do what she wants, when she wants. She treats you however she wants. Real great life you have there.

 

I agree with love and respect. You need to speak truth in love. Right now you are nothing more than a glorified doormat.

 

Yes, literature supports what we are saying. The MB plan has a POJA. Don't have one of those do you? Says both spouses have to do the work. That ain't happening. Says not to continue with LB. WW ain't doing that.

 

Face it, you don't want to own up to the truth anymore than Belle does.

 

First step in fixing a problem, admitting there is a problem. Second step, doing whatever it takes to fix the problem.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Here's some cut'n' pastes of stuff I've said before:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/314134-boundary-setting-question-18.html#post3864848

She's had plenty of consequences. I listed many of them in an earlier post, the worst of which was the miscarriage, most horrible thing I've ever seen her go through.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/314134-boundary-setting-question-28.html#post3921446

I've talked to the OM, OMW (via paper), MIL, FIL, SIL, a dojo member, 2 of our best friends, my father, coworkers... I've spied on her constantly, made her face everything in counseling and in discussions at home, made threats, moved out of the bedroom, yelled, etc, etc.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/314134-boundary-setting-question-6.html#post3834632

If you asked my wife she would definitely say I've held her accountable. She feels spied on, yelled at, threatened, cold shouldered, scared her husband is going to commit suicide, scared her daughter is slipping in school because of home problems, physically ill, sleep deprived from so much discussing and arguing, denied from training, distanced from her sister (when I told her about the A...obviously this weekend things are healing between them), and now she may lose her husband in 2 weeks.

I think in total she missed about 2 months of classes + events.

 

And I'm not exactly ignoring all the advice given to me here. Things I actually did were:

1)Tell the OMW

2) Demand she quit classes...just realized I'd rather not follow through with D.

3) Start getting involved with her MA, suggestion by Kathy:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/314134-boundary-setting-question-3.html#post3833776

also suggested in the Harley books, though they would say we should pick a sport together. I tried to suggest fencing...but W is too deep in.

 

 

Also the main issue I started this thread for may actually be solved. NC with OM. Not exactly proven yet, but we may have actually achieved it. Over the last 6 months, the only real contact has been:

 

1) 1 class where I was present

2) Text messages

3) One in person meeting where she tried to get him to sign a declaration of intent (he refused)

 

Still think I should separate over this? They are in NC right now, it could break but likely I'll be there when it happens...and they have no intention of starting the A back up anyway.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[ISurvived]

Here's some cut'n' pastes of stuff I've said before:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/314134-boundary-setting-question-18.html#post3864848

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/314134-boundary-setting-question-28.html#post3921446

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/314134-boundary-setting-question-6.html#post3834632

I think in total she missed about 2 months of classes + events.

 

And I'm not exactly ignoring all the advice given to me here. Things I actually did were:

1)Tell the OMW

2) Demand she quit classes...just realized I'd rather not follow through with D.

3) Start getting involved with her MA, suggestion by Kathy:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/314134-boundary-setting-question-3.html#post3833776

also suggested in the Harley books, though they would say we should pick a sport together. I tried to suggest fencing...but W is too deep in.

 

 

Also the main issue I started this thread for may actually be solved. NC with OM. Not exactly proven yet, but we may have actually achieved it. Over the last 6 months, the only real contact has been:

 

1) 1 class where I was present

2) Text messages

3) One in person meeting where she tried to get him to sign a declaration of intent (he refused)

 

Still think I should separate over this? They are in NC right now, it could break but likely I'll be there when it happens...and they have no intention of starting the A back up anyway.

 

You are 6 months in and this is how she still acts. No remorse, etc.

 

I am so sorry for the miscarriage.

 

Unless she is remorseful for the A, not for getting caught and having to deal with the aftermath, how can you say she will stay NC?

 

She is still involved in the sport where she had the A. Has it ever crossed your mind that this keeps her in the A mindset?

 

So you are saying she would pick the sport over you and your DD? Yeah, sounds like a great recovery.

 

I wish you well. Seems you are spinning your wheels and settling for less than you and your DD deserve.

[Ninja'sHusband]

You are 6 months in and this is how she still acts. No remorse, etc.

 

I am so sorry for the miscarriage.

 

Unless she is remorseful for the A, not for getting caught and having to deal with the aftermath, how can you say she will stay NC?

 

She is still involved in the sport where she had the A. Has it ever crossed your mind that this keeps her in the A mindset?

 

So you are saying she would pick the sport over you and your DD? Yeah, sounds like a great recovery.

 

I wish you well. Seems you are spinning your wheels and settling for less than you and your DD deserve.

 

True it is less than I deserve, but a split family is even less than that for my daughter. Priorities.

 

Oh and you may be right, our M might be doomed long term, we may very well D later on down the road...but I won't see the years as wasted as a lot of people here (my W as well) seem to.

[beach]

You see - the consequences have mostly been you having to keep track of her etc.

 

That isn't the way repairing the damage she caused works.

 

Think of it like this: the dojo is the same idea as another WS having a workplace affair. If she doesn't quit then this shows by her actions that it's her priority over the marriage. If she's not willing to go to any length to put your mind at ease and rest then she's just going to wait long enough for the dust to settle then start up again.

 

Some married couples even consider moving far away to show willingness to change everything about the prior marriage and how much they intend things to become different than before.

 

Willingness is key. Nothing should be ruled out as a new marriage is started. But if she hangs on to any of the old and you allow it by not demanding changes then you just essentially are moving forward by carrying all of what has been broken about the prior state of the marriage.

 

Moving forward without change and her changing and offering up that change will only lead to her self entitlement seeking the affair again, mainly because she can.

[ISurvived]

True it is less than I deserve, but a split family is even less than that for my daughter. Priorities.

 

Oh and you may be right, our M might be doomed long term, we may very well D later on down the road...but I won't see the years as wasted as a lot of people here (my W as well) seem to.

 

What you are living is worse than a split family for your DD.

 

She is seeing that you can do what you want, when you want with no consequences. Don't be fooled for a minute she has no idea whats going on. Kids hear what we think they don't and see what we think we hide.

 

You priority should be protecting your DD from your WW. She is still a WS. She is just going through the motions to keep you off her back. I would bet dollars to donuts that she has just gone way underground with this A. I pray not, but I fear this is what has happened.

 

One question. Why would you want a W that really shows no remorse and acts like she doesn't want to be with you?

[Ninja'sHusband]

What you are living is worse than a split family for your DD.

 

She is seeing that you can do what you want, when you want with no consequences. Don't be fooled for a minute she has no idea whats going on. Kids hear what we think they don't and see what we think we hide.

Sorry, I disagree. It's a lot more important to have two parents everyday of your life. There is so much more to life than demonstrating you should get revenge over an A that they won't even understand for 8 more years. I don't agree with what you think is the right example or your reprehensible disregard for keeping a family intact. In fact, the thought just makes me angry

You priority should be protecting your DD from your WW. She is still a WS. She is just going through the motions to keep you off her back. I would bet dollars to donuts that she has just gone way underground with this A. I pray not, but I fear this is what has happened.

Just because you think she's doing harm in this one way...does not even begin to negate all the *amazing* things my W does for my DD. There is a reason I am fighting for this M. You don't know my WW just from this thread...you can never know her the way I do. sorry, just facts. You've seen the worst part of her scrutinized and focused on.

 

One question. Why would you want a W that really shows no remorse and acts like she doesn't want to be with you?

I don't want this. I tolerate it for now, hoping things will change.

[ISurvived]

Sorry, I disagree. It's a lot more important to have two parents everyday of your life. There is so much more to life than demonstrating you should get revenge over an A that they won't even understand for 8 more years. I don't agree with what you think is the right example or your reprehensible disregard for keeping a family intact. In fact, the thought just makes me angry

Just because you think she's doing harm in this one way...does not even begin to negate all the *amazing* things my W does for my DD. There is a reason I am fighting for this M. You don't know my WW just from this thread...you can never know her the way I do. sorry, just facts. You've seen the worst part of her scrutinized and focused on.

 

I don't want this. I tolerate it for now, hoping things will change.

 

So it's more important to have two parents no matter what the circumstances? What if your WW was physically abusing you or drunk all the time? Is that OK just as long as there are two parents.

 

I strongly support two parents and fighting for your marriage. I don't have disregard for keeping your marriage intact. I fought tooth and nail for mine. The difference is my FWW was remorseful, worked hard and wanted R. It's a lot different than your situation.

 

Get angry at me all you want. It's misplaced. You should be angry at your WW. I'm doing way more to help you through this than she is.

 

Fair enough. I don't know your WW as well as you do. I know behaviors, signs and symptoms though. Better than you, sadly, for me.

 

I'm pulling for you. I just don't want you to lose yourself while waiting for something that may never happen.

[whichwayisup]

I don't want to see you and your wife split up. I DO want to see her with more effort towards fixing this marriage and putting you first above her own needs. But, if she continues dismissing you, your feelings and needs like she is now, your marriage WILL continue to get worse, and harder to save as time goes on.

 

What if things remain the same as they are now by summer time? What if your wife is still not making efforts, picking and choosing when she 'feels' up to going to marriage counselling? Still calling the shots, and being in control instead of compromising and working with you, instead of against you?

 

What happens then?

[Ninja'sHusband]

I don't want to see you and your wife split up. I DO want to see her with more effort towards fixing this marriage and putting you first above her own needs. But, if she continues dismissing you, your feelings and needs like she is now, your marriage WILL continue to get worse, and harder to save as time goes on.

 

What if things remain the same as they are now by summer time? What if your wife is still not making efforts, picking and choosing when she 'feels' up to going to marriage counselling? Still calling the shots, and being in control instead of compromising and working with you, instead of against you?

 

What happens then?

 

If things stay the same as right now, I'd probably continue to tough it out. Things at the moment aren't so bad. NC in affect, the fighting is trailing off again. I'm starting to feel more confident about the OM not being at events.

 

The thing that will regress us is if OM shows up...and if she continues to take no action to fix things....yeah we might separate cause I do have limits. I've just learned that communicating a threat is not the way to go. I can have my own internal timetable...but that needs to be my knowledge not hers.

[whichwayisup]

If things stay the same as right now, I'd probably continue to tough it out. Things at the moment aren't so bad. NC in affect, the fighting is trailing off again. I'm starting to feel more confident about the OM not being at events.

 

The thing that will regress us is if OM shows up...and if she continues to take no action to fix things....yeah we might separate cause I do have limits. I've just learned that communicating a threat is not the way to go. I can have my own internal timetable...but that needs to be my knowledge not hers.

 

The thing is, neither of you have any control on if the xOM shows up anywhere where she (and you) might be. Might be best for her to detach from this group and begin to think about joining another group. So what if it's slightly further away, she drives doesn't she?

 

Bolded part.. That's good to know. I just don't like reading how she treating you and how she is acting right now. So selfish and putting her needs above you and what is best for the family unit. Not good.

 

Sidenote: How do you know if xOM's wife got the package? You say you haven't heard from her for 2 months. What if he found it before she did.. Just a thought to consider..

[2sunny]

I agree with the comment don't lose yourself trying to save the M.

 

I'm not sure it hasn't already happened though. You give up your integrity and your basis of what you thought you believed in - many times only to find that you weren't fighting for what you thought you were.

 

Is it really a marriage when she's disrespecting and disregarding the one she used to say she loved? No

 

Since she won't say she loves you - I would act completely neutral with her - and I mean completely void of how you feel. I'd start answering her with a minimum of 4 word answers with your top ones being yes, no, maybe, we shall see and thanks for telling me. Indifference can create change inher.

 

Try it - it works!

 

No reason to ever react or over react to her at this point - create an environment where she starts making more effort than you. You can do that by being less emotionally tied to the outcome. When YOU do less - it automatically forces HER to DO more.

 

This is what you want, yes?

 

You also may defend her as a Mother - but she wasn't a good Mother when she screwed her OM over and over - that was calculated - and very harmful to your daughters future - by harming the Marriage.

 

But she had to know you weren't going to follow through with consequences or she wouldn't have considered it.

 

And now by staying you've just given her the hall pass she wanted to cheat in the future.

 

She bullies you and manipulates you. Nothing about that is a healthy Marriage.

 

Are you TWO in marriage counseling EVERY week? You should be - the marriage is in crisis!

[Ninja'sHusband]

The thing is, neither of you have any control on if the xOM shows up anywhere where she (and you) might be. Might be best for her to detach from this group and begin to think about joining another group. So what if it's slightly further away, she drives doesn't she?

 

Bolded part.. That's good to know. I just don't like reading how she treating you and how she is acting right now. So selfish and putting her needs above you and what is best for the family unit. Not good.

 

Sidenote: How do you know if xOM's wife got the package? You say you haven't heard from her for 2 months. What if he found it before she did.. Just a thought to consider..

The MA she does isn't one of the more popular ones...so there aren't a lot of good dojos =P I really wish she'd quit...but I already barked up that tree to the brink of D sooo....

I don't like how she's treating me either . Pretty inconsiderate.

 

I put the package directly into the OMW's hands. The only way it could have been intercepted is if she didn't read it, stowed it away somewhere...and OM found it before she read it.

 

The way he's just vanished seems to say that she's holding him back. He was taking time off to help his kid with a project for a while...but that should have ended ages ago now. I could always try to talk to the OMW, my W has even asked me to track OM via OMW now that she knows about the packet. I told W that she should have told OMW, her response is that OM should have done that.....and I'm like well of course...there's an order to it:

OM, YOU, Me. Since OM and You didn't have the stuff to tell, I had to. Same thing here, the A is *your* responsibility. I shouldn't have to call around asking where OM is and where he's gonna be....you should just avoid places where he is going to be! So anyway, I've avoided contacting the OMW again because if she wants to be left alone, I think she has that right. I gave her all my contact info, tons of information on the A. She could reach me at any time. I also told her that if she never wanted to hear from me again, that was fine, I'd respect that. So yeah, I'm just trying to give her space. I don't really even know if she read the packet..it just reeaallly seems like she did and has her claws out =D What do you think? Should I make a follow up call, or visit? I'm worried about suddenly finding myself in hostile territory. Might not be like that at all though.

[beach]

The MA she does isn't one of the more popular ones...so there aren't a lot of good dojos =P I really wish she'd quit...but I already barked up that tree to the brink of D sooo....

I don't like how she's treating me either . Pretty inconsiderate.

 

I put the package directly into the OMW's hands. The only way it could have been intercepted is if she didn't read it, stowed it away somewhere...and OM found it before she read it.

 

The way he's just vanished seems to say that she's holding him back. He was taking time off to help his kid with a project for a while...but that should have ended ages ago now. I could always try to talk to the OMW, my W has even asked me to track OM via OMW now that she knows about the packet. I told W that she should have told OMW, her response is that OM should have done that.....and I'm like well of course...there's an order to it:

OM, YOU, Me. Since OM and You didn't have the stuff to tell, I had to. Same thing here, the A is *your* responsibility. I shouldn't have to call around asking where OM is and where he's gonna be....you should just avoid places where he is going to be! So anyway, I've avoided contacting the OMW again because if she wants to be left alone, I think she has that right. I gave her all my contact info, tons of information on the A. She could reach me at any time. I also told her that if she never wanted to hear from me again, that was fine, I'd respect that. So yeah, I'm just trying to give her space. I don't really even know if she read the packet..it just reeaallly seems like she did and has her claws out =D What do you think? Should I make a follow up call, or visit? I'm worried about suddenly finding myself in hostile territory. Might not be like that at all though.

 

I'd say it's more than inconsiderate. Seems like a word that's not strong enough.

 

She acts like she's not one bit sorry she did it. Seems sorry she got caught. Big difference.

 

And the other mans wife. Since you stated you wouldn't reach her again then it's best to honor your word and not contact her.

[turnera]

You're misunderstanding what a boundary/consequence means.

 

It is YOU saying 'If you do ABC, then I will do XYZ." It's not God giving her a miscarriage. (no offense)

 

What boundaries have YOU erected about having a wife who will no longer cheat? What consequences is she experiencing?

[beach]

I agree with the comment don't lose yourself trying to save the M.

 

I'm not sure it hasn't already happened though. You give up your integrity and your basis of what you thought you believed in - many times only to find that you weren't fighting for what you thought you were.

 

Is it really a marriage when she's disrespecting and disregarding the one she used to say she loved? No

 

Since she won't say she loves you - I would act completely neutral with her - and I mean completely void of how you feel. I'd start answering her with a minimum of 4 word answers with your top ones being yes, no, maybe, we shall see and thanks for telling me. Indifference can create change inher.

 

Try it - it works!

 

No reason to ever react or over react to her at this point - create an environment where she starts making more effort than you. You can do that by being less emotionally tied to the outcome. When YOU do less - it automatically forces HER to DO more.

 

This is what you want, yes?

 

You also may defend her as a Mother - but she wasn't a good Mother when she screwed her OM over and over - that was calculated - and very harmful to your daughters future - by harming the Marriage.

 

But she had to know you weren't going to follow through with consequences or she wouldn't have considered it.

 

And now by staying you've just given her the hall pass she wanted to cheat in the future.

 

She bullies you and manipulates you. Nothing about that is a healthy Marriage.

 

Are you TWO in marriage counseling EVERY week? You should be - the marriage is in crisis!

 

This ^^^^

 

It may be useful to place a voice activated recorder in your wife's purse at this point. Some of them can look like a pen. She's not working and has all day to do her thing. It's time to find out what she says when you're not around her. Buy one too for that trip she's planning to take. See if they have an extended time on them. Or consider sending a PI to follow her every move.

 

Either way since she's not giving huge reassurances for you to have your peace of mind it's time you resort to finding out more of what she has going on and who she's talking to and what she's saying when you're not present.

 

It may even tell you what she talks to the counselor about. If she's been honest with the counselor and what she's supposed to be doing from the direction the counselor gives her.

 

More than anything stop interacting with her much unless necessary. She needs to know she hurt you and she needs to be the one to start making the effort. The more you make effort the less she's going to.

 

It's time to tell her that you need to care less than she does.

[beach]

You're misunderstanding what a boundary/consequence means.

 

It is YOU saying 'If you do ABC, then I will do XYZ." It's not God giving her a miscarriage. (no offense)

 

What boundaries have YOU erected about having a wife who will no longer cheat? What consequences is she experiencing?

 

A healthy boundary means I don't end up feeling bad in order to make you feel good. That's very unhealthy.

 

It also means I don't make you feel bad in order to make me feel good.

 

Both of those are just blatantly mean spirited.

[Ninja'sHusband]

You're misunderstanding what a boundary/consequence means.

 

It is YOU saying 'If you do ABC, then I will do XYZ." It's not God giving her a miscarriage. (no offense)

 

What boundaries have YOU erected about having a wife who will no longer cheat? What consequences is she experiencing?

Ok by "consequence" you mean "punishment" or more accurately "revenge".

 

I have a stock answer for you now!

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/314134-boundary-setting-question-31.html#post3930220

 

It's all in there

 

And I think natural consequences are a pretty powerful thing...there isn't much I could do to her that's worse than the miscarriage. And read my last post about what "will" happen give certain behaviors.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Originally Posted by 2sunny

I agree with the comment don't lose yourself trying to save the M.

 

I'm not sure it hasn't already happened though. You give up your integrity and your basis of what you thought you believed in - many times only to find that you weren't fighting for what you thought you were.

 

Is it really a marriage when she's disrespecting and disregarding the one she used to say she loved? No

 

Since she won't say she loves you - I would act completely neutral with her - and I mean completely void of how you feel. I'd start answering her with a minimum of 4 word answers with your top ones being yes, no, maybe, we shall see and thanks for telling me. Indifference can create change inher.

 

Try it - it works!

 

No reason to ever react or over react to her at this point - create an environment where she starts making more effort than you. You can do that by being less emotionally tied to the outcome. When YOU do less - it automatically forces HER to DO more.

 

This is what you want, yes?

 

You also may defend her as a Mother - but she wasn't a good Mother when she screwed her OM over and over - that was calculated - and very harmful to your daughters future - by harming the Marriage.

 

But she had to know you weren't going to follow through with consequences or she wouldn't have considered it.

 

And now by staying you've just given her the hall pass she wanted to cheat in the future.

 

She bullies you and manipulates you. Nothing about that is a healthy Marriage.

 

Are you TWO in marriage counseling EVERY week? You should be - the marriage is in crisis!

I could pull back more, I do agree with that. Even Divorce Remedy says don't say "I love you" cause it's like a challenge for them to respond in kind.

 

The whole limbo thing makes it confusing on what to do =\ She's mostly in the M now...but still is holding back.. Going to another therapy session tomorrow. Probably will talk more about limbo state. I find it really confusing. I could definitely be more mysterious, I'm probably too open.

 

I talked about MC earlier...she's not going right now. Says she will work back into it over time. IC for her first...though she hasn't setup a session and has little time now with school.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[beach]

I could pull back more, I do agree with that. Even Divorce Remedy says don't say "I love you" cause it's like a challenge for them to respond in kind.

 

The whole limbo thing makes it confusing on what to do =\ She's mostly in the M now...but still is holding back.. Going to another therapy session tomorrow. Probably will talk more about limbo state. I find it really confusing. I could definitely be more mysterious, I'm probably too open.

 

I talked about MC earlier...she's not going right now. Says she will work back into it over time. IC for her first...though she hasn't setup a session and has little time now with school.

 

 

You seem to be perceiving it from an entirely different angle. It's not about mystery. It's about staying neutral. The one who cares the most has the least amount of power and that is you.

 

It's not designed to be mysterious. It's design so that you can feel good and balanced about you. No matter what she is or isn't doing.

 

It's designed to get her to DO more while YOU make less effort to R the Marriage.

 

It's designed to take more care of you.

 

You should/could be doing more for yourself. Be sure and work out. Go to the movie theatre. Join a few groups with common interests. All separate from your wife. This helps you grow as a person and on your own. It also allows you some time for distraction from her crap and gives you some reprieve and outlets that are healthy. Away from her. On your own. To meet others and have fun. With no reason other than to grow and learn and become interested in tons of new things that YOU enjoy!

 

It's healthy to have separate interests as long as you have a healthy boundary and are trustworthy when you meet new folks.

 

Time to branch out. No more relying soley on her for all your interests and happiness! You might really like it. I hope so!