Boundary setting question

[Ninja'sHusband]

You seem to be perceiving it from an entirely different angle. It's not about mystery. It's about staying neutral. The one who cares the most has the least amount of power and that is you.

 

It's not designed to be mysterious. It's design so that you can feel good and balanced about you. No matter what she is or isn't doing.

 

It's designed to get her to DO more while YOU make less effort to R the Marriage.

 

It's designed to take more care of you.

 

You should/could be doing more for yourself. Be sure and work out. Go to the movie theatre. Join a few groups with common interests. All separate from your wife. This helps you grow as a person and on your own. It also allows you some time for distraction from her crap and gives you some reprieve and outlets that are healthy. Away from her. On your own. To meet others and have fun. With no reason other than to grow and learn and become interested in tons of new things that YOU enjoy!

 

It's healthy to have separate interests as long as you have a healthy boundary and are trustworthy when you meet new folks.

 

Time to branch out. No more relying soley on her for all your interests and happiness! You might really like it. I hope so!

Meh, neutral, mystery, same difference. I ran 5 miles this morning, 9.5 this weekend. I've been working out consistently since...uh...September? I'm actually doing ok. My grief was expelled during the week after we had "decided to D". The "crap" that gets me is when she goes to a MA event...or when I say "I love you" and she doesn't bother to answer. So yeah I shouldn't say it anymore. The MA events...well she misses out on stuff and I tend to passive aggressive her about it ^^ She missed the neighborhood Easter Egg hunt on Sat....she was the only W on the block not there. Not that W ignored Easter...combined with the ILs, that was the largest Easter morning loot pile I've EVER seen.

 

 

Mostly your advice sounds like what my plan was when she had her rings off and was sleeping in the other room. Could barely even walk next to me. Yeah...I backed way the hell up...worked actually.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[whichwayisup]

^^ She missed the neighborhood Easter Egg hunt on Sat....she was the only W on the block not there. Not that W ignored Easter...combined with the ILs, that was the largest Easter morning loot pile I've EVER seen.

Well, this just says it all, doesn't it. She missed something important - As a family unit on Easter weekend. For her MA event. Hello, selfish! Did she even consider how her own daughter would feel by this? My guess is no. Forget the fact she was the only mom not part of this, who cares what the neighbours thought about it.. What counts is your kid. Yeah and make up part for it was the amount of easter loot the next day and the I love you's. An after thought.

 

Yes, stop telling her you love her. Be subtle and do less for her. Focus on you and your daughter.

 

*that really pisses me off, that she did that on easter weekend. I don't know anybody who would skip out like that to do a 'hobby'.

[ISurvived]

Ok by "consequence" you mean "punishment" or more accurately "revenge".

 

I have a stock answer for you now!

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/314134-boundary-setting-question-31.html#post3930220

 

It's all in there

 

And I think natural consequences are a pretty powerful thing...there isn't much I could do to her that's worse than the miscarriage. And read my last post about what "will" happen give certain behaviors.

 

The boundary is your boundary. It is what you consider acceptable to YOU.

 

My example: I told my FWW after D Day 2 that she had to quit her job and go to MC or I was done. It wasn't a threat, it was the truth. I was not going to stay in a marriage where she continued to work with the OM. I decided that my and my children's mental and physical health was worth more than staying with her. I have been married for soon to be 22 years, 18 at the time of the A. I love my FWW with every fiber of my being. Then and now. There comes a time when you have to protect yourself and your children.

Long story short, she walked away from a lucrative career and we are now happily recovered. Hard work by both of us. Not just me, not just her, BOTH.

 

Hopefully soon either your WW will wake up and smell the coffee or you will.

 

BTW, quit making excuses for her. She's a grown woman. She could make time for screwing another man, she could make time for MC.

[whichwayisup]

 

BTW, quit making excuses for her. She's a grown woman. She could make time for screwing another man, she could make time for MC.

 

This^! Yes. Exactly...

 

There's no excuse for her not to go. The only reason why it's not happening (both MC and IC) is because she..does..not..want..to. That is the bottomline. WHY doesn't she want to go? This is something for you to bring up to the therapist when you go.

[beach]

This^! Yes. Exactly...

 

There's no excuse for her not to go. The only reason why it's not happening (both MC and IC) is because she..does..not..want..to. That is the bottomline. WHY doesn't she want to go? This is something for you to bring up to the therapist when you go.

 

It's not her priority. Healing her marriage isn't her priority. That's the only reason she's not going.

 

Plain and simple! I know a ton of CEO, COO's that fly all over the world. When healing their marriage is their TOP priority, they adjust their schedule to MAKE time for that priority.

 

Most people are extremely busy, she's not so busy that she finds time for her martial arts.

[beach]

I'd like to say something about that miscarriage that you think is her consequence.

 

She did affect her daughter by risking giving her a half sibling to possibly pass it off as a full blooded sibling. Deception.

 

She risked the pregnancy with the idea that IF and WHEN she had that child it would have been your baby! Deception. Who knows if she intended to ever tell you that it may or may not have been yours. We will never know mainly because she decided to tell you when she miscarried.

 

She also risked your health by exposing you to diseases, life threatening diseases. She wasn't considering you enough to protect against that much less pregnancy. What a complete betrayal.

 

And then she has you feeling so sorry for her that she doesn't have consequences that could change things within this marriage.

 

She thinks too much of herself. She thinks not enough of you. And you let her think less of you and that is the part that hurts this marriage.

 

Demand MC. Demand she quit the dojo. Demand that she consider moving far away with you. Then see if she's willing.

 

If she doesn't agree to any and all of what you require to feel better about you then you don't have a wife who truly loves you.

 

 

I highly suggest the voice activated recorder. Best to get it in operating condition tonight.

 

That Easter thing is just wrong. she brought her parents in and then took off to do what she wanted? Then over compensated by doing big on Sunday. Over compensating is a sign of guilt. Yet you all were probably busy on Saturday and she could do as she wished while you all were a bit busy.

 

I don't buy that she's as good as you say. She acts out of guilt and entitlement. Nothing good about that.

 

She may have you snowed. That's what overcompensating will do. Also her pushing you back into your place works well for her. She does it like she's practiced it for years.

 

Time to take away her manipulative ways that seem to work to her advantage and get things exactly as she plans.

 

You go back to your natural place very easily. You could stop doing that for her too. It might just change things.

 

Aren't you in this to change the marriage at this point? Oh yes, I ink you are. So start changing you. Start changing everything you've ever done for and with her.

 

Change is good.

 

Let her figure out what she's created. You've been busy covering up and making it seem ok. It's not ok.

 

And act like its not ok! Your marriage is on the line. Since she's not doing anything to make it better allow it to look as crappy as it feels.

 

A life lesson for your daughter is that sometimes things are crappy and when they are we don't lie to ourselves and pretend to others that it's not crappy. Real feelings real life and real solutions to problems. Standing there acting like nothing is wrong is lying to your daughter. She should know there's problems. She should know you two are making effort to work toward a solution.

 

THAT is REAL life. The sooner she realizes that you will be honest with her the more she can see what two people need to be doing in a marriage when they INTEND to fix the problem.

[2sunny]

I don't trust your father in law. He's done destructive things along the way. Undermining your recovery and giving your wife money without your knowledge. He goes behind your back.hmmm, I wonder where she learned this behavior?

 

Your mother in law on the other hand seems to be a good solid friend of your marriage. A good voice of reasoning.

 

I'd be leery of her father - he's not a friend of your marriage. He looks like he could be planning and plotting with your wife for her exit.

[2sunny]

Go read the thread by Jstub. He's got a lousy situation and has managed to stay strong and have a very healthy boundary along the way.

 

His lousy situation makes yours look like a gem.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Beach, I didn't make an excuse for her on the IC\MC thing...I was just repeating what she said =\

 

Who knows if she intended to ever tell you that it may or may not have been yours. We will never know mainly because she decided to tell you when she miscarried.

Err, no question there. That's how I found out about the A initially. She told me of her own initiative, same night she told me she was pregnant. The part that sucks about it is lied about the scope, that it was only one time. She's never admitted this, but it's clear to me that she told me for the OM's sake, so he could have a chance at being a father if he was proven to be the real father.

 

 

That Easter thing is just wrong. she brought her parents in and then took off to do what she wanted? Then over compensated by doing big on Sunday. Over compensating is a sign of guilt. Yet you all were probably busy on Saturday and she could do as she wished while you all were a bit busy.

This is just funny to me...you really don't know, and can't ever know my wife. She loooooves Easter and always plays it up..all 18 years I've known her. Oh and her parents weren't here. They always send stuff for Easter...

 

My WW did some pretty crappy stuff, yup, no excuse. I need to stop defending myself to random strangers....just silly.

 

I did have a question though, I'll repeat it:

 

Do you think I should make a follow up call to the OMW? Or should I just let her contact me if she needs to.

[whichwayisup]

Do you think I should make a follow up call to the OMW? Or should I just let her contact me if she needs to.

 

If you feel YOU need to talk to her and it'll help you, then call and leave a message. Make it clear to her that you don't wish to hurt her anymore than she already is and that if she isn't interested in talking, you'll respect that and not call again (unless some how exOM and your wife talk, email or see one another)..

[2sunny]

If she was planning to give this OM a chance at being the father - then she was also planning to be with him - no doubt about it.

 

She may still be planning that - but just took her plan further underground.

 

And you don't find that you have every right to be damn mad at her for the level of her deception? You think when your daughter knows her truth - she won't be affected by that? She will!

 

It's up to you to take a stand to show your daughter how wrong it all is! She should see that Dad is being affected in a very strong way - by a Mom who continues to harm him. She needs to see what is real instead of all this pretending that things are ok when it's not ok.

 

She needs to know that you stand firm on principles and you have been treated poorly.

 

She needs to know that you aren't acting happy because you aren't happy! And Mom has done things to cause your unhappiness by her actions and now her inactions.

 

And she needs to understand that you hope she won't grow up to be a selfish, entitled and self serving woman like her Mom.

 

You CAN show her what is real. That won't hurt her - it will help her to understand how you feel about what is terribly wrong right now.

 

There's nothing wrong with stopping these lies you have been going along with!

[beach]

Beach, I didn't make an excuse for her on the IC\MC thing...I was just repeating what she said =\

 

 

Err, no question there. That's how I found out about the A initially. She told me of her own initiative, same night she told me she was pregnant. The part that sucks about it is lied about the scope, that it was only one time. She's never admitted this, but it's clear to me that she told me for the OM's sake, so he could have a chance at being a father if he was proven to be the real father.

 

This is just funny to me...you really don't know, and can't ever know my wife. She loooooves Easter and always plays it up..all 18 years I've known her. Oh and her parents weren't here. They always send stuff for Easter...

 

My WW did some pretty crappy stuff, yup, no excuse. I need to stop defending myself to random strangers....just silly.

 

I did have a question though, I'll repeat it:

 

Do you think I should make a follow up call to the OMW? Or should I just let her contact me if she needs to.

 

You may not have made excuses but you don't seem to be getting professional help as a couple. Your marriage is in crisis! You guys need help and you should be getting that help at least once a week. At a minimum a counselor would be holding her accountable for what she is and isn't doing to save the marriage.

 

She would also have assignments to report back. Assignments designed to heal the marriage and help it grow and become more balanced and healthy.

 

But you won't have that help if you accept her roadblocks and excuses for not working at this getting better.

 

 

As for the OM wife. I'm torn. I would love for you to contact her and find out what is going on in their camp. It would be helpful to understand what their plan is. It would help to know what lies he's told her too. Also if she has any additional info you haven't yet heard.

 

But you gave your word that you wouldn't contact. I am one of those rare people that when I give my word - I DO what I say.

 

I'm ONLY as good as my word. My word represents everything that I am. All of me.

 

But that's just me.

 

I know most people don't honor their word as much as I do.

 

So I can tell you that I'm torn for you. It's your call.

[turnera]

Ok by "consequence" you mean "punishment" or more accurately "revenge".

 

I have a stock answer for you now!

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/314134-boundary-setting-question-31.html#post3930220

 

It's all in there

 

And I think natural consequences are a pretty powerful thing...there isn't much I could do to her that's worse than the miscarriage. And read my last post about what "will" happen give certain behaviors.

NO NO NO!

 

A boundary is how YOU will live YOUR LIFE.

 

It has NOTHING to do with your spouse.

 

It is YOU saying, 'I won't stay with ANY person who does ABC. If any person I am with does ABC, I am going to do XYZ to protect myself.'

 

And then DOING IT.

 

It is THEIR CHOICE to continue doing ABC, but they KNOW that if they do, YOU will do XYZ. And you DO it.

 

What are YOU going to do if she does ABC?

[beach]

NO NO NO!

 

A boundary is how YOU will live YOUR LIFE.

 

It has NOTHING to do with your spouse.

 

It is YOU saying, 'I won't stay with ANY person who does ABC. If any person I am with does ABC, I am going to do XYZ to protect myself.'

 

And then DOING IT.

 

It is THEIR CHOICE to continue doing ABC, but they KNOW that if they do, YOU will do XYZ. And you DO it.

 

What are YOU going to do if she does ABC?

 

If he's consistent he's going to do nothing.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Turnera, the term being discussed was "consequence"...

 

I told OMW if she never wanted to hear from me again I'd accept that. I never promised I never contact her again. I haven't heard anything from her..so I dunno where she stands.

 

I have an IC session tomorrow at noon. Do note that W and I have been to loads of MC sessions together...sheesh, countless it seems. I agree that she should start again, and her parents do too...she does too even...she wants to build up to it (her words not mine).

[ISurvived]

Turnera, the term being discussed was "consequence"...

 

I told OMW if she never wanted to hear from me again I'd accept that. I never promised I never contact her again. I haven't heard anything from her..so I dunno where she stands.

 

I have an IC session tomorrow at noon. Do note that W and I have been to loads of MC sessions together...sheesh, countless it seems. I agree that she should start again, and her parents do too...she does too even...she wants to build up to it (her words not mine).

 

Name one consequence from a boundary you have set.

 

Likely, even with the package, OM has thrown your WW under the bus. OMW probably has been gas lighted.

 

Build up to it? How do you build up to it? You either go or not. Quit being such a patsy, please!!

[whichwayisup]

she wants to build up to it (her words not mine).

 

What exactly does she mean by this? Ask her.

 

To me it seems she's avoiding, doesn't to go and is giving you a line to get you off her back about MC. She's either in or out.

[2sunny]

I don't think she's in. I think she's buying time to devise her long term plan to leave.

 

School (her future)

Her dads giving her money (her future)

The PO box so bank statements and letters can go there

She asked her OM if he set up the "other account" - bank or email or both?

 

Not wanting to fix what she's broken

Not doing MC

Not being nice to you and the family unit

Not respecting you and holding you in regard

Not willing to quit her MA

Only truth when it works in her favor (to get you to feel sorry for her)

 

Looks like she's setting herself up so she can leave when the child gets older.

 

She's not all in. Not by a long shot!

 

If I were you I'd start devising a plan too...one that protects you and your Daughter.

[Ninja'sHusband]

What exactly does she mean by this? Ask her.

 

To me it seems she's avoiding, doesn't to go and is giving you a line to get you off her back about MC. She's either in or out.

I know that she wants to do IC first, other than that...maybe she wants me to fix the M first...I dunno.

[2sunny]

I know that she wants to do IC first' date=' other than that...maybe she wants me to fix the M first...I dunno.[/quote']

 

It's not YOURS to fix. It's hers to fix! Yet she doesn't show her intent to fix it...that should tell you everything she won't say.

 

I see her working on HER.

 

She broke the vow.

 

The fact that SHE expects you to possibly fix what she broke shows your lack of a healthy boundary. You CAN change THAT.

 

When she gets the idea that she needs to make WAAAAY more effort than you - THAT is when your boundary will be clear and more balanced.

 

For now - DO nothing.

 

It's really HERS to DO!

[Trimmer]

Turnera' date=' the term being discussed was "consequence"...[/quote']

c'mon - are you avoiding the point here? Boundary and Consequence are intimately connected - two sides of a single coin.

 

Boundary without Consequence is called a "bluff".

Consequence without Boundary is called "bad communication"

 

They go together, so Turnera's explanation still applies. A Boundary is about how YOU will accept being treated, and a Consequence is what YOU will do as a result. Turnera's comments were right on target.

 

I agree that she should start again' date=' and her parents do too...she does too even...she wants to build up to it (her words not mine).[/quote']

Are you seeing the pattern that she will not take any action to fix herself or the marriage? That the very best she has offered you is her passive behavior, and then she spins it in a way that you desperately accept as a positive? "Build up to it?" My eyes hurt from rolling so far back in my head.

 

I know that she wants to do IC first' date=' other than that...maybe she wants me to fix the M first...I dunno.[/quote']

OK, so she wants to do IC first. Do you see that as a positive step, or do you see it for what it is: words that will placate you until, once again, she doesn't deliver by acting on it?

 

I know I sound sarcastic and dismissive, but I understand where you are and what you are doing. You feel like things are hanging by a thread, and you don't want to do anything that might tip the balance in the wrong direction, as if you hold the fate of the marriage in your hand and you might break it through some small insult or mis-step. And your daughter is in the middle of it all.

 

I did just that for 6 months while my wife "decided" what she wanted to do. I stayed weak, I accepted any little crumb she offered me, in any way that she needed to use me for her convenience during that time, and ultimately I see that things were already headed in the direction they ended up. I wish I had been more assertive, but sometimes you just have to learn it on the fly. I'm not going to beat you up about it.

 

And I don't pretend to be a fortune teller; I can't say you are headed down the exact same path I travelled. But I think that even you can see, if you get objective, that she's not taking any action to make things better, and her behaviors are consistent with someone who is avoiding the issues, and perhaps even stringing you along (with your help, as long as you remain compliant), either to maintain the very broken status quo, or just long enough for her to get her ducks together and leave.

 

It sure seems like if she had any vision of trying to to save your marriage, she would be doing something about it.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Of course I see that she is inactive and passive...I've said it many times.. In fact I was berating her about it last night for the millionth time.

 

Lets talk circles some more:

 

People keep saying she's had no consequences... What you actually mean is punishment or vengeance. Consequences can happen regardless of whether or not I impose them. IE the miscarriage. Was the miscarriage "bad communication" on my part? No. I had nothing to do with it, but it's definitely a consequence of her A. And it's not like I haven't imposed my own punishment on her either...(refer to link, earlier posts)

 

I may actually impose more punishment by telling more of her friends what happened if she continues to put herself in situations where OM could be there. I don't want her to have a support system for this crap. I'm debating whether I should do it now, or wait until I have proof that OM is at one of these events. I could be screaming about nothing if he has actually quit for good.

[turnera]

People keep saying she's had no consequences... What you actually mean is punishment or vengeance.

No, we are talking about the consequences that SHE will face if she does what YOU say you don't want to be part of. There's no vengeance involved - you are CALMLY and CLEARLY informing her what action YOU will take if she does ABC. Then she gets to choose. There's no vengeance in that - just logical repercussions.

 

It's like telling your 15 year old, if you sneak out of the house tonight, I'm cutting off your phone. The kid can choose to sneak out - you can't stop him. He knew AHEAD OF TIME what his consequence would be - losing his phone. If he sneaks out and you take his phone away, do you see that as punishment, or a consequence of HIS actions?

[2sunny]

I'd suggest you see a therapist to help you with this boundary problem YOU seem to be having issues with.

 

The real problem is - YOU don't have a clear understanding what a healhy boundary looks like. You also don't know what a consequence looks like either.

 

It has NOTHING to do with revenge or vengeance! Those are negative energy!

 

Boundaries and consequences are designed to help YOU get happy and stay happy - no matter what happens with her!

 

I don't think you have an idea what it is supposed to look like - and you won't take our suggestions at all - so just pay someone $200.00 an hour to tell you the same thing we are telling you for free.

 

When YOU start paying attention to what's best for you - that is when you might look at things differently.

 

 

With every action there is a reaction. Doing nothing is actually a reaction.

 

I suggest you do absolutely NOTHING until she starts doing the heavy lifting to repair the DAMAGE SHE CAUSED!

 

Stop allowing all her crap!

 

Stop allowing her to tell you to do the things she shood be doing!

 

Just stop talking and interacting with her!

 

She's a complete @itch who intended to ruin your life - and she expects you to go along with it all!

 

I'd say HELL NO!!!

 

You don't know what loving behavior looks like - because you are so used to her selfish ways that you wouldn't recognize nice and loving if it slapped you in the face.

 

Stop accepting her selfishness as ok!

 

Tell her to move! She can tell your daughter what's she's done to have to move- that would be a start at her getting honest!

 

Sop hiding what she's done. Tell EVERYONE!

 

If she didn't intend for anyone to know - then she shouldn't have done it!

 

Get honest and get real! No more covering up for HER bad behavior! THAT would be a consequence - all friends and family get to know EXACTLY what she's done! No more lyng for her. Omissions are lying too.

 

She can face what she's done.

 

You hiding her truth from others isn't helping you...it's actually hurting you.

[beach]

I don't think she's in. I think she's buying time to devise her long term plan to leave.

 

School (her future)

Her dads giving her money (her future)

The PO box so bank statements and letters can go there

She asked her OM if he set up the "other account" - bank or email or both?

 

Not wanting to fix what she's broken

Not doing MC

Not being nice to you and the family unit

Not respecting you and holding you in regard

Not willing to quit her MA

Only truth when it works in her favor (to get you to feel sorry for her)

 

Looks like she's setting herself up so she can leave when the child gets older.

 

She's not all in. Not by a long shot!

 

If I were you I'd start devising a plan too...one that protects you and your Daughter.

 

It's not YOURS to fix. It's hers to fix! Yet she doesn't show her intent to fix it...that should tell you everything she won't say.

 

I see her working on HER.

 

She broke the vow.

 

The fact that SHE expects you to possibly fix what she broke shows your lack of a healthy boundary. You CAN change THAT.

 

When she gets the idea that she needs to make WAAAAY more effort than you - THAT is when your boundary will be clear and more balanced.

 

For now - DO nothing.

 

It's really HERS to DO!

 

I'd suggest you see a therapist to help you with this boundary problem YOU seem to be having issues with.

 

The real problem is - YOU don't have a clear understanding what a healhy boundary looks like. You also don't know what a consequence looks like either.

 

It has NOTHING to do with revenge or vengeance! Those are negative energy!

 

Boundaries and consequences are designed to help YOU get happy and stay happy - no matter what happens with her!

 

I don't think you have an idea what it is supposed to look like - and you won't take our suggestions at all - so just pay someone $200.00 an hour to tell you the same thing we are telling you for free.

 

When YOU start paying attention to what's best for you - that is when you might look at things differently.

 

 

With every action there is a reaction. Doing nothing is actually a reaction.

 

I suggest you do absolutely NOTHING until she starts doing the heavy lifting to repair the DAMAGE SHE CAUSED!

 

Stop allowing all her crap!

 

Stop allowing her to tell you to do the things she shood be doing!

 

Just stop talking and interacting with her!

 

She's a complete @itch who intended to ruin your life - and she expects you to go along with it all!

 

I'd say HELL NO!!!

 

You don't know what loving behavior looks like - because you are so used to her selfish ways that you wouldn't recognize nice and loving if it slapped you in the face.

 

Stop accepting her selfishness as ok!

 

Tell her to move! She can tell your daughter what's she's done to have to move- that would be a start at her getting honest!

 

Sop hiding what she's done. Tell EVERYONE!

 

If she didn't intend for anyone to know - then she shouldn't have done it!

 

Get honest and get real! No more covering up for HER bad behavior! THAT would be a consequence - all friends and family get to know EXACTLY what she's done! No more lyng for her. Omissions are lying too.

 

She can face what she's done.

 

You hiding her truth from others isn't helping you...it's actually hurting you.

 

Since what you have been doing hasn't given you results from her that you want what can you change now to get a different result than you've had.

 

Remember, if you continue doing the same thing everything is guaranteed to stay the same.

 

What exactly do you plan to change to get hat different result you want?