Boundary setting question

[SandieBeach]

I'd suggest you see a therapist to help you with this boundary problem YOU seem to be having issues with.

 

Sop hiding what she's done. Tell EVERYONE!

 

If she didn't intend for anyone to know - then she shouldn't have done it!

 

Get honest and get real! No more covering up for HER bad behavior! THAT would be a consequence - all friends and family get to know EXACTLY what she's done! No more lyng for her. Omissions are lying too.

 

She can face what she's done.

 

You hiding her truth from others isn't helping you...it's actually hurting you.

 

I don't know that labeling a WS with a big, fat, red "A" for all the family members and neighbors is really the only way to force the consequences. My H had an affair, and I am pretty badly hurt by it, so I am not making excuses for a WS. I think it's important to have close friends or family for support, but not everyone needs to see your dirty laundry.

 

I would agree with you Sunny if the WS and BS did not intend to work on the marriage, and in that case, setting the record straight on who cheated might be the way to go. If, however, both want to work on their marriage, the affair does not need to be aired for everyone to see. I told my family about the affair b/c I didn't think I'd end up staying with him. While a part of me was glad to have that support, I understand that it placed a burden on my family members who now had to worry about me.

[Owl]

NH...might I suggest that you seek out and engage a marriage counselor...one with a strong positive track record for helping marriages recover from infidelity...and get THEIR guidance on what needs to happen in your situation to potentially save their marriage?

 

I was thinking at one point you were counseling with the Harleys...what was their recomendation on how to proceed?

 

If I'm wrong...give some serioius thought to getting an MC to guide you through this, even if you're going without the wife for now. However...I think you should INSIST that your wife attend MC with you as part of your REQUIREMENT for her to stay in your life and marriage. But...that might not be what you want to do.

[ISurvived]

Of course I see that she is inactive and passive...I've said it many times.. In fact I was berating her about it last night for the millionth time.

 

Lets talk circles some more:

 

People keep saying she's had no consequences... What you actually mean is punishment or vengeance. Consequences can happen regardless of whether or not I impose them. IE the miscarriage. Was the miscarriage "bad communication" on my part? No. I had nothing to do with it, but it's definitely a consequence of her A. And it's not like I haven't imposed my own punishment on her either...(refer to link, earlier posts)

 

I may actually impose more punishment by telling more of her friends what happened if she continues to put herself in situations where OM could be there. I don't want her to have a support system for this crap. I'm debating whether I should do it now, or wait until I have proof that OM is at one of these events. I could be screaming about nothing if he has actually quit for good.

 

I've never been known for being subtle, so I will warn you now, here comes a 2 x 4:

 

I would kindly ask you to go to your WW and ask for your balls back.

 

I read what you call consequences. Weak at best. When you demanded she quit the dojo and sport or you would D, she said no and you folded like lawn furniture in a tornado.

 

Dude, I want your M to work. I want your M to be healthy and loving. IT TAKES BOTH OF YOU INVOLVED!!

 

The miscarriage, as horrible and painful as it is, is not a consequence of the A. If it was going to happen, it would happen A or no A.

[The Blue Knight]

Of course I see that she is inactive and passive...I've said it many times.. In fact I was berating her about it last night for the millionth time.

 

Lets talk circles some more:

 

People keep saying she's had no consequences... What you actually mean is punishment or vengeance. Consequences can happen regardless of whether or not I impose them. IE the miscarriage. Was the miscarriage "bad communication" on my part? No. I had nothing to do with it, but it's definitely a consequence of her A. And it's not like I haven't imposed my own punishment on her either...(refer to link, earlier posts)

 

I may actually impose more punishment by telling more of her friends what happened if she continues to put herself in situations where OM could be there. I don't want her to have a support system for this crap. I'm debating whether I should do it now, or wait until I have proof that OM is at one of these events. I could be screaming about nothing if he has actually quit for good.

NH, you're doing fine working through it. You're never going to satisfy the entire peanut gallery looking in on your personal life. As you stated, you could be screaming at your wife about something and there may be no reason to do so. Work through it at the pace that works for you.

[Ninja'sHusband]

NH...might I suggest that you seek out and engage a marriage counselor...one with a strong positive track record for helping marriages recover from infidelity...and get THEIR guidance on what needs to happen in your situation to potentially save their marriage?

 

I was thinking at one point you were counseling with the Harleys...what was their recomendation on how to proceed?

 

If I'm wrong...give some serioius thought to getting an MC to guide you through this, even if you're going without the wife for now. However...I think you should INSIST that your wife attend MC with you as part of your REQUIREMENT for her to stay in your life and marriage. But...that might not be what you want to do.

I had one session with Steve Harley. I asked him if he thought I should tell the sensei. His response came before I had even taken a breath at the end of my sentence... He said something like, "Wooahhh you are trying to fix the A yourself, that is her job. The more you do her job, the more you will push her away."

That was a really big moment for me.

On the way to the therapist today (the one we'd been seeing before this thread) I was thinking about my recent anger...and it's just from lack of control over my W. Therapist agreed that me telling the rest of her MA friends would just be another move to try and gain control by force. Really that's all I've done so far I think. She stopped texting OM because there was no way she could hide it. I can see the records online, no way to delete them. She stays in the M because of our daughter and the fact that I can pay for her school, support her, and pay for her MA...

Therapist made the point that I might get what I want in the short term that way, but in the long term I'm gonna have to do things that build our connection, not destroy it. Otherwise, yeah, like a bad teen, she'll just wait until my guard is down and do her thing when she feels the need again...just like most of you have been warning.

 

I have been thinking about setting up another Harley session...it's just expensive...insurance doesn't cover it. The therapist I've been seeing is completely covered by my work's insurance. I pay 0$.

 

Turnera...you are still talking about punishment if not vengeance...which is a subset of consequences.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Since what you have been doing hasn't given you results from her that you want what can you change now to get a different result than you've had.

 

Remember, if you continue doing the same thing everything is guaranteed to stay the same.

 

What exactly do you plan to change to get hat different result you want?

Err, what I've been doing turned us around from the brink of divorce to a situation where I can attend classes with her and start to bond again that way. Intimacy has been restored, the rings are back on, she told me last night that she did love me, even if it was in the middle of a fight. The computer password is gone, the phone is unlocked. She has agreed to kill the POBox, she's getting rid of her Facebook altogether. She even knows that OMW knows and didn't get mad. She supported me asking one of the dojo members if OM had been to an event. etc, etc, etc.

 

It was the threats supported here that drove us to the brink of divorce. By beginning to ignore you guys, I've made significant repairs!

 

Granted we're not fixed yet...but the direction is the right one again...thank God.

 

 

On the other hand, listening to you guys on telling the OMW was the right thing to do for sure

Edited April 11, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[ISurvived]

It was the threats supported here that drove us to the brink of divorce.

 

No, it was your WW having an A that drove you to the brink of D.

[Try]

It was the threats supported here that drove us to the brink of divorce.

You have now officially bought into your wife’s blame shifting hook' date=' line, and sinker. It was her lack of remorse for the affair and her unwillingness to respect reasonable boundaries that pushed you the brink of divorce. Do not try to make believe that by backing down, you are somehow nobler than us. You have fundamentally changed the dynamics of your marriage such that the cheater is not to blame for the divorce, but you trying to reasonably protect your marriage is. Just because your wife has you drinking the Kool aid does not mean that we have to drink it.

By beginning to ignore you guys, I've made significant repairs!

No you have not. All you have done is rug sweep, which always produces short term gains at the price long term failure. If you read other threads on this forum where they tried to rub sweep, you will see what I am talking about. Your wife now knows that you will back down even when you are right and she is very wrong. She knows that all she has to do is be nice to you and all will be forgiven. Do you really think that this will not impact her actions going forward? I wish you the best of luck. Maybe your wife will never cheat again. Maybe you will beat the very long odds. You sound like a decent guy that is trying to deal with a bad situation not of your doing and that you were not prepared for. Be well. Edited April 11, 2012 by Try

[Ninja'sHusband]

It was her lack of remorse for the affair and her unwillingness to respect reasonable boundaries that pushed you the brink of divorce.

I agree with this part, and I don't completely regret the threats. I still waffle on whether it was necessary or not. I got to learn just how far W would take it...too far. I lost a lot of respect for her because of that. And now she knows too, she can't play the "I'm not putting the MA over the M" card anymore, I can so call BS on that one.

 

Again for me it's priorities, not accepting blame. DD first, as long as staying together is good for her, I'm staying...whatever you guys think the "right" example is on handling an A. There's so much more to being a family than that.

 

You sound like a decent guy that is trying to deal with a bad situation not of your doing and that you were not prepared for. Be well.

Thanks.

[turnera]

Turnera...you are still talking about punishment if not vengeance...which is a subset of consequences.

If you say to her if you see OM again, I'm going to file for separation because I won't share my wife, and she sees him anyway, and you DO file for separation...you think that is punishment? In what way?

[turnera]

So since you have no intention of ever leaving your wife, so that you can stay with your daughter, your real problem is figuring out how to accept whatever your wife does.

 

Will you leave her when your daughter goes away to college?

[despicableME]

So I guess you're settling on co-habitation, for now.

[beach]

Pain is a very good motivator. But since you're not willing to see your wife in pain I highly doubt she will get motivated to do her part in this.

 

She knows you're going to stay pretty much no matter what. She has no big reason to change. She really does have you by your balls yet you allow it, so you can no longer blame her AT ALL. At this point you have had choices too, yet you choose to be in the position you're in from your choices.

 

Yes, you will be capable of still saying you're married. At this point I fail to see how that is a win for you. You have settled. Settled for a partner that shows no respect or regard for you as her husband. There's nothing honorable about your union any longer. The marriage you once knew doesn't exist anymore. You are now signed up for a life of betrayal by not changing things.

 

I wish you well.

[Lois]

I agree with this part, and I don't completely regret the threats. I still waffle on whether it was necessary or not. I got to learn just how far W would take it...too far. I lost a lot of respect for her because of that. And now she knows too, she can't play the "I'm not putting the MA over the M" card anymore, I can so call BS on that one.

 

Again for me it's priorities, not accepting blame. DD first, as long as staying together is good for her, I'm staying...whatever you guys think the "right" example is on handling an A. There's so much more to being a family than that.

 

Thanks.

 

Is it good for her to live this? Really? I believe children would rather come from a broken home than live in one, and sir, despite your admirable efforts, until your wife extracts her head from her bottom, shakes off her enormous sense of entitlement and does whatever it takes to get the marriage back on track, your home is broken.

 

I wish you well.

[2sunny]

For what it's worth - I don't agree with you berating your wife. You have both now lowered the bar to treating each other terribly.

 

Not surprising, though, given the state of things.

 

What was good is long gone - the trust.

 

And since she isn't doing everything to earn it back then you can expect more of this negative hatred to fill up the space between you two.

[ISurvived]

For what it's worth - I don't agree with you berating your wife. You have both now lowered the bar to treating each other terribly.

 

Not surprising, though, given the state of things.

 

What was good is long gone - the trust.

 

And since she isn't doing everything to earn it back then you can expect more of this negative hatred to fill up the space between you two.

 

I agree. No need to berate. Just need healthy boundaries. No more being a doormat.

 

NH, you never answered my question from a few posts ago. You said a child needs two parents. I agree as long as it is a healthy marriage. I asked if it is important enough to disregard physical and emotional abuse as well as staying drunk. What say you?

[Ninja'sHusband]

 

Will you leave her when your daughter goes away to college?

This has been running through my head constantly the last few days...with an answer of yes...I just might leave. It's hard to predict my mindset 10 years from now though, if we even make it that far. Yeah I'm willing to settle for now for my daughter's sake. I don't believe our home is so broken that it is harming her. Some family's might not be able to keep their issues from overtaking the entire mood of the house but we generally get along around our daughter and have a good time. I need to setup another counseling session for her actually. I want to probe a little deeper there to see how she is really doing. 1st session said she was fine. No pictures of mommy and daddy unhappy or apart. No bad descriptions, etc.

 

If we are in the same state as we are now in 10 years...yeah I'll probably jet. It's one thing to stick around for my daughter while she's still in the house, nurturing her everyday, but it feels insane to stick around just for the sake of saving some money later on and making family events (where everyone is grown up) more comfortable. If we manage to regrow love and trust during those 10 years I'll stay. I think it's possible...but am not sure after what I've seen. I'm pretty disgusted with a lot of things.

[turnera]

So...now that she knows you won't leave, and you're gonna be her sugardaddy, and she can hook up with whomever she wants, will you still stay when she starts telling you to watch your daughter while she goes out with other men? Or brings them home? After all, you're giving her permission.

 

Just sayin'.

[Ninja'sHusband]

So...now that she knows you won't leave, and you're gonna be her sugardaddy, and she can hook up with whomever she wants, will you still stay when she starts telling you to watch your daughter while she goes out with other men? Or brings them home? After all, you're giving her permission.

 

Just sayin'.

If she starts another A, that's a whole different ball game of course.

[ISurvived]

If she starts another A' date=' that's a whole different ball game of course.[/quote']

 

How so? Can you explain?

[HappyAtLast]

Now that you have stated that you may leave when your daughter is grown, I will chime in.

 

I lived your life. My then wife cheated early in our marriage, my boys were small. I could not, would not forgive her, but stayed until my boys had left home. This was some 40 odd years ago, so times were very different. Fathers did not get joint custody and the stigma of being from a broken home was quite difficult for children.

 

I did, however, inform my wife that I would be leaving her when the kids were older. She, in turn, needed to do whatever it was she needed to do, while we were still married to be able to support herself once I left. She had plenty of time to do so. She also was required to get a full-time job once the boys were in school all day. The gravy train was over.

 

That said, I do not regret staying. Our home was not hostile at all. While I cannot stay I still loved my then wife, our home life was pleasant. My boys have grown up to be fine men, with long term marriages and children of their own.

 

My choice is not the right choice for everyone, but that is my story, for whatever it is worth to you.

 

P.S. In the spirit of full-disclosure, six month prior to my youngest son leaving for college, I allowed myself to fall in love with another woman. Not making excuses for my choice, I own it. I had denied myself love or companionship for many years and I was not going to pass up this chance, so close my my leave date. I like to disclose that, because even though I was a BS, I did, in fact, become somewhat of a WS prior to leaving my marriage.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Now that you have stated that you may leave when your daughter is grown, I will chime in.

 

I lived your life. My then wife cheated early in our marriage, my boys were small. I could not, would not forgive her, but stayed until my boys had left home. This was some 40 odd years ago, so times were very different. Fathers did not get joint custody and the stigma of being from a broken home was quite difficult for children.

 

I did, however, inform my wife that I would be leaving her when the kids were older. She, in turn, needed to do whatever it was she needed to do, while we were still married to be able to support herself once I left. She had plenty of time to do so. She also was required to get a full-time job once the boys were in school all day. The gravy train was over.

 

That said, I do not regret staying. Our home was not hostile at all. While I cannot stay I still loved my then wife, our home life was pleasant. My boys have grown up to be fine men, with long term marriages and children of their own.

 

My choice is not the right choice for everyone, but that is my story, for whatever it is worth to you.

 

P.S. In the spirit of full-disclosure, six month prior to my youngest son leaving for college, I allowed myself to fall in love with another woman. Not making excuses for my choice, I own it. I had denied myself love or companionship for many years and I was not going to pass up this chance, so close my my leave date. I like to disclose that, because even though I was a BS, I did, in fact, become somewhat of a WS prior to leaving my marriage.

 

Thanks for that. I've resolved to not tell her my thoughts about that. I don't want to doom us by making a prediction that may or may not be true. She's working her tail off to become financially independent anyway. She started her masters program just this week. But that's interesting to hear from someone who actually did what I'm musing about constantly every minute of my life right now. I'll be 46 when my daughter is 19...which depresses me a bit. I just could never forgive myself if I didn't give this every ounce of energy I have to do the right thing for my little girl. We are both so important in her life...how could I reduce either of our time with her by 50% and deny her seeing her parents together? My parents Ded when I was 5, I handled it ok but I'm so jealous of what our daughter has...it's a million times better than what I had as a kid. She is so happy.

[HappyAtLast]

I absolutely do not regret staying for my kids. I would do it all over again. However, had our home life become adversarial or unpleasant, I like to think I would have left. (highdsight, you know).

 

I did fully disclose my intentions to my wife early on. Mainly because I was certain that, for me, there was no reconciliation possible. In your case that is different. I can honestly say that, for the remaining duration of our marriage, I did not care if she bedded all of the Dallas Cowboys, provided that she lived up to her responsibilities of being a caring mother and a productive employee.

[Try]

If she starts another A' date=' that's a whole different ball game of course.[/quote'] Saying that that would be "a whole different ball game" leaves you a whole lot of wiggle room not to leave her does it not? The answer should have been a clear statement that if she crosses the line and has an affair again, the marriage is over. You did not say that because it is not for sure true and you know it. More importantly your wife knows this too.

[Try]

She started her masters program just this week.

Should there not be some consequence for her cheating? Perhaps you not being just her meal ticket that supports her going back to school would be a basic one. She has already shown you that she was willing to give up going back to school in order to leave you for her MA. It was not that important to her then. Have her get a job instead.