Boundary setting question

[Ninja'sHusband]

Should there not be some consequence for her cheating? Perhaps you not being just her meal ticket that supports her going back to school would be a basic one. She has already shown you that she was willing to give up going back to school in order to leave you for her MA. It was not that important to her then. Have her get a job instead.

I should just add this link to my sig:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/314134-boundary-setting-question-31.html#post3930220

[Try]

I can honestly say that, for the remaining duration of our marriage, I did not care if she bedded all of the Dallas Cowboys, provided that she lived up to her responsibilities of being a caring mother and a productive employee.

Ninja, is that the life you want? You are not there yet, but this is where you are heading.

[Try]

I should just add this link to my sig:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/314134-boundary-setting-question-31.html#post3930220

 

I read your link the first time. Sorry but, those are extremely weak consequences for what she did. Extremely weak. That is why no one takes your link seriously. In fact the very act of you having to do those things stated in the link was more of a consequence to you then they were to her.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Ninja, is that the life you want? You are not there yet, but this is where you are heading.

No I wouldn't go that far.

 

btw just yesterday my therapist was telling me how she didn't think my W would ever betray me that way again, that the consequences had been so horrible for her. She's said similar things before.

 

Therapist has seen a lot of my W in IC and MC...but then again when I discovered the truth...that it had been a 4 month A...she was completely shocked. Can't believe she didn't warn about trickle truth or suspect anything. Seems so obvious. Yeah my W has lied to the therapist quite a bit. Therapist says she could not play parent the way I have..that my focus on my daughter is very admirable, and that it's ok when I screw up, that I'm trying to climb mount Everest....

[Ninja'sHusband]

I read your link the first time. Sorry but, those are extremely weak consequences for what she did. Extremely weak. That is why no one takes your link seriously. In fact the very act of you having to do those things stated in the link was more of a consequence to you then they were to her.

Ok, then why ask the same question again? Same question, same answer.

 

You weren't there when she got the call confirming the miscarriage...I've known my W 18 years. Never had seen her in that much pain before. She was completely frantic, I held her on the stairs as she wept uncontrollably. Even through my anger and resentment it was heartbreaking. There's little I could that's worse than that (that's legal anyway). You can dismiss the rest, whatever. I actually prefer natural consequences to those I inflict as punishment. If I inflict punishment it should also have a good purpose, like warning OMW, protecting myself by keeping my eyes open, etc. Punishment for punishment's sake is not what I'm after...that's also called vengeance. Punishment and vengeance will only push what I'm after away from me more.

 

Sorry to deny you guys vicarious vengeance and punishment, I just don't think it's the right thing to do and won't get me what I want right now. It's been proven already, I tried it.

[whichwayisup]

No I wouldn't go that far.

 

btw just yesterday my therapist was telling me how she didn't think my W would ever betray me that way again, that the consequences had been so horrible for her. She's said similar things before.

 

Therapist has seen a lot of my W in IC and MC...but then again when I discovered the truth...that it had been a 4 month A...she was completely shocked. Can't believe she didn't warn about trickle truth or suspect anything. Seems so obvious. Yeah my W has lied to the therapist quite a bit. Therapist says she could not play parent the way I have..that my focus on my daughter is very admirable, and that it's ok when I screw up, that I'm trying to climb mount Everest....

 

This doesn't make sense. Your T doesn't think your wife will betray you again, yet how can she know this? Forget consquences..Your wifes consquenes were circumstancial - Not consquences for her by you. She still gets to do what she wants, when she wants. And, she's LIED to the T, so how can she be trustworthy? How can the T flip back and forth so much on this? Makes no sense to me.

 

Your wife may not betray you by starting another affair, but she could very well start the A with the OM again..Or try to just keep intouch so it keeps feelings and ego's fed and alive.

[whichwayisup]

Punishment for punishment's sake is not what I'm after...that's also called vengeance.

 

See, this is your good heart and nice guy side of you that is taking over. Your wife hurt you in the worst way possible. She betrayed your faith and trust, went against her vows. She put you and the family unit at risk by cheating. HER consquence for doing that should be 1)NO MORE MA and she must find another place to do this. Who cares if it's further away. Or the sensai isn't the same or as good as the one she has now. 2)MC and IC is a complete MUST. 3)Make efforts to meet you half way. Put you first, not herself first.

 

She's not done any of that. Those are boundries you could have done, put your foot down. That's not mean..It's common sense after a WS cheated.

 

Her miscarriage, her pain - She brought that on herself by her choices. Yes, those were consquences of her choices and actions - By nature.. Those haven't been enough to 'change' her to become a better wife, a better mom, a better family member. She STILL puts her needs first because she hasn't suffered any consquences that affect her within the family unit.

[Ninja'sHusband]

This doesn't make sense. Your T doesn't think your wife will betray you again, yet how can she know this? Forget consquences..Your wifes consquenes were circumstancial - Not consquences for her by you. She still gets to do what she wants, when she wants. And, she's LIED to the T, so how can she be trustworthy? How can the T flip back and forth so much on this? Makes no sense to me.

 

Your wife may not betray you by starting another affair, but she could very well start the A with the OM again..Or try to just keep intouch so it keeps feelings and ego's fed and alive.

This would be near impossible for her to pull off without me discovering it. I'm attending class, events, monitoring phone, email, etc. It would be easier to have an A with some young dude at her new school (masters program).

 

Read the link, there were punishments in there inflicted by me. Most of those I wish I hadn't done. The natural consequences are better teachers than anything imho. She's not trustworthy, that's why I keep my eyes open. Ugh....this is so tiring...you guys just want to poke holes in everything I say. You forget what I said 2 posts ago. I didn't come here to be picked apart. I posted some blog type stuff, I should just make a real blog for when I don't really care about comments I guess.

 

The only question I asked barely got any attention, which was asking about a follow up phone call with OMW. In therapy we kinda agreed it wouldn't serve a lot of purpose. Either it would just go badly, or she'd say OM was staying away for now but might return and that they were fighting, or just maybe I'd get the answer I want, which is that he has quit for good.

[whichwayisup]

which was asking about a follow up phone call with OMW.

 

I did answer that.. Said if you want to, do it. Leave a message that you'd like to touch base and if she wants to talk to you to call you back.

 

I'm not pickin apart your posts, just trying to show you what others usually do with setting boundries and consquences..

[drifter777]

Therapist has seen a lot of my W in IC and MC...but then again when I discovered the truth...that it had been a 4 month A...she was completely shocked. Can't believe she didn't warn about trickle truth or suspect anything. Seems so obvious. Yeah my W has lied to the therapist quite a bit. Therapist says she could not play parent the way I have..that my focus on my daughter is very admirable, and that it's ok when I screw up, that I'm trying to climb mount Everest....

 

You are saying that your wife's IC is also the MC for the two of you? I don't think it's illegal, but I don't see any way a therapist's judgement and counsel would not be affected by seeing a client in these different settings.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure why you continue posting when you seem to have decided the path you are going to take. As for those of us following your thread, it's kind of like a car wreck in slow motion - it's hard not to watch no matter how ugly it is.

[ISurvived]

This would be near impossible for her to pull off without me discovering it. I'm attending class, events, monitoring phone, email, etc. It would be easier to have an A with some young dude at her new school (masters program).

 

Read the link, there were punishments in there inflicted by me. Most of those I wish I hadn't done. The natural consequences are better teachers than anything imho. She's not trustworthy, that's why I keep my eyes open. Ugh....this is so tiring...you guys just want to poke holes in everything I say. You forget what I said 2 posts ago. I didn't come here to be picked apart. I posted some blog type stuff, I should just make a real blog for when I don't really care about comments I guess.

 

The only question I asked barely got any attention, which was asking about a follow up phone call with OMW. In therapy we kinda agreed it wouldn't serve a lot of purpose. Either it would just go badly, or she'd say OM was staying away for now but might return and that they were fighting, or just maybe I'd get the answer I want, which is that he has quit for good.

 

NH, I am really pulling for you dude. I want you to have a healthy marriage. I fought for my marriage too. The difference is to truly R, you WW has to be part of the R. That's the only way it works. Any MC worth their license will tell you that.

[whichwayisup]

NH, I am really pulling for you dude. I want you to have a healthy marriage. I fought for my marriage too. The difference is to truly R, you WW has to be part of the R. That's the only way it works. Any MC worth their license will tell you that.

 

This is it exactly. And as long as your wife refuses to do MC, refuses to put you first more often, refuses to give more than take, refuses to put MORE effort into saving the marriage, things aren't really going to get much better. It'll be up and down, up and down..On her terms, all the time.

[Ninja'sHusband]

You are saying that your wife's IC is also the MC for the two of you? I don't think it's illegal, but I don't see any way a therapist's judgement and counsel would not be affected by seeing a client in these different settings.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure why you continue posting when you seem to have decided the path you are going to take. As for those of us following your thread, it's kind of like a car wreck in slow motion - it's hard not to watch no matter how ugly it is.

I had a good friend tell me that they had it better when they had separate people for IC. I can see the value in that...and I definitely have complaints against our T. I think she's too soft and pliable. I can push her whatever direction I want, and so can my W. Sometimes it's hard to figure out just what she really thinks. I think she wants us to own our ideas, so she tries to lead us to them rather than hand them to us...risking us rejecting them.

 

I much preferred the very direct no-nonsense approach Steve Harley had...its just so expensive =\

 

Anyway, finding someone who works for you is good, but I think there's pluses and minuses to both ways.

 

Having the same T means my T knows everything, she knows my W's stuff, maybe even things W hasn't told me. Too bad W wasn't honest even in IC

Also I don't want to be accused of just finding a T that agrees with me instead of really looking for answers. My sister totally did that with her D. She went through a million therapists and they all told her she had serious problems...she just couldn't face it. My W is worried I'll do the same thing, so I stick with the T we started with, for that and because of the $$.

 

Maybe I should go hunt a new person down for IC afterall. I could see another one that suites me better and takes the insurance we have..it'd be starting over though...and they'd be missing my W's point of view. That's what stops me from putting out the effort. MY current T isn't the greatest, but I don't think she's horrible either.

[Try]

This would be near impossible for her to pull off without me discovering it. I'm attending class' date=' events, monitoring phone, email, etc. It would be easier to have an A with some young dude at her new school (masters program).[/quote'] Are you willing to do this for the next 10 years? Is that really a marraige? And yes, my guess is that if she cheats again it will be in school with you footing the bill. About consequences. Consequences are not about revenge any more than having a child sit in a corner is about revenge. Consequences are to serve as a deterrent. If the consequences for her cheating are not directly and intentionally tied to you as her husband, or if the consequences are too weak, they will not act as a deterrent from you that she needs to take seriously. The miscarriage was not directly or intentionally tied to the cheating, because the child could have been yours, and because it happened for purely medical reasons. The other consequences are too week to really matter and imposed more consequences on you than on her. Bottom line, there were no serious consequences from you for her cheating on you. No serious consequences means no deterrent. The odds of your wife cheating on you again will be based in part on the answers to the following questions. Does your wife believe that if she cheats on you again that you will leave her for sure? Does she place her marriage to you as being important enough to her that she will even care if you left her? The answer to the will you leave her for sure if she cheats question is no, she does not believe that you will leave her for sure. The answer to the will she even care if you left her question is we do not really know, because you did not go through with it so she never had the reality of it wake her up like cold water in the face.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Try

[turnera]

Sorry to deny you guys vicarious vengeance and punishment' date='[/quote']Oh please.

 

Good luck, NH. You're gonna need it.

[Ninja'sHusband]

The miscarriage was directly tied to the A. She was trying to muddy the water when she F-ed me a couple days later. We had been using protection...that night she had me completely splooge in her. I found it odd, cause, well, we had been trying for a kid a several months before that, then she got all hypervigilant about protection for a while (I think because of the A) then suddenly one night, LETS GET PREGNANT! Then...uhh...she let me forget about it until the night she broke the news that she was pregnant possibly with another man's child. I had blown the whole thing off, and couldn't even remember the night at first because we had tried for a while to get pregnant without success. I didn't think anything would come of it.

 

Anyway the point is, whether it was my child or not, it happened because of the A. That's no way to have a child, even if it is yours .

You are right we could have had a miscarriage when we were trying to get pregnant...but I dunno. Her age might have something to do with (and probably did) but I wonder how much it was affected by the stress of having to reveal an A to her hubby + the possible dilemma of how to deal with an illegitimate child between two Ms. Stress in the mother is *not* a good thing for an unborn child, especially that early on.

 

And again, if she was still in an A..yeah I would bring out the big guns right now...but the fact is she is in NC...kinda by luck =\ but it's still NC. If that changes, things are going to degrade. If she doesn't take action...yeah I may have to deliver some form of punishment, like exposing the A to dojo members. And I will do that if I feel it's necessary. I believe in exposure pretty strongly now. It's worked well so far. See my consequences link above for a list of people I've told so far, I haven't regretted any of it. Smearing her reputation is not exactly a light punishment. She's pretty hurt at the chasm that has opened up between her and SIL over this. Her mom REALLY thinks she's going to hell now...wow. What happened 7 years ago with that other dojo was pretty minor compared to this, but when word got around she was completely ostracized from that circle. It was pretty harsh.

[Ninja'sHusband]

If she cheated again...yeah it would be over. I don't think I could even be civil to her anymore. Would just be too much insult and injury.

 

I thought through the two big possibilities:

1) A. during school

2) A. at new job after school

 

If 1 happens, wow what a stupid whore she would be....doing that while I support her on the tails of the last one. I'd file right away, we'd have in house separation until she finished school. I couldn't dump her right away for 2 reasons She'd probably be a suicidal mess again, and I NEED her to be able to support herself. Her parents live thousands of miles away, across the country so I can't just send her home...that would mean either DD wouldn't get to see Mommy, or not get to see me. Not good. I'm not moving near the ILs...there's no good work for me down there...and WW doesn't want to do that anyway, she's said so. After school we'd split and she can live on alimony until she gets a job. That last bit of time together during school would be awful and unhealthy probably...but necessary. I still don't mind paying for school, she sacrificed 9 years raising our DD. If she did a 180 on me and tried to get back...I'd have to refuse cause that would mean her quitting school, going NC, then starting another school...which I'm not going to pay for after wasting money on the first school. Screw that, we'd be done.

 

If 2 happens, well, she'd already be making money, so we'd just split. Game Over...simple. If she tried to do a 180 here...she'd need to quit her job...and if she turned into the female playboy version of Jesus I might take her back...it would take a lot (was that kinda sacrilege?) I think in that scenario DD would be at *least* 12 yrs old. She'd probably be a lot keener on what was going on.

[Try]

The miscarriage was directly tied to the A. She was trying to muddy the water when she F-ed me a couple days later. We had been using protection...that night she had me completely splooge in her. I found it odd' date=' cause, well, we had been trying for a kid a several months before that, then she got all hypervigilant about protection for a while (I think because of the A) then suddenly one night, LETS GET PREGNANT![/quote'] So your wife was "hyervigilant about protection" with you during the affair but was not "hyervigilant about protection" with the other man. Then after muddying the waters she decided to tell you anyway, once she decided that she wanted the OM to have parental rights to the child. Wow, your wife is one of the most evil cheaters that I have ever read about on this forum. Her loyalty to the OM over you is complete. The OM's loyalty to his wife over your wife is the only reason that your wife is not seeing him right now. You are not a factor at all in your wife's decision process.

[Try]

If 1 happens' date=' wow what a stupid whore she would be....doing that while I support her on the tails of the last one. I'd file right away, we'd have in house separation until she finished school. I couldn't dump her right away for 2 reasons She'd probably be a suicidal mess again, and I NEED her to be able to support herself.[/quote'] Your wife does not need a masters degree to support herself. Most people do just fine without one. You are only using it as an excuse to rationalize why you would not leave her right away if she cheated again. At this point you are prepared to support her for at least two years even while she f--ks other men. Worse yet is that your wife now knows this. Since your current shrink is clearly not doing a good job for you and since you will not listen to anyone on this board, do you know anyone that you trust that you can talk to about this? I really think that you are a decent person that is so deep in the cheated on fog that you are not thinking straight anymore.

[Ninja'sHusband]

So your wife was "hyervigilant about protection" with you during the affair but was not "hyervigilant about protection" with the other man. Then after muddying the waters she decided to tell you anyway, once she decided that she wanted the OM to have parental rights to the child. Wow, your wife is one of the most evil cheaters that I have ever read about on this forum. Her loyalty to the OM over you is complete. The OM's loyalty to his wife over your wife is the only reason that your wife is not seeing him right now. You are not a factor at all in your wife's decision process.

Yeah, unfortunately that's the way it went down . Of course she never said she told me for OMs sake, but that's easy enough to deduce. She only told me when she got pregnant, and tried to minimize it to one night...just enough truth to allow OM in as father. Recently she tried to give herself credit for coming to me and telling me about the A, and I told her what I just said here...she had nothing to say in response. Sad thing is I even had to drag "who" out of her. She wouldn't even give me his name at first.

 

She claims they used protection the other times...but I called her on that saying it didn't make sense. What about the first time? Does a MM carry around condoms in his pocket? I seriously doubt it, unless it was completely planned. I sure don't carry a condom in my pocket, unless I'm going to a hotel with my W...without DD. Then she changed it saying they had in fact started to go all the way once and didn't because of the lack of protection. He was better prepared the next time. I dunno, it could and likely is all bull****... Who knows? I read in the "Women's infidelity" book that a cheating women is way less likely to use protection with her AP than with her BH. Also they pretty much planned the A, I found that out from the OM in an email where he related how it all started. They both told each other they were open to a new relationship when they were on a plane coming back from a conference. The whole damn thing was planned, premeditated....my W confirmed this. That last bit of trickle truth was when I demanded she quit the MA....I was walking around campus (work) screaming FU FU FU You quit now or I'm not coming home. Of course I had to come home... I think that's the night I opened a new bank account too...that poor bank lady. I was in really bad shape... She couldn't get the debit card stuff to setup properly, so we just sat the chatting about music as a way to distract me from my impending D. Turned out she was also a music major in school...It's scary how fast you can bond with someone like that that you don't even know. She was married...had been for like 20 years...super nice...I never went back to pick up the card, they eventually sent it in the mail. It's sitting in my wallet unused. The account has 100$ in it...just sitting there keeping it open. (btw I stayed at work late tonight to catch up....my work ethic is still so terrible right now)

 

 

How's the slow motion car wreck looking? Fascinating?

 

I must be seriously F-ed up to still be posting...I just bumped into a coworker in the halls, someone I don't even talk to that much. Told him the whole story. He was astounded.... His wife pulled some crap on him too, after only 2 years. They split the kids 50/50, he was proud that he got that. I talked about unremorseful women, justified actions, me becoming sexist. He just nodded his head in agreement. I got checked for STDs btw, I'm all clear. The guy who took my blood pressure(it was a physical too) lost his W to an A. Seems like every guy I open up to has gone through this (2 other guys I work with come to mind). Everyone just looks on me with pity, gives me knowing looks. It Fing amazing. I used to not identify with other men very well at all, not being a very macho type, not liking sports or cars....I was more comfortable around women. A lot of the time my friends in school were girls...now I just think they are all sneaky scheming dishonest psychos. Either they fall for the bad boys and then complain when they get screwed over or they actually go for the nice ones and then ruin their lives with betrayal. ARG!!! Spark where are you? Restore my faith in the opposite sex, I'm always so impressed with your posts =\

Edited April 13, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[despicableME]

I rarely post on your thread(once I believe), but it just irks me how your wife is putting so much emphasis on this MA thing... I mean seriously! Her f'ing family is falling apart, and she still won't give it up. Even just in the interim... while things recover... while she regains your trust back... while you guys try to reconnect. I just don't get it???

[ISurvived]

Yeah, unfortunately that's the way it went down . Of course she never said she told me for OMs sake, but that's easy enough to deduce. She only told me when she got pregnant, and tried to minimize it to one night...just enough truth to allow OM in as father. Recently she tried to give herself credit for coming to me and telling me about the A, and I told her what I just said here...she had nothing to say in response. Sad thing is I even had to drag "who" out of her. She wouldn't even give me his name at first.

 

She claims they used protection the other times...but I called her on that saying it didn't make sense. What about the first time? Does a MM carry around condoms in his pocket? I seriously doubt it, unless it was completely planned. I sure don't carry a condom in my pocket, unless I'm going to a hotel with my W...without DD. Then she changed it saying they had in fact started to go all the way once and didn't because of the lack of protection. He was better prepared the next time. I dunno, it could and likely is all bull****... Who knows? I read in the "Women's infidelity" book that a cheating women is way less likely to use protection with her AP than with her BH. Also they pretty much planned the A, I found that out from the OM in an email where he related how it all started. They both told each other they were open to a new relationship when they were on a plane coming back from a conference. The whole damn thing was planned, premeditated....my W confirmed this. That last bit of trickle truth was when I demanded she quit the MA....I was walking around campus (work) screaming FU FU FU You quit now or I'm not coming home. Of course I had to come home... I think that's the night I opened a new bank account too...that poor bank lady. I was in really bad shape... She couldn't get the debit card stuff to setup properly, so we just sat the chatting about music as a way to distract me from my impending D. Turned out she was also a music major in school...It's scary how fast you can bond with someone like that that you don't even know. She was married...had been for like 20 years...super nice...I never went back to pick up the card, they eventually sent it in the mail. It's sitting in my wallet unused. The account has 100$ in it...just sitting there keeping it open. (btw I stayed at work late tonight to catch up....my work ethic is still so terrible right now)

 

 

How's the slow motion car wreck looking? Fascinating?

 

I must be seriously F-ed up to still be posting...I just bumped into a coworker in the halls, someone I don't even talk to that much. Told him the whole story. He was astounded.... His wife pulled some crap on him too, after only 2 years. They split the kids 50/50, he was proud that he got that. I talked about unremorseful women, justified actions, me becoming sexist. He just nodded his head in agreement. I got checked for STDs btw, I'm all clear. The guy who took my blood pressure(it was a physical too) lost his W to an A. Seems like every guy I open up to has gone through this (2 other guys I work with come to mind). Everyone just looks on me with pity, gives me knowing looks. It Fing amazing. I used to not identify with other men very well at all, not being a very macho type, not liking sports or cars....I was more comfortable around women. A lot of the time my friends in school were girls...now I just think they are all sneaky scheming dishonest psychos. Either they fall for the bad boys and then complain when they get screwed over or they actually go for the nice ones and then ruin their lives with betrayal. ARG!!! Spark where are you? Restore my faith in the opposite sex, I'm always so impressed with your posts =\

 

Sorry you are struggling so. I really am.

 

Maybe you are still posting because down deep you know most of the advice you are getting is correct. Infidelity is just one big s**t sandwich.

 

One thing that would be funny if it weren't so sad is her reason for finally being honest with you. She had to tell you. Kinda hard to hide a pregnancy.

 

Not all women are sneaky, scheming, dishonest psychos. I'll even go as far to say your WW isn't when her head isn't up her butt. You seem like a decent guy and you wouldn't have married her if she was this way.

 

Something way down deep inside of her told her it was OK to screw another guy whiled being married. Fundamental flaw in her. Until she goes to IC, does some heavy lifting to figure out why she thought this way, she will not heal, nor will your marriage.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I gotta stop coming here, just got home from work, trying to make up lost time.

 

 

Almost killed myself driving aggressively on the roads...I've already been through so much anger. Hearing you guys restate over and over what I've realized ages ago is not good for me. You are angry with my WW, I've been massively angry at her too, this is just pulling it back up for me. There's no way I'm going to be able to "climb Mt Everest" like this (as my T put it).

 

Somehow I think I'm gonna have to quit cold turkey. It's gonna be hard, I've developed such a bad habit... I'm not really getting anything but anger here, towards WW and towards some of the posters, most dangerous is the anger towards WW..I'm scared to go in the bedroom with her right now in my current state...could start a 3:30 AM fight. I thought I was done with the anger =\ I can't control her...it's impossible. breathe......

[Bellechica]

Breathe ninja's husband.....and be careful. The fact that you are least trying to work things out provides me a glimmer of hope although I'm scared to death of confessing my own sh*t.

[2sunny]

That anger is because you are actually mad at you. Mad because you could/ should be doing more but you won't consider doing that.

 

Your W is gonna do what's she's gonna do - what YOU do determine the changes YOU CAN control.

 

Since your wife hasn't dug deep - deep into her soul - to change the woman who cheated - she can expect to cheat again, yes.

 

You can only change you, your choices DO affect yourself and others.

 

You DO have choices = YOU have only ruled out most of YOUR options based on what your W is or isn't doing.

 

That is a mind that's too closed. So this is as good as its gonna get until she cheats again. She's not willing. And you're not willing to recognize her unwillingness to change will keep the M in the position that gives her leeway to cheat again.

 

I wish you'd open your mind to the possiblities. I with you'd stop allowing her to rule your life.

 

I wish you'd stop betraying yourself. That is the part that's hardest for me to watch.

 

And no - not ALL women are like her. She gives women's bad name. NONE of MY family and friends are like that!

 

Stop assigning that meaning to women. Work on that in counseling too.

 

I'm an honorable woman who will not cheat. My moral compass isn't broken. I honor myself and others.

 

Stop thinking most women are like your wife. Each person is unique.

 

Look at who she is by her actions - not her words.

 

We can't help you any further. You made up your mind. Nothing to help with except to tell you to find a way to get rid of your anger so you can be happy.

 

But that would require having a healthy boundary. You haven't gotten that yet. When you do, you'll know it, because it won't feel like you're compromising your integrity when you have it.

 

Good luck man, you seem to have all your answers. No need to help when you have made up your mind.

 

And most women aren't like your wife. Don't think that.

 

Work on you becoming happy all on your own. It's a good life - you deserve to be happy! Don't allow YOUR happiness to be dependent on what she is or isn't doing. That's where things CAN change. That's where you can get rid of your anger.

 

You have much work to do.