Boundary setting question

[Steen719]

I think your fear is making you angry. You are afraid of doing something to make that fine line that is holding together your marriage break apart. You are trying to do what you think will keep that line intact and stronger, but you know it is tenuous at best and it makes you angry that you are the one who is trying to keep that line in one piece. Just my humble opinion. Good luck to you.

[whichwayisup]

Sorry to see you go. I think you need this place more than you realize, and that anger you're feeling is because you know deep down what's what, but you're too afraid to act and do what is necessary (has to happen) and that is stand up to your wife once and for all, lay it out for her (Like what DM said, NO MORE MA for a while.. and for her to focus on fixing the marriage, putting you and the family first above her own needs..hello, there's more to life than hobbies and fun - FAMILY is it!) but you're holding back to really laying down the law as a consquence. No more MA and marriage counselling a MUST. (I also think finding a more neutral person for MC is what you need, the one you have now isn't very good and isn't helping much. Sorry..)

 

Anyway, I do hope you change your mind and continue posting here. All of us do care and are just trying to get you to see different sides of this, different ways on how to proceed..

[2sunny]

When your happiness is NO LONGER based on what SHE is or isn't doing - THAT is when you know you have a healthy boundary!

 

Since you have put YOUR happiness completely at the mercy of her - you are set up to be disappointed by your LACK of boundary.

 

Expectations are what trip us up every time.

 

As long as you expect her to cheat again - you won't be disappointed or angry. You can't MAKE her be faithful to you. Even IF she is - she still loves her OM - so you really don't have her anyway. It's an illusion.

 

Take care of YOU. THAT is what you CAN change!

[drifter777]

Maybe I should go hunt a new person down for IC afterall. I could see another one that suites me better and takes the insurance we have..it'd be starting over though...and they'd be missing my W's point of view. That's what stops me from putting out the effort. MY current T isn't the greatest, but I don't think she's horrible either.

 

Please understand that many counselors would consider this a good thing. In IC, you are their client and they will work with you to address your own personal recovery. Your reconciliation is really secondary to your emotional health.

 

Totally understand that you are obsessed with this thread right now. Maybe it's because it is the only place where people are focused on you and your current issues. Although we care and offer advice, we are not a substitute for IC.

[Ninja'sHusband]

The anger right now comes from my lack of control over her. The more I get in and try to fix things, the more angry I get. When I stepped back during the period she was intent on D...the anger dried up. I had let go. I read a book on anger...my biggest triggers are:

 

1) being ignored

2) rejection

3) control

4) blame

 

in roughly that order.

 

 

Totally understand that you are obsessed with this thread right now. Maybe it's because it is the only place where people are focused on you and your current issues. Although we care and offer advice, we are not a substitute for IC.

Yeah, this is probably 100% true....it's like all day care...even though it's random people kinda quality care. I can sit here and vent all day long...and eventually get fired. Gotta stop gotta stop... I appreciate all the attention though, it's kinda amazing. I liked the vibe over on SI better tbh...but they have so many new threads coming in so fast you tend to fall off the radar quicker. Here the thread just seemed to live on forever I have another like 1 page thread with the same starting post over there, got some good responses.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[Try]

Somehow I think I'm gonna have to quit cold turkey. It's gonna be hard' date=' I've developed such a bad habit... I'm not really getting anything but anger here, towards WW and towards some of the posters, most dangerous is the anger towards WW..I'm scared to go in the bedroom with her right now in my current state...could start a 3:30 AM fight. I thought I was done with the anger =\ I can't control her...it's impossible. breathe......[/quote'] You do not get comfort coming here. Nobody does. People come for a sanity check and to have other people to share their anger with. We may not agree with your current strategy (this is only your first strategy, it will change, this is normal) but we do feel your pain. If you need a break, take one. Come back every time you need to vent and give us an update. You are a good person and you are not to blame for the sh_t that you must now deal with. Bad people look at good people as weak people that can be taken advantage of because they care enough to do the right thing; bad people feel a false sense of superiority because of this. The truth is you are the superior person and there is someone out there for you that will look at your goodness and thank God every day that they were able to find you. If you want to wait for your child to grow older to find that person so be it, but knowing that such a person exists for you, should help you keep your sanity. Good luck and God bless.

[turnera]

That anger is because you are actually mad at you.

Does it make sense to you that we are angry FOR you? That YOU are the one here asking for help, and we WANT to help you, but nothing is progressing (because you won't take our advice), so we are upset. Not AT you, FOR you.

 

Thing is, we're experts. We've seen it all. We've been advising for years. We know what works and what doesn't, and staying for the kids and not enacting consequences doesn't. Women HAVE to respect their men; it's basic psychology and you won't find 5 women who will stay with a man they don't respect (and not cheat on him).

 

What we want for you is to understand that, get a clear plan, and FOLLOW that plan. If your plan is to stay til the kids are gone, then stay. But if your wife's not willing to remain monogamous, move into another bedroom, for goodness' sake, and just stay there to raise your kids! Don't delude yourself that she will EVER wake up and look at you and say 'what did I do, please forgive me' if you won't take the hard steps. She just won't. To get THAT, she needs to see you stand up to her, act like a man, and be willing to leave her if she won't love you back.

 

I get that you want people here to make you feel better. But that's not what we're here for. We're here to give advice that WORKS. If you don't want to hear it, there's nothing we can do about it. I hope you don't leave, but I hope you come to understand where we're coming from, too.

[turnera]

The anger right now comes from my lack of control over her.

NH, you never HAD control over her. And she never had control over you. Not before you were engaged, not before you got married - she didn't HAVE to show up at the wedding, not after you were married.

 

All a marriage is is an AGREEMENT between two people to stay together and keep working on a joint purpose. An agreement that is mutually beneficial. Once it no longer becomes beneficial, one person leaves (or cheats).

 

Once you get over that control thing, you'll realize you never could make her do what you want. That's how to get peace in your life. No matter what she does.

[Ninja'sHusband]

You do not get comfort coming here. Nobody does. People come for a sanity check and to have other people to share their anger with. We may not agree with your current strategy (this is only your first strategy, it will change, this is normal) but we do feel your pain. If you need a break, take one. Come back every time you need to vent and give us an update. You are a good person and you are not to blame for the sh_t that you must now deal with. Bad people look at good people as weak people that can be taken advantage of because they care enough to do the right thing; bad people feel a false sense of superiority because of this. The truth is you are the superior person and there is someone out there for you that will look at your goodness and thank God every day that they were able to find you. If you want to wait for your child to grow older to find that person so be it, but knowing that such a person exists for you, should help you keep your sanity. Good luck and God bless.

 

thanks, I haven't cried much lately, but this brought tears to my eyes. Damn glass wall in my office...hope people don't notice...

[Ninja'sHusband]

Does it make sense to you that we are angry FOR you? That YOU are the one here asking for help, and we WANT to help you, but nothing is progressing (because you won't take our advice), so we are upset. Not AT you, FOR you.

Yeeah I understand

But if your wife's not willing to remain monogamous, move into another bedroom, for goodness' sake, and just stay there to raise your kids!

If she cheats again, yeah I'll do inhouse separation until W finishes school. Then its over.

 

Don't delude yourself that she will EVER wake up and look at you and say 'what did I do, please forgive me' if you won't take the hard steps. She just won't. To get THAT, she needs to see you stand up to her, act like a man, and be willing to leave her if she won't love you back.

She did do that. She told me she had been a horror of a W, that she was horrified at what she saw in herself. She finally did give me some very thorough and sincere apologies. It's her actions that are the problem (as many have already stated)

 

I get that you want people here to make you feel better. But that's not what we're here for. We're here to give advice that WORKS. If you don't want to hear it, there's nothing we can do about it. I hope you don't leave, but I hope you come to understand where we're coming from, too.

My T tries to make me feel better, and tries to lead me to answers. I dunno, sometimes I get validation here, which is nice. Why I'm here...obsession...that's all it is.

[Ninja'sHusband]

(this is only your first strategy.

 

Strategies I've used:

1) Have them alternate days (she did this for a while)

2) Demand she quit or I D

3) Offer to join classes (rejected)

4) Let her go, deal with it

5) Go to classes with her (accepted)

 

Possibly next:

6) Tell her friends if OM shows up to put more pressure for NC

[Ninja'sHusband]

Hello Dear,

good day,am Deborah Wali,a humble beautiful nice looking girl,

who love to see something new,i saw your profile today and it was nice

to me,please permit me to know you more,here is my private Email

([email protected])please do reply me as to send you my pics,

and tell you more about myself,please dear do remember my Email,

([email protected])with love and kisses,

yours lovely

Deborah,

lol, just what I need an RA! Now how on earth does this spam help anyone?

[Steen719]

Strategies I've used:

1) Have them alternate days (she did this for a while)

2) Demand she quit or I D

3) Offer to join classes (rejected)

4) Let her go, deal with it

5) Go to classes with her (accepted)

 

Possibly next:

6) Tell her friends if OM shows up to put more pressure for NC

Does this mean she does not want you to join the classes? I hope not. It is a perfect way for the two of you to share something together.

 

In a way, I have become obsessed with reading here, also. Some days, it makes me feel really sad, like I do sometimes in the divorce support group. So many people are hurting and it's hard to see it. So many deny what is in front of them and so many of us have been there and hate to see someone do this, too.

 

Some days, it gives me strength when I see the posts of others who move on and find happiness, like Sunny and others. I see what they have experienced and liken it to my situation and see that I will eventually be happy again. In the divorce support, there are also people moving forward and those times make me happy for them. I guess I am moving forward, also, but it is inching along, so it is hard to tell. Anyway, I should be working now...grading papers and instead I am here. I guess that tells you what kind of day I am having! So, I better start doing what I am supposed to be doing.

 

Oh, and I don't think using her friends to do that is a good idea. In the first place, it is not their responsibility or place to do it and the real crux of this is that SHE SHOULD BE MAKING THAT HAPPEN...SHE, NOT YOU, NOT HER PARENTS, NOT HER FRIENDS, BUT HER. SHE SHOULD MOVE HEAVEN AND EARTH IF SHE FEELS AS BAD AS SHE SAYS SHE DOES AND KEEP YOU NEAR AND DEAR.

[Steen719]

lol' date=' just what I need an RA! Now how on earth does this spam help anyone?[/quote']

 

Can you be humble and call yourself beautiful? LOL:lmao:

[Ninja'sHusband]

Does this mean she does not want you to join the classes? I hope not. It is a perfect way for the two of you to share something together.

 

In a way, I have become obsessed with reading here, also. Some days, it makes me feel really sad, like I do sometimes in the divorce support group. So many people are hurting and it's hard to see it. So many deny what is in front of them and so many of us have been there and hate to see someone do this, too.

 

Some days, it gives me strength when I see the posts of others who move on and find happiness, like Sunny and others. I see what they have experienced and liken it to my situation and see that I will eventually be happy again. In the divorce support, there are also people moving forward and those times make me happy for them. I guess I am moving forward, also, but it is inching along, so it is hard to tell. Anyway, I should be working now...grading papers and instead I am here. I guess that tells you what kind of day I am having! So, I better start doing what I am supposed to be doing.

 

Oh, and I don't think using her friends to do that is a good idea. In the first place, it is not their responsibility or place to do it and the real crux of this is that SHE SHOULD BE MAKING THAT HAPPEN...SHE, NOT YOU, NOT HER PARENTS, NOT HER FRIENDS, BUT HER. SHE SHOULD MOVE HEAVEN AND EARTH IF SHE FEELS AS BAD AS SHE SAYS SHE DOES AND KEEP YOU NEAR AND DEAR.

 

Good points, and that's why I haven't done it so far.

 

She flip flopped around. When she first told me she was prego, she told me I was welcome at class. Then when I wanted to come "monitor" them together at a class one day, she completely flipped out. Barely allowed me to go, but we did it. She was so scared I was gonna attack a man...who is trained in MA and carries a sword...yeaaahhhh.....

 

Then after my ultimatum failed I finally cracked and offered to join classes, she didn't like it. Didn't want to be spied on, controlled, etc.

 

Then recently she had a meltdown, realized there was no stopping my spying ways. Her mother told her the only way I'd be happy is if I went to everything. I don't want to be a jailor though anymore than she wants to be jailed. So I said I'd join classes instead, I'd be resentful at first but we could eventually bond through the MA. She finally agreed. I started last week, OM wasn't there. Tonight will be my 2nd night in class.

[Bellechica]

NH, I just want you to know that your thread makes me cry as much as my own. I hope your wife hugs you if that's what you want.

[Ninja'sHusband]

NH, I just want you to know that your thread makes me cry as much as my own. I hope your wife hugs you if that's what you want.

Thanks Bell. She does.

 

There was a time when she couldn't even touch me, there's been times when I didn't want to touch her...

 

We act more like a normal couple now-a-days...until she runs off to some event. Then things get bad for a day or two. She won't take responsibility for NC.

 

If you want to heal with your BH the most important things:

1) Whole Truth from you

2) No Contact

3) Be transparent, let him know where you are, see all messages, etc. If OM contacts you, tell BH.

4) Reassure your H, be remorseful, apologize a lot, legitimize his pain, show him love, be together, tolerate his rollercoaster

5) Figure out why you did it, but don't shift the blame while you soul search.

6) Work on the M. Find out what your H's top needs are. Fulfull your H's top needs, make your top needs clear.

 

Therapy is good too.

[Lois]

NH, your wife will stop your "spying ways" simply because you will become exhausted from all of the constant crap she's putting you through. You can't keep it up for ever ... and she knows it.

 

Please take care of yourself because she won't.

[Ninja'sHusband]

NH, your wife will stop your "spying ways" simply because you will become exhausted from all of the constant crap she's putting you through. You can't keep it up for ever ... and she knows it.

 

Please take care of yourself because she won't.

True enough, and I hope I do stop. Hopefully all the suspicion starts to die. To me that'll be sign I'm starting to trust again. Actually, I'm checking her phone and email less frequently already(not a bad thing...I'd been checking way more than makes sense). But yeah, I'll probably have times when I sanity check...forever.... When I found that FB conversation that proved it had been a 4 month thing, I had already ramped down my spying. I had a sudden impulse that night and hit paydirt.

[The Blue Knight]

True enough' date=' and I hope I do stop. Hopefully all the suspicion starts to die. To me that'll be sign I'm starting to trust again. Actually, I'm checking her phone and email less frequently already(not a bad thing...I'd been checking way more than makes sense). But yeah, I'll probably have times when I sanity check...forever.... When I found that FB conversation that proved it had been a 4 month thing, I had already ramped down my spying. I had a sudden impulse that night and hit paydirt.[/quote']

You do get to a point where you start to settle back in as you see your spouse begin to re-assume a normal life at home again. That's normal and I think it's probably good.

 

Serial cheaters can cheat and not give themselves up, and then carry on like the marriage is completely normal, (this is men more than women I believe) but those who are otherwise not the "affair type" suddenly enter into affairs and end up wearing their affair on their sleeve so to speak, so you know somethings not quite right, even when you can't figure out what the problem is.

[Bellechica]

NH, thanks for your post. Is your W on this forum? Btw I do kickboxing with a personal trainer three days a week, and it's one of the few times each week that I feel sane.

I think you should train at the same dojo as your wife.

I hope you all have a great weekend.

[Ninja'sHusband]

NH, thanks for your post. Is your W on this forum? Btw I do kickboxing with a personal trainer three days a week, and it's one of the few times each week that I feel sane.

I think you should train at the same dojo as your wife.

I hope you all have a great weekend.

No she's not. I haven't shown the forums to her. I really don't want her reading this thread =\

 

I just got back from my second class, same class as my W. I'm the only newbie there, so I'm basically getting private lessons from one of the senior students.

 

When class broke, I realized the OM was there, hadn't seen him come in. He must've shown up late. Guess he's got no respect for his BS either. He pretty much said so though.

 

Here's his actual words(snippet) from an email when I tried to get him to tell OMW before I did:

 

I am not sure how it would ensure that I am no longer in contact with (NH's WW), if anything I would imagine that there would be a brief flurry of additional contact, if like you my wife found the need to contact(NH's WW). If you are implying that because my wife new about the relationship she would somehow keep a better watch over me or control my behavior, that would not necessarily happen either. Although I would hope that the issues that would come about by my wife finding out about (NH's WW) and I could be healed, it could possibly lead to a separation between the two of us.

So there you have it, total jackass who claims to care for his family but really doesn't give enough of a **** to do the right thing.

 

 

They really deserve each other...I should drop my WW off at his house with a big bow on her.

 

 

I just sent an email to the guy I picked out to be my legal counsel...took me a long time to decide who should be mediator vs counsel...and by the time I had decided, D was off the table. Right now I'm wondering...it makes me so angry to be in the same room as those two, doing their thing like their families mean nothing to them. Just disgusting and evil.

 

 

Want some other goods from the OM?

 

Here's some hysterical lines:

When (NHs WW)and I started this relationship we agreed that we did not want to hurt either of our spouses or children, and therefore did not want them to find out about the relationship since it would more than likely hurt them.

Oh how considerate of you! You sure love your kids don't you

 

 

I would respectfully ask that you not contact her. (OMW)

Like how you respectfully stayed away from my W? And continue to stay away from her even after all the hell we've been through? Yeaaahhhhhh you really deserve...........exactly what you got, and then some.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Ninja'sHusband

[ISurvived]

No she's not. I haven't shown the forums to her. I really don't want her reading this thread =\

 

I just got back from my second class, same class as my W. I'm the only newbie there, so I'm basically getting private lessons from one of the senior students.

 

When class broke, I realized the OM was there, hadn't seen him come in. He must've shown up late. Guess he's got no respect for his BS either. He pretty much said so though.

 

Here's his actual words(snippet) from an email when I tried to get him to tell OMW before I did:

 

 

So there you have it, total jackass who claims to care for his family but really doesn't give enough of a **** to do the right thing.

 

 

They really deserve each other...I should drop my WW off at his house with a big bow on her.

 

 

I just sent an email to the guy I picked out to be my legal counsel...took me a long time to decide who should be mediator vs counsel...and by the time I had decided, D was off the table. Right now I'm wondering...it makes me so angry to be in the same room as those two, doing their thing like their families mean nothing to them. Just disgusting and evil.

 

 

Want some other goods from the OM?

 

Here's some hysterical lines:

 

Oh how considerate of you! You sure love your kids don't you

 

 

 

Like how you respectfully stayed away from my W? And continue to stay away from her even after all the hell we've been through? Yeaaahhhhhh you really deserve...........exactly what you got, and then some.

 

Wow!! Sorry you had to deal with that POS showing up NH.

 

It's obvious he has no respect for you, or his BW. Sadly, it's also obvious your WW has no respect for you either. Otherwise she would put her sport on hold until after you guys R and then she could find a different dojo.

 

Time for her to fish or cut bait NH. She has been on the sidelines long enough while you do all the heavy lifting to try to save your marriage. She either needs to be all in or have the common decency to pack her stuff and leave.

 

You and your daughter deserve much, much better.

[SomedayDig]

NH...I totally understand your feelings with the email the OM sent to you. When I confronted my W's AP on the phone, the first thing he literally begged was for me not to tell his BW because of his family. I said, "Well, m-f'er, I have a family too. So, you have a choice: You tell her or she gets the email I just sent. The choice is yours". Well, according to a friend, his BW had to confront him.

Leave the dojo. And tell her that particular dojo is off-limits to her. I live in a fairly small town area and there are at least 3 dojo's/dojangs that someone could choose from. This "dancing" with the OM and your WW is pretty bad, man. Get yourself AND her outta there.

[Ninja'sHusband]

NH...I totally understand your feelings with the email the OM sent to you. When I confronted my W's AP on the phone, the first thing he literally begged was for me not to tell his BW because of his family. I said, "Well, m-f'er, I have a family too. So, you have a choice: You tell her or she gets the email I just sent. The choice is yours". Well, according to a friend, his BW had to confront him.

Leave the dojo. And tell her that particular dojo is off-limits to her. I live in a fairly small town area and there are at least 3 dojo's/dojangs that someone could choose from. This "dancing" with the OM and your WW is pretty bad, man. Get yourself AND her outta there.

This thread is huge so some repetition is unavoidable Basically this MA is a less common one. If you search in the area, this dojo" is really the only one you find...and even then the info on the web about it is incorrect. The actual art is 100% non-interactive. You stand in a line and perform the moves. The sister MA is interactive and more common. OM does that as well, but in a different dojo. Probably cause there's one closer to his house...while with the one I just joined, there's nothing close to him.

 

Still, I'm waiting for a response from the lawyer. I'll go to class next week as well. I want to see what OM does now that he knows I'm attending...

 

We are rent house shopping right now...so if I want to D\Separate...I gotta be fairly quick in my decision. It's gonna screw us financially, I dunno, it's just hard to live like this, being ok one day and then being so pissed the next because she's running around constantly with no regard to whether OM is there or not. Her whole "I AM in NC!" just went down the drain. Luck ran out.