Boundary setting question

[2sunny]

Tell her to get out - since she's the one who single handedly ruined the M and isn't willing to do anything about it being ruined.

 

Offer to go with her tomorrow to rent HER a new place. Tell her she's got 3 days to be moved out completely.

 

Then change the locks on the house,

 

You need actions that make your word believable - because right now she doesn't believe you!

[LifesontheUp]

Hi NH,

 

I cannot understand how you can still put up with a wife who is so selfish and will not put you and her family first over the MA. I don't care what others say, it really is just a sport.

 

Sometimes in life, you have to make sacrifices for your family, and its obvious your wife is still thinking selfishly. I take my hat off to you NH, I wouldn't be willing to put up with that at all. You are going through hell and she just will not do this thing to help make amends. It really does speak volumes about your wife.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Hi NH,

 

I cannot understand how you can still put up with a wife who is so selfish and will not put you and her family first over the MA. I don't care what others say, it really is just a sport.

 

Sometimes in life, you have to make sacrifices for your family, and its obvious your wife is still thinking selfishly. I take my hat off to you NH, I wouldn't be willing to put up with that at all. You are going through hell and she just will not do this thing to help make amends. It really does speak volumes about your wife.

It's driving me crazy. My therapist says the same thing you are saying, minus the detractions about my W (prob would be unprofessional) She basically says she couldn't handle what I'm going through either and that anyone would back me up on my demands. She also compliments me on my resolve my dedication to my daughter, but worries about me stuffing down the anger and resentment.

 

Things have gotten a lot better between us mood wise, we're acting a lot more like the old days...except I'm still suffering my own private hell. Mind movies when we ****, and extreme anger thinking about OM being there in class, even if I'm there too. She's being super considerate in every other way right now, trying to be super wife. It's funny how things can change so drastically. I think she's afraid. I sent her an email repeating points I've made before:

 

I can train and bond with you through (MA), but it will not be sustainable if (OM) is there. I will not be able to heal. Things are not ok even if I seem that way. For this to heal you need to have no contact with him for life.

I know she read it, no direct response other than her pulling the "super wife" act. It's like, "here have some sugar with your cyanide".

 

Looks like I might have a session with Harley on Wed morning, working out schedule with them. No response from lawyer guy yet.

[turnera]

Sometimes the Harleys will suggest that you look into moving, if there is something in your area that you just can't get out of. Maybe find some other place that has the same kind of MA program. Your marriage is worth it, if you can swing it.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Sometimes the Harleys will suggest that you look into moving, if there is something in your area that you just can't get out of. Maybe find some other place that has the same kind of MA program. Your marriage is worth it, if you can swing it.

This has been on my mind as a possible solution. There's complications of course...but yeah.

 

Also I think I should restate why this is so important to my WW.

 

1) She has multiple awards at a national level, including 1st place for her division a couple years ago.

2) Her sensei wants her to compete in Japan.

3) She's a 2nd degree black belt

4) All her friends are there.

 

Anyway, not justifying her, just trying to represent her POV. She says she would never make me give up music...and I say I haven't recorded anything since November =\ I do play piano and guitar a lot though, just noodling around. Sometimes my improvisations can get kinda dark

[beach]

"Suffering in your own private hell" is your big indicator that YOU are allowing HER to cause YOU harm.

 

It's your barometer that YOU are betraying YOURSELF.

 

There's no way to have a loving marriage under those conditions.

 

Now you do have more evidence that your wife will feed you poison while smiling at you and saying "it's ok dear."

 

You are sleeping with the devil and that's why you feel so terrible. Yet you continue going along with it.

 

All that pretending just means you are both good liars. Lying to yourselves that this could work. It's not working.

 

When the horse is dead it's best to get off the horse, yet you keep kicking the dead horse expecting it to get up.

[Wanderer25]

She says she would never make me give up music...

 

 

How cruel. The day you will realize will come soon .Sometimes you cannot protect people from themselves.

[ISurvived]

This has been on my mind as a possible solution. There's complications of course...but yeah.

 

Also I think I should restate why this is so important to my WW.

 

1) She has multiple awards at a national level, including 1st place for her division a couple years ago.

2) Her sensei wants her to compete in Japan.

3) She's a 2nd degree black belt

4) All her friends are there.

 

Anyway, not justifying her, just trying to represent her POV. She says she would never make me give up music...and I say I haven't recorded anything since November =\ I do play piano and guitar a lot though, just noodling around. Sometimes my improvisations can get kinda dark

 

Why don't you ask your WW if she would take 6 months off to work on your marriage? Can't hurt.

[beach]

This has been on my mind as a possible solution. There's complications of course...but yeah.

 

Also I think I should restate why this is so important to my WW.

 

1) She has multiple awards at a national level, including 1st place for her division a couple years ago.

2) Her sensei wants her to compete in Japan.

3) She's a 2nd degree black belt

4) All her friends are there.

 

Anyway, not justifying her, just trying to represent her POV. She says she would never make me give up music...and I say I haven't recorded anything since November =\ I do play piano and guitar a lot though, just noodling around. Sometimes my improvisations can get kinda dark

 

And your wife lost ALL those choices as HER priorities when she spread her legs for her man that attends the classes. She consciously CHOSE risking all that.

 

Yet she still thinks she is above it all. She expects to keep her priorities which are her hobby and her OM and YOU are standing in her way.

 

Since she is a cake eater, she can't have both without further harm.

 

Time to start looking out for YOU and your daughter.

 

Your W has made her choice perfectly clear with her actions.

[beach]

Let's pretend for a minute (you are used to that).

 

IF you cheated with a music buddy OW we would all be telling you absolutely no more music with that OW. It's no different.

 

I don't care if it was the last place on earth. She has no right being there if she INTENDS to fix the M.

 

Since she intends to go she is showing you with her actions that she doesn't intend to fix things with you.

 

Stop paying her way. She's now on her own.

 

Let her find out that it's hard to support herself. She ruined her previous life.

 

Time for new beginnings. She's on her own.

 

Take care of YOU and your daughter.

 

No more betraying yourself. And no more pretending (lying to yourself) that's it's all ok.

 

It's not ok. She's mean and she does it on purpose. It gets her what SHE wants.

[Owl]

This has been on my mind as a possible solution. There's complications of course...but yeah.

 

Also I think I should restate why this is so important to my WW.

 

1) She has multiple awards at a national level, including 1st place for her division a couple years ago.

2) Her sensei wants her to compete in Japan.

3) She's a 2nd degree black belt

4) All her friends are there.

 

Anyway, not justifying her, just trying to represent her POV. She says she would never make me give up music...and I say I haven't recorded anything since November =\ I do play piano and guitar a lot though, just noodling around. Sometimes my improvisations can get kinda dark

 

Remind her that as a 2nd Dan, she'd do well to benefit from expanding her knowledge of the arts into other branches, rather than remain focused solely on her own.

 

Given both her affair and her current level...perhaps this is an indication that it's TIME for her to move onto a new art?

[Artie Lang]

She's being super considerate in every other way right now, trying to be super wife.

 

i beg to differ. she's still putting herself before her marriage, her husband, and her family. selfish.....selfish.....slefish. i can't understand how you downplay her current behavior. seems like you're in a bit of a fog yourself.

[Artie Lang]

^she not only had her cake and ate it, but got to lick from the bowl.

[Ninja'sHusband]

i beg to differ. she's still putting herself before her marriage, her husband, and her family. selfish.....selfish.....slefish. i can't understand how you downplay her current behavior. seems like you're in a bit of a fog yourself.

Selective vision much? You bold the part you want and then take it out of context?

 

She's being super considerate in every other way right now, trying to be super wife.

 

How about:

 

She's being super considerate in every other way right now, trying to be super wife.

 

 

Yeah she's being selfish, haven't you seen me say that enough? This is why I get sick of everyone trying to negate every word I say. Same thing for Belle (even though I completely disagree with her not telling). Someone makes a comment about her exAP, she responds, and then she gets blasted for focusing on him...really? As for my situation...we are in violent agreement about what my W is doing. Selfish selfish selfish..yes. She's putting the MA over the M, yes, I've said it like 100 times already. The instant I say anything else about her (there are positive things about her you know, she's NOT evil incarnate), we'll be back right here with you telling me I'm in denial. It's so either black or white with you guys.

 

So as for what my W is doing and if it's right or wrong, I don't think a single person here disagrees; it's ****ed up, wrong, and selfish. You don't need to keep repeating it to me or tell me I'm in denial. I AGREE WITH YOU! I'm this ' close to telling all her friends including sensei what happened.... It will probably destroy her MA career and make her severely angry with me. The question then will be if she stays or goes. If she goes, it's all on her. She couldn't take the heat for what she did AND broke up the family. If she stays...well...there's still trust issues...and we'll see if the family can still function if she's so pissed at me. If not I leave then. Those are some current thoughts. Harley session is Wed morning, lawyer apt. is Thursday afternoon. MA class is Friday. We'll see how this week plays out.

[Artie Lang]

the thing is Ninja, she's not considerate given that she's still doing whatever she wants.

 

what you're doing is trying to look for any good she does, whatever it may be, in order to convince yourself to stay.

 

her selfish behavior outweighs any positives. you said it yourself, refering to the "sugar with your cyanide" remark.

 

you know how you can tell the difference. look at the many ways you're trying to make it work- staying for your child, joining the class yourself, going out of your way to appease her. yet the one thing she can do to make this work is take a break from the sport so you guys can rebuild the marriage. has she done that? NO!

 

she can't even do that. obviously she loves this sport more than you; more than her marriage; and more than her family(including her child). how can you call her considerate when she neglects these things, first and foremost-- UNBELIEVABLE!

Edited April 16, 2012 by Artie Lang

[SandieBeach]

See how it plays out?

I don't see how it's going to play out any differently than last week.

 

I think that while it's helpful to get advice from people on this board and see what others went through, we each have to learn from our own mistakes for it to be a learning experience. I notice how many on LS will berate a person for not doing exactly what the advice-giver(s) did. I read all of NH's posts, and while I wouldn't do everything he did, he should do everything his gut tells him before proceeding with D, or kicking his W out of the house.

 

Even though the act of cheating is something we can all relate to, everyone's situation is different. I told my family about my H's cheating, and now I wish I hadn't. It's never too late to give up on someone, so if or when NH is ready to move on, he will do so with no regret.

[Ninja'sHusband]

the thing is Ninja, she's not considerate given that she's still doing whatever she wants.

 

what you're doing is trying to look for any good she does, whatever it may be, in order to convince yourself to stay.

 

her selfish behavior outweighs any positives. you said it yourself, refering to the "sugar with your cyanide" remark.

 

you know how you can tell the difference. look at the many ways you're trying to make it work- staying for your child, joining the class yourself, going out of your way to appease her. yet the one thing she can do to make this work is take a break from the sport so you guys can rebuild the marriage. has she done that? NO!

 

she can't even do that. obviously she loves this sport more than you; more than her marriage; and more than her family(including her child). how can you call her considerate when she neglects these things, first and foremost-- UNBELIEVABLE!

Amen brother! Preach on! I'm singing along! What are we arguing about?

 

I think you still didn't read my sentence...that said "in every other

way". It seems you won't be happy until I pronounce that my W is inconsiderate in every way conceivable...which is not true. Was she inconsiderate when she cooked dinner after a full day at the University? Was she inconsiderate when she cleaned all the bathrooms this weekend, did the grocery shopping? Spent enjoyable time with the family?

[Owl]

Amen brother! Preach on! I'm singing along! What are we arguing about?

 

I think you still didn't read my sentence...that said "in every other

way". It seems you won't be happy until I pronounce that my W is inconsiderate in every way conceivable...which is not true. Was she inconsiderate when she cooked dinner after a full day at the University? Was she inconsiderate when she cleaned all the bathrooms this weekend, did the grocery shopping? Spent enjoyable time with the family?

 

Does her being considerate in all of those other ways somehow negate the way she's still being inconsiderate to you in regards to everything else?

 

You can choose to look at it either way I guess.

 

From my perspective...she is SUPPOSED to be considerate in all of those ways you've described...AS WELL as being considerate to you in all the other ways, given that she's your wife.

 

You are setting your expectations lower than anyone would reasonably expect...and that's why you're getting that pointed out to you, just not in so many words (until now).

 

The question remains...is it important to you that she no longer see OM, that she stop putting her MA HOBBY (and that's what it is, unless she's making money at it) ahead of her marriage AND her family (and that IS what she's doing), and that she no longer shows you any of the respect, love, or admiration that a spouse should show?

 

Or are the other ways that she IS being considerate enough for you to base a marriage off of?

[Ninja'sHusband]

See how it plays out?

Are you doing something different? I don't see how it's going to play out any differently than last week.

Harley's advice, lawyer's advice. If OM is there or not on Friday.

 

Or maybe the cash I'm spending on the two is a waste of money...bummer.

 

Saturday depending on what decisions I've made, I may spam dojo people with the truth.

 

Sandie, the only person on my side of the family who knows is my father. The only reason I told him was because he had actually come to me earlier warning W might have an A. I had to tell him that he was right. I don't ever intend to tell my mother or sister if we R. They might have guessed already...but I'm worried about the impact on my W's and their relationship. My counselor advices against telling them for the same reason. Most articles I read advise against telling your own family (well the Harley HNHN book recommends some serious exposure for an ongoing A, but this isn't ongoing) The point is your own family can make R hard if they don't forgive your WS when you do, which is what you are probably experiencing.

 

Oh, and my parents D'ed when I was 5, so my Dad won't tell my Mom.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Does her being considerate in all of those other ways somehow negate the way she's still being inconsiderate to you in regards to everything else?

 

You can choose to look at it either way I guess.

Not imo, no. It's not black and white like that.

 

You are setting your expectations lower than anyone would reasonably expect...and that's why you're getting that pointed out to you, just not in so many words (until now).

My expectation is that she have NC for life with OM (see my email I sent her in an earlier post) I've told her this countless times, threatened D, exposed the A more and more..

 

The question remains...is it important to you that she no longer see OM, that she stop putting her MA HOBBY (and that's what it is, unless she's making money at it) ahead of her marriage AND her family (and that IS what she's doing), and that she no longer shows you any of the respect, love, or admiration that a spouse should show?

 

Or are the other ways that she IS being considerate enough for you to base a marriage off of?

Of course it's important! Why would I be paying Harley for his advice on Wed? Why am I paying more money for a lawyer to educate me on D in my state? Why am I obsessing about it constantly, telling her over and over...I joked to her that I was going to send her an email every minute of the day every day at one point. "YOU MUST HAVE DELIBERATE NC!"

 

That was my motivation for telling OMW, even though the right motivation would be she had a right to know. That's why I called her sister 1 week after I found out she was pregnant. That's why this may go even bigger this weekend. That's a big part of why I'm still here jabbing with you guys ^^

[Ninja'sHusband]

I agree, although you can imagine it's frustrating for the reader. I have a WS who does the complete opposite of NH's wife (I expect nothing less) and he deserves the same. I'm not angry so much at him as I am FOR him.

I'll be honest, it's BHs that have put serious effort into R that I identify more with. They tend to understand the emotional justification and remorselessness that WWs tend to have a whole lot better. They tend to also understand what works with women better. Maybe the hard line works with men, but women lose that emotional connection, and they just end up not giving a #$% anymore... That's what I've seen, and read about. Look at WFBACK. HOly #$% do I identify with that guy.

 

I read Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough" book. Know who the intended audience was? Doormat women who wouldn't stand up to a WH who is in an ongoing A. I think he's probably right on what to do in those situations. I've heard story after story about WSs who turned over backwards to make up for their A. I noticed something though, most of those people are MEN! That Karate sensei who quit after 37 years? Male. Alice's WH? Male, Sandies WH? Male

Who do I tend to identify with more? Owl, Kidd, TBK.

I think they understand what I'm going through a whole lot better. Owl is a little different because his was an EA, but I still value his input.

[Ninja'sHusband]

You pay Harley to convince you to STAY in the marriage.

 

You're consulting with an attorney so you can threaten her some more with the fact that you actually went to see an attorney in order to scare her, but you'll never file.

 

You wait until Friday, because if MM doesn't go, that buys you another week.

If Harley can save the M great. I haven't told my W about the lawyer apt. I've learned threats don't work.

 

And yeah, I might never file. Very true. It's the last thing I want to do, I'm avoiding it like the plague.

[Lois]

If Harley can save the M great. I haven't told my W about the lawyer apt. I've learned threats don't work.

 

And yeah, I might never file. Very true. It's the last thing I want to do, I'm avoiding it like the plague.

 

And that is why your wife will continue to do what she wants, when she wants ... with cooking dinner and grocery shopping thrown in, just to make herself look good.

[Artie Lang]

look, Ninja. you seem like a helluva great guy. you're trying so hard to make this work, for the sake of your child-- very admirable, indeed.

 

why can't she do the same.....that's all i'm sayin'?. why can't she put the same effort?

 

it's really sad, she can't make this sacrifice to save one the most precious things in life-- FAMILY.

[The Blue Knight]

I'll be honest, it's BHs that have put serious effort into R that I identify more with. They tend to understand the emotional justification and remorselessness that WWs tend to have a whole lot better. They tend to also understand what works with women better. Maybe the hard line works with men, but women lose that emotional connection, and they just end up not giving a #$% anymore... That's what I've seen, and read about. Look at WFBACK. HOly #$% do I identify with that guy.

 

I read Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough" book. Know who the intended audience was? Doormat women who wouldn't stand up to a WH who is in an ongoing A. I think he's probably right on what to do in those situations. I've heard story after story about WSs who turned over backwards to make up for their A. I noticed something though, most of those people are MEN! That Karate sensei who quit after 37 years? Male. Alice's WH? Male, Sandies WH? Male

Who do I tend to identify with more? Owl, Kidd, TBK.

I think they understand what I'm going through a whole lot better. Owl is a little different because his was an EA, but I still value his input.

Very true. And frankly, I think oftentimes the man who is cheated on (the victim) ends up taking on a lot of the blame after the wife comes clean and puts all that crap on him for why SHE had the affair. While I agree that in a lot of cases, both contribute to the marriage going south, I certainly didn't think I did anything that should have led to my ex having an affair.

 

After my ex-cheated she had me convinced that I needed to make changes (which I did), but over time I became angry with myself for buying into a lot of the garbage she handed me.

 

For instance, I was working FT and going to college FT at night after work trying to get my degree completed a bit quicker. I knew it took a toll but it was for a short 18 months with the goal of getting into the profession I sought quicker. I admit that I had a lot of school and a lot of studies back then and I did miss a few things with she and the kids. But I always tried to make up for it when I could.

 

As a result of her affair, I quit school and tried changing a lot of things. Six months later, I was convinced that in reality, those things had little to do with her affair, and in my opinion, she'd simply created those as "issues" to justify her wayward actions.

 

Eventually I was back in school finishing up and as I told her at the time, marriages should be able to endure short-term hardships like 18 months of college without an affair being the result. I suspect a lot of guys end up like I was at that time in my life. Blaming themselves for FAR TOO MUCH in an effort to save to get the marriage and get it back on track.