Boundary setting question

[The Blue Knight]

How much more "trying" does he need to do Sandi? How much more does he need to learn? Dday was in October I believe.

 

NH is making a fool out of himself. I can't even say it's the wife that's making him out to be the fool - it's HIM doing it to himself.

 

This thread really needs to die. He should not be complaining about lack of respect from his wife when he doesn't even respect himself.

Ladies, I've been working the past couple days and I come back to catch up on this thread and all I see is this relentless stream of verbal berating that this poor guy has too take. Isn't it enough that he's got the problem at home to deal with right now?

 

My gosh, you've given your advice. Ninja has read it . . . heard it, and I'm sure he's tucked each of your suggestions in the back of his brain somewhere to be "filed for possible use at a later date."

 

But he's the one who has to pull the trigger. He's the one who has to decide when the time is right for each and every chess piece to move on the board of his marriage. Alice and Sunny . . . you guys have been through a lot in your marriages. God knows you both got screwed over (that's not meant to be a joke) by your husbands, but can we all agree that every individual has to make these decisions in the season of his or her choice?

 

Maybe Ninja's wife lacks remorse and maybe she's never going to change. You both may be 100% dead on. BUT ONLY NINJA can decide when to take it to the next level ladies. You can't do it for him.

 

IF HIS MARRIAGE FAILS, the man doesn't want to look back with dozens of regrets for the rest of his life. That seems perfectly reasonable to me and having been there, I understand why he feels the way that he feels. He wants to exhaust all possibilities. He wants to make sure he's proceeding down the road that he's comfortable traveling. Ladies . . . right now, the two of you are bordering on being harder on this poor guy than his own wife has been.

 

Help him!!! Don't insult the man. He's the one living his life. Not you guys. The man has a ton of emotional baggage on his plate right now. Be nice. Tough love is a very valuable tool. But he has to decide when and how to deploy it.

[2sunny]

Ladies, I've been working the past couple days and I come back to catch up on this thread and all I see is this relentless stream of verbal berating that this poor guy has too take. Isn't it enough that he's got the problem at home to deal with right now?

 

My gosh, you've given your advice. Ninja has read it . . . heard it, and I'm sure he's tucked each of your suggestions in the back of his brain somewhere to be "filed for possible use at a later date."

 

But he's the one who has to pull the trigger. He's the one who has to decide when the time is right for each and every chess piece to move on the board of his marriage. Alice and Sunny . . . you guys have been through a lot in your marriages. God knows you both got screwed over (that's not meant to be a joke) by your husbands, but can we all agree that every individual has to make these decisions in the season of his or her choice?

 

Maybe Ninja's wife lacks remorse and maybe she's never going to change. You both may be 100% dead on. BUT ONLY NINJA can decide when to take it to the next level ladies. You can't do it for him.

 

IF HIS MARRIAGE FAILS, the man doesn't want to look back with dozens of regrets for the rest of his life. That seems perfectly reasonable to me and having been there, I understand why he feels the way that he feels. He wants to exhaust all possibilities. He wants to make sure he's proceeding down the road that he's comfortable traveling. Ladies . . . right now, the two of you are bordering on being harder on this poor guy than his own wife has been.

 

Help him!!! Don't insult the man. He's the one living his life. Not you guys. The man has a ton of emotional baggage on his plate right now. Be nice. Tough love is a very valuable tool. But he has to decide when and how to deploy it.

 

So you feel staying with a serial cheater who has no remorse is a good idea?

[The Blue Knight]

BK - NH has stated his wife also cheated before and he caught her then and forgave her that first time...

 

I haven't suggested NH get D until he pointed out this info last night...

 

I do have a VERY human side... Even though you may not think so.

 

I don't normally encourage D for posters here unless they exhaust avenues of fixing what is broken... D is difficult, yes. But it isn't the end of the world. In fact, for me - it allowed me a ton of freedom. Freedom from the constant worry of "could he possibly be cheating again?"

 

Peace of mind can't be bought. I've learned to embrace this new life and am happy to say it was worth all the pain in order to get to this happy place.

 

The D wasn't the end - it was MY beginning.

You probably do have a very human side Sunny. It may be easier for me and others to see if we were all sitting in one room talking to one another. At times I wish I could get past this forum screen and get to know a few of the people I've developed relationships with on loveshack on a more personal "people" level rather than sitting at a keyboard behind a blasted monitor. It's extremely cold and impersonal.

 

BUT I should tell you that you don't always come off with that "human side." You come across as "it's my way or the highway" and although your material suggestions and your experience is extremely valuable to share, this guy has to take the steps in his own good time, as each of us who was cheated on had to do. But we each process differently and each of us brings a whole smorgasbord of varying environmental backgrounds, emotional baggage, and personality dynamics to a marriage, and therefore, each of us is going to handle our affairs slightly differently.

 

I would agree with you that there is life after divorce. But then again, I've seen individuals divorce and their lives are never the same afterward. They just kind of zombie-out after it all falls apart. Some rebound on to better lives with new-found love and a better and more fitting spouse. There's no guarantee either way.

 

So I say, let the guy exhaust all of his avenues and if it takes him a year to work through it, and it fails, and you turn out to be right about everything, he'll know you were right in due time. And if it works out, well then he was one of the lucky ones, and perhaps the marriage can be rebuilt from the debris. It's not a race to the finish line to see who can get there first and that's the way your postings comes across I believe. It's okay for some people to take it slower and work through the marital maze thrust upon them.

[The Blue Knight]

So you feel staying with a serial cheater who has no remorse is a good idea?

Sunny my dear. I really think your heart is in the right place and I mean that. But it doesn't matter what I think or believe because I'm not Ninja. He's got to make those decisions. To answer your question, no . . . I generally don't think it's a good idea to stick it out with a serial cheater who lacks remorse. Those are two huge red flags. But who am I to shoot badgering messages at him TELLING him what he needs to do? It doesn't matter what I've gone through or what you've gone through in the world of cheating spouses. This is brand new stuff to him and he has to work through the problem at a pace that is comfortable for him.

 

I've bounced my past "stuff" off of him in a few postings. He knows most of my background and what I dealt with with my ex. I assume if he runs across a question he thinks I can shed some light on he'll ask me or post to the forum seeking further answers.

[2sunny]

I would love it if my gut were wrong about Ninjas situation BK... Would love it if his wife would change. She has no reason to change though - she's getting everything she needs... At the expense of Ninja and his happiness.

[The Blue Knight]

I would love it if my gut were wrong about Ninjas situation BK... Would love it if his wife would change. She has no reason to change though - she's getting everything she needs... At the expense of Ninja and his happiness.

I would agree Sunny. I just want to let him work through the problem at a pace that works for him. I'd prefer to feel like we're here to support him, not taunting him with "I told you so" remarks. That's not helpful. Surely you can remember that when you're in the midst of the vortex it's very hard to see clearly through the storm that surrounds you? It's much easier when you're standing outside of the emotional constraints of the problem Ninja is facing, as all of us are.

 

I remember those days even though it was a number of years ago now. Each day you're confused. Some days, you don't know if you can even make it to the end. You're trying to process upon waking each day if it's really something that happened to you or was it a dream. You're hoping for one good nights sleep after several weeks without. You're hoping for a glimmer of hope that the marriage might work each day you wake up. You're trying to figure out what the next move should be. You're constantly exhausted trying to figure out what your spouse REALLY wants. It's an endless cycle of emotions that makes it very difficult to see clearly what direction you should be going. Ninja will figure out what's best for him in due time. Let's be here to help him work through it if he needs us.

 

[SandieBeach]

When posters try to get a BS to see the things that are so apparent, they have seen a lot of the same thing and are trying to help. I see your point, because I sure did not want to believe what was in front of me, but most will eventually and then they will be the ones to say what the new BSs should be looking at or doing.

 

I am with you. I really am, Steen. But you can tell me about your experience a million times, and you would probably be right...However, unless I experience it myself, it doesn't always register, you know. I told my T in IC days after finding out about the A that I should just leave because there had been so many lies I couldn't fathom. I felt that my a**hole H (sorry, couldn't help it ) couldn't take me seriously if I didn't make that drastic step. She said that I should do whatever I needed to do, but to only do those things when I am ready. It's never too late for me to walk out of the house, and my H knows that it's a very strong possibility...

 

I think NH is hoping so badly that things can get better, and maybe they CAN...I certainly can't tell him otherwise...I just think berating him and calling him weak, will NOT make NH leave his wife...it's like battering a battered woman (so, sorry NH - just an analogy. I don't think that of you at all!)

[SandieBeach]

The Blue Knight

I remember those days even though it was a number of years ago now. Each day you're confused. Some days, you don't know if you can even make it to the end. You're trying to process upon waking each day if it's really something that happened to you or was it a dream. You're hoping for one good nights sleep after several weeks without. You're hoping for a glimmer of hope that the marriage might work each day you wake up. You're trying to figure out what the next move should be. You're constantly exhausted trying to figure out what your spouse REALLY wants. It's an endless cycle of emotions that makes it very difficult to see clearly what direction you should be going. Ninja will figure out what's best for him in due time. Let's be here to help him work through it if he needs us.

 

[Bellechica]

The Blue Knight

I remember those days even though it was a number of years ago now. Each day you're confused. Some days, you don't know if you can even make it to the end. You're trying to process upon waking each day if it's really something that happened to you or was it a dream. You're hoping for one good nights sleep after several weeks without. You're hoping for a glimmer of hope that the marriage might work each day you wake up. You're trying to figure out what the next move should be. You're constantly exhausted trying to figure out what your spouse REALLY wants. It's an endless cycle of emotions that makes it very difficult to see clearly what direction you should be going. Ninja will figure out what's best for him in due time. Let's be here to help him work through it if he needs us.

 

NH, even though your wife isn't doing all she needs to at this moment, remember that she has a whirlwind of emotions going on in her head too and add to that the hormones of being pregnant. Do what you need to do at each moment....

[findingnemo]

NH...Most of the advice you've got has been given with the view of making your life better. Yes, many think you should leave her. I think so too but ultimately you will make that decision when you're ready.

 

I think you should stop EVERYTHING youre doing right now. Concentrate on yourself. I'm talking about setting new boundaries for yourself...not her. I'm talking about deciding to be happy without letting it depend on what she does or doesn't do. No more discussions, no more talks, no more struggle. Let it go...

 

It's not easy but it's a simple decision to make. I'm giving you this advice because I did it. I was struggling at some point about whether to leave my M or not. I so wanted my H to change but he just wouldn't. I spent too much time agonizing over things he said, things he did, things he didn't say or do. It was endless and very frustrating.

 

Someone gave me the advice that I'm giving you now. It seemed like the opposite of what I should do. It made no sense, I didn't even know how to begin. But once I admitted that I was unhappy and yet didn't want to break up my home, I figured I could work on the happiness factor. And so I did. After all, I was still M. I joined a gym, I took up a sport, I saw my friends, started a new business, etc. Eventually I got so independent that my H started feeling uncomfortable. I literally didn't need him anymore and he couldn't handle it. That situation led to a massive climax of violence (I doubt that will be your problem) but it was also the end. In a moment, I was able to make a decision that I've never regretted. And moving on was very easy because I had lived as if I was alone for the last year or so. Think about it this way...the problem is that you're not happy. She is..at least she is getting what she wants. Now it's time you did what you can to be happy given your situation.

 

Maybe instead of thinking of how to have a happy M, you should figure out how to make your life as it is happier.

[jwi71]

NH,

 

What is your goal here?

 

To remain M to your W despite her repeated A's?

If so, that's easy. Look the other way. I had, being a smarta$$, suggested crochet but the point is made. Simply ignore her A's. Live as roomies until YOU think your D is old enough to accept you filing for D.

 

Gotta a secret for you. Your D, regardless of age, won't like it. It'll hurt her no matter what. She'll recover though. She'll lead a normal and happy life. She doesn't need M parents for that-she needs involved loving ones. But really, I get the sense you don't want to be blamed for it. Actually, you straight up said that - I even replied to it. But here's the thing, in time, as your D gets older and matures, she'll figure it out. Or, and more likely, she'll ask why you file for D. Then you tell her. I'm fairly certain she'll not blame you because her mother repeatedly cheated on you.

 

Anyways.

 

However, you seem pretty determined to change your W. Is that the goal? To change her into the image of a loyal loving "traditional" spouse?

If your goal is to FORCE your W, through humiliation or pain of loss (both methods of control). Unfortunately, you cannot FORCE a person to change. True, they may alter their BEHAVIOR for a time but it doesn't change WHO or WHAT they are. In essence, you force them to wear a mask. For YOUR benefit. A short lived benefit. For a person to change, they have to want it.

 

Does your W seem interested in changing to fit your mold?

What ACTIONS can you take then to "convince/force/control/manipulate" her to WANT to change?

What actions have you tried to get her to change?

Was the result favorable?

 

The answer appears to be a resounding "no".

 

Identify your goal.

Identify ACTIONS YOU can take to reach it. These actions cannot involve your W. She has to want it as well. If she doesn't, then those actions or possible actions become manipulation. This is why threaten to tell sensei and threatening D (again) wont work. They are actions designed around HER (manipulation/control). Identify ACTIONS for YOU.

 

Ultimately, there are no ACTIONS you can take to control her. Only actions for yourself. And you will find what we have been telling you. There is nothing you can do to save your M. She doesn't value it enough. And you can't MAKE her value it. A marriage of one is no marriage but rather a prison.

 

Your life. Your choice. Your consequences.

 

Choose wisely.

[2sunny]

Many suggestions have been made on how Ninja can change HIM... But he CHOOSES to focus on changing what he can't change = his wife.

 

But I will tell you this - WHEN he decides to change HIM and approaches this whole situation in a DIFFERENT manner and with a different attitude - that is when he will see change in her!

 

We DO AFFECT others - and she's used to him making demands so she can say no. So any CONTRARY ACTION on Ninja's behalf would automatically invoke change in the marriage.

 

Opposite action bring a different reaction. I have evidence to prove it.

 

Even no reaction (no matter what) is a new action! One that brings a calm in the midst of a storm.

 

I have chaos around me on a regular basis - but I always CHOOSE not to react to the chaos - it shuts the chaos down more quickly! I don't grow negative energy with MORE negative energy.

 

Some words to shut down negative energy used can be simple responses:

 

Yes

NO

Maybe

Let me think about that

I'll get back to on that

What do you plan to do about that?

Let me know how that works out

That doesn't work for me

Thanks for telling me

And a useful one ---> Hmmmmmmm

 

Nothing else needs to be said except those simple responses.

 

It sends a clear message that you heard them but doesn't engage them in any emotional exchange.

 

Also - when I'm not talking it allows ME to be a good listener! And it's amazing what people say to fill the silence! Nervous chatter to take up the space is very interesting to listen to...

 

This opposite action provides a peace of mind that I'm not going to ALLOW someone else to "bait me" and get a crazy emotional reaction from ME.

 

It's like watching someone dump a bunch of their $hit at my feet and they expect ME to fix it... I simply show with my NONACTIONS that I'm not the one to clean up their $hit. Doing NOTHING and saying nothing but "that is YOURS to clean up"or "let me know how that works out" tells them I'm not their dumping ground.

 

I'm not expected to fix everything for everyone. I can only DO me!

 

Make sense?

 

No reaction (most of the time) is the perfect reaction!

 

But when someone's life is on the line my only response I need to say is "how can I be helpful?"

 

There's beauty in not growing negative energy bigger to adding in more chaos! If you ignore the negative energy long enough - it will go away!

[findingnemo]

I agree, 2sunny. And I love the response "hmmmmm". It's perfect and so easy. It allows you to let crap sail over your head and you can go on with your

life. And it pi$$es the other party off to no end.

[turnera]

He has two choices:

 

Stay and know she will continue cheating

 

OR

 

Divorce her so you can begin living again.

Or get his butt in gear to improve his self esteem so he can realize what he's worth and so he can start enacting the boundaries we've spoken of so that SHE will choose to either stop cheating to keep him, or leave herself.

[turnera]

NH,

 

What is your goal here?

 

To remain M to your W despite her repeated A's?

If so, that's easy. Look the other way.

He has repeatedly told us that he is most likely going to stay no matter what, because he wants his daughter to grow up in a single home.

 

Period.

 

Now, if you want to help him IMPROVE that situation, how can you help him enact boundaries so that living there is more tolerable? What can he do to shift what his wife experiences so that she MAY have a come to Jesus moment and realize what she's doing? How can he show his daughter that, while he's staying in a bad situation, she should not grow up to be a cheater or a doormat? How can you get him to see - without browbeating him - that leaving her would still result in a great life for his daughter?

 

Help him with THAT stuff.

[2sunny]

Another idea I liked that was mentioned here is just staying so busy - busy having FUN with YOUR OWN interests - that you don't even care or notice what she is or isn't doing!

 

Some hobbies could easily include your daughter - like art classes, painting, ceramics or a sport once a week like bowling. Bonding time for both of you!

 

Join a hiking club, go on weekend hikes! Take a night class just for growth and fun!

 

Start meeting new people. It could be an adventure to becoming the new you!

[2sunny]

I agree, 2sunny. And I love the response "hmmmmm". It's perfect and so easy. It allows you to let crap sail over your head and you can go on with your

life. And it pi$$es the other party off to no end.

 

Yep!

 

Because when someone drops their chaos on you - they essentially are asking you to fix it. It's THEIRS and it's THEIRS to figure out how to fix it or not!

 

Once it becomes apparent that it's their pattern to continue creating chaos but they are the only one left to DO something with their own crap - they eventually figure out that they either fix it themselves or move on to find another "fixer type" of person to do that FOR THEM!

[2sunny]

And if you don't enjoy going to her MA groups - I don't blame you.

 

But you can NOT go - you could send your daughter to learn! She can use the money you've already paid...and have time with Mommy while she goes.

[jwi71]

He has repeatedly told us that he is most likely going to stay no matter what, because he wants his daughter to grow up in a single home.

 

Period.

 

Now, if you want to help him IMPROVE that situation, how can you help him enact boundaries so that living there is more tolerable?

 

I answered that.

He ignores it and lives as roomies.

I also suggested crochet.

 

What do YOU suggest?

 

What can he do to shift what his wife experiences so that she MAY have a come to Jesus moment and realize what she's doing?

 

He can do nothing as she doesn't serm to care about HIS vision of a perfect M.

And why would she? She has him, the D has both parents, and she gets to bang multiple OMs. I'm not seeing, from HER perspective, a REASON to change.

Disclosure hadn't worked.

Threat of D hadn't worked.

 

What do you think he should do given that?

What real and practical actions can he take in your view to change her?

 

How can he show his daughter that, while he's staying in a bad situation, she should not grow up to be a cheater or a doormat? How can you get him to see - without browbeating him - that leaving her would still result in a great life for his daughter?

 

That's a good question.

It seems hypocritical to stay in the very situation you say he doesn't want for his D. Do what I say not what I do kinda thing.

 

To me, the most effective way to teach the lesson of not being a doormat or that cheating is wrong...is to leave situations like that.

 

What do you suggest he does?

Perhaps he can tell his D just how noble HE is and how wrong his W is? I'm not sure that would be healthy for his D. Can you imagine how confusing that must be for the D? To be told how wrong her mother is behaving and right and just daddy is? Not sure that's the best idea from a mentl health perspective - always hearing how wrong one parent is.

 

What do YOU suggest NH DO?

 

Help him with THAT stuff.

 

I am. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean squat.

What do YOU think he should DO?

[2sunny]

He can also suggest an open marriage. Since she has done it without asking permission - he CAN do it - as long as he asks permission and they make a NEW marital agreement.

[Steen719]

I am with you. I really am, Steen. But you can tell me about your experience a million times, and you would probably be right...However, unless I experience it myself, it doesn't always register, you know. I told my T in IC days after finding out about the A that I should just leave because there had been so many lies I couldn't fathom. I felt that my a**hole H (sorry, couldn't help it ) couldn't take me seriously if I didn't make that drastic step. She said that I should do whatever I needed to do, but to only do those things when I am ready. It's never too late for me to walk out of the house, and my H knows that it's a very strong possibility...

 

I think NH is hoping so badly that things can get better, and maybe they CAN...I certainly can't tell him otherwise...I just think berating him and calling him weak, will NOT make NH leave his wife...it's like battering a battered woman (so, sorry NH - just an analogy. I don't think that of you at all!)

 

 

Well, I have never told NH to leave his wife and I have never called him weak or berated him. (I know you did not say I, personally, did that) I also have not posted much on this because I don't have as much perseverance as some other posters do to try to get someone to see what is in front of them. Most of them should be commended for caring so much about someone they don't know. It is like having a friend who continually does something that gets the same result. They keep trying while some of us just throw up our hands and say...OK...do it again and see if you get a different result.

 

So, I am sure you are right. Many people don't see what is in front of them and no matter how many times you tell them, they will only hear what they want to hear and do what they want to do. To me, this is the same as Belle's thread. Over and over, the same thing. NH will do what he does and he will do it when he ready.

 

I will tell you this. I wish, with all my heart, and was telling a friend this last night, that I wished when my XH came to me this last time (but actually, really the first time, also) and said I love you, but I am not in love with you, I had stood up, said well, fine. Go now to whoever she is and knock yourself out. Believe me, I would saved myself months of crying, trying and heartache. Just one example of how I could have saved myself the pain I have been through. Look at Surfer's thread. His signature says "I should have listened the first time around" or something like that.

 

Well, it is what it is, so NH will do what he wants.

[firemanq]

Many suggestions have been made on how Ninja can change HIM... But he CHOOSES to focus on changing what he can't change = his wife.

 

But I will tell you this - WHEN he decides to change HIM and approaches this whole situation in a DIFFERENT manner and with a different attitude - that is when he will see change in her!

 

We DO AFFECT others - and she's used to him making demands so she can say no. So any CONTRARY ACTION on Ninja's behalf would automatically invoke change in the marriage.

 

Opposite action bring a different reaction. I have evidence to prove it.

 

Even no reaction (no matter what) is a new action! One that brings a calm in the midst of a storm.

 

I have chaos around me on a regular basis - but I always CHOOSE not to react to the chaos - it shuts the chaos down more quickly! I don't grow negative energy with MORE negative energy.

 

Some words to shut down negative energy used can be simple responses:

 

Yes

NO

Maybe

Let me think about that

I'll get back to on that

What do you plan to do about that?

Let me know how that works out

That doesn't work for me

Thanks for telling me

And a useful one ---> Hmmmmmmm

 

Nothing else needs to be said except those simple responses.

 

It sends a clear message that you heard them but doesn't engage them in any emotional exchange.

 

Also - when I'm not talking it allows ME to be a good listener! And it's amazing what people say to fill the silence! Nervous chatter to take up the space is very interesting to listen to...

 

This opposite action provides a peace of mind that I'm not going to ALLOW someone else to "bait me" and get a crazy emotional reaction from ME.

 

It's like watching someone dump a bunch of their $hit at my feet and they expect ME to fix it... I simply show with my NONACTIONS that I'm not the one to clean up their $hit. Doing NOTHING and saying nothing but "that is YOURS to clean up"or "let me know how that works out" tells them I'm not their dumping ground.

 

I'm not expected to fix everything for everyone. I can only DO me!

 

Make sense?

 

No reaction (most of the time) is the perfect reaction!

 

But when someone's life is on the line my only response I need to say is "how can I be helpful?"

 

There's beauty in not growing negative energy bigger to adding in more chaos! If you ignore the negative energy long enough - it will go away!

 

The above works and will take power away from the cheater, and expand the power of the cheated. And Ninja Husband needs more power. The more power he has, the more power he gets.

 

Another response I used was "Let me check my notes about that conversation." The first time I said that, there was a silence on the other end. She started to not change her story so much and kept to the truth, somewhat. The tone of voice needs to be flat, monotone, no emotion. Do not get mad. It will drive the lying cheating bastard crazy. you changed adn they do not know what is going to happen. Then go out to the woodpile and split a couple of cords. I had lots of kindling wood before the divorce happened.

 

I gave that advice to a friend who was going through a nasty divorce. (is there any other kind?) His STBXW picked-up the kids and started to dis-respect him,in front of the kids. He started to give her the same attitude. Then a calm came over him and he got distant, cool, and gave the responses listed above. She go so mad, she hit him square on the nose. Blood poured out, he looked at her and asked if she was done. She stormed off. He then got really smart. He did not clean up, change clothes or anything. He went straight to the police station and filed charges, still bloodied. That week his lawyer contacted her lawyer, just before a court date. Everything changed, he got better visitation, reduced child support (his $80.00 a month did not even buy food) and payable only when she had the kids. I was so proud of Mark, I could have kissed him!

 

We all hope Ninja Husband grows a set, but all changes are up to him. Not us.

[The Blue Knight]

I am with you. I really am, Steen. But you can tell me about your experience a million times, and you would probably be right...However, unless I experience it myself, it doesn't always register, you know.

 

I think NH is hoping so badly that things can get better, and maybe they CAN...I certainly can't tell him otherwise...I just think berating him and calling him weak, will NOT make NH leave his wife...it's like battering a battered woman (so, sorry NH - just an analogy. I don't think that of you at all!)

Anyone who has kids will tell you it's the same thing Sandie brought up. You can tell your kids about all your life's mistakes until you're blue in the face and impress upon them how you don't want them to suffer from the same mistakes over and over and over. Guess what? They will need to probably make most of those mistakes on their own. It took me a while to figure this out by the way.

 

My older kids who made mistakes just tell me now, "Dad, I wished I had listened to what you told me back then." Sure, I could beat them up verbally and make them feel miserable for not listening to me in the first plae. Instead I just say, "Hey, at least you learned from your mistake and now you can move forward."

 

Affair advice is very much the same thing. 100 people can tell Ninja or Sandie about their detailed experiences with wayward spouses, but they still have to work through their own lives with their own spouses at a comfort level that works for them emotionally, and psychologically.

 

And as far as the Ninja-Man being equated to a battered woman . . . let's just say, there's enough written evidence on this thread that he could easily be labeled a very battered and bruised loveshack husband, courtesy of several of the ladies.

[The Blue Knight]

The Blue Knight

I remember those days even though it was a number of years ago now. Each day you're confused. Some days, you don't know if you can even make it to the end. You're trying to process upon waking each day if it's really something that happened to you or was it a dream. You're hoping for one good nights sleep after several weeks without. You're hoping for a glimmer of hope that the marriage might work each day you wake up. You're trying to figure out what the next move should be. You're constantly exhausted trying to figure out what your spouse REALLY wants. It's an endless cycle of emotions that makes it very difficult to see clearly what direction you should be going. Ninja will figure out what's best for him in due time. Let's be here to help him work through it if he needs us.

 

Thank you for the empathetic sad face Sandie. Not that I really dwell on that period of my life much. I do have rerun glimpses of those emotions I felt when I read postings by Ninja, WFBack, Pete, and others here. What made those days particularly worse was going to work and trying to deal with everyone elses problems when I was right in the middle of my own little hornet's nest. That sucked.

[Ninja'sHusband]

1) Belle: WW doesn't have pregnancy hormones running through her right now. She miscarried a week after she told me she was pregnant. That was back in October.

 

2) Kidd sent me an email. Basically said to slow the **** down. I could make decisions at my own pace. He was worried about me telling sensei, that it would create a giant rift. Its confusing for me because I'm moving to a new place soon...and we have to either go to one larger house...or two smaller ones. So I feel a sense of urgency to get through all this.

 

3) The lawyer actually mentioned moving to a smaller place for 1 year while we try to work things out. btw, the guy I saw was a mediation lawyer (yes I did that deliberately). He made it really clear to me that with mediation cases, noone really gets "served papers". The cases where someone gets served are a lot more rare these days. They are the more extreme, nasty Ds with expensive litigation, etc.

 

I hear you guys' points about telling sensei just being another manipulation tactic. Basically the same thing Harley said, and what Kidd said.

 

It just feels so much more right to me than deliberately tearing the family apart. Sure D would be for *me* but it affects 3 people, once of them an innocent bystander. Telling sensei the truth....that puts the repercussions on 2 people: my WW and the OMM...right where repercussions belong. Writing that sentence just gave me new resolve to stay my course actually. I dunno, maybe OM won't even be there tonight...then I don't know what I'll do.

 

I feel like telling sensei is also the right thing to do because it could also help the OMW out. Even if I D, there's another M in trouble because of this ****.