Boundary setting question

[turnera]

Maybe I'll talk to OMW about it some more at some point.

Oh no, not that! Her cheating ways will be done for sure, if you do THAT!

 

NH, come on. What exactly have you learned about boundaries during this?

 

Two months ago, you were going to end everything. Then you admitted you never would. This week, you were going to actually enact A consequence (since you haven't done any so far); and now you've backed off from that, too.

[Ninja'sHusband]

And you have taught her this...how?

taught her what?

 

I'm glad I've let go of that anger. I went through the full circle of emotions. That was the height of my anger phase. Yeah later I came crashing down into grief. The grief caused me to retract. Now I feel like I'm more level headed about everything (I know, cue laughter)

[Ninja'sHusband]

Oh no, not that! Her cheating ways will be done for sure, if you do THAT!

 

NH, come on. What exactly have you learned about boundaries during this?

 

Two months ago, you were going to end everything. Then you admitted you never would. This week, you were going to actually enact A consequence (since you haven't done any so far); and now you've backed off from that, too.

 

 

Let's look at what's really going on here though.

 

They broke NC recently. 1 time.....with me there. The only interaction was they were both part of a brief discussion with about 4 people, from across the room.

 

They won't be in contact again for weeks. When they are, I'll be there. OM will be grilled by OMW.

 

I'm supposed to go against the other BS's wishes and plant a nuclear bomb that will likely destroy all the progress I've made with my W over the last month? We've gone from her drawing knives and slugging me to being a normal couple, having fun, sex, working together nicely, etc. No, it's not worth it right now over one supervised noninteractive meeting.

[Artie Lang]

i feel you, and i can synpathize with your position.

 

late this marinate in you brain, though. as you're aware, sensei trusted this man just like you trusted your wife; just like OM's BW trusted him.....doesn't it follow that sensei was being cheated-on, also? maybe not physically or emotionally, but cheated-on in the sense that his trust was violated by this OM.

 

he entrusted this OM to be his intermediary, if you will, toward the rest of the pupils.....to instill the values of what turnera speaks of-- respect and control. not only that, but honesty, loyalty, and fidelity. this OM is awash in corrupt behavior. this is something sensei must be made aware of, given that sensei has entrusted him with, not only the keys to the dojo, but the values that surround the artform.

[2sunny]

Wait - did they actually have sex in the MA building? Did you even ask her that direct question?

 

He had a key - why else would they go there when no one was around?

[Steen719]

Yeah you are probably right. This A wasn't an "oopsie" mistake. It was actually VERY DELIBERATE. I shouldn't lie to myself. The way WW initially described it to me it could have been a momemtary lapse of judgement....but they friggin talked about it on an airplane first. The planned it out. They went to hotels....they went back to the dojo when everyone else was gone. It was as deliberate as it could get.

 

Thanks for calling me out on that. You are right.

 

You are welcome. You know, NH, I see some posters on here who are getting help from others and every now and then, a lot of posters try to help one person. You are one of those "one persons" that everyone is trying to help. It is sort of sad to me that things are still like this for you at this point. I hope you can get some peace with a decision and go forward with it. Most of us here know how bad it feels to have someone do the kinds of things your wife has done to you, but I don't think you will get closure and start to heal either way, D or R, until all of your cards are on the table. I always feel like you are breathing shallowly when I read your posts, like you are afraid to do anything for fear for something??

 

You don't want to hurt your daughter, but how happy is she going to be if you are not? Oh well, enough of that.

[jwi71]

I don't want them to have any contact either, and according to OMW there won't be for the next few weeks anyway.

 

In all of this, since I have joined, your WW's needs, the OMW's needs and even the OM needs always outweigh YOUR needs.

When do YOUR needs matter?

 

From the outside looking in, to demand your WW to no longer have contact with her lover is NOT unreasonable. In fact, I would argue its NECESSARY for you and your M to heal.

 

Does your MC agree that NC is necessary - if you don't mind me asking.

 

These were the OMW's words. I can guess though.

It will cause WW and OMM pain for obvious reasons

It will cause me pain because my WW will be angry at me and our relationship will degrade badly.

I'm not sure what pain it will cause OMW. I think she's afraid her kids will find out. She said "it would destroy them". They are teens, 2 ofem.

 

Incorrect grasshopper. (Seems appropriate given the dojo setting)

You may have heard the OMW's voice but those were the OM's words.

Neither of you can say you don't want your respective WS's to have contact then promptly allow that very thing in the very place the had the A. Each of you is deferring to each respective WS. The OMW is doing as you...allowing the WS to attend on the HOPES it won't happen again because each WS <insert excuse here> (for your WW, self esteem, for the OM, its more). The fear of pain is bogus. Your OM fears being exposed to a valued mentor - the sensei. It is fear of failure (to the sensie) and of being exposed as a fraud (to the sensei).

 

 

I am training there as well now. This will be my 3rd week. The class is non-interactive. no sparring, no contact, etc.

 

Quit. The both of you. Find another or find another discipline. You aren't too engaged and your WW is going to start giving.

 

I'm still not ok with it...but sigh...

 

Ah. Conflict and contradiction.

In the post where you informed LS of the conversation with the OMW...you were happy. You were going to enjoy your happy family.

 

Except you AREN'T happy. You just said so. And why the hell would you?

 

Because no person TRULY wants and can truly be happy with continued contact between WS and OM/OW. This is cognitive dissonance. You feel it is wrong to allow her to continue the contact but do it anyway. I'll let you google that and read what happens to individuals who allow cognitive dissonance to persist. Its not good.

 

Again, you are crafting an ILLUSION of a happy family - but inside you are not ok with your WW and OM being together. It is embryonic resentment. And that's clearly a bad thing.

 

OMW did say to do what I needed to. I'm very sure she was referring to telling sensei because we were still on that subject. She doesn't agree, but she wasn't like "I'LL F-ING KILL U IF YOU DO NO NO NO!" lol

 

My guess is she was browbeat into that position just as you were.

Pure guess though.

 

IC for both WW and myself. Hopefully...WW will do it. I just sent mail a few minutes ago to setup an appt for myself. We've had a lot of counseling already btw, both IC and MC. We've both learned a lot. I've read like 15 books, she's read a few too. We have some better skills now I think, just...need...to...use...them...consistently....

 

What skills have YOU gleaned from IC and MC.

And that's a great question to ask your WW....(perhaps do this in MC)

In fact, is you are in MC...ask this:

 

"Doc, does a child need married parents to be 'normal and healthy'? Or can a single father - or divorced parents raise a 'normal and healthy child'?"

 

This does two things. It will assuage your fear that D will ruin your D forever (my two kids are doing just fine post D) and its a shot across her bow. That should rattle her. And that's a good thing. Shes way to complacent about this MA and being around her OM. That's gotta end.

 

Blarg, the million dollar Q!

 

Aint it though?

So ask your W.

Straight up ask her. What was her answer.

 

This time around...uuhhh...it went from

"I dunno, something is wrong with me, I'll go to counseling"

to

"I would have never cheated if we had a strong M, it was because of everything over the last 14 years!"

 

Blameshifting 101. She's not owning it.

IS this her position still? If so, its cause for great alarm.

 

I call BS. I was because she has self esteem issues, is a conflict avoider, and is in the middle of a horrible MLC. This is based on things she's done and told me.

 

And until she fixes those things within herself...no more MA. Heavy duty IC.

Because until she fixes herself she and by extension your M is still vulnerable. Remember when I said you cant control her...she has to want it - THIS is what she HAS to fix. No one can do it for her. And making excuses and allowing to use excuses will solve nothing.

 

I think we are still doing well around my daughter for the most part. We even to her to IC to see if she's ok. T said she seemed happy, no signs of damage or like she knows what's going on. We could setup another session though to probe deeper.

 

Your call. If you think she is ok...then whats the point?

If you have doubts...go for it.

 

Definitely! :) :) Very glad I made it.

 

Outstanding!

I think you will find that exposure SAVES the M. It identifies friends of the M. It helps circle the wagons. You would be SHOCKED at the support you get. And by support I mean extra watching eyes.

 

I do think you should expose to the sensei. The purpose is NOT to hurt but to heal. Heal YOU. Heal your M. No way your WW will see this. Not now anyway. Yup, she'll be pissed....all I said before. But Im not her to support anyone but YOU. And I think its in YOUR best interest. Your M's best interest. Honestly, I (and you) don't give damn about anyone else...time to save your M.

[2sunny]

He wants to stay with her even if she's creating this "illusion" that she won't cheat again or at least won't have contact with her OM. I'd love to know what her idea of NC is...as she's seeing him at her events...that to me IS contact. We all know it's contact - she just always seems to get whatever she wants - at any cost of hurting others.

 

If that's what he wants to believe - then who are we to say any differently for him?

 

We've all pointed out many good things for him to consider - he chooses carefully what to do and mainly NOT do to change this. That part is on NH.

 

It could stay like this forever - because he is allowing it.

 

Until he decides he's not going to allow it anymore - she's calling ALL the shots.

 

I hope you had an uneventful night at the dojo... I really do.

[Try]

They broke NC recently. 1 time.....with me there. The only interaction was they were both part of a brief discussion with about 4 people' date=' from across the room.[/quote'] By doing it in front of you, they were establishing this as a now allowable contact right. With this foothold established, they will expand on it bit by bit over time.

 

They won't be in contact again for weeks. When they are' date=' I'll be there. OM will be grilled by OMW.[/quote'] The OMW admitted that she had no more control over her husband than you do your wife. I doubt being “grilled by OMW” is anything that worries him at all. In a few weeks, once they have you and the OMW calmed down, they will slowly expand on their contact rights until eventually they will be chatting like normal and they will dare both you and the OMW to do anything about it. They will rationalize this contact by telling you and the OMW something to the effect of “how can we not talk to each other when we are in same class, and why does it matter since you are right there watching?” You and the OMW will both back down again and everyone now knows it.

 

I'm supposed to go against the other BS's wishes and plant a nuclear bomb that will likely destroy all the progress I've made with my W over the last month? We've gone from her drawing knives and slugging me to being a normal couple' date=' having fun, sex, working together nicely, etc. No, it's not worth it right now over one supervised noninteractive meeting.[/quote'] Telling the instructor was what you said that you were doing instead going the filing for divorce route. You were looking for a reason to back down on this and the OMW gave it to you. You even think that you are now back to being a “normal couple, having fun, sex, working together nicely”. The rug sweeping is now complete. There will be no further consequences. Your wife will cheat again; not wishing this on you but it is just the truth.

 

Although, I will still pray for you, I am not sure if I will post on your thread again for a while. It is just too painful. Unlike many, I am the type of person that looks away when they see a train wreak happening. You sound like a nice and decent person. I wish you well.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Try

[Wanderer25]

Yeah you are probably right. This A wasn't an "oopsie" mistake. It was actually VERY DELIBERATE. I shouldn't lie to myself. The way WW initially described it to me it could have been a momemtary lapse of judgement....but they friggin talked about it on an airplane first. The planned it out. They went to hotels....they went back to the dojo when everyone else was gone. It was as deliberate as it could get.

 

Thanks for calling me out on that. You are right.

 

 

And the pregnancy and deliberately trying to have his kid. Also confessing because she wanted to give him paternal rights

[LifesontheUp]

NH,

 

I didn't realise your wife has done this before

 

Brushing it under the carpet doesn't work, it leads to repeat cheating as your wife has proven.

 

I'm really sorry you are going through this, but why do you think it will be any different this time? Your wife has some serious boundary issues which she isn't willing to address. I'm afraid its just a matter of time and she will do it again.

 

Why are you allowing this to happen to you? Why put up with this?

 

Sorry but I don't get that you are doing this for your daughter. You are doing it partly for your daughter, but I think deep down you are scared, scared to be without your wife. But lets face it, it'll get rug swept, be good for perhaps if you are lucky a few years and she'll doing it again.

 

My mum was a serial cheater, and her 3 kids, were glad when our dad kicked her out for good. Kids get affected NH whether you know it or not. Staying isn't always the best option for your daughter or you, it can have repercussions for years and not good ones let me tell you.

[Wanderer25]

Yeah you are probably right. This A wasn't an "oopsie" mistake. It was actually VERY DELIBERATE. I shouldn't lie to myself. The way WW initially described it to me it could have been a momemtary lapse of judgement....but they friggin talked about it on an airplane first. The planned it out. They went to hotels....they went back to the dojo when everyone else was gone. It was as deliberate as it could get.

 

Thanks for calling me out on that. You are right.

 

 

And the pregnancy and deliberately trying to have his kid after muddying the waters. And confessing because she wanted to give him paternal rights.

 

And I have a hard time believing that you have the complete story regarding the first affair. Cheating on you because of the resentment is believable but plans to run away tells me that this was much deeper than know. I think you rug swept the first affair out of guilt for neglecting her a week prior. I pretty sure that you don't kick only one of the students for just kissing just because she is a junior. There is more story than that. I'm pretty sure about that.

 

I'm making a guess at this point. see if can use it. Your parents at such a young age early divorce traumatized you. So you are pathologically trying to sustain a marriage that is already dead. You know, like how they sustain bodies in vegetative state. You are trying to fool yourself that you are doing it for the daughter. And honestly this whole thing might have affected your health adversely.

 

If you expose A to the sensei, yes, she will be angry but that is an expected reaction. If at all your marriage has a chance, she will realize her mistake as the anger subsides over time and she will agree with you over the exposure. If the anger persists, your marriage never stood a chance. That she could threaten you over this and you conceding it really pathetic(sorry). You say exposing will make you lose all the progress, but this isn't progress. This is maintain a temporary false peace

Edited April 21, 2012 by Wanderer25

[Try]

One more thing before I take a break from this thread. In response to you saying that you are staying because of your daughter, I posted in a previous thread that “Speaking first hand, my mother at first did what you did and rug swept. It did not work and was hell for me as a child to live in that situation. I was actually thankful for the divorce when it finally came. The funny thing was that once the divorce was almost final, it was my dad the cheater that came begging and my mom that had enough. Again, I know firsthand that rug sweeping was not best for me as a child or for the best chance at my cheating dad seeing the light.”

 

Contrary to your general response that you would leave if the relationship was no longer in the best interest of your daughter, you have stayed even though it has not proven to be in her best interest. The hell that I went through in that situation and the hell your daughter is now going through is that I never wanted to be the excuse for my mom staying and suffering. Although she never said it, I felt it. I wanted the two parents back that loved each other so much that they could easily and naturally focus on me and my brother. Those parents died the minute my dad cheated on my mom. The parents I had after that were so consumed in dealing with themselves and trying to preserve the dead marriage for me and my brother, that they no longer were able to focus on us like they did before. Not that they did not try, but they were human and it was never the same. The normal relationship that I had with both parents forever changed and yet they both felt this false sense of nobleness around me as if this was what I wanted. One thing that really hurt me back then was the lies by omission. Up until then my parent never lied to me and were open with the truth. Yet on this most important matter they “protected” me from the truth, as if I was too stupid to figure most things out on my own. Every time I figured something out I felt betrayed by both of them. I felt like I was no longer a full member of the family entitled to the truth. Even the false smiles they had around each other for me bothered me as lies. Again, after my dad cheated, it became all about them, even when they were supposedly doing something for me and my brother; it just never felt the same anymore and I was miserable.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Try

[SandieBeach]

Well, I have never told NH to leave his wife and I have never called him weak or berated him. (I know you did not say I, personally, did that) I also have not posted much on this because I don't have as much perseverance as some other posters do to try to get someone to see what is in front of them. Most of them should be commended for caring so much about someone they don't know. It is like having a friend who continually does something that gets the same result. They keep trying while some of us just throw up our hands and say...OK...do it again and see if you get a different result.

 

So, I am sure you are right. Many people don't see what is in front of them and no matter how many times you tell them, they will only hear what they want to hear and do what they want to do. To me, this is the same as Belle's thread. Over and over, the same thing. NH will do what he does and he will do it when he ready.

 

I will tell you this. I wish, with all my heart, and was telling a friend this last night, that I wished when my XH came to me this last time (but actually, really the first time, also) and said I love you, but I am not in love with you, I had stood up, said well, fine. Go now to whoever she is and knock yourself out. Believe me, I would saved myself months of crying, trying and heartache. Just one example of how I could have saved myself the pain I have been through. Look at Surfer's thread. His signature says "I should have listened the first time around" or something like that.

 

Well, it is what it is, so NH will do what he wants.

 

I see what you're saying, and I would probably feel the same way as you. HOWEVER, even though your husband said he wasn't in love with you, he didn't just outright leave you. He made you feel that there was at least a glimmer of possibility that he would fall back in love with you. If he said that to you without any doubt, he would be gone and you would have moved on...We all want to hope that our life and relationship with someone we love haven't been in vain, and many of us grasp on that tiny part of hope with everything we have...

 

Of course that knowing what you know now, you would have just let him go. But at that time, you had hope! And if you let him go, maybe you would have spent your life wondering if that was the right decision. You would hear stories about reconciled marriages where a H or W messed up, truly regretted and their marriage became better than ever. Now, after giving your husband that chance, and his failing miserably, you are absolutely sure he was a di*khead. No doubt, right?

 

I hate being sad. I hate feeling alone and miserable and betrayed. I am so pissed off that someone could betray me after I've been there for him and loved him. And more times than not, I want to leave and start a new life. I don't need another man to make me feel good about myself, so it's not like I am worried I will not find anyone else.

 

But one of the biggest fears that I have is regret. I don't ever want to look back and regret a major thing in my life. I don't want to regret not forgiving or at least not trying to forgive.

 

As of now, I still haven't forgiven my H. I get these momentary urges as we're sitting having a pleasant conversation, and he's doing everything to make me feel good, to just punch him straight in the nose and break his schnozzer. I probably wouldn't even feel guilty about it, but that kind of act of domestic violence will probably ruin my reputation .

 

I want NH to get through this and have his happy ending. It may not be possible, and NH knows this. He is not in denial about his wife's behavior. But I get the feeling NH is afraid of regrets just as I am...

[2sunny]

NH -

 

I need to ask you a question...

 

Have you ever cheated on your wife?

 

In my mind - it makes more sense that you keep forgiving the unforgivable if you have been the cheater as well... ?

[Ninja'sHusband]

Try: How old were you when all that went down?

 

 

General note: It's funny how many people were against me telling sensei when I was for it, and now that I'm putting it off everyone is absolutely for it.

 

The fact is, I just can't justify it at this moment. Maybe I should have revealed as soon as I found out about sex in the dojo vi OM's key. I was very inclined to. Only thing that stopped me was that he probably didn't have a key anymore, they moved to a new place. I found about the key % sex in the dojo via the OM himself, in an email. Same email that told me how the A started. My evidence? OM's admission. (There's something to being polite to the enemy ^^) That point it time is passed now. I don't think OM even has a key anymore. I'll ask OMW about that on Monday. I'm thinking I want to talk to her a bit more. She seemed opened to it. Before yesterday I had no clue how she felt about me. Apparently my fears were true for a short time, she did in fact hate me. I'm glad I didn't try to talk to her during that period....wow that would have sucked.

 

Anyway, like I said this may, and probably will, come to a head again in the future...when OM decides to walk in the dojo again. I'm not gonna be happy about that...and of course I'm going to be more inclined to put a stop to it than OMW. OMW doesn't have to look at my WW in class every week. I think that's why she told me, "Do what you need to do". She understands this is a ****ty position for me to be in, even though she's thankful I'm going to class.

 

So yeah, telling sensei...I agree....GOOD IDEA, wish I had done it earlier. Now, I'm taking OMW's current state into consideration, what the overall situation is, etc. I'm just tabling it, not cancelling it. There's a good chance it might happen later on down the road. Me being around OM every week, NOT sustainable, just as I've told my WW and you guys already. The bit about them slowly starting to chat more, getting bolder, etc. That's exactly what I'm afraid of and is something that will push me into telling sensei in the longrun if not earlier. (lol on proofreading this paragraph is almost the same as the last one...I sound like Mojo Jojo w\e )

 

btw Kidd is still against telling. Sent me a big email. I think he'd rather see me wait it out and D if things go south. He agrees the current situation is not sustainable.

 

 

(oh and OM really wasn't there last night, class was actually enjoyable. I'm getting better, less foolish looking)

[whichwayisup]

General note: It's funny how many people were against me telling sensei when I was for it, and now that I'm putting it off everyone is absolutely for it.

 

I was one right from the start to tell you to let the sensei know about the affair that took place under his nose! Just sayin'..

[whichwayisup]

The bit about them slowly starting to chat more, getting bolder, etc. That's exactly what I'm afraid of and is something that will push me into telling sensei in the longrun if not earlier.

 

Yes and if there is continued contact and they have the balls to try to puruse things again, give NO WARNING or heads up, just do it! Like the Nike Ad says.. Tell the sensei. And here comes my favourite "c" word again.. CONSQUENCES.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I was one right from the start to tell you to let the sensei know about the affair that took place under his nose! Just sayin'..

 

 

Yeah there was about a 50/50 split here when this subject first came up. I was completely torn on it. Maybe I can dig that part up.

 

Ah yes, here's where I started thinking about it again (had thought of it before I started this thread actually):

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/314134-boundary-setting-question-9.html#post3835184

[2sunny]

I think the sensei has every right to know they disrespected the place by having sex in the building. Whether they moved or not! That is just SO wrong!!! Especially considering the ethics they pretend to go by while in the program.

 

Yes, they deserve to be eliminated!

 

You should still go tho.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I think the sensei has every right to know they disrespected the place by having sex in the building. Whether they moved or not! That is just SO wrong!!! Especially considering the ethics they pretend to go by while in the program.

 

Yes, they deserve to be eliminated!

 

You should still go tho.

Lol, wouldn't that be a bi***

 

2Sunny, I'm definitely walking the tightrope on this one. Not sure when I'm gonna fall and do it. I'm definitely thinking along these lines. I think what OM did WAS a betrayal of sensei and the other leadership...practically criminal like I said before. The kinda thing that would get put in newspapers and have someone blacklisted kinda evil.

 

Oh and I appreciate everyone's continued support even if it is pretty heavy at times

 

I'm kinda ashamed and...uhh..appreciative? to say this is the second largest infidelity thread on this site now =\ Keep this up and it will be the biggest. some soap opera huh?? Swords, Sex, betrayal, violence.....animals(hehe j/k on that last one)

[y2k]

The problem is she had a 4 month affair with one of the senior students there. At first I was led to believe it had been a one night stand..and was letting them go to class on alternating days. Now I know she lied and that it was a much more involved affair, with them sometimes skipping class and going to a hotel instead.

I am currently demanding that she discontinue going to this dojo altogether. I cannot handle the worry about whether or not the OM and her are still in contact. This is really hard for her since her Sensei had just invited her to compete in Japan. I would like for her to quit the sport altogether since she will probably see the OM at seminars, conferences, and such (and where she was sexually active with him). This sport has become a pretty important part of her life, giving her self esteem and friends in a state far away from all of our family and childhood friends.

 

She claims this affair is over. I found out about it because she brought it to my attention when she got pregnant didn't know who the father was...she miscarried a week later (I've never seen her in so much pain as that). The problem is she lied about the depth of the affair...and that she seems to put this sport over our marriage. I feel our marriage will end soon because of my demand of her quitting.

 

First, you should have started divorce proceedings the moment you found out. It sounds like she is in love with him.

 

I seriously believe you HAVE to get to your lawyer right now to protect your assets. Keeping a cheating spouse is a fools game. Don't play it!!!!!

 

Should I stick to my demand...and risk losing my marriage? Am I being unreasonable? Should I let her work things out with the OM and alternate classes? I think it would drive me insane. I think the affair happened partially because of how much time she had spent bonding with these people' date=' and being away from me. Of course there are other issues in our marriage that she claims was the root..though at first she told me it was nothing I had done. We have been going to counseling often since November.[/quote']

 

A couple going to marriage counseling equals the beginning of the end of a marriage. Save yourself the time and money and just divorce!!!! Get joint custody of your child and start over.

 

She claims to love me still in some form...but mostly we are just trying to stick it out for our daughter. We manage to parent well together I think...though our daughter is starting to feel some effects of our troubles.

 

This is the reason why I believe people should not "stay together for the sake of the children" because that is just a ticking time bomb waiting to blow up in it of itself.

 

It's the 21st century. Children need parents who are happy, not parents who are forced to stay together when one of them would rather not. You are still the father of your daughter whether or not you are married to your daughter's mother. Same goes with your current wife...she is the mother of her daughter whether she is with you or with someone else. If you can start a mature divorce now, you can set up a mature and reasonable joint custody agreement, and you can create a calm environment where you can explain to your daughter that you and her mother are moving on from each other, but not from her. Communication towards children in a divorce is the key.

 

But in the end of it all my best advice........divorce now!!!! It may be the best thing for EVERYONE. Good luck.

[Artie Lang]

some soap opera huh?? Swords, Sex, betrayal, violence.....animals(hehe j/k on that last one)

 

yeah.....it's quite amusing. good to see you've kept your humor through all the BS surrounding your life.

 

you're a good guy Ninja. it sucks even more when it happens to people like you, my man. stay strong, and stay focused grasshopper.

[2sunny]

I think it's gonna be shameful on you too, if you have had the info and not told the sensei. With holding information is still lying.

 

And I didn't know before it was IN their old building - that takes it to a whole different level (again) of betrayal. It's kinda like having an affair in the marital bed - it shows anger and disrespect to the core!

 

It's disgusting me every time new info comes to light!

 

 

How can you even look at that woman? You call her your wife?

 

I'm mad at YOU now for staying!

 

She's just... SO disgusting! Gross!!!!

[Ninja'sHusband]

I think it's gonna be shameful on you too, if you have had the info and not told the sensei. With holding information is still lying.

 

And I didn't know before it was IN their old building - that takes it to a whole different level (again) of betrayal. It's kinda like having an affair in the marital bed - it shows anger and disrespect to the core!

 

It's disgusting me every time new info comes to light!

 

 

How can you even look at that woman? You call her your wife?

 

I'm mad at YOU now for staying!

 

She's just... SO disgusting! Gross!!!!

Probably shouldn't get drug into a 2sunny argument....! but, not everyone agrees with you. It's been a pretty confusing ride, and I did contemplate telling...even brought all that up on this thread months ago, key and all. People were totally divided on it