Boundary setting question

[Stephanie]

Several posts on this thread have been brought to my attention. Since there is a legitimate conversation happening now, I'm not going to close it for review but I am going to review the thread and clean up as needed.

 

Please keep this on topic and don't reply to any posts that go off topic or are inflammatory. I'm looking at that now.

 

Thanks

[2sunny]

Oh man... I had no idea at her LEVEL of disrespecting you and everyone she stands in front of.

 

And YOU still CHOOSE to have sex with her?

 

How could you?

 

I'm completely appalled at you for participating.

 

This just keeps getting more unbelievable!

 

I'm not so sure it's even real at this point.

 

I don't know anyone who would endure that betrayal.

 

YOU are crazy for staying at this point.

[SandieBeach]

Oh man... I had no idea at her LEVEL of disrespecting you and everyone she stands in front of.

 

And YOU still CHOOSE to have sex with her?

 

How could you?

 

I'm completely appalled at you for participating.

 

This just keeps getting more unbelievable!

 

I'm not so sure it's even real at this point.

 

I don't know anyone who would endure that betrayal.

 

YOU are crazy for staying at this point.

 

 

2Sunny, please stop. Just please stop. You've made yourself very clear, but frankly it's getting over the top. You are now behaving like a bully.

Edited April 22, 2012 by SandieBeach

[2sunny]

Stating how I feel about new (to me) info isn't bullying.

[Try]

Try: How old were you when all that went down?

I was 8 years old when my mom first learned of it.

[2sunny]

NH-

 

How did your wife get accepted to that masters program so quickly?

 

She was expecting to go to a different school - which fell through at the last minute. How does a person just get accepted so quickly and then start classes at such an odd time of year? And she started within a week or two of acceptance...

 

I can't see how she just magically pulled a new school she was accepted to out of thin air.

[Ninja'sHusband]

NH-

 

How did your wife get accepted to that masters program so quickly?

 

She was expecting to go to a different school - which fell through at the last minute. How does a person just get accepted so quickly and then start classes at such an odd time of year? And she started within a week or two of acceptance...

 

I can't see how she just magically pulled a new school she was accepted to out of thin air.

That was actually a weird story. They had a program at another school that wasn't advertised properly. They had the min number of students, W made +1. She was accepted even before she finished her interviews. It was all very last minute. She hadn't even gotten all her test scores and records transferred over when she started. Yeah it was kinda magical actually. In fact i think there's paper work still missing... They let it slide because they need more students so badly.

[2sunny]

The conclusion I've determined is that you're describing to everyone here what no boundary looks like in a marriage.

 

People reading can learn from your lack of a boundary and what a crappy marriage comes when it looks like a person allows himself to be completely disrespected on every level.

 

You are doing this to yourself...it's no longer your wife's fault. You are a victim of yourself by these choices you've made.

 

You do deserve better...I hope some year you will understand that.

 

I participate here to bring hope, normally. I can no longer see any hope that things might change - and when there's no hope - I'm no longer useful.

 

Please remember that change is GOOD... Change brings new hope!

 

 

All the best to you NH!

 

Hugs

Edited April 22, 2012 by 2sunny

[2sunny]

This page may help you with some good info.

 

 

Assertiveness and the Four Styles of Communication

[Ninja'sHusband]

This page may help you with some good info.

 

 

Assertiveness and the Four Styles of Communication

 

This book is also really good:

Amazon.com: Honor Your Anger: How Transforming Your Anger Style Can Change Your Life (9780471668534): Beverly Engel: Books

 

Includes the basic styles, plus a few more.

[BetrayedH]

all your talk is bul**** as you are afraid to leave the bitch .. you aint have any courage to leave .. shame

 

He is showing courage in his patience and restraint. He is acting above those that act for themselves and prioritizing his family above himself. He is the bigger man, he is fighting for his marriage and he should be proud of his efforts. And he is doing it in the midst of a forum of vitriol. This is his choice. Although he could feel justified in doing it, he defers from exacting consequences on his flawed wife. Many have chosen the easier path of divorce. I don't fault them. No one is required to keep their end of the marital contract when the other party has broken it. This man has chosen the harder route of reconciliation and truly honoring his vows of better or worse. In a place where we despise those that don't honor their vows, I find myself humbled in front of someone who truly meant them.

 

Whether you agree with his decisions or not, the man is a betrayed spouse who is in the midst of hell and doing his damnest to recover his family and he is doing it in a selfless way. He doesn't deserve to be insulted.

[Ninja'sHusband]

He is showing courage in his patience and restraint. He is acting above those that act for themselves and prioritizing his family above himself. He is the bigger man, he is fighting for his marriage and he should be proud of his efforts. And he is doing it in the midst of a forum of vitriol. This is his choice. Although he could feel justified in doing it, he defers from exacting consequences on his flawed wife. Many have chosen the easier path of divorce. I don't fault them. No one is required to keep their end of the marital contract when the other party has broken it. This man has chosen the harder route of reconciliation and truly honoring his vows of better or worse. In a place where we despise those that don't honor their vows, I find myself humbled in front of someone who truly meant them.

 

Whether you agree with his decisions or not, the man is a betrayed spouse who is in the midst of hell and doing his damnest to recover his family and he is doing it in a selfless way. He doesn't deserve to be insulted.

 

Thanks Kidd. It brings tears to my eyes to have someone validate my struggle as such. I'm so sorry things didn't work out as such for your family. I know how hard you worked, I still have yet to hit the 9 month mark. Your wisdom has been so helpful. Continue to be strong; neither of our stories are over. Our kids need us.

[BetrayedH]

Thanks Kidd. It brings tears to my eyes to have someone validate my struggle as such. I'm so sorry things didn't work out as such for your family. I know how hard you worked' date=' I still have yet to hit the 9 month mark. Your wisdom has been so helpful. Continue to be strong; neither of our stories are over. Our kids need us.[/quote']

 

I will never understand people that attack a betrayed spouse that chooses to try to save their marriage. God forbid. Do we need to insist upon a rush to divorce to the point where we viciously insult someone that chooses to exercise patience toward the goal of restoring a nuclear family? In the face of so much selfishness that we see here, kudos to you for NOT exercising every right you have to be that way now.

[Wanderer25]

I understand what you mean but I don't agree with this

 

No one is required to keep their end of the marital contract when the other party has broken it. This man has chosen the harder route of reconciliation and truly honoring his vows of better or worse. In a place where we despise those that don't honor their vows, I find myself humbled in front of someone who truly meant them.

 

He chose R which might be harder than D does not mean R is better. At some point R has to stop and the D starts. So my point is that just because he chose R does not mean he is much stronger/better than those that chose D. It is hat works for him and what he decided to endure.

[whichwayisup]

I will never understand people that attack a betrayed spouse that chooses to try to save their marriage. God forbid. Do we need to insist upon a rush to divorce to the point where we viciously insult someone that chooses to exercise patience toward the goal of restoring a nuclear family? In the face of so much selfishness that we see here, kudos to you for NOT exercising every right you have to be that way now.

 

I believe people should be given another chance. I think fighting hard for your family is a good thing, it shows character and strength, a special something that a BS has as they have to be the bigger and stronger person, they have to take it up the rear end ( sorry to be blunt) and keep their mouth shut at times when they just want to lose it and shove the CS out the door. It takes a person with a big heart to want to work through it and give their CS a chance.. But, it makes it MUCH harder when the CS isn't willing to do all that is necessary, isn't showing genuine remorse, isn't making effort. When CS still is selfish and putting their needs above the BS and the family, that's not good. NH is a good egg, and he's doing what he feels is right for the family unit.. though I'm not too sure where his wife stands when it comes to family and saving her marriage..

 

IF a CS cheats again and again, sometimes it's best to let them go, even more so when they aren't wanting to do work on things and they aren't willing to jump through hoops for that second chance.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Steen719]

Maybe some posters have made posts that seem like an attack (and they may be for all I know), but many people have tried to help. I can't imagine that anyone would think it is OK for NH's wife to still be going to the dojo, but maybe you do, BH (AKA Kidd)? She has cheated twice on this man, her OM belongs to the dojo, THEY HAVE HAD SEX IN THE DOJO, and she can't give it up?

 

I cannot believe this is a way for her to help their marriage get back on track. She refused to quit going where she and OM had sex and where she met him, so he decided to go and monitor her behavior. This is like you sitting on your sofa every day...you know what I mean? I gotta tell you. I am one for trying all you can, but even I think this is incredibly selfish of her and to me, it makes me think she wants what she wants regardless of the wishes of her H, who is willing to forgive and loves her enough to stay with her, despite the fact that she has cheated on him at least twice. Is that her showing an effort? I guess NH can answer that, but I want to say that I have never insulted him, intentionally, anyway. I don't agree with him and if he wants just people to agree with him, he probably has figured out that this isn't the right place to be...lol.

[2sunny]

Reacting or not acting out of fear is a hellish way to live (or better yet NOT live).

 

Compromising a persons moral code for the good of a gal who continues to betray and show no remorse is hardly viewed as a win. (from my experience) for me it felt like selling my soul to the devil. But that's what fear does to a person.

 

For a true R to happen BOTH people need to put in at LEAST 100% effort to change the M - and get to a better place - a better understanding of what went wrong - of what they won't ever do the same again - by owning how they participated. By having open and honest ONGOING conversations and actions that always consider how the other person may be affected by their thoughts, feelings and actions.

 

At this point i see 100%+ from NH maybe even 200% - but that's the problem - he's doing that percentage that his W should/could be doing IF she cared enough to repair the damage she caused (and owning her behavior - and being 100% transparent). Since the ratio is so lopsided he's bound to grow resentful while she grows even more entitled.

 

With the situation the way it is - you are determined to stay no matter what cost. Sacrificing self to allow someone to treat you with such disregard isn't healthy, you can expect to become physically ill by betraying yourself that way. And it will be you doing all the heavy lifting in the M while your W goes on about her own way, not doing her share.

 

You doing 200% while she does nearly none is a horrible way to claim to still be married.

 

You said you work with the OM - why? Why would you want to see him at work? I'd be finding a new job as quickly as possible. Even one that takes the family across the country.

 

What some claim as married doesn't look happy or healthy from this vantage point.

 

I was scared of D - but as it turned out its the best thing that happened to me - and no one was more surprised than me! By honoring myself - I no longer have pain, heartache and fear! Freedom from what had a hold on me - the LIES! All those lies that I had to always wonder about! All the manipulation and gas lighting that made me question my sanity!

 

As far as my kids - they are great! They definitely admire me for honoring what was right...they told me to divorce him when they found out it was the second time I caught him. They even called him and yelled at him saying "how could you?" "how COULD you when Mom is always so great and loving to you?" he didn't have an answer! Even they knew in that moment how completely selfish is is! They still know today (7years later) that he will ALWAYS think of HIMSELF before considering how others may be affected by his bad behavior!

 

It sucks when kids know a parent has no moral code!

 

To reward that lack of moral code by turning a blind eye just gives approval to their bad behavior. And yes, her reward is that YOU stay... You stay and pay her way to continue her cheating ways. It may not be happening RIGHT NOW... But she will do it again - SI or without THIS other man...if he isn't participating now - her general nature is to always be searching for her next victim. The one besides you. Yes you are the victim - but you've signed up willingly at this point by allowing her to stay married to you.

 

Maybe you never had a role model for a HEALTHY, HAPPY marriage - maybe you think it should be this way. I don't agree that this is a win at all... And I don't think this is an idea of marriage either when one compromises so much to stay!

Edited April 24, 2012 by 2sunny

[Artie Lang]

Ninja, I have been straight-up with you since the get-go, but also applaude you for wanting to keep your family intact.

 

i noticed this guy(r0bin_h00d) being abusive, and called him out on it before. there is no need for that type of rhetoric.

 

keep up the good fight, Ninja.

[Ninja'sHusband]

You said you work with the OM - why? Why would you want to see him at work? I'd be finding a new job as quickly as possible. Even one that takes the family across the country.

The company I work for is MASSIVE. I've never actually seen or dealt with OM at work in any capacity, though he does work at the same campus and is on the same computer network. The products we work on don't really intersect at all. This is a company with offices all over the world, tens of thousands of people employed just in my area (HQ is here).

[Ninja'sHusband]

Just sent this to WW in email.

 

During my phone session(Harley) last week it was recommended we watch this video:

 

 

ehehe, dunno if she'll make it past the first few minutes...

[2sunny]

Just sent this to WW in email.

 

During my phone session(Harley) last week it was recommended we watch this video:

 

 

ehehe, dunno if she'll make it past the first few minutes...

 

Why are you prompting her to DO anything? She's made it perfectly clear she's gonna do nothing - while you do all the work for both of you.

 

Accept at least that - it's been consistent - yet you just keep at her. She's not willing. She doesn't care enough to change.

[2sunny]

And that video addresses the cheater needs to be willing absolutely to do all the things we've suggested. But she isn't willing to do the basic things he outlines.

 

That's exactly why you expecting the M to recover is fruitless.

 

The only thing to do is accept that it's crappy of her and your willing to live with her bad behavior that continues to hurt you.

[BetrayedH]

I understand what you mean but I don't agree with this

 

 

 

He chose R which might be harder than D does not mean R is better. At some point R has to stop and the D starts. So my point is that just because he chose R does not mean he is much stronger/better than those that chose D. It is hat works for him and what he decided to endure.

 

I don't disagree with any of this. He will have his limits, just like I had mine. In this case, I (personally) think that he's gone the extra mile. Again, I am ot implying a judgment of those that chose to D. However, people being "angry" and villifying him for being such a doormat, cuckold, coward, etc. need to gain some perspective. He is clearly willing to engage in some spirited and intellectual debate over the right path. He doesn't deserve to made to feel like sh*t over it.

[BetrayedH]

What do you believe is the greater insult, being on the receiving end of some contrary opinions on an internet message forum, or being on the receiving end of the conduct of his wife & her attitude, so far, taken as a whole?

 

What his wife has done to insult him is far greater than 1000x every contrary post here could possibly be put together.

 

It's certainly easier to "take a stand" against people who really aren't involved in one's life and just stating opinions.

 

The difference of opinion is that you and OP perceive his reaction to his wife's behavior as being the more "difficult" and therefore more "principled" reaction, whereas others in a different posture, looking from the outside, view his reactions as taking the "less difficult" and "less principled" posture.

 

Maintaining even a very unsatisfactory status quo, can be "easier" if one is used to it. Change, even positive change, can be scary and difficult.

 

If i implied that more difficult means more principled, then I rescind that position. I believe his position is more difficult and more principled. The last thing he deserves is to be insulted by his wife or by anyone on this board.

[BetrayedH]

I also find it extraordinarily unwise for a betrayed spouse who followed along the same overly accommodating path as OP is following, but which resulted in disastrous consequences, can not see why others are discouraging from traveling the same pathway you did.

 

Opinions are one thing. I don't disagree with most of yours and I would likely be handling this much different than the OP and have told him so. I believe his wife needs an ultimatum. He just doesn't deserve to be belittled.

 

As for my situation, I wish I had learned to understand that TT is a norm. I also wish that I had accepted that R takes time and to get a WS to real remorse takes TIME. If I had understood those things, I would still be in a process of reconciling (like NH) and have a chance at real reconciliation (like Spark). I no longer have such an option. OP still does.