Boundary setting question

[turnera]

btw, reading Not Just Friends is NEVER a waste of time.

[2sunny]

Expect her to offer sex to bump you back in your submissive corner.

 

I hope you tell her HELL NO, @itch!

[Bellechica]

Never assume what one will do....There is so much hate here. Please don't assume hate. I agree NH's wife should have done more, but if she wakes up. Give their M a chance

[2sunny]

Never assume what one will do....There is so much hate here. Please don't assume hate. I agree NH's wife should have done more, but if she wakes up. Give their M a chance

 

Belle stop defending her bad behavior. It's that behavior that got him here.

 

Working with the EVIDENCE is a far cry from hate!

 

Her evidence shows she's still resisting being a decent person - you give me one good reason why Ninja needs to live forever with a woman who's not decent to him.

[whichwayisup]

Never assume what one will do....There is so much hate here. Please don't assume hate. I agree NH's wife should have done more, but if she wakes up. Give their M a chance

 

I agree IF she is willing to own her part in this, take responsibility for her bad choices and stop blaming everybody else and start looking at herself in the mirror. She's a broken woman right now, in a fog - A very selfish fog with entitlement. Time will tell if she is capable of change or if this is who she is. Remember, this is her 2nd time cheating and one would think that her past consquences would've been enough so she wouldn't go down the cheating pathway again.. If she is willing to do all required to fix the marriage and herself, then yes, give her a real chance and a shot at the marriage. If she is unwilling, what's the point?

[Ninja'sHusband]

I wish we could create ONE thread that's just full of BH's saying this. Maybe it would make a difference to all the future WHs.

 

btw, we KNEW you would come to this place eventually. You all do. You just usually refuse to listen to us.

Oh come on...when talking to sensei first came up LSers were divided right down the middle on the subject. Then when I was for it, I heard nothing but CHANGE YOURSELF NOT HER, then I was for putting it off and I heard DO IT DO IT DO IT. I finally did it for my own reasons, reasons I had before even starting this thread, reasons I had discussed in IC before starting this thread.

 

 

Belle thanks for your support...but...my WW is actually ahead of you. She at least told me some truth, eventually became transparent. You still need to come clean and go NC, ie get another job! I hope you do those things, so crucial.

[2sunny]

Ninja - what was your chosen words in response to your wife and her email?

[turnera]

Get this: She just sent a NC letter to the OM and CCed me.

 

BUT in the letter she claims she will not quit her MA

 

Tell me what the payofff is in letting her keep seeing OM at MA.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Tell me what the payofff is in letting her keep seeing OM at MA.

?? uhh...none? Not sure I understand. I had nothing to do with that letter she wrote. The subject line was actually "response" but it was only directed to me and OM. I didn't know she was going to send it. I'm not cool with NC being broken EVER, that's what this is all about.

[LifesontheUp]

NH,

 

I really do feel for you, you are going through hell and its starting to look like they have been in contact all along.

 

I remember back to many years ago now when I found out my xH was having his affair. He wouldn't leave her be and I kicked him out. Within a week or so, he came to me begging me to take him back.

 

The reason I am telling you this, is that I think your wife needs to learn and understand what life will be without you. I'm not advocating kicking her out, but instead of making things easier for her, make it difficult. Don't arrange any MC, in fact tell her that you are going to seek legal advice in order to divorce. You don't have to go through with the divorce, but I really think you need to start the ball rolling or otherwise your wife will always believe she can walk all over you without any consequences.

 

Action like this will show her you mean business and it will either give her the kick in the behind she needs to work on your marriage or you will find out exactly where you stand in her life.

 

My xH, who I was with for 18 yrs and whom I still see through work today, has told me that when he found out I had seen a lawyer, it was like a hammer hit him across the head and he realised what he was losing. For him it was too late, as I didn't want him back, and he will forever regret it.

 

I know its frightening NH, but its time for action if you can.

[findingnemo]

I'm so proud of you, NH. Exposing to her sensei and others is a clear sign of you setting a boundary for yourself. Ultimately it's about what you can take, and not about changing your W. There's not much you can do to change her above and beyond what you've done anyway. I'm happy that you did what you felt you needed to do because that decision is made with your whole heart. No lingering doubt or regret.

 

As for her continuing behaviour, you know what I think of her. I doubt she will change for good. This all seems to be a reaction to your actions. It's also good of course because you are moving one step in the forward direction. I will keep suggesting you just do what makes sense to you. Do what benefits you and your daughter. Both of you must go on with life anyway and there's no reason your W's confusion should be allowed to mess that up.

[jwi71]

I hate this. Seriously.

 

Just when I give up and think "NH isn't gonna do anything but hope his WW changes"....NH remembers he has testicles.

 

Well done sir. And, for the record, great letter.

 

What you have done, in essence, is force your W into a public choice. Until the exposure, she had chosen "all of the above" at YOUR expense. You have, set a boundary and most crucially, enforced them. Now, with all this out there, you get to see what your WW values. What she picks is what she values. It's that simple. She no longer is afforded the luxury of "all of the above" at your expense. You have forced change. Or, more precisely, you have told her "all of the above" is a no go and she must change.

 

Ironically enough I think your best course of action short term is.....wait. Be patient.

Sit back and see where the pieces fall. See who values what. See who your friends are. See who your "enemies" are. You must identify the pieces in play and on which side they are on.

 

Carefully watch and listen to your WW. Not in the "prison warden" sense but look for changes in her demeanor. She SHOULD be mourning the loss of her OM and, likely, her MA. Yes, mourning her OM is a GOOD sign. It'll be hard on you no doubt but detachment from her OM is painful for her - look for that depression. It's absence is alarming. As was pointed out by 2Sunny, WWIU and others - one doesn't send an NC letter if the A is over. Those are sent to START NC, not maintain it. She was still, IMO, actively engaged in the A until that point.

 

And that's not uncommon either. WS relapse. It's not neccasarily the end of the M. That's YOUR decision. Personally, I'd implement a few more changes. I'd take her phone. Buy a prepaid one - one designed for children. No, not because she is a child. Because those models often have settings such as:

 

Can only receive calls for an approved caller list.

Can only make calls to the same.

No web or email or text and etc

No access to settings (for her to change the call list, contact, then change the list back)

Etc...

 

Why must you do this? Well you don't really but it DOES remove a means to contact her OM easily. Can you prevent it? No. But if you put up hurdles and she crosses them, well what does that tell you? Hard to accidentally contact him when she needs ten steps to do so.

 

I'd demand weekly MC and IC for all. (I know, you are in now Completely ineffective with OM contact and exposure)

 

Welcome to step one (again) of recover your M from infidelity. Again, not uncommon at all. It's only the end if you (or your WW) want it to be.

 

I hope her fog lifts. I hope you can save your M.

But SHE has to want it. It MUST be her number one goal. Let her actions and choices show you - don't listen to her words. Remember, she is likely to struggle with loss of OM (and likely her MA as well). Perhaps break NC. What are the consequences for such? Look for those to finish over time. The trend should be anger and sadness followed by a recommitting to YOU and your M.

 

If she doesn't, then she's made her choice.

Set boundaries, have consequences for violating them and move forward. Set a drop dead line that if she crosses, the M is over. Clearly articulate such to her, her family (and yours).

 

There are many great posters here. Articles in the web on how to save your M. As I said, you're back to square one (actually, you never really started until just now)

 

Good luck NH

[Ninja'sHusband]

I'll say this once. She has not been in contact with OM. I'm 100% sure of this. There was a time when she was texting him on days when she and I had major milestones (like the day I found the FB conversation or the day I threatened divorce) simply to communicate status. That ended, she no longer texts him, emails, or anything. All her time is taken with school work. she is on an accelerated graduate program that requires a LOT of work. I hear all about her day each day. Neither of them has ever expressed that they were in love or expected the relationship to go anywhere, neither to me nor to each other. I've read their private conversations, in fact from the private conversations my WW was less attached than he was. The thought that they have been in contact recently is ridiculous from my point of view. Any further comments about that will simply be ignored by me, so don't bother

[Ninja'sHusband]

I hate this. Seriously.

 

Just when I give up and think "NH isn't gonna do anything but hope his WW changes"....NH remembers he has testicles.

 

Well done sir. And, for the record, great letter.

 

 

Thanks except for the balls part. Writing the letter and exposing was the EASY thing to do. Persevering and remaining patient was a lot harder. That took balls. I essentially caved, my balls shriveled. I think you guys have a very backwards concept of toughness and bravery. Being angry and vengeful is always the easier thing to do. Being compassionate, patient, loving, especially in the face of adversity is much harder. I've done both in this relationship. I know which took more effort and bravery. Writing that letter and sending is was suuuper easy. NOT writing it and continuing class like I wanted to do would have been much harder.

[SandieBeach]

Thanks except for the balls part. Writing the letter and exposing was the EASY thing to do. Persevering and remaining patient was a lot harder. That took balls. I essentially caved' date=' my balls shriveled. I think you guys have a very backwards concept of toughness and bravery. Being angry and vengeful is always the easier thing to do. Being compassionate, patient, loving, especially in the face of adversity is much harder. I've done both in this relationship. I know which took more effort and bravery. Writing that letter and sending is was suuuper easy. NOT writing it and continuing class like I wanted to do would have been much harder.[/quote']

 

Well, what is done is done, NH...You sent the letter, exposed the affair to more people, and now you'll need to deal with what comes your way. I am with you - it takes cajones to remain calm and rational through an ordeal that makes a person jump off a cliff, and you did show patience for a long time. Personally, I find that admirable.

 

I used to do Tae Kwon Do years ago, and at the end of practice, we all had to recite tenets of TKD: Courtesy, Integrity, Self Control, Perseverance, Indomitable Spirit...I think in that group bunch over there, you were the one who showed those qualities...

 

Go at your pace, trust your head NH. Don't feel pressured by people who had awful experience and are still angry to make dramatic decisions you may regret later...I have a feeling after all is said and done, and if you and your wife do divorce, because of how you handled yourself, you will have peace of mind and be able to move on with your life. I'm pulling for you my friend.

[Owl]

NH...remember though...fighting FOR your marriage isn't easy.

 

From my (our?) perspective, you weren't moving forward along that path at any noticeable pace UNTIL yesterday.

 

You took decisive action...that could have results that you couldn't control. THAT is scarey...that requires balls.

 

Going along passively, accepting what the wife says/does without "rocking the boat"...it's hard on you, but it doesn't require any action, didn't require you to have to use that "set" as much.

 

NOW you're set for change to happen, one way or another. This knocked your wife off of her comfy perch...she's got to make choices, she's got to take actions, or face consequences.

 

This is what we've been hoping you'd do for some time.

 

Remember, I've been where you're at. My wife waffled on her choices for about six weeks as well. It was tough, and I too thought that "giving her space" and "letting her work it out" was the right thing to do...and I too had to get to that same point where I said "enough...the choice is here and now".

 

Glad to see that things are moving for you now. The stagnant rut you were in wasn't forward motion...but I WILL give you credit that it might have shown your wife some good things. It demonstrated your patience and willingness to compromise to her.

 

Now you demonstrated that you're willing to fight for yourself, your family, and your marriage.

 

You'll be amazed to find out how attractive that may end up being to her in the long run.

 

She won't appreciate it today, nor tomorrow, nor next week. But six months from now she may well be thanking you for your actions yesterday.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Well, what is done is done, NH...You sent the letter, exposed the affair to more people, and now you'll need to deal with what comes your way. I am with you - it takes cajones to remain calm and rational through an ordeal that makes a person jump off a cliff, and you did show patience for a long time. Personally, I find that admirable.

 

I used to do Tae Kwon Do years ago, and at the end of practice, we all had to recite tenets of TKD: Courtesy, Integrity, Self Control, Perseverance, Indomitable Spirit...I think in that group bunch over there, you were the one who showed those qualities...

 

Go at your pace, trust your head NH. Don't feel pressured by people who had awful experience and are still angry to make dramatic decisions you may regret later...I have a feeling after all is said and done, and if you and your wife do divorce, because of how you handled yourself, you will have peace of mind and be able to move on with your life. I'm pulling for you my friend.

Exactly, as you, TBK, Kidd, and myself have repeatedly stated, no effort is wasted. If all fails I will know I did all I could before giving up. I couldn't live with myself otherwise. I'm not ashamed of writing that letter, I think it was the right thing to do. I have limits and I hit them, I'm human and can only take so much. All I did was expose truth. So while I would have preferred to have waited until OM came back etc etc.... I still believe in what I did. If I hadn't have done it then, who knows how else my anger would have come out? I was at an absolute breaking point.

[Ninja'sHusband]

...

Glad to see that things are moving for you now. The stagnant rut you were in wasn't forward motion...but I WILL give you credit that it might have shown your wife some good things. It demonstrated your patience and willingness to compromise to her.

 

Now you demonstrated that you're willing to fight for yourself, your family, and your marriage.

 

You'll be amazed to find out how attractive that may end up being to her in the long run.

 

Exactly, I implemented Plan A, and I think I did a decent but not perfect job. It was enough to pull her back from a pretty low and dark place. I think that needed to happen before what I did yesterday. I believe by giving her space we made a LOT of progress. Things changed on her end 100%. It absolutely worked wonders, night and day. Unfortunately it didn't solve the NC issue though and it looked like progress was stopping. That's why I had to do the letter yesterday. To me, this ball has never stopped rolling. Sometimes compassion (which is an action btw, an attitude, small things you do) is the right thing and is harder than anything else.

[BetrayedH]

Exactly' date=' I implemented Plan A, and I think I did a decent but not perfect job. It was enough to pull her back from a pretty low and dark place. I think that needed to happen before what I did yesterday. I believe by giving her space we made a LOT of progress. Things changed on her end 100%. It absolutely worked wonders, night and day. Unfortunately it didn't solve the NC issue though and it looked like progress was stopping. That's why I had to do the letter yesterday. To me, this ball has never stopped rolling. Sometimes compassion (which is an action btw, an attitude, small things you do) is the right thing and is harder than anything else.[/quote']

 

I agree with jw71 about settling down and seeing how things pan out. She has choices to make now. If her actions work for you, great. If they don't consider your next actions. To Owl's point, you have forced change. See now how things change. Some things have been positive: NC letter on her own, scheduling MC. Some things not so good: keeping up the MA (like you, I'm not so sure that fits with NC unless the OM quits). Give it some time to play out; it's not a race. You were still pretty fired up last night but seem more composed today.

 

Any response from the sensei? I imagine he needs some time to process and will want some feedback from the two students.

 

Good luck.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I agree with jw71 about settling down and seeing how things pan out. She has choices to make now. If her actions work for you, great. If they don't consider your next actions. To Owl's point, you have forced change. See now how things change. Some things have been positive: NC letter on her own, scheduling MC. Some things not so good: keeping up the MA (like you, I'm not so sure that fits with NC unless the OM quits). Give it some time to play out; it's not a race. You were still pretty fired up last night but seem more composed today.

 

Any response from the sensei? I imagine he needs some time to process and will want some feedback from the two students.

 

Good luck.

 

Nothing from sensei yet. I doubt I will ever see an email from him, just doesn't seem like his style. Very quiet Japanese guy who speaks broken English. The email I had is for his private business, which he shares with another guy...so it may take a while for him to even get the message. I have my doubts as to whether or not he's even read it yet. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would check email everyday. I expect what will happen is WW will go to class on Friday and we'll learn what happens from there.

 

And yeah I also think he needs time to process. That's part of the reason I wanted to send it earlier in the week. I guess Wednesday doesn't really work, egh, damn, Friday is tomorrow isn't it.... ugh...

[turnera]

You're going tomorrow too, right?

[Ninja'sHusband]

You're going tomorrow too, right?

 

I told her I wasn't going anymore. I might be persuaded to go a couple more times though.

 

OM won't be there. He's on vacation, I can tell because I can see his OOF message @ work. Also there's what OMW said about him not coming to class for weeks.

[Owl]

I don't know if I'd bother showing up for class at this point...unless you have a true desire to learn that art.

 

BUT...

 

I can see a lot of value in showing up early BEFORE class starts and offer to sit and discuss your concerns with the sensei.

[turnera]

That's a good idea - go talk to him.

[2sunny]

Did you ask your W why she sent him the email - especially why send it if he's gone on vacation?

 

It's tiresome that she has this need to protect him ,still, by sending the email that's full of what has transpired in your M.