Boundary setting question

[Trimmer]

Found out the trip away this week was my therapist's suggestion.

This gives me a funny feeling. Obviously if your therapist was BOTH yours and your STBX's therapist, individually, she had to compartmentalize and treat each of you separately. However, I think I would feel like getting a new therapist that wasn't my STBX's therapist too. She may be the most scrupulous, ethical therapist in the world, but I just wouldn't be able to get over the feeling that she was giving my STBX advice to go heal herself, and letting me sway in the wind.

 

Along with the advice that it "wasn't my right" to tell the OM's wife. Again, I'd be left with the feeling that she was defending the position of my STBX at my expense...

 

Again, I'm not claiming she did anything technically wrong - I think I'd just be left with a bad feeling.

 

Yeah great' date=' give her a break and send me into torment. I told my exWW that I had no idea what she was going to come back to, that I would probably drive myself insane. Yup[/quote']

OK, from this point on, you don't share your feelings with her. You don't volunteer anything; if she asks, you are doing fine, and you'll be fine, and you say that in a neutral-to-positive way, not a hostile way. Act, if you have to, but act strong. Let it all out somewhere else, but she is not your confidant, not on your side any more. Not your spouse.

 

She's now the parent of your daughter. Work with her constructively on that basis, but don't give in to the temptation to lean on her or imagine that she will share your burden or empathize with you. You'll need to get that somewhere else. Family, a trusted friend, whatever...

 

As far as your daughter, that's a hard one. Here's one of the first threads I ever started on LS on that very subject, and the advice I got there still feels right today - I hope it gives you some help when it comes time.

[Kidd]

Just had the final M ending conversation with my W or ExW or whatever she is now.

 

She told her parents last week. We are done, she's not going to work on this marriage any more. She won't quit her sport, she knows its unfair to me to keep going. So there's the "yep she values it me than the marriage" She doesn't want to work through the other stuff. It's too late. All the crap reasons I didn't know about that made the affair start..too late to work on them. She held it in, had an affair, ruined my ability to appreciate what she enjoys in life. Yup its over. What a stupid bitch. And I have to coparent with her for the rest of my life. God what hell.

 

Sorry, NH. All I can say is that at least you avoided the 7 months of hell that I went thru trying to reconcile with stupid bitch. Time to switch gears and get to the fun legal and coparenting piece. And yep, rest of your life. My apartment is directly across the street from my "old" subdivision so that I can just as easily do kid pick-up and drop-off for school, etc.. I'm rapidly approaching 10 grand that I've spent in the last two weeks replacing everything I owned in life or handing it to attorneys. And I just started.

[eamherst14051]

Please Lawyer up. Your wife is WAY AHEAD of you on this and you will need a sharp legal mind to cover your butt. Sorry you're going through hell at this point in your life!

[Kidd]

In ten years you will still be a virile highly attractive target of opportunity for nubile young women.

 

And your ex-wife will be old.

 

Thanks to the betrayed spouse weight loss program, I already have plenty of opportunity. It's been nice. My W is still young, attractive, intelligent and professional. She'll do fine in the near term. We'll both have a good second chance at life.

[Steadfast]

There are divorce options that don't cost thousands of dollars. I wrote my own, had it filed by a paralegal for $1800, plus the $375 filing fee. When I presented this option to her my situation was at least as bad as yours. Wifey was sleeping around and otherwise a mess of mass emotions. I asked her "Do you want to spend this on attorneys or keep it?" She had to reason not to trust me, and (after some niggling) OK'd her copy when it came. And speaking of money? Save yours and ditch the therapy. You need a base of friends, family and a desire to be happy. Post here.

 

For now, take a breath and slow down the emotional roller-coaster. Measure your words to her carefully and figure out a plan to isolate yourself from her deal. And while divorce is something everyone should try to avoid, know that it exists for people just like yourself. You have my word that you will see things clearer and rediscover your passions in time. She left you no choice. From this point, think of you and your child first.

 

Sorry this happened, but encouragement is given knowing you'll make it.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

But take a step back and time for what is referred to as the 180. Be a man and don't beg. Start looking out for yourself and ask her if she is 100% sure about what she said.

 

I have been discussing exposure on another site and when you must. Here I definitely think details don't have to be discussed, but telling people what happened is perfectly fair. You have been way too accepting for too long and protecting her.

 

As said the sensei should have been told and same with some family if you needed their help (ie. talk to her). If you separate, definitely why protect her. You both are to blame and were not perfect, but only she had an affair inside a normal sexual marriage.

 

Details are not necessary, outside saying she got too wrapped up in MA and had an affair with another married man and she can't let it go and work to save the marriage.

[Ninja'sHusband]

She does not work, but she has been trying to get accepted into a masters of education program. So she's about to incur a lot of expenses..and have no time for her MA either. Makes it even more ridiculous. Divorce because she couldn't give up her MA, then she'll have no time for it even if she does get the money. My state is no fault D state...so I'll be paying mandatory alimony for sure. I would have supported her anyway, but it'll probably be more than I want to spend. It's gonna really kill me if I know I'm still paying for her MA stuff. I'm reading "Good Divorce" still, and looking up stuff online.

 

Thanks for the effort Tricia, but you still misread tons of stuff. I won't address it all but I will say she's been a complete emotional wreck as much as me. I've seen her bawl her eyes out countless times, lose her temper, shout, once she grabbed my head and shook me. She's pretty scared of the divorce. She knows she's in dire straits.

[whichwayisup]

I will say she's been a complete emotional wreck as much as me. I've seen her bawl her eyes out countless times, lose her temper, shout, once she grabbed my head and shook me. She's pretty scared of the divorce. She knows she's in dire straits.

 

Either she's lying to herself and letting ego/being right take over, or she's totally fooling and lying to herself, it makes no sense unless she has fallen out of love with you and just wants to go on with her life as she pleases. Her reactions and actions about ending the marriage is all over the map!

[turnera]

Holy ****, I didn't expect that. She just texted me that her parents already knew.

 

Wow.

That's probably just her thinking you told them to punish her, so she's taking away your thunder. Don't believe a liar. If FIL didn't tell you he already knew, he probably didn't.

[Kidd]

NH,

 

I sent you a private message.

[Chi townD]

How are you sure she had already told her parents before you did? I mean, when you talked to her father, did he seem surprised? Always remember, if a cheaters lips are moving, they're lying. There could be a possibility that she DIDN'T tell her parents and even if she DID, she on;y gave them half truths.

 

She may be acting so....nonchalant about the end of the marriage, is she might be waiting for you to fold. I mean, she's never seen you stand up for yourself, she doesn't know that you've contacted the OMW, she doesn't know how deep your convictions are running. SOON, reality is going to hit her smack in the eyes. And if this sport is soooo important to her and she wants to go to Japan, if I were you I would apply for full cusodity. She might get alimony, but only for a little while. She has a college degree, therefore, she marketable in the workforce. Dude, it may seem like your world is falling apart, but you're in the driver's seat. And sooner or later, her smug dimenor is going to go away.

 

I would follow up with OMW and see if she's okay or if ahe has any questions for you. Things just seem too quiet over on that front.

[2sunny]

I'd bet money she's been corresponding in some way over the weekend with her OMM.

 

I'd also er she doesn't come home today - as planned - just to try and show you she's in charge and to piss you off.

 

Staying neutral is key - key to making good, solid decisions right now and moving forward.

 

Get busy. You need to do things to protect yourself. Move money so she can't stash "extra" cash for herself. Close credit cards and see an atty as soon as possible.

 

Yes, she should move, but she should also get a job - since she's capable of working! Her school should be postponed - mainly because she made a choice to "change everything" and that includes the luxury of school on your dime.

 

Start outlining YOUR expectations as a separated parent and hand them to her. Having an idea of what you will and won't agree to will help YOU when she starts making you feel "like you owe her" - you don't! Remind her that SHE ended the M and things have now changed. You need to look out for you and your daughter - especially since Mom is ONLY thinking of herself!

Edited February 19, 2012 by 2sunny

[2sunny]

I hope you will let us know how you're holding up... I'm sending you positive energy! Be strong, I know it's really hard...

[jnj express]

Have you dried her up financially---put all the marital assets into an acct. with your name only on it---cancelle any credit card with her name on them, hers seperately, or yours together jointly.

 

Do this immediately, she may wanna go to the dojo---but if she can't pay for the classes/training, and put gas in a car, that is if you still allow her to drive, she can't go to the dojo

 

Tell her as of right now--she is liable for half of each and every bill the mge., will incur---that includes, mtg., car payment, all insurances, food, utilities, her sundries and clothes, are now her own responsibility----you buy what is needed for your child---do not give her ONE PENNY to spend. Also let her know you are dropping her from your health coverage, so she needs to get her own medical insurance.

 

I guarantee you, that will wake her up faster than anything----

 

Right now she is still in her fantasy world, with her MA, her lover, and a H. that supports her----give her a big heaping dose of reality, stop supporting her, watch her change her tune.

 

Make sure you do not leave your home, as that would be labelled abandonment by the court, file for a legal seperation, and drag it out----make her responsible, for the real world,-----I promise you she will come to regret her little sexcapade, for it really is nothing more than infatuation, hot passion, and cheap sex.

[Ninja'sHusband]

She's paid up for the rest of the year already at the dojo...but w/e...if we are divorcing she can do what she wants. I'm not vengeful, that was why I didn't tell the sensei. If she wants to sacrifice me for her MA, fine let her have it. I do still care about her happiness; the thing I hate is that with her affair she destroyed my ability to appreciate what she loves most in life, thus destroying our marriage.

 

Also The OMW knows. I'm pretty sure STBXW(finally figured that acronym out lol) knows the OMW knows now. I haven't heard a peep from OMW or OM...but STBXW was suuuuppppperrrrr pissed when she came home, frantic, teary. She was talking to someone in the garage whom she claims was her parents, might have actually been...but I'm pretty suspicious. Haven't got a chance to look at her phone, prbly don't need to. I think the OM told her about the reveal and that's why she was sooo pissed. When we had talked before that day, she hadn't been angry sounding at all. She could have also been pissed cause my phone call to her father kicked in. I had told both her dad and her sister about my requirement for getting back in the marriage. Her Dad sounded like he was going to discuss it with her. I have no idea what he actually said. I know she spent most of the day talking to everyone on the phone. Probably was a really ****ty day for her. Consequences.

 

Oh and a couple points. FIL definitely knew already. When I told him there was noooo surprise in his voice at all. He was very prepared for that conversation. Stark contrast to when I told her sister back in October. She was completely shocked, I've never heard her sound so shocked since I've known her. She repeated over and over, "<name> I had no idea, I had no idea" and I believe her.

 

Oh and for the money, cmon guys, as much crap as has gone on...I don't plan on starting a financial war. I absolutely don't want to go through that. Sick sick sick. We are going to take our time and settle this the cheap and amicable way(mediation). I actually think once we get all this infidelity and expectations of us being a true romantic couple out of the way, we'll be pretty good coparents. We can still shoot the **** and be fun around our daughter. Even tonight there was peace when she finally calmed down from whatever she was so enraged about (probably me telling the OMW) She won't tell the truth on that though, cause yeah, she'll have to admit talking to the OM. I don't think she's talked to him much, but this would be an obvious time they would converse behind my back. Especially since we are pretty clearly D-ing now.

 

But anyway, I want to hire a mediator and do as little lawyer stuff as possible. I don't mind supporting my STBXW for a while. She has been an excellent mother for 9 years, and has been a housewife for 11 now. She's given me a lot, even though it's ended badly... And yes I know, if she was a better W, she'd be a better mother. This is gonna tear our family apart. I made that real clear to her this morning on the phone. "If you wanted to do the best thing for <daughter>, you'd work it out with me and not destroy our family." But no, that road is closed.

 

It's all about my daughter now, and we need to do this separation right. Been reading "Good Divorce" and they stress taking your time and figuring things out really clearly before anyone walks out the door. I'm determined not to traumatize our daughter anymore than we have to. It's gonna be devastating as it is with out a bloody war going on over finances and custody. STBXW has assured me she's not trying to steal my daughter away. She's told me many many times she would never do that over the last 3 months. She could very well take her across the country to my inlaws place, but is not doing that.

 

Anyway, that's the update. Maybe we'll have some relative calm around here since we get to stop fighting for what we want from an impossible marriage. Hopefully the negotiations on custody and money go ok..it'll be hard but I have some hope. She's not evil incarnate you know...even though I think people here tend to think of all WSs that way.

[seren]

NH, kudos for you trying to sort it all out with as little drama as possible for your child. However a word of caution, when my XH and I divorced many moons ago, there was no acrimony, no A, just two people who had very different ideas of what marriage and parenting was all about, we discussed at length how we would manage it all and still it went off course once he met someone else with a small child and stopped seeing our son, stopped payments for child support and had someone whispering in his ear about what he should be doing.

 

It is wise to make sure that everything is done with the courts having your back, that goes for both of you, it also goes for everything to do with parenting and custody. While it all sounds thought out, even the best laid plans etc can go pear shaped after the dust, guilt and all has settled down. However, I applaud your sense of decency and doing what is right for your situation. I hope it all works out for you.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I wish you the best, but still think you are in a fog and are too concerned in protecting your wife.

 

The sensei should know, and frankly if you divorce, why would you hide the reason why?

 

I don't get it. Yep maybe you were unhappy and couldn't work through problems, but she cheated, and why should that be hidden?

 

I still do not understand why the sensei does not know what is happening in his dojo, which as far as I know with MA is certainly frowned upon. Relationships within a dojo, sure, why not. Affairs though are unacceptable, especially in a place where there is contact and can affect otheres too.

[Ninja'sHusband]

From what I understand MA fees would not be included in an alimony payment calculation. So I don't think the law requires me to support that activity. TBH the law will probably make me pay more than I want to, and like you said, it's temporary. I don't have enough money to duplicate our current house, we'll both have to downsize of course.

[2sunny]

I do agree with separating money and giving her very little.

 

What it does do - is force her into a cold, hard reality. It's takes money to live... And she.needs to work now that she's made her choice. She also has a consequence of her choice.

 

If nothing else has made her get humble - living in reality might! The more you provide for her, the more she's still going to be piased and show you that big ego she has - that sense of entitlement.

 

You've placed er on a pedestal, you've spoiled her. She expects you to keep doing that while she stabs you in the back. Don't participate in any of it! She needs to find a way to work and support herself...SHE needs to get with the real world. You being "supportive" will only cost you more when you go to the mediator.

 

Her dreams are toast! The pedestal is gone! She ruined anything that was possibly good when she cheated... And now wants to continue cheating.

 

Yep - I'm sure she was in communication with her OMM over the weekend! I'm sure she'll try to blame you for that too - IT'S HER FAULT! Keep in mind, there would be nothing to tell IF she hadn't cheated - so YOU are the only one willing to give your truth.

 

She is not the woman/wife you thought she could be.

 

Look out for YOU and your daughter... There's no reason to engage her with conversation right now - any convo she might be willing to have is designed to get her way/ or get SOMETHING more out of you.

 

How's the mood from her OMM today, is he at your work today?

[2sunny]

And remember -

 

Her being suuuuper pissed? That was because you did the right thing (exposure) - and she's "protecting" her OMM and THAT is the woman you loved as YOUR WIFE! She's not who you thought! Her alliance is to her OM! She's pissed because now she understands SOMETHING will change - and HER plan was for all her escapades to continue without notice - in secrecy - by USING YOU MORE - and you just changed all that by revealing her truth of what SHE has created by cheating! The truth hurts sometimes! She needs to OWN her truth - but she won't - she just acts super pissed at you! She should be mad at HERSELF for creating it!

 

That is where she is backwards! Don't ALLOW her to blame YOU for ONE SECOND!!!!!!

[Toodamnpragmatic]

If I was paying good money for my wife to have martial arts lessons, and she was skipping the lessons I paid for to have sex with one of the instructors, I sure as heck would tell that sensei and ask for my money back.

 

He's supposed to be running a karate dojo not a stud service for middle aged wives going through mid life crisis.

 

 

 

To me the most irritating thing about reading NinjaH's reasoning is his false rationalization that he's acting in his daughter's best interests by continuing to enable his wife. I would really like to know how his unemployed wife spending his money on karate lessons and traveling around to be with her OM, literally taking the bread out of his own daugther's mouth, is beneficial to his daughter.

 

He is still holding out false hope that if he's accommodating to her she will change her mind and not divorce him. I'm not saying the 180 would bring her back to him--she's a lost cause--but whatever he's doing is pretty much the opposite of the 180. He just doesn't want to believe that being accommodating to a cheater is never the way to go.

 

This is not about getting even or the money, just about the code of conduct and ethics in the dojo. The sensei at worst will say it is none of his business. At best he will ask one to leave. At this point the back and forth about japan in nauseating.

 

However if he really thinks 100% the marriage is over (which was not the case 2 days ago) then I guess he can say nothing, because she is paid up through the end of the year (talk about a sad excuse to keep his mouth shut).

 

But regardless of what NH says (and his screen name is telling too) I am sure he wishes for R, and in that case he has to talk to the sensei and have the decision there taken care of.

[2sunny]

Her Dads reaction - did HE cheat too? Makes you wonder...

 

Know for sure his alliance is for his daughter = best not to give him any info!

 

Where is her Mom in all this?

 

The fact that her Dad stayed SILENT when he COULD have taken a stance on THE RIGHT THING tells everything. He will reward his daughters bad behavior by not speaking up about it being totally wrong!

 

She LEARNED it from HIM!

Edited February 20, 2012 by 2sunny

[Binster]

I know you dont want a row over the D, but lawyer up and play safe.

Get the best deal for yourself you can cos you really cant trust your wife to play fair.

Your gonna be a long time divorced.

 

Good look , sorry it didn't work out.

[drifter777]

NH: I'm sorry your situation has so quickly gone down the toilet. I guess that since you waited a few months before posting here, you must have felt that things took a hard turn toward seperation & divorce when you started this thread. You did a good thing coming here to get feedback regarding your situation and how you should proceed. I think some of us felt a sense of urgency, which may account for many of the harsh comments that have been posted here.

 

You may feel like you are reaching some sort of final resolution - namely divorce, but you will still have some emotional hurdles on the way. Nothing proceeds smoothly from this point on and I would advise you to stay in touch with us here at LS as long as you continue the emotional rollercoaster.

[Owl]

Or...she's not a "groupie" at all, but someone who got emotionally and physically "tangled up" with someone she shared time and energy with in the same hobby/sport.

 

Usually the "groupies" you refer to aren't normally part of the sport. They're peripheral to it.

 

Seems like you're going really hard out of your way to make the situation appear worse than the OP has posted. I'm curious...why?