Defense Mechanisms

[marqueemoon4]

So, now that my epic thread is dead and hopefully locked soon.. I wanted to discuss what really terrifies me about "relationships".

 

I found out the hard way that my ex wife's "defense mechanisms" are as follows:

 

-silent treatment

 

-cheating

 

-lying

 

-blame shifting

 

-cutting all contact and never looking back

 

-complete lack of empathy/caring

 

-immediately jumping into another serious relationship to avoid being alone

 

-totally rewriting history to assuage guilt

 

 

My main defense mechanisms?

 

-guilt/sarcasm/insult (something I'm really working on)

 

-intelligence

 

 

Sadly I find alot of women are exactly like my ex wife, will do anything to avoid taking any responsibility for THEIR actions while crucifying you for yours. You would believe that my exW never did anything wrong in 8yrs with me.

 

And the really scary part? You never know exactly what your bf/gf/spouses defense mechanisms are UNTIL ITS TOO LATE.

 

Another thing I learned from this ordeal-- APPARENTLY as long as you're happy NOW that means any horrible things you did in the past don't matter... ie cheating/lying/manipulation etc. I wish I had known thats what the rule we were playing by.

Edited February 16, 2012 by marqueemoon4

[ThatDudeXO]

I don't know which is worse. When my partner hurt me, my defense mechanism is to insult, insult and insult, which from what I have learnt is a no go!

 

My ex partner is the same as yours minus the cheating and moving on to another relationship.

 

The ignoring, the not caring, the blame shifting and cutting all contact is what most independant women do and it hurts like hell. It's as if the years of love and commitment meant nothing.

 

The key is to not use those defense mechanisms because it's when you use them that you really ruin all hope.

[Sugarkane]

It's not just women, my ex did exactly the same thing and he's a bloke.

[Exit]

Hah that list sounds just like my ex. She had a rough childhood so I can understand having a lot of defenses built up and learning to rely on them, but I spent a lot of time during the relationship asking her to "please let me in" and not subject me to these tortures. Guess it never worked. The silent treatment used to hurt me so badly and it wasn't until after the breakup that I was made aware that this is a form of abuse. Now that we're broken up, the blame shifting and the rewriting of history has taken over. There's no way to win with these type of people.

[marqueemoon4]

It's not just women, my ex did exactly the same thing and he's a bloke.

 

Sugar.. yea you're absolutely right. This isn't just a female thing.. I'm sorry for insinuating that. When I reread my post I noticed I came off as really sexist. It definitely goes both ways.. men certainly do it too. Sorry if I offended you.

 

Also, what I've realized is as a kid I had both parents and got OVER parented.. my exW had hands off do whatever you want, you're on your own type parenting, and her parents were divorced when she was very young. Not only that her dad (by her description) was an abusive monster and abandoned her. Not sure if it was by her mothers choice or his, but she has MAJOR daddy issues. This is also why she wanted an older man (me).. I also believe since her father died 4yrs ago or so, she is taking out her resentment on me. So messed up.

Edited February 17, 2012 by marqueemoon4

[worldgonewrong]

Relate & agree to everything written here.

[marqueemoon4]

Hah that list sounds just like my ex. She had a rough childhood so I can understand having a lot of defenses built up and learning to rely on them, but I spent a lot of time during the relationship asking her to "please let me in" and not subject me to these tortures. Guess it never worked. The silent treatment used to hurt me so badly and it wasn't until after the breakup that I was made aware that this is a form of abuse. Now that we're broken up, the blame shifting and the rewriting of history has taken over. There's no way to win with these type of people.

 

Man, this is exactly what I said to exW for years.. even before we were married.. like PLEASE baby let me in. I'm not here to hurt you. She had her walls up with everyone. She was never gonna let me in and I started resenting her for that. I wanted to connect with her on the deepest, most intimate level but she was and I'm sure is still incapable of that.

 

Another one I just thought of..... projecting HER issues onto other people. Wow, so incredibly dirty. She'd accuse me of having a "selective memory" when she was clearly rewriting history for her benefit. The hypocrisy is staggering.. but oh well. I can't do a damn thing about it.

Edited February 17, 2012 by marqueemoon4

[CopingGal]

So, now that my epic thread is dead and hopefully locked soon.. I wanted to discuss what really terrifies me about "relationships".

 

I found out the hard way that my ex wife's "defense mechanisms" are as follows:

 

-silent treatment

 

-cheating

 

-lying

 

-blame shifting

 

-cutting all contact and never looking back

 

-complete lack of empathy/caring

 

-immediately jumping into another serious relationship to avoid being alone

 

-totally rewriting history to assuage guilt

 

 

My main defense mechanisms?

 

-guilt/sarcasm/insult (something I'm really working on)

 

-intelligence

 

 

Sadly I find alot of women are exactly like my ex wife, will do anything to avoid taking any responsibility for THEIR actions while crucifying you for yours. You would believe that my exW never did anything wrong in 8yrs with me.

 

And the really scary part? You never know exactly what your bf/gf/spouses defense mechanisms are UNTIL ITS TOO LATE.

 

Another thing I learned from this ordeal-- APPARENTLY as long as you're happy NOW that means any horrible things you did in the past don't matter... ie cheating/lying/manipulation etc. I wish I had known thats what the rule we were playing by.

 

Believe me, there are tons of men out there that are like that too. My ex only took responsibility for things when he had an agenda...other than that...no. He would do terrible, deceptive things to me and then blame me for it. For example...my ex told me, if I had just hung in there a little longer, he would have welcomed me more into his life. Before I left him he was lying to me all the time, cheating on me, ignoring me, and treating me like garbage...he wanted me to be more patient with him while he ignored me almost every single night:o

[Exit]

Man, this is exactly what I said to exW for years.. even before we were married.. like PLEASE baby let me in. I'm not here to hurt you. She had her walls up with everyone.

 

.. but oh well. I can't do a damn thing about it.

 

Yup. Not long before I got dumped I made another attempt to ask her to let her guard down, wrote her a letter and told her if we talk about marriage all the time that we need to work harder on really having some intimacy in our relationship because we were NOT relating on the level of two people who were considering a future together. I thought I was doing the right thing to tell someone that I really wanted to know them on a deep level... but who knows, maybe for people who can't handle intimacy it comes across as a threat.

 

The worst thing is that the best we can do is try to have the "oh well, can't do anything about it" attitude. There is NO validation from these people. No closure. No empathy. Sucks to get treated like dirt, sucks even more when the person doing it to you won't even admit to it.

[marqueemoon4]

 

The worst thing is that the best we can do is try to have the "oh well, can't do anything about it" attitude. There is NO validation from these people. No closure. No empathy. Sucks to get treated like dirt, sucks even more when the person doing it to you won't even admit to it.

 

I had seen this in other LTRs I had... and it was something that terrified me. Being attached to someone who can detach and move on after years and never look back because I know that when I get to a certain level its incredibly hard for me to detach. She wanted to be with me so badly she promised over and over that she was incapable of doing this. Swore she would never abandon me, that I would always have a say in whether we were going to split. She also acted all scared that I was going to leave HER, which led me to believe she understood the pain of doing that to someone. Well, when it all came down to it she did exactly what she swore she would never do, and in the worst way possible. All behind my back, all betrayal, all lies, cheating, and then moves on in like 6mos of separation. Its been 1yr and 9mos and I'm still totally messed up over it. Shes pregnant, engaged, and getting married soon. W.T.F.

[Exit]

Yup I can relate to that too. Before she dumped me when we'd have disagreements my ex started to have episodes where she'd burst into tears and say stuff like "oh god I'm losing you". Couple weeks later she's the one who's done, moving on, never made contact, nothing. Those times when she was crying seemed really unusual for her, not that I liked seeing her upset but it actually felt good for once, in the sense that she hardly ever made it seem like I meant anything to her, so to see her that upset about it at least made me feel cared about. Just lulled me into a false sense of security I guess, seeing someone distraught over the thought of losing me certainly didn't make me think they'd be leaving relatively soon. Always told me we'd be together forever. When we got through a rough patch in our relationship last year she told me she'd never waste both of our time and effort in getting things back on track if she didn't fully intend on marrying me. I guess some people are just comfortable with lying. We'll never understand.

[Emilia]

The worst thing is that the best we can do is try to have the "oh well, can't do anything about it" attitude. There is NO validation from these people. No closure. No empathy. Sucks to get treated like dirt, sucks even more when the person doing it to you won't even admit to it.

 

Yes. What I have got from experiences like this however is that I don't see it as being treated like dirt, more that the other person has shown their true colours and turned out to be low quality. I see it as a reflection of their character, rather than dwell on how it affects me, if you see what I mean.

[Exit]

Yes. What I have got from experiences like this however is that I don't see it as being treated like dirt, more that the other person has shown their true colours and turned out to be low quality. I see it as a reflection of their character, rather than dwell on how it affects me, if you see what I mean.

 

Yeah, I need to work on seeing it from this perspective. My self esteem is suffering a bit lately. I need to realize she's the one who revealed herself to be of low quality and not that I am.

[Philosoraptor]

If you want to avoid all of these defensive mechanisims you need to find someone a bit more mature. These types can talk about things in a positive manner and actually work through issues.

[Emilia]

Yeah, I need to work on seeing it from this perspective. My self esteem is suffering a bit lately. I need to realize she's the one who revealed herself to be of low quality and not that I am.

 

She would eventually behave this way with everyone so it's not discrimative, it's not a reflection on your personality.

[marqueemoon4]

She would eventually behave this way with everyone so it's not discrimative, it's not a reflection on your personality.

 

I've been told this by many people.. I guess what really causes me pain is that I had a feeling my exW was immature and cold hearted, but she told me otherwise and I believed her. And considering she only took a few months off between our 8yr relationship before she moved in with this other guy, there is no way she could've improved herself or figured anything out. Maybe things will work out for them, who knows. Its not my concern but I still struggle with it.

[jyoun]

My defense mechanism seems to be to try and comfort the person who is hurting, and that sometimes back fires as it can easily be seen as condescending.

 

I also do the silent treatment thing, but mostly because I feel like I'm walking on egg shells so I want to be extra extra careful about what I'm going to say, to try and minimize any false interpretations. Again, it doesn't always work to a positive outcome.

 

I'm still working on balancing it all out and learning from my mistakes and just being a mature person in general. I never get angry, it seems. Things that would make a normal person angry just makes me more sad and quite. I've gotten scolded badly for not acting normal in this regard. I just don't see the point in getting angry, and would rather calmly talk things through.

[marqueemoon4]

All this talk on these boards about CARING being DESPERATE. Hmm... yea maybe if you only went out for a few months or a year or something.. fine. Being clingy and needy after that is DESPERATE.

 

But to all those people who were married and with their exes for years (8 in my case) AND have a child or children, its not DESPERATE to want to save your family. Its not DESPERATE to want your child(ren) in your life every day. It's not WEAK to have special emotions/feelings for the mother or father of your child. Its not WRONG to want to right things and make amends for your mistakes. That is the RIGHT way to feel. If the other party doesn't see that THAT IS THEIR PROBLEM, not yours.

 

Games. Lies. Dependency. Selfishness. The cornerstones of so many "relationships" out there. No thanks.

[marqueemoon4]

I don't ever talk to my exW. The fallout of her leaving and the divorce has crippled me in ways I can't even comprehend. My credit was almost 800 before now its in the mid 5s. I have crazy debt where I had none before. I'm facing foreclosure on the condo I've lived in since 03. I miss my son and am on the hook for at least $750 a month for child support for the next 13yrs. My relationship with my parents is strained at best whereas before it was solid. All my friends who used to respect me and think highly of me know I'm broken.

 

I have changed tremendously in the last 1.5yrs.. I will say that I'm not proud of the way I was before the separation.. things had gone so well for me for so long, I let my ego get the best of me and I thought I was invincible. I couldn't see that having a wife and child was the base of my self esteem, and how selfish I had become. My insecurities caused poor behavior on my side.. deep down I knew I was with the wrong person and felt trapped. I judged everything I came across instead of looking in the mirror. I made assumptions thinking since I was over 40 I knew so much. I find I don't know sh*t about alot of things.

 

Good things? Well.. I keep my mouth shut about most things now.. I'm no longer openly opinionated. I appreciate even the smallest positives that happens to me. I love my son more than life itself, and we are so close even though I don't see him nearly enough. I used to love hockey, it was a large part of my life but I find I don't care so much anymore. I discovered soccer again and I absolutely love it. I started following my favorite team again (Arsenal) over a year ago, and like life its up/down but there is so much to learn and keep up with. Its something I can share with my son, he loves playing and I want to get him involved in the game soon, and be involved as one of his coaches. I used to be a major music snob and now I listen to completely different stuff.. mainly electronic. I dress about 100x better and I'm going to the gym and eating way better. I still smoke about a pack a day and my next goal is to knock that off once and for all. I got a massage last week from a woman I met at a bar. It was my first "real" massage.. and it was incredible. Kinda ridiculous since I was with a massage therapist for 8yrs. One of the many things I thought wasn't for me but in reality I was wrong (again).

 

It feels like I'll never meet the right person for me, and after everything I've been through I definitely have trust issues. I think I know what I want in a partner but I do worry I'll never find them. All I can do is better myself because wow, there is very little in life you really have "control" over. I'm done hating my exW because while having a child with her and marrying her turned out to be the worst decision of my life, there is nothing I can do to fix anything between us or change the past.

 

Maybe she really cared about me at some point, but thats long gone. Unlike alot of people on this forum, she will never be back. She will never admit that her role in things caused so much pain and devastation because she is "happy". Will karma come back on her? I don't think so.. bottom line is she isn't trustworthy, and would screw anyone over if she thought it would benefit her. I believed her when she told me she was "different" I wanted to trust 100%, and in the end got burned badly because of it. Any interaction with her is strictly for her benefit so there is no point in communication with her unless there is something pressing that need to be done in regards to our son.

Edited February 28, 2012 by marqueemoon4

[worldgonewrong]

Reading your post above, MM4, makes me proud of you. You're still working from the ground-up, but damn, your head is definitely in a different place -- more philosophical, more thoughtful. I really respect you a lot.

[marqueemoon4]

thanks for the kind words buddy.. I'm impressed with the strides you've made as well. Without a doubt this is the worst thing I've ever been through and I'm sure its the same for you. I'd be lying if I said my anger and resentment isn't off the charts.. because it is. I don't know whats going to fix that.. because the way things are now I find "happiness" an impossibility. Realistically all I can hope for on a daily basis is getting through the day without more bad things happening right now. And those days are few and far between.

 

Does this sound familiar:

 

Opportunism is the conscious policy and practice of taking selfish advantage of circumstances – with little regard for principles, or with what the consequences are for others. Opportunist actions are expedient actions guided primarily by self-interested motives. The term can be applied to individual humans and living organisms, groups, organizations, styles, behaviours, and trends.

Edited February 28, 2012 by marqueemoon4

[marqueemoon4]

exW text me last night saying my son fell and hit his head at chik fila. sent me a pic of the huge knot/bruise on his head. she and om took him to emergency care and they said to monitor him for 24hrs.

 

my response? glad he is ok.

[marqueemoon4]

I wrote this. I'm not sending. Feedback?

 

"A-

 

I feel the need to clear some things up.. I don't expect anything in return and I can hear you saying "I don't know what you want me to say", but I need to put this down. I sincerely hope you have the decency not to use this against me, please read this without anger and judgement. There are no ulterior motive. I realize no matter what I do in your eyes nothing will ever change between us. You obviously have taken huge steps to keep that from happening.

 

I understand your defense mechanisms.. I know you had a very hard life growing up. I know you felt alot of pain because of your home life. A, I know it wasn't easy. I know you loved your father but he let you down and was really messed up and hurt you terribly. I know your mother did her best under horrible circumstances, trying to raise your brothers and you. I'm so sorry for not being more sensitive about that, in fact being a complete ass about it. I'm sure I looked like a spoiled jerk to you who didn't appreciate how easy I had it compared to you. I know A.. you wanted a healthy, non dysfunctional family more than anything, because you suffered so much when you were younger. I wanted it to, it was my dream. You thought an older guy like me would give you that.. and as much as I wanted to, I was struggling to do so. I believe you loved me, but I just kept letting you down. I'm so sorry that I made it so the only way you could get through to me was by leaving me. That was MY defense mechanism, because obviously like you I hate being hurt and I had put myself in a position of vulnerability. You felt you had no other choice but to leave. I'm sure you struggled with that decision for months. Yes it hurts you felt the need to reach out to people behind my back to do this. Contrary to what you think, I was happy you met friends at work and they treated you understanding and kindness. I honestly wasn't jealous at all.. I knew it wasn't healthy for everything to revolve around me. I get that they had similar interests as you.. where to you it looked like we had very little in common. I know you didn't want me to judge them and be a snobby jerk because you liked them. At the time I felt like, wow she's embarrassed of me? Why won't she introduce me to her friends? It hurt, but I know why you did it. I would guess you talked to them all the time and said my husband is a jerk and I can't relate to him anymore. Things aren't going well and I feel trapped. I remember when you told me, and no I'll never forget this.. that you and D were there for me but I had to be nicer to you guys. I had no idea at the time how close you were to leaving for good. I'm sure you were absolutely floored that I didn't respond to that. I couldn't see what the hell I was doing.

 

Yes its the past. 2002-2010 happened. I know you think the only good thing that came out of those 8yrs is D. Again, if thats how you feel I can't change that. I feel we met for a reason. I proposed to you 100% on my own, you didn't push me for it, and no one else did either. It was my choice all the way. I loved you so much.. I truly wanted to spend the rest of my life taking care of you and D, making sure you had the good things in life and never wanted for anything, to protect you. All the dumb things I focused on towards the end, wow they mean nothing. They were hobbies, diversions. I honestly didn't know how to get through to you either. Its funny you took shots at me months back saying go play your video games or wash your car. I can see where you'd think that.. but I pride myself on trying to learn from failures, not continue them. Yea, video games are a complete waste of time. I haven't bought a record or cd since May '10. I don't really care about cars at all anymore. Honestly I'm not really into hockey anymore. I'm not telling you this to impress you, its just the truth. Yes, I was so over opinionated and shot my mouth off about alot of things I didn't fully understand. I'm not proud of that. The after effects of that are I pretty much keep my mouth shut. I've been humbled beyond belief, and thats a good thing. I do my absolute best not to judge anything if I can avoid it. I don't like conflict. Like you, no one likes being made a fool of, or the feeling of being tricked or suckered. I will re-emphasize that in our time together I honestly never cheated on you, nor did I ever lie to you. Yes, I may have got some things wrong or forgotten things, but I never in my recollection lied to you, straight up. You would always say I had a selective memory.. this was NOT a conscious decision I made. There is this thing called "gaslighting".. its when your partner denies things from the past mainly with the intention of making their spouse/gf/bf crazy and to avoid responsibility for their words/actions. I can see where you thought I was doing this, again, there was no intent, ever to do that. I always tried to keep it as real as humanly possible, to a fault.

 

Yes, it horrifies me to see you pregnant with another mans child. No, I don't like it when you call my love for my son or my ability to take care of him into question. Anyone would feel this way. Please understand A.. I couldn't let go because I didn't want to lose my son and family, and also because I saw all kinds of terrible things coming my way. Maybe to you it seemed like I was the boy who cried wolf, but I knew in my gut disaster was coming. Its an incredibly helpless feeling to know this, and not be able to do anything about it. I wish I could've been like "sure" and walked away like you did. I couldn't, and it just kept getting worse and worse. Through lack of communication on both sides it was ruined. I did my best for 8yrs never to force you to do anything you didn't want to do. It felt like this is what you wanted, like that was your only out. I know, to assuage guilt its much easier for you to make me out like I'm a terrible person, incapable of self introspection, unable to better himself and someone who will never change. You've made (OM) your knight in shining armor and I'm the monster he saved you from. This is exactly what you did with your bf before me.. he was the abusive jerk who wrecked your self esteem and you looked to me to reverse all of that. Its a pattern. I know you're smart and deep down you know this, but you'll keep it to yourself. Maybe he is the right person for you? Maybe its totally forced and you both were in a major time of need and you'll find out later it was a huge mistake? I guess time will tell. I can tell you as a man having our son live with another man is about the worst thing that can possibly happen. I think you know that you saying "we're a family here" and rubbing it my face was about the cruelest, most heartless thing you could say to me. I guess the good thing is at this point there is nothing else you can do to hurt me. I wonder to myself how I could mess up so bad and how you despise me so much that you would derive pleasure by causing such emotional trauma. I assume you feel the exact same way about things I did/said to you. But, no matter what I always care about you, whether I like it or not. Putting you above other women because your my sons mother is not desperate, its exactly how a person is supposed to feel, and thats been validated by both therapists I saw. Thats normal and natural. It would be like me telling you you can't love dancing or massage therapy. Killing real feelings that exist or lying to myself is extremely difficult. Maybe its a skill I failed to learn growing up, I don't know. Obviously I need to protect myself and continue to focus on myself and becoming a better, more tolerant, patient, and loving person. People are a work in progress and everyone has their issues. I was pretty naive I guess in thinking you and I would always be together and never end up like this. I knew nothing of the pain and suffering divorce caused, because I was never close to it or knew anything about it. I get that you were trying to warn me but honestly, there was know way of me knowing what it entailed. I didn't know that being an ex husband meant that I would be hated and reviled and blamed for everything. Thats the Gods honest truth.

 

I know what I am and what I'm not. My bad behavior for a few months doesn't define me as a human being, and I think you know this too. I know its counter productive to what you're trying to do to cut me the least bit of slack, but thats your decision. I know at my core I'm a good person who would do anything to help another human in need. I thought you knew that, but apparently you didn't. You said awhile back that if I thought you and I could ever be fixed that I was "clueless". Thats a big difference between you and I.. I believe that anything can be fixed, and I believed our family was worth fixing at any cost. I thought I deserved a legit chance, since I had finally come to the conclusion that the main problem was ME, not you. The problem wasn't even US, it was me. Its funny because for years you were always trying to make me believe our time together and our memories were so important. Now you act like it meant nothing and what you have today is so much better. Maybe it is, and if so I'm glad you're happy. Unfortunately I know no matter how great things are for you today its still not good for Derik to be away from his mother or his father for extended amounts of time. I know your position is that he'll get used to it.. its what his reality will be but as you know coming from your background he will never be able to be completely happy.

 

I'm sorry for txt about the massage.. it was something I never thought I'd do and it left such a positive impression I really wanted to share. Yea, I feel like an idiot for not figuring that out while we were together. Oh well, at least I've found an avenue to relax and feel better so its a positive. I know they say time heals all wounds, I hope someday that happens. You asked way back what I wanted from you. All I've ever wanted from you since I met you almost 10yrs ago was for you to care about yourself and me, and you did for a long time. I guess you never will again. I hate being the enemy, thats never what I wanted. I can honestly say that making you and D happy and being there for you guys gave me purpose and was a large part of my self esteem.

[worldgonewrong]

Your would-be letter is very mature and compassionate. It shows a lot of thoughtfulness. And clarity of mind.

 

that said, you're right: don't send it. At this stage in the ballgame, it would be wasted on her. And her lack of reply or lack of reciprocated thoughtfulness would only do more harm than good in terms of all the slow, good strides you've made so far.

 

p.s. I re-read this 3 times. A bit of anger does, understandably, creep in. Which is another reason why NOT to send this. But I can understand why you wrote it - it's cathartic.

Edited March 1, 2012 by worldgonewrong

[marqueemoon4]

Yea.. well thats my rep with everyone on her side... I can't control my emotions, anger issues, etc. There is some truth to it, but I'm not the type who just gets angry for no reason. She knew how to push my buttons, how to expose me and she got what she wanted. I appreciate the outside perspective, because to me that whole message was as anger free as I could muster under the circumstance and after what happened.