Wife made stupid mistake

[DazednConfused]

J,

 

You could be right.

 

One thing I have realized for myself is that it is okay to not be able to get past this with her. I want to, sure. But I have given myself permission to see the options I have.

 

I will not live like this forever. If it is my own character flaw that will not allow me to "let it go" then so be it, we did not need to be in this position to begin with did we?

 

<sigh> I don't know what else to say so I guess I will get on with the rest of my day.

 

-Dazed

[whichwayisup]

Good vent. It does help doing that, doesn't it?

 

She trusts you 100% and then some, but you aren't trusting her yet. I don't know how long that will take, if it ever does come back fully? Maybe differently?

 

Hey, I haven't given up hope on you two. Too much love there.

 

I can't remember for sure (oops, sorry) if your wife is seeing a therapist on her own...She needs to be seeing somebody and working on herself more too.

 

What else to say D? Good days, enjoy them and live them to the fullest. The bad ones, ride them out and just know there are tons more good days to come.

 

Are you sure she couldn't take it? How much she hurt you? Hearing about it? Maybe she needs to so she can really see the actual damage she caused you and how much it is still very fresh in your head and heart.

 

Ok that's enough from me for now.

 

[sylviaguardian]

dazed,

 

I can only reply quickly just now and i would have liked to have read your post better. Unfortunately I know exactly what you mean in your post. Every single one of those points has cycled through my head.

 

On my worst days I realise that I am fool for staying with him and just want it to be over and get on with my life with a decent person. On okay days, I am consumed with panic that trying means I will have my heart smashed to pieces all over again. On good days, I admit that my marriage and my life as I knew it is over. There is a chance that we can build a new relationship but it will be tough and might not work.

 

Great choices, huh? And I didn't choose any of them. One thing I'm starting to see is that while I have a right to be angry, the only person it really hurts is me.

 

Hang in there dazed. More later,

 

Syl

[ConfusedInOC]

dazed,

 

I wish I knew what to tell you. All I can say is your are doing the best that you can. Do you think separating from your wife would be constructive? I think you need someone serious YOU time away from her. And I think she needs to understand what life would be like without you in it.

 

You can't erase the past, but you can take a different perspective of the future.

 

Your wife is making an effort to fix things. If you truly love her, you need to somehow express to her that the trust is broken and she has to figure out a way to build it back.

 

It seems to me that's what you're missing the most is the trust factor. As far as I can tell, you didn't do anything wrong.

 

Cheating sucks. I wish the repercussions of cheating could be shown to both parties before they decide to throw caution to wind. If they knew the pain they'd be causing beforehand, that would be enough to smack them back into reality.

 

I wish you all the luck in the world.

 

Not sure if you are religious but the one book I think you should read is "The Purpose Driven Life". It puts a lot of things into perspective.

[ThumbingMyWay]

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

Cheating sucks. I wish the repercussions of cheating could be shown to both parties before they decide to throw caution to wind. If they knew the pain they'd be causing beforehand, that would be enough to smack them back into reality.

 

I totally agree. Wouldnt it be nice if you knew how to meet your SO needs before they ran off and got it somewhere else? I mean....if I knew then what I know now.....I would be a totally different person in my marriage....just sucks that it took my wifes infidelity to make me/her/us WAKE UP....

 

 

 

Not sure if you are religious but the one book I think you should read is "The Purpose Driven Life". It puts a lot of things into perspective.

 

this book single handedly changed my view of life. It changed the attitude of my heart and I will be forever greatful for that.....you have life struggles in general....then read this book. Albeit a christian based book.....life saving to say the least...dont know what I would be like if I didnt have faith to get me thru all of this s***

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by ThumbingMyWay

this book single handedly changed my view of life. It changed the attitude of my heart and I will be forever greatful for that.....you have life struggles in general....then read this book. Albeit a christian based book.....life saving to say the least...dont know what I would be like if I didnt have faith to get me thru all of this s***

 

I go to Rick's Church as well, Saddleback. He's such a great speaker and inspirational person. I should be looking for my wife at Church.

[randomguy]

What I want to know is:

 

Why do people struggle so hard to maintain or repair a marriage that is torn apart by something like this?

 

For me, having never been married, whenever I've found that a SO is cheating on me that's the end of the relationship. I don't want to spend hours and days and months figuring out how I need to approach her or the intense questioning of my own self because someone else found something better or because they just felt like doing something that as a human being with a free will, they are entitled to do. I didn't always adhere to a "one strike you're out" policy, but it really tore me up inside when SOs had cheated on me in the past. I'd think to myself, I'm not good enough or I'm not handsome enough or any number of negative things about myself, or I'd question what I could have done better or where I screwed up things so badly that she wanted to be with someone else.

 

If I were married and something like this happened, I would just let her go. It wouldn't mean that I didn't care about her, or that I didn't love her and want her to be happy. It would just mean that I wouldn't want to face something like that every day for the rest of my life when I looked at her. I wouldn't want to be reminded of things when she was gone longer than she said she'd be gone. I wouldn't want her to feel like she owed something to me. I wouldn't want to spend so much energy chasing after "why" and "how can I fix it" that I ran out of energy to just love them no questions asked.

 

I think it's very brave of the people here to forgive their wives and husbands, and I understand that marriage involves more than just a committment to each other. But I don't think I've ever seen a couple go through something like this and come out truly happy 5 or 10 years down the line. There is always regret, always an undulating wave of emotion underneath everything and in even the most open and honest marriages there are things that would have been said or done that the other person simply cannot forget.

 

I would think one's time would be best spent finding someone who loves you completely, and who is strong enough and emotionally mature enough to resist anything that would put them at risk of losing you.

 

You can't control anyone's actions, no matter how much you want to. You can actively stay on top of things to prevent people from doing certain things or going out after work with friends, you can badger them with questions to understand why they did something when in reality the answers would hurt you so much that they could never tell you.

 

Why do people spend so much time trying to create things in a marriage that aren't even there? You can't create trust if it doesn't exist. You can't create passion in a relationship that is passionless. You can't create spontaneity when things have always been mundane.

 

I would just love to hear from the people here who have listed in excruciating detail the ways their SOs have hurt them, exactly WHY you choose to work on it and devote so much of your energy to repairing something instead of using that energy to start something new. I'd love to hear why you would want to grow towards your SO emotionally to hold onto them instead of allowing yourself to grow away from them so far that you never have to relive the moments in which that person hurt you again.

 

I've used the phrase "It just wasn't meant to be" many times in my life to deal with heartache and loss.

 

Have any of you tried and tried but then years later come to the conclusion that "it just wasn't meant to be?"

[randomguy]

What I want to know is:

 

Why do people struggle so hard to maintain or repair a marriage that is torn apart by something like this?

 

For me, having never been married, whenever I've found that a SO is cheating on me that's the end of the relationship. I don't want to spend hours and days and months figuring out how I need to approach her or the intense questioning of my own self because someone else found something better or because they just felt like doing something that as a human being with a free will, they are entitled to do. I didn't always adhere to a "one strike you're out" policy, but it really tore me up inside when SOs had cheated on me in the past. I'd think to myself, I'm not good enough or I'm not handsome enough or any number of negative things about myself, or I'd question what I could have done better or where I screwed up things so badly that she wanted to be with someone else.

 

If I were married and something like this happened, I would just let her go. It wouldn't mean that I didn't care about her, or that I didn't love her and want her to be happy. It would just mean that I wouldn't want to face something like that every day for the rest of my life when I looked at her. I wouldn't want to be reminded of things when she was gone longer than she said she'd be gone. I wouldn't want her to feel like she owed something to me. I wouldn't want to spend so much energy chasing after "why" and "how can I fix it" that I ran out of energy to just love them no questions asked.

 

I think it's very brave of the people here to forgive their wives and husbands, and I understand that marriage involves more than just a committment to each other. But I don't think I've ever seen a couple go through something like this and come out truly happy 5 or 10 years down the line. There is always regret, always an undulating wave of emotion underneath everything and in even the most open and honest marriages there are things that would have been said or done that the other person simply cannot forget.

 

I would think one's time would be best spent finding someone who loves you completely, and who is strong enough and emotionally mature enough to resist anything that would put them at risk of losing you.

 

You can't control anyone's actions, no matter how much you want to. You can actively stay on top of things to prevent people from doing certain things or going out after work with friends, you can badger them with questions to understand why they did something when in reality the answers would hurt you so much that they could never tell you.

 

Why do people spend so much time trying to create things in a marriage that aren't even there? You can't create trust if it doesn't exist. You can't create passion in a relationship that is passionless. You can't create spontaneity when things have always been mundane.

 

I would just love to hear from the people here who have listed in excruciating detail the ways their SOs have hurt them, exactly WHY you choose to work on it and devote so much of your energy to repairing something instead of using that energy to start something new. I'd love to hear why you would want to grow towards your SO emotionally to hold onto them instead of allowing yourself to grow away from them so far that you never have to relive the moments in which that person hurt you again.

 

I've used the phrase "It just wasn't meant to be" many times in my life to deal with heartache and loss.

 

Have any of you tried and tried but then years later come to the conclusion that "it just wasn't meant to be?"

[TMCM]

randomguy,

 

I understand what you are saying and what works for some people will not work for others. But not all unfaithful spouses are alike, and their affairs are as different as they are. Some fall into affairs after a friendship slowly starts crossing marital boundaries and some fall into affairs due to pre-marital issues [i.e. childhood sexual abuse, depression, etc.]. The former are usually salvageable but the latter are extremely hard to overcome without the acknowledgement and resolve from the unfaithful spouse to overcome his/her demons.

 

Lastly, remember that those who take the greatest risks are also the ones who receive the greatest rewards, and that applies to marriage as well.

 

TMCM

[papple]

Dazed /everyone

Dazed, you kindly replied to a message I posted on this board back in January. I was in virtually the same situation as you-Trying to recover after the devastation of my wife's affair in the summer. Your reply helped a lot and my Wife's promises that it was over gave me the strength to try and save my marriage of 16 years.

Until last Saturday!

 

I discovered a second sim card for her mobile and the truth came out that she has continued to see the scumbag despite saying it was over and that she loves and cares for me etc.

Also she confessed that there was a lot more sex than she originally told me about and that she thought she was in love with him during the early stage of the relationship -also similar to you Dazed.

 

I asked for all the details and got them including her having sex regularly in a field and once in a supermarket toilet-classy eh!

 

Also my 13 year old daughter had seen them together on a shopping trip to London a couple of months ago -thankfully only talking -she was sworn to keep it secret. Scared that we would split up she said nothing to me -nice one to put on a kid through don’t you think.

 

Anyway she has said that she wasn’t ready to stop seeing him when I found out back in November despite the pain she had caused me-she “separated" the two feelings.

 

Dazed, I know you know how I feel. Words cannot describe it.

It is like her having two separate affairs back to back.

I'm back to square one

 

However the "story" she is giving me now is that the relationship had been fading recently and the sex had stopped. They only met for coffee and a chat now and then. She accepts that I may leave her but passionately insists that she now realises that it is me she loves and wants me to stay and is devasted about what she did to Becky our daughter.

 

She has destroyed the second sim and the phone, and rang the scum bag to tell him it is over and wants no more contact with him-to which he agreed.Apparantly he is moving to Canada later this year as well.

 

All the words she speaks seem genuine as before-she certainly seems more believable this time and swears that she will not hurt me again and if he tries to make contact again she will not respond.

 

For the sake of my two kids (the younger boy does not know anything) and our 15 good years together I would still like to make it work-I must be mad!

 

I guess you all know the next question-How the xxxx can I ever believe her again and how can I forgive and regain some self esteem. All the eloquent words about feelings that Dazed has written apply to me exactly.

Finally I have managed to track down the stone that the scumbag lives under with his poor unsuspecting wife and two kids. Do I tell her about the affair and put her through the same hell as me - at least she would have the same choice to go or stay as me, or am I just looking for revenge because so far he has had his fun with no due to pay .I sure would love to make him suffer.

 

Sorry to ramble on but I would value any thoughts or help anyone might have,

and Dazed I feel for you man I hope it may help to know that someone over the pond is going through the same hell as you.

Pete

[whichwayisup]

However the "story" she is giving me now is that the relationship had been fading recently and the sex had stopped. They only met for coffee and a chat now and then. She accepts that I may leave her but passionately insists that she now realises that it is me she loves and wants me to stay and is devasted about what she did to Becky our daughter.

 

She has destroyed the second sim and the phone, and rang the scum bag to tell him it is over and wants no more contact with him-to which he agreed.Apparantly he is moving to Canada later this year as well.

 

All the words she speaks seem genuine as before-she certainly seems more believable this time and swears that she will not hurt me again and if he tries to make contact again she will not respond.

 

Ouch! Even though she isn't sleeping with him anymore, it now is just an emotional affair. Double OUCH for that position your daughter was put in. How unfair and horrible for her to have to keep that to herself, in fear that if she said ANYTHING she'd probably blame herself if the marriage ended...That's just plain awful!

 

Seems though, because this guy is moving to Canada that is why NOW she can say NC and can work on the marriage 100%.

 

You love her, then fight hard work through it all and get to councilling with her too.

 

Keep posting and hang in there Pete.

[sylviaguardian]

Pete,

 

Sorry to hear about this double betrayal. I agree with WWIU - it has turned from a sexual affair into an emotional affair. Either way, your wife has a big problem with boundaries and with telling the truth.

 

Your first point of call will be to decide whether your wife can change her views on being honest. It sounds like she STILL has not understood what it means.

 

Just out of interest, how did you find out about the second sim card? Were you still checking up on her. This is my own personal worst nightmare.

 

As for the classy sex details - people in affairs do not do 'classy' things. Look at all the posts here. In the cold light of day what they do is generally fairly pathetic and sad - that is the nature of the beast.

 

I am not in a position to give advice but I do have a few things to say on the subject of forgiveness, self-esteem and revenge. First of all - forgiveness. IMHO opinion you should not be worrying about this right now. If you try to forgive her too soon it will all come back to haunt you (Been there). You have only just found out this latest information give yourself time to process it and allow your feelings to run their course. Second: self-esteem. I know this sounds stupid but you should not have a problem with self-esteem! You have done nothing wrong. Your wife's behaviour may or may not have been related to your behaviour at some point or the state of the marriage but she chose to have an affair not you. Why is it the BS who has problems with self-esteem and not the WS? It seems that your self-esteem was ok, after all you didn't need a superficial, fake relationship to bolster YOUR self-esteem. Be nice to yourself. Make a list of the things you like about yourself, good things you have done, people who have said nice things about you and be NICE to yourself. This is not a reflection on you as a person, it is a reflection of your wife's behaviour.

 

Ditto trusting her - it is too soon to be worrying about trusting her. I would be worrying more about whether her attitude to marriage has changed or not. It will take a long time to trust her again and even when you do, she will have to have earned that

 

Originally posted by papple

 

Finally I have managed to track down the stone that the scumbag lives under with his poor unsuspecting wife and two kids. Do I tell her about the affair and put her through the same hell as me - at least she would have the same choice to go or stay as me, or am I just looking for revenge because so far he has had his fun with no due to pay .I sure would love to make him suffer.

 

Pete

 

Ah, it would be so sweet would it not? I feel the same about the OW a lot of the time. She had great fun with my husband and as far as I can see, I am the one who's paying for it. I would so much LOVE to drop her right in it. Why don't I? A variety of reasons: I like to think of myself as a decent person. I am aware that the OW's husband would not see that I was doing it out of the goodness of my heart. Oh no, he would be totally aware that I am trying to break up their marriage so that I can hurt her (whilst not giving a damn about him). That would make my behavior too close to what my H and the OW did. Secondly, my life is a mess, I don't need more mess like the OW coming round screaming at me in front of the kids, him beating up my H etc etc. I have been getting loads of wierd 'phone calls anyway and am pretty convinced that it is the OW. That freaks me out enough without her threatening to kill me! The last reason is simple: I might think that it would make me feel better. The truth is that it won't change a thing.

 

Anyway, just my thoughts.

 

Look after yourself Pete,

Sylvia

[TMCM]

Originally posted by papple

 

I guess you all know the next question-How the xxxx can I ever believe her again and how can I forgive and regain some self esteem.

 

Her willingness to adopt a new life in which BOTH of you become open books to each other and not become defensive when trying to account for her time and whereabouts, is often THE key to helping to regain the lost trust. How committed is she to do this?

 

As far as self esteem is concerned, please consider that the opportunities for you to cheat on her have always been there but you chose NOT to take advantage of them. You can look at yourself in the mirror and not be disgusted by what you see.

 

Finally I have managed to track down the stone that the scumbag lives under with his poor unsuspecting wife and two kids. Do I tell her about the affair and put her through the same hell as me - at least she would have the same choice to go or stay as me, or am I just looking for revenge because so far he has had his fun with no due to pay .I sure would love to make him suffer.

 

Affairs thrive on secrecy, and if you don't tell his BW [betrayed wife], you become a silent co-conspirator for any future affair he might have with another married woman. OM are notorious for not wanting to leave their marriages and families, and if his BW knew about his affair, she would have him by the ba**s and he would have to walk a very straight and narrow line if he did not want to lose his BW and kids. But the decision to tell his BW is ultimately yours.

[RecordProducer]

Wow, Dazed, it's been 10 months and you're still suffering. I am not saying it's odd, just that you must've been through hell that hasn't ended yet.

Do you think you'll be able to ever forgive her? How is your marriage right now? Do you make love, exchange signs of affection, do things together? Are you happy? Is she?

[DazednConfused]

Ha RP;

 

It would be cool I guess if I posted all the good things that have come of this as well. I think I will try to do so on Monday.

 

I have to say that if there were not more good things than bad, I probably would have called it quits. Of course we still do all the things you mentioned and more. And yes, they can be very fulfilling, sometimes moreso than before her affair.

 

But over it all still hangs a taint. Sometimes more foul than others, but it is always there. I post when I am hurting, in an effort to discharge my vitriolic feelings rather than spew them at her.

 

Any self respecting therapist, counselor, psychologist, or shrink knows it will take two or more years to work through all of the issues surrounding an affair. By that timeline, it is still early for me.

 

One day at a time.

 

-Dazed

[sylviaguardian]

Ha ha! That would be a good one Dazed. Why don't we start a thread entitled 'all the good things to come out of my wife/husband's affair!. That would make for interesting reading.

 

Sylvia

[ThumbingMyWay]

Originally posted by sylviaguardian

Ha ha! That would be a good one Dazed. Why don't we start a thread entitled 'all the good things to come out of my wife/husband's affair!. That would make for interesting reading.

 

Sylvia

 

 

ya know...that actual is a good idea.....there are a few things that have changed for the better...

[Donburi]

Wow...I really don't know what to say. You are the most forgiving, mature person I have ever heard of. I read your original post and tried reading all the comments but yeah...there's quite a few of those.

 

 

I hope only the best for you, and from what I've read you're still going through alot of hard times, understandable. Some days are definitely better than others. Your love for your wife sounds so good and pure...I hope that she does or will realize that...and things will work out someday.

 

 

I guess to be honest, I'm here for some advice from you, only if you have time or want to, of course. I made a post a few days ago with a similiar situation to yours ('cept I'm the one who messed things up ) and while it is very understandable and I totally deserve it, most of the responses were "you don't deserve his forgiveness, you're cold-hearted, etc..." Like I said, these people have every right to say these things, but I am aware of how terrible of a person I am, and I was on this forum for advice...and I wasn't really getting any...

 

 

To make a small story short, me and my boyfriend "J" have been together 3 years. Very VERY strong feelings for eachother, talked about a future together, we have/had one, going to Japan next year to teach English...we have just about everything in common, you get the idea.

 

Well, for a while now, I had been feeling neglected, but I don't think he was actually neglecting me. Like you said for your wife, maybe I was just de-sensitiving myself from it, who knows. Anyways, recently, his friend (who I always thought was really cool and fun to be around with) got closer to me, at first it was innocent. Since I didn't really have any friends other than J, I was delighted and super excited to be able to hang out and talk with someone else. Now, his friend wasn't devious or evil or anything like that, but when I think about it now I feel as if he took advantage of my worries and doubts with J. When we talked about J's old flames, he would "casually" bring up how "in his opinion" J seemed more crazy in love about her than with me. Little stuff like that. Sure got to my head though.

We've been close friends for a few months now...always innocent (I thought it was, anyways) til about two weeks ago.

 

Three weeks ago, I realized I had strong feelings for the friend, and he felt the same way, except he says he had those feelings for me ever since I entered J's life. We both discuss how "we" could never happen, because I loved J and even if I didn't I couldn't hurt him that way. You're gonna think I'm a hyprocrite for sayin' that...so I think a week later?, us three were hanging out at J's place, J was playing his video games (biggest hardcore gamer EVER, but thats a different story!) and was kinda cranky because I turned down his date to go iceskating that day...I STILL do not know to this day why I did that, like you said with your wife, maybe at the time she only felt good about herself when someone new was doing it...I dunno. Oh, I forgot to mention, after the friend and I had our talk about our feelings, I asked J for a small break to think about things, I didn't tell him the details. Anyways...the friend and I ended up in another room alone chatting, I was upset about some things and eventually...things happened. He made a move on me (rubbed my crotch, which lead to his finger slightly penetrating me, I was wearing J's boxers) and while I told him to stop, I didn't try my hardest because part of me wanted it. This all lasted less than a min but J walked in to see it...

 

He broke up with me, but from what I'm guessing its not official...He says right now he doesn't want to be with me but he can't say its over for good because he loves me very much and doesn't know how he is gonna feel in the future so he can't make any concrete decisions. He doesn't know what to do. All I know is right now we're not together, but there might still be a chance for us in the future. I don't know. He says he looks at me in a different light, that his heart did a 180, and that he learned alot from this...it hurt me so much to hear him say that...He says he knows I'm a good person though, and he believes me when I say I would never let something like this happen again. When he asked why it happened I couldn't really explain, all I could say was I was weak, that I happened to be compatible enough with the friend to fall for him in that way, that I let him manipulate with the way I thought and felt (I have a very VERY insecure mind) and that since he was so nice and always complimenting me I was addicted to it...

 

He is gonna be gone for the next few weeks due to some activities and says its best for US (as individuals and maybe as a couple) to have that time apart from eachother. No communication until he gets back...I can't help but wonder what is going to happen. We're going to be friends, no matter what, thats pretty much all I know for sure right now. And as much as that is more than I deserve, I can't help but fight for our relationship. We were so in love...we were going to have a future together...

 

So, I guess I was wondering, since he is in the same place as you are right now, what can I do to help him? Will leaving him alone right now show him I'm respecting his wishes and serious about working things out? I seriously don't know what to do...

 

He is a good person, he isn't out to get me or have his revenge. He is 23, almost 24, young I know, but very mature for his age. Been in enough serious relationships to know how it works, not the type to have one night stands or anything, in fact, he is a virgin, saving it for marriage...goes to church, never drank or smoked anything in his life. He's got a very good head on his shoulders. He told me if he KNEW for a fact he could never be with me again, he would have told me...but for now, I have to wait...

 

Who knew waiting for an answer could be so hard... But I'll take any kind of punishment I can right now....

 

Thank you SO much for reading this D&C...your wife is very lucky to have you.

[Binarysys]

I know this thread has been quiet for a while, but I thought I would post my 2 cents.

 

Dazed - As everyone here has done, I commend you. I think you are mostly a great guy, but I do have some issues. No one is perfect, and I know you have never said you were....

 

What your wife did sucks beyond belief. No way do I condone what she has done. But I am sorry...in all of your post I have read it always comes back to how you were the best husband. No one is that good. No one. I am sure that you were better than most...I can tell by how you speak about your feelings and commitment to work things out. But you have flaws as everyone does.

 

You talk about how your wife should not protect your feelings...not tell you things because she thinks it will put you over the top and you will leave. But are you not doing that to her also by not telling her how much you hurt? How do you know that she will not be able to handle it? You talk so much about how you feel that she is not being forthcoming with you by doing this. Yet it seems to me that you keep control of the situation by holding back.

 

You are the wronged party in all of this. That is not in dispute. But don’t you think that you might be holding onto some of your issues in a way to punish your wife? Or maybe it is a way to keep control. Just something about all that you have said makes me feel like there are deeper issues with you. Your constant want to know details. It does draw things out...you bring it up over and over again with your wife. You know that she feels awful, yet you always want to talk about it. I have read over and over about how you should concentrate on why it has happened, not on the details. Yet the details seem to have your greatest attention.

 

It might be possible that your wife doesn’t bring up the details because she does want to forget what happened. She hates what she has done, and each time she has to tell you something new, she feels like she is doing it to you all over again. Why would she want to hurt you again and again? Why do you want to be hurt again and again?

 

I know I will get flamed for this as all see you in such a good light...Your willingness to stay is absolutely admirable. But, IMHO, until you own up to your part in the flaws of the marriage, and maybe explore the reasons why you seem to want to have your wife hurt you time and again, I don’t think that you will make it the three years you have given the marriage.

 

BTW, have you told your wife the plan to possibly divorce when your daughter graduates? Don't you think that she has a right to know that mostly you are in the marriage right now because of your belief that it should be a 2 parent home? You say you are staying because you love your wife, but I do not see how that is compatible with a timeline like that. Either you are in, or you are out. You are committed to make the marriage work no matter how long it takes, or what’s the point?

 

Just for the record, I have been the wife of 2 husbands that have cheated. I am currently married to a man that is a lot like you Dazed. He loves me. He would do anything for me. After what I have been through in my previous marriages, I know this is something I need to appreciate for the rest of my life. I adore him. Both of us have flaws.

[DazednConfused]

It has been about 6-8 months since I have posted here, but I have lurked on occasion.

 

Yep, just about 18 months and we are still kicking. I just noticed this morning some new thoughts on my thread and decided I should respond to a couple of them...

 

Daruuk, I hope by your advice that you are only hoping to advise and inform... it smells suspiciously like an advertisement for a product in which you have a personal stake. As to keylogging, i am the only one who uses our home PC. She uses one at work but works for the Dept. of Defense, and hacking her work comp is not an option unless I was interested in espionage and treason charges. I have no desire to room w/ Saddam. Thanks for the advice tho.

 

Binary;

 

You have some great insights to share, and for the most part I can agree with them.

 

What your wife did sucks beyond belief. No way do I condone what she has done. But I am sorry...in all of your post I have read it always comes back to how you were the best husband. No one is that good. No one. I am sure that you were better than most...I can tell by how you speak about your feelings and commitment to work things out. But you have flaws as everyone does.

 

No question. Of course I have flaws as we all do. My name is Don, not Jesus. What I was trying to illustrate is how things were for my wife prior to and during her affair. People, (Men AND Women) can have it all, and still cheat. And yes, some people can be that good. I was. When you get right down to it, sometimes what people think they want is not the reality.

 

Many women say they want a handsome, sensitive man who cares about them without reservation; a real gentleman who takes care of them and yet manages to maintain the relationship as a partnership. Until that gets boring and they start flirting with the guy who comes to work on the furnace.

 

Many men say they want an attractive woman who is independent and intelligent. Someone who can be a real partner and constantly challenge his mind and arouse his body. A few years down the road some of these men who marry their "dream" can be found in Cancun with some bubblehead.

 

In many cases, as in mine, there is such a thing as "too much of a good thing"

 

You talk about how your wife should not protect your feelings...not tell you things because she thinks it will put you over the top and you will leave. But are you not doing that to her also by not telling her how much you hurt? How do you know that she will not be able to handle it? You talk so much about how you feel that she is not being forthcoming with you by doing this. Yet it seems to me that you keep control of the situation by holding back.

 

I came to the same realization a few months ago. My real problem was/is that I still love my wife intensely and so, was reluctant to make her relive her mistake over and over through discussion. This was my weakness as well as hers. We now keep a joint journal in which we have the discussions but can do it at times when we are in the right frame of mind and do not have to face the tears and dissapointment in a direct manner. We can clear the air and still have our quality time together.

 

You are the wronged party in all of this. That is not in dispute. But don’t you think that you might be holding onto some of your issues in a way to punish your wife? Or maybe it is a way to keep control. Just something about all that you have said makes me feel like there are deeper issues with you. Your constant want to know details. It does draw things out...you bring it up over and over again with your wife. You know that she feels awful, yet you always want to talk about it. I have read over and over about how you should concentrate on why it has happened, not on the details. Yet the details seem to have your greatest attention.

 

It might be possible that your wife doesn’t bring up the details because she does want to forget what happened. She hates what she has done, and each time she has to tell you something new, she feels like she is doing it to you all over again. Why would she want to hurt you again and again? Why do you want to be hurt again and again?

 

I know I will get flamed for this as all see you in such a good light...Your willingness to stay is absolutely admirable. But, IMHO, until you own up to your part in the flaws of the marriage, and maybe explore the reasons why you seem to want to have your wife hurt you time and again, I don’t think that you will make it the three years you have given the marriage.

 

Another good observation. My desire here is two-fold. First and foremost, I deserve to know the overall "why?". Unless we both understand the true reason that she strayed, neither of us can take the steps to ensure that it doesn't happen or become an issue again. You can keep putting air into your tire, but until you find and repair the leak, it will keep going flat.

 

Second, I deserve to know what went on, what they discussed, what was said, how they felt, everything. You see, my wife has all the pieces. She has ALL the information and chose to stay with me. How nice for her.

 

I have some facts, some half truths, some complete omission, and alot of damage control. This is pure selfish manipulation. She wants to keep our life together, and so controls the information for fear that I will hear the one thing that sends me over the edge. As long as she witholds, I live in fear that there really IS one thing that will send me over the edge. It's a vicious circle and the only answer is full disclosure without subterfuge. I don't know, maybe there is something there that will make me leave her, but if so, I am sure it is something that I deserve to know. I am supposed to take a chance on her future fidelity, but she cannot take a chance on my present ability to handle the truth.

 

You are correct. It hurts. It hurts us both every time something new comes out. Why is it, do you suppose that it has been over a year and four months and "new" facts are still coming out? It's because there are still facts that have not been disclosed. It sucks, but there it is.

 

I do take responsibility for the condition of my marriage when the affair began. I own that I did neglect my wife in some ways. I own that I became comlacent and content in the flow of our lives. I own that I did not take enough interest in her interests. I own that I did not set and enforce any real boundaries. I own many other failures within our relationship. My biggest failure was believing that my wife simply loved me too much to have an affair. My own denial.

 

The fact remains that we were both in the SAME marriage. Neither of us was perfectly happy. We both had wants and desires. I didn't go and get those things elsewhere. I chose to stay within my marriage.

 

Perhaps there IS some measure of control in remaining the victim and remaining hurt. I like to think that in the last several months, I have made some great strides in this area. I am not interested in making her pay indefinately for this mistake. But the betrayal and the anger still linger.

 

I don't think anyone here will flame you, this board is about honest and inightful helping of others. Your insights are quite good. As to the perception of me, I like to think I helped afew people back when I still frequented this board and a few of the regulars may remember.

 

BTW, have you told your wife the plan to possibly divorce when your daughter graduates? Don't you think that she has a right to know that mostly you are in the marriage right now because of your belief that it should be a 2 parent home? You say you are staying because you love your wife, but I do not see how that is compatible with a timeline like that. Either you are in, or you are out. You are committed to make the marriage work no matter how long it takes, or what’s the point?

 

Nope, I have not told her of the timeline I have established. I want her working with me because it is the right thing to do, not because of some phantom deadline. She does however know that the reason I have initially stayed was for our daughter.

 

I regularly exchange emails and messages with a man who's wife had a sexual and emotional affair 27 years ago. TWENTY SEVEN YEARS!! He still suffers as much today as he did in the first couple years after. He is only now considering bailing on the marriage. Look at all the time wasted in buried feelings and resentment. I have placed a more than reasonable time limit upon our recovery. During the time that I have committed to, I have also committed to working hard at this marriage and our relationship. Three years ago, I never dreamt that I would be here, in this position. I don't know where I will be emotionally when the three plus years are up, but I do know I will be able to stay or go with a clear conscience.

 

Just for the record, I have been the wife of 2 husbands that have cheated. I am currently married to a man that is a lot like you Dazed. He loves me. He would do anything for me. After what I have been through in my previous marriages, I know this is something I need to appreciate for the rest of my life. I adore him. Both of us have flaws.

 

I am truly sorry for the failure of your first two marriages, but I am pleased to hear of your current husband. He sounds like a good one!

 

Thank you again for your thoughts and for giving me the opportunity to fully rethink and write my thoughts and goals, it has helped me to rethink and evaluate my thought process of months ago.

 

-Dazed

[whichwayisup]

Dazed, nice to see you post. And a good post, might I add. Guess the mountain needed to explode and come out for abit.

 

You've helped many people on LS, myself included. And I think you know how many of us adore you and love to read what you have to say!

 

When I get my thoughts together I'll reply abit more. Kinda have a sour taste still in my mouth from lastnights stupid shootout loss as it was my teams home opener, so my frame of mind today isn't wonderful.

 

[TMCM]

 

BTW, have you told your wife the plan to possibly divorce when your daughter graduates? Don't you think that she has a right to know that mostly you are in the marriage right now because of your belief that it should be a 2 parent home? You say you are staying because you love your wife, but I do not see how that is compatible with a timeline like that. Either you are in, or you are out. You are committed to make the marriage work no matter how long it takes, or what’s the point?

 

Nope, I have not told her of the timeline I have established. I want her working with me because it is the right thing to do, not because of some phantom deadline. She does however know that the reason I have initially stayed was for our daughter.

 

Dazed,

 

Secrecy is a principal ingredient in the birth and existence of an affair. Secrecy is the enemy of Intimacy [the sharing of one's deeds and deepest thoughts and feelings]. You want intimacy from your W but secrecy for yourself. I'm sorry but this smacks of manipulation on your part. Keeping the truth about your plans from your W is just as wrong as she keeping the truth from you about the details of her affair. You may not be having a so called 'revenge affair' but you are certainly having a 'revenge secrecy'. I hope you'll reconsider.

 

TMCM

[whichwayisup]

Dazed,

Secrecy is a principal ingredient in the birth and existence of an affair. Secrecy is the enemy of Intimacy [the sharing of one's deeds and deepest thoughts and feelings]. You want intimacy from your W but secrecy for yourself. I'm sorry but this smacks of manipulation on your part. Keeping the truth about your plans from your W is just as wrong as she keeping the truth from you about the details of her affair. You may not be having a so called 'revenge affair' but you are certainly having a 'revenge secrecy'. I hope you'll reconsider.

TMCM

 

I see what you're saying, but in all honesty, I can understand why Dazed is handling it this way. His wife isn't coming clean with him completely, he's asked her for over a year now to do so and hasn't. He has suffered because of it - So, in his mind he's made a plan. Personally, she doesn't have to know that he may leave further in the future. IT WILL hinder her efforts to be a better wife to him. How then, he is supposed to know she is doing it out of desperation or real love for him?

 

What he is doing isn't "evil", he's putting himself first because of her actions. Her actions, which in all honesty, hasn't 100% sunk in.

 

He loves her and has stuck with her! Don't compare what he's doing to protect himself to what she did by having an affair...Apples and Oranges...

[TMCM]

His wife isn't coming clean with him completely, he's asked her for over a year now to do so and hasn't. He has suffered because of it - So, in his mind he's made a plan.

 

A plan that he may end up regretting later on.

 

Personally, she doesn't have to know that he may leave further in the future. IT WILL hinder her efforts to be a better wife to him.

 

So you are saying that his honesty will 'hinder her efforts to be a better wife to him'?

 

How then, he is supposed to know she is doing it out of desperation or real love for him?

 

Actions. Her actions will speak louder than any words coming out of her mouth. Such as willingly being an open book to him and not hiding anything from him. Besides desperation is usually temporary and disipates once the fear passes. It is probably better to deal with it now than 2 years from now when he finally leaves her.

 

What he is doing isn't "evil", he's putting himself first because of her actions. Her actions, which in all honesty, hasn't 100% sunk in.

 

Telling her that he is going to leave her 2 years hence IS putting himself first and demonstrating to her that her actions DO have consequences.

 

He loves her and has stuck with her! Don't compare what he's doing to protect himself to what she did by having an affair...Apples and Oranges...

 

While an affair is a life altering event that shakes one's beleif system to the core [tell me about it], there are other things that can doom a marriage and one of them is secrecy. Apples and oragnes maybe different but they are still fruit.

 

TMCM

[whichwayisup]

Originally Posted by whichwayisup

His wife isn't coming clean with him completely, he's asked her for over a year now to do so and hasn't. He has suffered because of it - So, in his mind he's made a plan.

 

 

A plan that he may end up regretting later on.[/QUOTE]

 

I don't think so, because he has to do what he feels is right for him. He has tried and tried to get past it all, but her STILL not coming fully clean with him, holding back has made it worse in his heart. That's just my take on it and I could be wrong...

 

Quote:

Personally, she doesn't have to know that he may leave further in the future. IT WILL hinder her efforts to be a better wife to him.

 

 

So you are saying that his honesty will 'hinder her efforts to be a better wife to him'?[/QUOTE]

 

Yes. SHE knows what her affair did to him and their marriage. SO therefore, my answer before is quite fitting. She knows what she could lose and still hasn't done all to fix it. Again, just my take on it.

 

 

Quote:

How then, he is supposed to know she is doing it out of desperation or real love for him?

 

 

Actions. Her actions will speak louder than any words coming out of her mouth. Such as willingly being an open book to him and not hiding anything from him. Besides desperation is usually temporary and disipates once the fear passes. It is probably better to deal with it now than 2 years from now when he finally leaves her.[/QUOTE]

 

Well, her actions recently haven't been an open book. She's past the fear, now it's just she wants to Get ON with life and leave the A in the past...Sorry, he can't do that as he's the one who still has 2am thoughts that jolt him out of bed. He can't just "get over it" cuz she has moved past it. Maybe he's sick of it all, I don't know! Either way, I am aware from his earlier posts, that she has not and would not come and read certain posts/replies and afew other things that he asked her to do. Out of guilt maybe? So she wouldn't have to feel bad? That's the easier way out...

 

 

Quote:

What he is doing isn't "evil", he's putting himself first because of her actions. Her actions, which in all honesty, hasn't 100% sunk in.

 

 

Telling her that he is going to leave her 2 years hence IS putting himself first and demonstrating to her that her actions DO have consequences.[/QUOTE]

 

Again, will it be her actions out of fear and losing life as she knows it, or real love for him...Telling her the plan, how will he really know?

 

 

Quote:

He loves her and has stuck with her! Don't compare what he's doing to protect himself to what she did by having an affair...Apples and Oranges...

 

 

While an affair is a life altering event that shakes one's beleif system to the core [tell me about it], there are other things that can doom a marriage and one of them is secrecy. Apples and oragnes maybe different but they are still fruit.[/QUOTE]

 

Yes, they're still fruit, and yes it is a life altering thing, life will never go back to as it once was...There are secrets to help, and secrets to hinder. Hers was one to ruin and devastate, his isn't. Just my thoughts...