Author Bailey14 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Alice2012, I have been married and then involved in 3 very long term relationships and I have never cheated on any of the men I have loved. I will accept a lot of criticism here but, please do not suggest that I am not capable of being faithful. As to the matter of respecting marriage......I grew up with a cheating Father who eventually drove my Mother to suicide.....I respect a marriage when it is a good one but, I do not respect marriage as an institution.......not when it is estimated that 60% of men and 30% of women in the country cheat. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
woinlove Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Alice2012, I have been married and then involved in 3 very long term relationships and I have never cheated on any of the men I have loved. I will accept a lot of criticism here but, please do not suggest that I am not capable of being faithful. As to the matter of respecting marriage......I grew up with a cheating Father who eventually drove my Mother to suicide.....I respect a marriage when it is a good one but, I do not respect marriage as an institution.......not when it is estimated that 60% of men and 30% of women in the country cheat. Do the statistics (which vary widely, the more scholary ones I have seen put the percentages considerably lower) really influence your own values? It is estimated that about 70% of people cheat on their taxes - does that influence what you think about cheating on taxes? To me happiness is being true to and honoring oneself, so that one feels good about one's actions -- not living according to the value of others, particularly according to the values of those who choose to deceive and cheat, rather than to live authentically. Having said that, to me personally it is not about honoring the institution of marriage, but about honoring myself and others and treating others as I like to be treated. If I know a man has made an ongoing commitment to another woman and wants something with me that is kept secret so as to give the illusion that he is honoring that commitment, it doesn't really matter to me if he has been legally married for 10 years or living common-law for 10 years. The values he and I would be displaying and how we would be treating others, and what we would each be saying about how we view ourselves, if we do enter into a secret A, are very similar to me in both cases. I understand that others, particularly those who view marriage from a religious perspective, may feel differently. I'm more concerned with values and character than institutions. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bailey14 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 I am not involved in an EMR because of statistics......I care deeply about this man. I just have a hard time respecting the institution of marriage when a sizable number of people living within that institution don't respect it. I struggle with this relationship on a daily basis and that is my dilemma.....I know what I should do and I know what I have been doing, hence the reason for working with a therapist. Link to post Share on other sites
woinlove Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I am not involved in an EMR because of statistics......I care deeply about this man. I just have a hard time respecting the institution of marriage when a sizable number of people living within that institution don't respect it. I struggle with this relationship on a daily basis and that is my dilemma.....I know what I should do and I know what I have been doing, hence the reason for working with a therapist. If you care deeply about him, then I'm sure you'd like him to stop being a liar and cheater. There are 2 routes to that, ending the marriage or ending the A. Neither guarantees that he will stop lying and cheating, but the continuation of both his M and the secret A guarantees that he is still waking up each morning as a cheater. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bailey14 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 I started posting here because I have a problem......if walking away from the relationship were as easy as the intellectual exercise of examining values, actions, and repercussions I never would have started the thread. I am here to learn, ask questions, listen and, eventually, do the right thing. Intellectually, I know what I need to do........it's those pesky emotions that keep getting in the way. Woinlove, what you say is right on the money and I appreciate your feedback. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 So it's simply really... In order to honor yourself and his marriage - you COULS end it. Ending it would clear YOUR conscience about continuing any wrong doing. Ending it would BE honoring the right thing for YOU Ending it would eliminate the need to have a counselor tell you what you need to do (and save you money). You already know in your gut what's right - you just haven't DONE it - YET. This really isn't about what HE is or isn't going to do - its about YOU and what YOU are or aren't going to DO. You do have choices - to pretend that YOU don't have choices is passively ALLOWING this to continue... So at this point ALLOWING it - is what appears the obstacle. So... The solution is to stop ALLOWING it. YOU do have that CHOICE. That is the one thing you CAN do. Link to post Share on other sites
woinlove Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I started posting here because I have a problem......if walking away from the relationship were as easy as the intellectual exercise of examining values, actions, and repercussions I never would have started the thread. I am here to learn, ask questions, listen and, eventually, do the right thing. Intellectually, I know what I need to do........it's those pesky emotions that keep getting in the way. Woinlove, what you say is right on the money and I appreciate your feedback. Well, you will get out of this A -- you are not going to be an OW with this MM 5 years from now, still posting about how difficult it is to end, right? And a lot of perspective comes from hindsight. What I have learned is that in those cases when I felt an initial spark/attraction which was undeniable to me, but which neither of us acted on or even acknowledged to each other, and instead we put in the effort to become real friends, honest-out-in-open-friends, including getting to know each other's families, those cases have endured as lasting friendships where I can sit around with them and their children and feel good about the impact we have had in each other's lives. Meanwhile, I know that I didn't see xMM at his most honorable and whatever positive I might have added to his life has to be mixed with the deception and inauthentic living that accompanied it. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 The only way to know if she can DO it - is to try it! This is where something is better than doing nothing. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bailey14 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 I have tried it..........twice. Didn't stick either time. The next time will be the last time with the help of a supportive therapist. We all seem to agree that an EMR is a form of an addiction, right? So imagine if I billed myself as the guru of quitting smoking and then after assembling all the would-be smokers in a hotel ballroom I told them the magic answer......hey addicts, just quit!!! Imagine the hordes demanding their money back. I know I need to end this relationship.......it is doing that is the tough part. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bailey14 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Well, you will get out of this A -- you are not going to be an OW with this MM 5 years from now, still posting about how difficult it is to end, right? And a lot of perspective comes from hindsight. What I have learned is that in those cases when I felt an initial spark/attraction which was undeniable to me, but which neither of us acted on or even acknowledged to each other, and instead we put in the effort to become real friends, honest-out-in-open-friends, including getting to know each other's families, those cases have endured as lasting friendships where I can sit around with them and their children and feel good about the impact we have had in each other's lives. Meanwhile, I know that I didn't see xMM at his most honorable and whatever positive I might have added to his life has to be mixed with the deception and inauthentic living that accompanied it. May God help me if I am still doing this in 5 years!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I have tried it..........twice. Didn't stick either time. The next time will be the last time with the help of a supportive therapist. We all seem to agree that an EMR is a form of an addiction, right? So imagine if I billed myself as the guru of quitting smoking and then after assembling all the would-be smokers in a hotel ballroom I told them the magic answer......hey addicts, just quit!!! Imagine the hordes demanding their money back. I know I need to end this relationship.......it is doing that is the tough part. Do, or do not. Don't try. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I have tried it..........twice. Didn't stick either time. The next time will be the last time with the help of a supportive therapist. We all seem to agree that an EMR is a form of an addiction, right? So imagine if I billed myself as the guru of quitting smoking and then after assembling all the would-be smokers in a hotel ballroom I told them the magic answer......hey addicts, just quit!!! Imagine the hordes demanding their money back. I know I need to end this relationship.......it is doing that is the tough part. These are all just excuses you are telling yourself - the excuses that keep you stuck. Decide! Pick any day this week and then stick to THAT DECISION! The best time for anything new and healthy is NOW!!! Just jump! Doing nothing isn't changing this or making it any better or easier... So it's time to do something rather than nothing... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Bailey, if you feel that you want to end the relationship, and you want this time to be the time that sticks, perhaps the following will be useful to you. Make sure all your support systems are in place , then , when you are ready, pick a date on which you will end the relationship.Do whatever you feel you need to do to get closure before that date, and when the date rolls around, make a clean break. Make sure that you have your support ready for the aftermath, and allow yourself time to grieve the relationship. Don't beat yourself up if it's a situation of "one step forward, two steps back"...just keep forging ahead, one day at a time. Treat yourself to something special each day( extra time at a hobby, an extra relaxing long bath, whatever) and find time each day to totally "de- stress". If you have time and the funds t do it, treat yourself to something really special ( a trip, etc.) once you make it to the six month point. It gives you extra incentive to reach that goal. Cry and be sad if you need to, that's okay. Try new hobbies, meet new people, and, if and when yu feel ready, open your heart to meeting someone new, even if it's only that you find a new friend. You have so much to offer. See if you can identify the problems you had the last two times you ended the relationship, and address them preemptively ( if you can) Be gentle and kind to yourself...if you need help on here, we all think a lot of you and would be more than happy to help, even if all we can do is provide a place for you to "unload" and get some support when you're ready, you can do it 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bailey14 Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Sprouts, you asked if I could identify the problems I had the last two times I ended the relationship......that's easy. The heartache I felt was overwhelming. I went through the motions of living my life but, the pain made it hard for me to breathe. The pain of having him out of my life is so much worse than the pain of having him in my life. And that's the crux of the matter. It's the old pain vs. pleasure principle. I want to be in this relationship more than I want to be out of it. BTW, your words "we all think a lot of you" really touched my heart. I am not sure why you think a lot of me but, I appreciate it. You are a very special lady. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bailey14 Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 You'd better hope you don't get caught by his wife before you end it. Getting thrown under the bus will be FAR worse than ending it on your own. It certainly would solve the problem, wouldn't it?? Then the decision would be made for me.....I am much better at being left than doing the leaving. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think it would be useful to discuss with your counselor how to get past your disappointment and anger toward the men who have hurt you in your past... And how to devise a plan to stop choosing what is comfortable for you = men that you KNOW will hurt you! This IS your comfort zone - it is learned behavior. You can unlearn it. But you must be willing to choose opposite for yourself - opposite from anything you've ever chosen in your past. Your choice define who you are. You don't need to be that girl who choose to hurt herself anymore. You chose him knowing he would bring you pain and suffering... That is the part that's familiar. Time to let go of what's familiar and invoke the necessary change. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think it would be useful to discuss with your counselor how to get past your disappointment and anger toward the men who have hurt you in your past... And how to devise a plan to stop choosing what is comfortable for you = men that you KNOW will hurt you! This IS your comfort zone - it is learned behavior. You can unlearn it. But you must be willing to choose opposite for yourself - opposite from anything you've ever chosen in your past. Your choice define who you are. You don't need to be that girl who choose to hurt herself anymore. You chose him knowing he would bring you pain and suffering... That is the part that's familiar. Time to let go of what's familiar and invoke the necessary change. this makes sense, and I think a lot of us have, at one time another, found ourselves repeating a bad pattern of behavior and picking relationships we know are bad for us. Maybe it's because we are used to it so it's within our "comfort zone" to do so, maybe we don't feel we deserve any better, maybe we are repeating patterns we saw growing up. The thing seems to be to recognize when the negative aspects of a relationship outweigh the good. Is a relationship making act in ways you don't like, is it causing you to be sad and hurt a lot of the time, is it changing you into someone you don't like or keeping you from something better, does it help you be the best that you can be? to answer your question bailey, I see in you someone who is kind, someone who has empathy, someone who is just trying to make her way in the world...I see a lot of goodness in you, and I hope you can see that in yourself too:) Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bailey14 Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Sprouts, you are so kind.......your posts make me cry. Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Sprouts, you are so kind.......your posts make me cry. oh...I don't want to make you sad:( i'm just telling things like I see them...you have so much to offer, and I think that whichever guy is lucky enough to get you will find himself with someone who is very loving and loyal to him it makes me sad that you have had a rough go of things in your romantic relationships, and I think you deserve so much better I think most on here will certainly agree Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bailey14 Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 oh...I don't want to make you sad:( i'm just telling things like I see them...you have so much to offer, and I think that whichever guy is lucky enough to get you will find himself with someone who is very loving and loyal to him it makes me sad that you have had a rough go of things in your romantic relationships, and I think you deserve so much better I think most on here will certainly agree Your posts don't make me sad.....they make me think and they touch my heart. Thank you!!! Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Bailey... how have you been? I hope you are doing well. have you met with you therapist/counselor lately? Are you still finding it helpful to you? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Bailey14 Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 Hey, Sprouts, how are you? I am doing fine......got some horribly tragic news yesterday and all of a sudden my life looks golden in comparison. Can you tell me how I might message you privately???? Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Hi Bailey... How is the counseling going? Remember the serenity prayer? Willing to change the things I CAN... That is the part that involves you - and what you can change... Hugs Hope your tragedy settles down - let us know how we can help. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Hey, Sprouts, how are you? I am doing fine......got some horribly tragic news yesterday and all of a sudden my life looks golden in comparison. Can you tell me how I might message you privately???? hi bailey...sorry you got some bad news...sometimes it makes what we have look so much better when that happens...makes on realize just how lucky they are you can private message me on here ( i tried to send you one to get things started, but it doesn't show that as an option for you yet. maybe you have to enable private messaging or have a certain number of posts ?) i would be more than happy to write to you that way:) Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Hi Bailey... How is the counseling going? Remember the serenity prayer? Willing to change the things I CAN... That is the part that involves you - and what you can change... Hugs Hope your tragedy settles down - let us know how we can help. excellent advice (btw..bailey..i checked under the FAQ section re: Private messages, and you have to enable that option. you go into "myprofile/cp" at the top of the page to do so- hope this helps) Link to post Share on other sites
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