need advice about party and wet t-shirt competition.

[Pyrannaste]

Question for you: do you actually think that he'll stop going once you're out of the picture? This actually makes me smile. I don't think so.

 

Well, I guess he will stay out of the frat now. He didn't stop going to the meetings only for me, I guess he realized he is 32 years old.

I possibly am wrong, and I *hope* I am wrong, but I picture his next girlfriend enjoying the company of the lovely , nice guy I know *without* having to deal with him going to frat meetings where people get naked.

I am picturing him being glad his next girlfriend will NOT be jealous, and compare her to his 'hysterical ex'(That would be me). And it's not fair, because I wouldn't have become jealous if I had not to go through that sh*t for a year and half or so, knowing your bf is at a frat meeting with girls getting naked thinking he has the goddam right to do so. After I went through that I go into a frenzy at the mere idea he sees those girls.

I am also picturing him-and I know this is probably stupid-treating his new future girlfriend better than he treated me, or as good as he usually treats me (which is *very good* even if he is somewhat lacking in the frilly romance department) but *without* her having the same problems I used to have with him.

 

But that is stupid, and you are wiser than me.

 

 

You should be breaking up with him. Because you hate his friends, his frat, his party, his lifestyle! Why don't you just accept it? d

 

The problem is the part of me that says "he'd be perfect boyfriend if I had not the girls-in-his-frat problem".

And I'm hating myself now for being leading him to break up with me when it's two months he does not go to frat meetings.

 

Just say to him: "honey, I'll always ALWAYS always have a problem with it. Take it or leave it. It is beyond me to have naked chicks running around you. If these strangers are more important to you than myself, go!"

 

He knows now that some things are beyond me:)

Problem is that they are not strangers. Girls in his frat are his friends too.

I could handle the idea of a stranger running naked in front of him. I can't if that stranger he will see again and eventually become friends with.

 

Don't force yourself this hard. Pyrannaste, you'll never succeed in getting over your jealousy. It doesn't make you a bad person, or a good person or a strange person. This is yourself! It's part of yourself!

 

Thank you, my friend. Thanks a lot. I started crying when i read your post, your kind words mean a lot to me.

 

Honestely, Pyra girl, leave the sucker! Once and for all. I mean a man in his right mind will do anything to make you stop hurting, not ask you not to hurt. He hates the effects(your scenes), but looooves the cause (party party party).

 

Problem is, what is anything?

In the party case, it would mean avoiding to see friends of his he has not seen in a long time.

He sort of told me before sunday he could stay home, but it was in a "I could stay home, not seeing people who are important to me, to at least avoid your hysteric scenes" way. I would have gone in a guilt trip if he stayed home. And he'd have ended up hating me. Or stop loving me. hey, that's what he's apparently already doing!

 

Just...please, please please open your eyes and at least learn from this disaster!!!

 

Okay. Time for me to really start asking questions to myself.

What kind of man would I want to have a relationship with?

What is okay for me, what is it not?

Do i really love this man? How can i love him and hate a part of his life?

If he is thinking about dumping me, why don't I really start asking myself what is best for me?

Would he *really*be the right person for me?

This time was he serious? (it would not be the first time we break up... even if this one looks serious, he looks really fed up)

What could I do to fix some parts of my personality? How can i deal with jealousy? More important: what parts of my personality do NOT need to be fixed?

Can there still be chance of us staying together? Could he be happy with me again? And, could I be happy too?

[CurlyIam]

I have an idea. If you were to imagine what would make you happy right now, what would that be? How would you get there?

 

What would make you smile and froget about this heart acke? Dicover this, ask yourself what is it that makes you miserable and so something about that. Just stop thinking of this s***.IT's gone, you can't change it!

 

Think of your future, try to recreate your relationship, if possible. You think it's your fault, you're the guilty party(you know my oppinion, but it's about your feelings here, not about reality)? Well, go and ask him out to a nice romantic dinner and move on!

 

Just... get over this, once and for all. With or without him.

 

HAve a nice summer Pyra!

[FreeMe]

Here's another question you should be asking: do I want 32-year-old whose "friends" are mostly young college students?

 

Most people who were involved in a fraternity or sorority keep in touch with the alumni - the people who were there in the same years they attended university. Even in my 20s there was such a big difference between me and the college kids I was around. The things they did, they way they acted - it could be fun to watch sometimes, but I had already been through all that. And I went back to university full time at the age of 30 and the people I ended up being friends with were mostly other adult students like myself and the professors! I had more in common with some of the professors than the 20-year-old students. I have one friend who is 11 years younger - she was college age at the time - but she was very mature, very serious about her work. In fact, she's working on her phd now.

 

I also had a boyfriend who caused - actually created - my jealousy and then broke up with me for it!! What an ass.

[savethedrama4allama]

I agree with confused 123. We're all jealous and competitive creatuers to some degree, but this boils down to respect. I would never sit amongst naked guys who were pretending to give oral to an ash tray. Would you? Doesn't that sound rediculous? Thats proof that what your boyfriend is doing is wrong too. If he respected you, or was any amount of mature, he would excuse himself from the party when things got to this level. There ARE guys out there who wouldn't disrespect their girlfriends in that way, especially after you voiced your concerns.

[Confused123]

Hi Pyrannaste:

 

I just wrote the longest response to this thread and my computer got all screwy so here we go again...

 

YOU ARE NOT CRAZY!!! Please don't let him make you think that you are, don't let him make you feel like you overreacted to the situsation. You have every right to punch a pillow and kick your feet in the air, this is a very fustrating situsation... My ast boyfriend was the master of making me feel like I overreacted to the situsation or that i was just a plain crazy bit$h. I understand, i truly understand, how hard it can be to stand your ground when you have someone making you feel like your position is not just or that you are being a psycho, controlling, girlfriend... You are just reacting to what you feel is wrong. Just because he doesn't agree doesn't make you CRAZY!!! He is not respecting your feeling, he is not making you feel heard, of course you are going to react in a VERY fustrated way...

 

You said you are afraid that his next grilfriend is going to have this wonderful man, who doesn't belong to a frat, who doesn't have these issue and you are going to look like the crazy ex...

 

Well, sweetheart, this is NOT about a frat, this is not going to change anything, if he drops the frat, this about who he is as a person. If he is 32 and still going to college parties and looking at young girls run around naked, then he has some serious growing up to do. You may think he breaks up with you, that some girl is going to get it easy, no way, so other girl will just have another issue to deal with in regards to his immaturity... Until he makes an effort to see that he needs to grow up or he is going to live a very lonely life, then quitting a frat isn't going to change a thing.. He will find some other avenue to play out this immature behavior..

 

You seems like such a strong women, the advice you have given me, does not sound like a women that lets a man walk all over her, you are not someone who deserve this.. Tell him that if he wants to live the college life still, then maybe he should, but that you need more of man in your life, not a boy.. cause only a boy would let a women who cares about him so much ,walk away over some tits and as$.

 

Hang in there, I really do understand ho hard this is. I went out with my last boyfriend (actullay fiance) fo five years and we ended over a women at work that he was being inapporiate with. I had to cancel the wedding, sell my ring, sell my dress, I cost my parents alot in deposits. But, the hardest decision in life, shape who we grow to be as a person. Now he is a very lonely guy who tried very hard to get me back. However, I moved on and grew more in that year as a perosn then I have in my whole life...

 

One time a friend gave me some great advice "If you are gong to be alone, be alone, don't be alone in a relationship"

 

Hang in there Prynnaste, there will come a time, when you look back on this and thank god you held you ground on this.

[Cynico De Burgerhack]

I wish you could hear yourselves: all diving in with your finger-wagging and tutt-tutting. But while it is certainly true that those girls sound like sad infantile characters, you have all somehow managed to transfer their behavior into "Your Boyfriend is a Pig."

I find this says more about you lot than it does about him. Not once in all her long posts did Pyra say anything about her boyfriend's feelings towards these girls, or their behavior, that sounded in anyway negative. At most he seemed indifferent to their antics. Your prejudice towards men turned him into a bad person with evil intentions.

I happened to read this the morning after a visit to a strip/sex club (for business reasons). My girlfriend stayed at home (wasn't too bothered - knows I have to work with these places). Want to know what it's like for a healthy guy in that situation?

Simple: I saw naked women doing things that even your frat girls would blush at. And I know some of these girls. They are not total strangers to me. So it's like an extreme version of what your talking about.

But although what I saw made my heart beat a little faster I am not an just an animal who reacts to overt sexual behavior. I can tell the difference between those girls and my girlfriend. Remember that most men find it much easier to separate sexual behavior (even just looking) from any kind of emotional involvement.

 

From what you have said about your boyfriend he knows the difference too. I don't think you need to make this difference greater by being the only girl he knows with puffy red eyes and screaming fits. But then I amthe big bad wolf...

[Debster]

I can very easily put myself in your position - but I don't think I would go about it the way you have. Allow me to ramble.

 

My fiance is in his 30s and is in a fraternity. He joined the fraternity as he came from a small town and was going to a huge school and thought it would be easier to make friends. The fraternity granted had tons of piss up parties (by coincidence I went to the same school and was at the same frat parties, so I know), but being in a fraternity meant a lot more to him than making friends and getting drunk. The fraternity was part of what turned him into who he is. And I LOVE who he is. Now, as an alumni he is involved with alumni events and supporting the frat guys back at university by attending their formal events. We attend events together, as a couple.

 

At one event out of town, we got a hotel room. I saw he was enjoying being around his frat brothers so much that I was happy for him and offered to go back to his frat brothers (his best man in our wedding) home with his wife (who is also my friend now), so that my fiance and his best man could have a good pissup. They could have gone to the peelers. The could have called a peeler to go to their hotel room. They could have picked up a woman at the bar. But at no time was I concerned about his actions - because I trust him.

 

Granted, the party sounds like it will be scum-central. However - take comfort in the fact that if your guy wanted a woman like that - he would be with a woman like that. The fact is, he is with you. Now he might get all hot and horny watching it - but he is going home to YOU. As long as he parks his car in your garage, it doesn't matter.

 

While I agree, this party sounds like something I would want to avoid - IMO you overreacted and your jealous rant has turned your man off. Now it is not a case of his not listening to your feelings, it is a case of him not wanting to be controlled. A whole new ball of wax.

 

I suggest you work on your self esteem as it is often at the root of insecurities and realize that you can't control a guy. If he wanted to boink a woman like that - he would. With or without you saying anything.

 

Bottom line(s):

- You need to trust your guy

- You need to understand that being part of a fraternity is more than just drinking and partying, it can become part of their identity.

- You need to build your self-esteem

- You need to realize that temptation is everywhere and you'll drive yourself batty trying to remove temptation.

 

Good luck.

[Pyrannaste]

Hello Cynico De Burgerhack,

thank you for your imput.

 

Not once in all her long posts did Pyra say anything about her boyfriend's feelings towards these girls, or their behavior, that sounded in anyway negative.

 

Your prejudice towards men turned him into a bad person with evil intentions.

 

I don't think my bf's intentions were bad.

I genuinely believe him when he thinks it is perfectly okay to do that kind of stuff, that he saw nothing bad in what he was doing, and that he'd have no problems if I did it in my frat too.

 

I *never* thought that he had bad intentions, even if I didn't buy the "to me they would be the same if I had not seem them naked". Bullsh*t.

I firmly believe once you have seen a friend of you naked....or worse, someone who is not friend of you but it will probably become a friend of you, and a frat mate to you(and they got naked NOT accidentally but because you and other people in your frat told them to), it is never going to be a normal friendship.

When the first day you enter the fraternity you go naked and do stuff in front of people *who tell you to*, you will be *always* have a certain link with them and you will have a certain kind of intimacy with them, that comes from what has happened.

 

Problem is that even if he genuinely does not care about having seen them naked, and he went not to frat meetings to see naked girls, *to me* such behaviour is inacceptable when he is in a relationship with me.

I don't think you should have friends with whom the friendship started that way *and* still see them do that kind of stuff when you are in a relationship.

 

 

Sometimes people's intentions are not enough. Their action counts, too.

 

Simple: I saw naked women doing things that even your frat girls would blush at.

 

also, I don't care whatever my bf did when he was not in a relationship with me.

He and three male friends of him got together with a girl(acquaintance with one of them) who would do a blowjob to each of them. so what? he was not with me.

He first met one of his exes 'only to have sex' after a series of erotic chats with her. so what? He did pretty extreme stuff too.

 

I also saw things "that even your frat girls would blush at".

On my bedroom's mirror. So what?

And I know some of these girls. They are not total strangers to me. So it's like an extreme version of what your talking about.

 

I dare say there is some difference between "not total strangers" and "friends" (or 'people you have a frat link with').

 

Also, those girls you talk about are *paid* to do their job.

My bf was not paid to be there.

You don't have *anything* even remotely resembling a fraternity link with them.

 

So I dare say-again-the extreme version is mine, not yours.

 

 

 

But then I amthe big bad wolf...

 

If your gf is okay with what you do/see, you are not.

[Pyrannaste]

Hello debster, thank you very much for your reply.

 

While I agree, this party sounds like something I would want to avoid - IMO you overreacted and your jealous rant has turned your man off. Now it is not a case of his not listening to your feelings, it is a case of him not wanting to be controlled. A whole new ball of wax.

 

This is so true.

I guess my jealousy rant sounded halway controlling, halfway emotional blackmail.

Neither of which btw would work on my bf. They would instead be huge turnoffs and upset him.

 

What really worries me is that I overreacted to this party ....while knowing that even if there will be a braless wet t-shirt competition it will be no worse than any of his frat meetings....at least noone is hopefully going to take her panties off since it's not only between people from that frat. And my bf hasn't been to frat meetings for three months. Why couldn't I just concentrate on that???

I didn't*really* react to the party...I acted to things happened in the past.

And which I should really let go of.

The party is only point of an iceberg to me.

 

Granted, the party sounds like it will be scum-central. However - take comfort in the fact that if your guy wanted a woman like that - he would be with a woman like that.

 

I am sort of upset at him so I'm going to say something really evil.

Like no, he would not. Not many of the girls in his frat would screw him. They go for the lean cute-looking guys.

(how's this for distruptive behaviour?)

 

Now, as an alumni he is involved with alumni events and supporting the frat guys back at university by attending their formal events.

 

I forgot to mention that what he is in resembles an US frat, but it is not *that*alike. People in this kind of frat don't support/help each other at university, it is more a fun-oriented thing.

 

The fraternity was part of what turned him into who he is. And I LOVE who he is.

 

Very true. And that's part of my problem. How can I love him if I hate his frat, which is/was a big part of his life and contributed making him whom he is?

 

Bottom line(s):

- You need to trust your guy

- You need to understand that being part of a fraternity is more than just drinking and partying, it can become part of their identity.

- You need to build your self-esteem

- You need to realize that temptation is everywhere and you'll drive yourself batty trying to remove temptation.

 

Excellent advice.

 

problems are:

-I trust him not to physically cheat on me, because he's not that kind of guy. He'd not. Or at least I believe so.

If he met someone really interesting to him I guess he'd try to get to know her better and eventually dump me for her. Not cheat on me.

But what i need is trusting him not to put himself in certain situations like the ones that occur at frat meetings.

Perhaps it would be asking too much from him?!?

 

- true....and this is a big problem too. this is part of his identity. Which scares me.

 

- I really should do something to improve my self esteem...I must find a way to manage it.

 

- Problem, again, is not temptation. Frat stuff to me is not a temptation, it is more like cheating.

I'd rather have my bf get a blowjob from a hooker than be at 'frat rituals'where him and his frat mates are telling a girl to get naked, and do weird stuff.

At least the hooker would disappear from his life.

To me *sometimes* looking is like cheating, yes

(just to put things in perspective...I never had a problem with his huge stack of porn pics(at least 20000 pics. I have with real women he's going to see again. )

[Debster]

I guess, in Canada - at least as far as I am aware - those type of fraternities don't exist. What I know of are fraternities and sororities. I didn't know there were combined frats. Sounds to me like this is a bit more like a brothel.

Must say, I learned something new today.

 

Put aside the party and the women. Is he the kind of guy you can love, respect and trust? Based on your response to my post - it doesn't seem like you are sure.