Could you deal with your sister/daughter/female friend converting to Islam?

[Eclypse]

And this is why I don't want to subscribe to any religion. How can you take any of them seriously when so many people have been killed in their name? They are all backwards. Christians have arguably spilled the most blood but a lot of people seem to have conveniently forgotten the Ottoman conquests in Europe. My country in particular (in the Balkans) was under pretty horrific Muslim rule for several centuries with its citizens reduced to second class vermin. That sort of thing is not easily forgotten.

 

It is all so contradicting. On one hand the bible preaches forgiveness and mercy on the other it really makes you scratch your head. Take Deuteronomy 22:28-29 for example: "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." Yeah that sounds like a lot of fun.

 

Then there are gems like Genesis 17:1-14 which says the covenant is everlasting and that all males are to be circumcised yet if one looks at Galatians 6:15 he seems to say that circumcision doesn't matter. Well which one is it dammit! I realise this is the new testament and all but when God himself says something is everlasting then surely it is... except when the big cheese changes his mind at a whim of course. How are we even supposed to take this guy seriously? There are a million others like this.

 

Then of course there are Muslims which I touched on before. This is my personal favourite quote from Bukhari (72:715) - "A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires."

Well wasn't that nice of him.

 

See the problem with religion is it doesn't evolve. It stays rigid and unbending. If I could direct your attention to this news story which I am sure most of you have probably heard of on the news. The bloodlust faced by the 'blaspheming' Saudi journalist | Andrew Brown | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

 

This poor fellow is likely going to be executed for expressing his views. What is even more frightening is it was the 10s of thousands of individual tweeters in Saudi Arabia that are calling for his blood, not to mention the government of Malaysia which decided to deport him back to Saudi Arabia. Of course I do not need to mention all the cases of stoning and the cutting off of hands etc.

 

Now this post might get me a lot of hate. I would just like to say that I do have friends of all faiths, however I find I just can't connect with the ones who take it too seriously. After all one is supposed to follow the words of the scriptures and if you don't then you can't really call yourself a member of that religion can you? And when all the scriptures condone rape, murder, slavery etc it all becomes a little hard to swallow. It does seem to me though that once people move to a new country the become more acclimatized to the general culture there which is why there is probably not as many radical extremists here (although there are definitely some).

 

In conclusion I would just like to say that the most rational religion one can have is science. At least the aim of that is to answer questions and pose challenges to current theories.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Eclypse

[denise_xo]

here is evidence of jihad

 

Citizen Warrior: Hate Speech

 

and your point is?

[quankanne]

The majority of Muslim scholars hold to the traditional view that apostasy is punishable by death or imprisonment until repentance, at least for adult men of sound mind.

 

the Catholic faith has something similar, called "ex-communication." Thankfully, there's no blood-letting involved. However, for a true believer, there's something worse: Not being allowed to receive the Eucharist, which is the very heart of our faith. It's one thing to be a casual practitioner of your faith and choose not to go to church, where you receive communion, or to be in a temporary situation where you can't receive, but to be told you are no longer privileged until you've reconciled with the Church? That's some pretty harsh stuff.

 

as far as someone converting to a whole 'nother faith practice, that's really a personal response to a call they hear in their heart. Whether or not we agree isn't the point, but whether they've found a spiritual home that leads them to God is.

 

people tend to fear the worst about what they are ignorant of, rather than keep an open mind. Hell, just look at the reception Hispanics are given in a country that in some places, used to belong to them!

[denise_xo]

In conclusion I would just like to say that the most rational religion one can have is science. At least the aim of that is to answer questions and pose challenges to current theories.

 

I think the most rational thing to do is to have no religion (in the broad meaning of the word) whatsoever. People not only get religious about religious faith, but also about political convictions and various -isms (communism, liberalism, veganism, whatever). It's when people stop to critically reflect upon their beliefs and continuously test them out on reality that it all goes horribly wrong. I think religion can inspire people to do good, but any faith or -ism which is read in a literalist or non reflective way is bound to distort.

[Eclypse]

I think the most rational thing to do is to have no religion (in the broad meaning of the word) whatsoever. People not only get religious about religious faith, but also about political convictions and various -isms (communism, liberalism, veganism, whatever). It's when people stop to critically reflect upon their beliefs and continuously test them out on reality that it all goes horribly wrong. I think religion can inspire people to do good, but any faith or -ism which is read in a literalist or non reflective way is bound to distort.

 

I agree with you 100%

[aj22one]

I know I couldn't. I read Aridane's comments in this thread and I just don't understand why someone would want to convert to a religion where you're supposed to be killed for straying the second time. Not to mention the attitude towards women and the social consequences of being a Muslim in America nowadays. For a female it seems very self destructive to me, like living with an abusive husband almost. I like to think of myself as a tolerant and open minded person but I also think I would blow a gasket if I found out my sister was converting.

 

Just though I'd chime in here. My gf is Muslim (born Muslim, so not a convert) and our relationship is just the same is it would be even if she weren't. Her family has met me (and they know I'm not Muslim) and we're both still alive (in case anyone has gotten concerned for my safety by this point in my post ).

 

Women in Islamic countries were some of the first women in world history who had the legally recognized right to work and own property. Heck Muhammad worked for his first wife (she owned a merchant business). I don't see anything inherently anti-woman about Islam. Sure some cultural practices are pretty bad but they're not intrinsic to the faith itself.

 

Now about "killing" someone for straying a second time. My gf is a libertarian (an anarchist to be exact) and a PhD candidate in political philosophy. It is her contention that since the death of Muhammad coercive enforcement of Sharia by any government (even one calling itself "Islamic") is both immoral and unIslamic (the Qur'an saying stuff like "there's no compulsion in religion" and stuff like that). In essence, without the last prophet Muhammad, Islamic government has no legitimacy. Sharia traditions have to be kept by the individual or not at all. She's definitely outside the mainstream in many ways, but it goes to show there ain't nothing intrinsically coercive about Islam.

[Ariadne]

Could you deal with your sister/daughter/female friend converting to Islam?

 

To be honest, my mother still doesn't get it and gets very upset any time I mention going to the mosque or meeting with my sisters, or even the word Allah.

 

She says, stop it with that Allah!

 

 

She also believes that it is not my culture, hates the way they dress (she wants me to be modern/stylish) and not to say the hijab (the scarf).

 

She thinks that I'm dressed in costumes and that the hijab is ridiculous. I once sent her a picture wearing it and she said that she cried.

 

I've tried explaining Islam to her but she just gets upset and doesn't want to hear it so I have stopped trying at least for now.

 

My son has also converted to Islam, and I had his father on the phone yelling at me.

 

He said that my son is now "Of the band of the Taliban" and that he was going to get arrested by the FBI.

 

But my son and I are very happy that we have found the straight path that is Islam, and we love our religion more the more we know about it.

 

Here are some

from the Quran and the Sunnah.

[darkmoon]

and your point is?

 

read the banners they are holding

 

http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2010/08/hate-speech.html

[denise_xo]

read the banners they are holding

 

Citizen Warrior: Hate Speech

 

I still don't quite see the relationship between that and what I wrote in my post that you quoted?

[darkmoon]

given what your posts here have been, candidly, i think you should get the stardust out from your eyes

 

Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time

[Feelin Frisky]

I have four sisters one of which might as well be living in an oppressive extremist Muslim household--her husband is a Christian zealot who has moved the family far away from everyone else so that he can be law and lord with no chance of anyone influencing my sister or her children. Two of my other sisters are grossly immature and irresponsible for their age and I'd consider conversion to Islam some kind of step in a direction that makes any kind of sense--which as an atheist is practically no sense but at least some order and discipline. The other sister is married to a mental case Jew and for her own sake, I think conversion to Islam might save her if it means getting this nut job out of her life. If he doesn't split over it, that would make for one crazy household.

[denise_xo]

I have four sisters one of which might as well be living in an oppressive extremist Muslim household--her husband is a Christian zealot who has moved the family far away from everyone else so that he can be law and lord with no chance of anyone influencing my sister or her children. Two of my other sisters are grossly immature and irresponsible for their age and I'd consider conversion to Islam some kind of step in a direction that makes any kind of sense--which as an atheist is practically no sense but at least some order and discipline. The other sister is married to a mental case Jew and for her own sake, I think conversion to Islam might save her if it means getting this nut job out of her life. If he doesn't split over it, that would make for one crazy household.

 

 

Oh dear.

[darkmoon]

[fortyninethousand322]

I have many friends who are Muslim. None has ever harmed me or threatened to harm me. I'm a Christian but I think Islam is a wonderful religion. So I wouldn't care if anyone I knew male or female converted to Islam.

[ffw]

I have four sisters one of which might as well be living in an oppressive extremist Muslim household--her husband is a Christian zealot who has moved the family far away from everyone else so that he can be law and lord with no chance of anyone influencing my sister or her children. Two of my other sisters are grossly immature and irresponsible for their age and I'd consider conversion to Islam some kind of step in a direction that makes any kind of sense--which as an atheist is practically no sense but at least some order and discipline. The other sister is married to a mental case Jew and for her own sake, I think conversion to Islam might save her if it means getting this nut job out of her life. If he doesn't split over it, that would make for one crazy household.

 

Modern family

[somedude81]

To all the people who are saying that many horrible things were done in the past in the name of Jesus. Remember that the key word is the past. No that doesn't mean that they are excused, but it means that it stopped happening.

 

While atrocities are still being committed in Muhammad's name.

[Queen Zenobia]

To all the people who are saying that many horrible things were done in the past in the name of Jesus. Remember that the key word is the past. No that doesn't mean that they are excused, but it means that it stopped happening.

 

While atrocities are still being committed in Muhammad's name.

 

I'm more worried about things like this being done in the name of "keeping drugs off the street".

Edited February 23, 2012 by Queen Zenobia

[Queen Zenobia]

Just though I'd chime in here. My gf is Muslim (born Muslim, so not a convert) and our relationship is just the same is it would be even if she weren't. Her family has met me (and they know I'm not Muslim) and we're both still alive (in case anyone has gotten concerned for my safety by this point in my post ).

 

Women in Islamic countries were some of the first women in world history who had the legally recognized right to work and own property. Heck Muhammad worked for his first wife (she owned a merchant business). I don't see anything inherently anti-woman about Islam. Sure some cultural practices are pretty bad but they're not intrinsic to the faith itself.

 

Now about "killing" someone for straying a second time. My gf is a libertarian (an anarchist to be exact) and a PhD candidate in political philosophy. It is her contention that since the death of Muhammad coercive enforcement of Sharia by any government (even one calling itself "Islamic") is both immoral and unIslamic (the Qur'an saying stuff like "there's no compulsion in religion" and stuff like that). In essence, without the last prophet Muhammad, Islamic government has no legitimacy. Sharia traditions have to be kept by the individual or not at all. She's definitely outside the mainstream in many ways, but it goes to show there ain't nothing intrinsically coercive about Islam.

 

Well you know how I feel about anarchy vs minarchy, but I think there's something very few people who are afraid of Islam are going to get. When a Muslim tries to kill or attack you that's illegal. When the government chainsaws your door or shoots your dogs during a home invasion because they think you might be a drug dealer, or when an innocent person gets executed, or when a teenage boy gets killed by the US military in a drone attack; it's all perfectly legal. No one goes to jail, all you get is an "oops" and maybe a lawsuit (which gets paid by the taxpayer anyway).

 

All these people worried about Islam need to grow up and realize that there are real problems right now that have nothing to do with religion.

[BetheButterfly]

I know I couldn't. I read Aridane's comments in this thread and I just don't understand why someone would want to convert to a religion where you're supposed to be killed for straying the second time. Not to mention the attitude towards women and the social consequences of being a Muslim in America nowadays. For a female it seems very self destructive to me, like living with an abusive husband almost. I like to think of myself as a tolerant and open minded person but I also think I would blow a gasket if I found out my sister was converting.

 

 

Hello Gaius,

 

I would be very sad, but yes I would support her decision, because freedom of religion is a very important right.

 

As for abusive husbands, there are abusive Atheists, Christians, Hindus,... what makes a husband not abusive is their personal convictions, not so much their religion or lack of it.

 

There are also wonderful husbands who are Atheists, Christians, Muslims, Hindus... again - it's a matter of the heart.

 

As a Christian who loves to study Jesus' teachings and strives to abide by them, it is important to me that Jesus did not teach his followers to mock, insult, harass, oppress, hurt, or kill ex followers. Rather, he just focused on asking if his followers who stayed with him no longer wanted to believe in him.

 

John 6 (NIV) - I boldened some.

 

" 60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?” 61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.

68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

 

 

My family and many of my friends are Christian. However, if any of them ever becomes a Muslim or an Atheist or of any other belief (or lack of belief in God) than I respect their right to do so, though it would sadden me.

 

 

 

Jesus prophesied that in the many people would turn away from the faith (in him) and that happens.

 

 

 

Matthew 24 (NIV)

 

 

"4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

 

 

So, if a family member or friend ever becomes of another faith, I would just pray for her or him.

[BetheButterfly]

The fact is that Christianity is the bloodiest and most violent of all civilizations in all of history, responsible for millions of deaths inflicted by Christians. The Crusades, arguably the expansion of the Roman Empire, the Reformation, the Inquisition, the African slave trade, the colonial conquests, deaths in WWI and WWII (Hitler was a Christian who waged war on millions of a different faith), ... And moving into more modern times, slaughtering of Rwandans and genocide in Bosnia.

 

The truth is, ALL religions sometimes use war, violence and terrorism to promote their religious agendas and goals.

 

And it's not like extreme Christian Americans are all that great when it comes to their treatment and views of women either. Just ask Chris Brown or Rick Santorum.

 

It is important to see what the Holy Scriptures of the leader(s) of a belief teach. Jesus does not teach his followers to kill. Below are some of the teachings that Jesus taught, which sadly, many people who call(ed) themselves Christians did/do not follow. However, it is important to remember what the Leader of the belief in question taught, as opposed to what the followers do.

 

Matthew 5 (NIV) - I boldened some.

 

"1 Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2 and he began to teach them.The Beatitudes

 

He said: 3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,

for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4 Blessed are those who mourn,

for they will be comforted.

5 Blessed are the meek,

for they will inherit the earth.

6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,

for they will be filled.

7 Blessed are the merciful,

for they will be shown mercy.

8 Blessed are the pure in heart,

for they will see God.

9 Blessed are the peacemakers,

for they will be called children of God.

10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,

for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

 

 

 

Luke 6 (NIV) - I boldened some.

 

 

" 27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Judging Others

 

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

 

So, Christians who kill and hurt others, instead of praying for them, blessing them, doing good to them, and loving them, are not obeying Jesus' teachings.

[Ariadne]

My family and many of my friends are Christian. However, if any of them ever becomes a Muslim or an Atheist or of any other belief (or lack of belief in God) than I respect their right to do so, though it would sadden me.

 

It shouldn't sadden you if they become Muslims, you should be rejoiced.

 

Muslims believe that Jesus is the Messiah, that he was born of Virgin Mary as announced by angel Gabriel, that Jesus is the anointed one and was given the power of miracles by God, that Jesus was a prophet that came to guide mankind, that he has ascended to Heaven by God, and that he will come in the day of judgement.

 

I guess the only difference is that Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God (one and the same) because they believe that there is nothing like God the almighty.

 

Other than that, you should look into the Quran as the last revelation of God (given by angel Gabriel to Muhammad) and you will be surprised.

 

The Quran doesn't say to kill someone that has turned from Islam, that is just the interpretation of some scholars but not all. I believe the idea is to discourage people from doing that as they would be misguided.

[BetheButterfly]

It shouldn't sadden you if they become Muslims, you should be rejoiced.

 

I am a Christian. I am not a Muslim. I believe that Muhammad is one of the false prophets that Jesus prophesied would come into the world and deceive many, so yes, it would sadden me if a person went astray, due to any false prophet.

 

Matthew 24 (NIV) - I boldened some.

 

"3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” 4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[Daniel 9:27; 11:31; 12:11] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time."

 

 

 

Muslims believe that Jesus is the Messiah, that he was born of Virgin Mary as announced by angel Gabriel, that Jesus is the anointed one and was given the power of miracles by God, that Jesus was a prophet that came to guide mankind, that he has ascended to Heaven by God, and that he will come in the day of judgement.

 

Jesus is indeed the Messiah (which means Anointed One), was born of the virgin Mary, did miracles, and taught the people. He did ascend into Heaven and will come back. However, Muslims believe that Jesus did not truly die on the cross. They also believe that Jewish people and Christians corrupted the Tanakh and the injil (gospel). Jesus, however, did die on the cross, which fulfills many prophesies concerning him (see Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53) and Jesus did not teach that the Scripture was corrupted no, but rather that he fulfills the Scripture.

 

Matthew 5 (NIV) - I boldened some of the words of Jesus:

 

"7 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

 

I guess the only difference is that Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God (one and the same) because they believe that there is nothing like God the almighty.

 

As you can see above, there are many other crucial differences, including the command Jesus taught to love one's enemies.

Other than that, you should look into the Quran as the last revelation of God (given by angel Gabriel to Muhammad) and you will be surprised.

 

I have read much of the Quran, and it is contradicts in many ways the Bible, both the Tanakh (the Jewish Scriptures) and the New Testament.

 

The Quran doesn't say to kill someone that has turned from Islam, that is just the interpretation of some scholars but not all.

 

Many Muslims take very seriously the punishment for apostates. I would encourage you to study how exMuslims live, and you will see that many no longer go to Muslim dominated countries, because they know their lives are in danger there. I would also encourage you to study the life of Muhammad, and what he said and did to people who were Muslims but then left his group.

 

I believe the idea is to discourage people from doing that as they would be misguided.

 

I thank God that Jesus did not command his followers to kill those who no longer follow him. Why do you think Jesus did not command this?

 

Discouraging people from leaving a belief through threat of violence against them is just controlling by fear. Christian beliefs are not based on fear, but are based on the love of God for everyone, including sinners and including people that other people condemn.

 

1 John 4 (NIV) - I boldened some.

 

"7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. 13 This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

19 We love because he first loved us. 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister."

[Eve]

Didn't read many posts but here are my thoughts.

 

I would be concerned only about the reasons for the conversion. Mostly I would be cautious that the conversion was not simply about personifying what they personally reject - rather than a reaching out to a belief. I see this a lot in people with or without religion and have concluded it is a means of hiding from aspects of the self and has nothing to do with God.

 

So, I see light in all the faiths but do think that sometimes people join up for the wrong reasons and this would be my emphasis when speaking to someone I care for who is going to convert.

 

In total, if say my daughter was interested in the theology of the religion I would advise that she formally learn this and spiritually test it out prior to committing to Islam as a way of life.

 

I would advise this equally before entering into any other faith as I do believe that the passage from what is psychological to what is spiritual can be confusing for many.

 

So mostly I would help her within her definition of what is sacred and support her as she tries out different practices; ceremony and ritual, spiritual awakenings, meditation, Sacred Service, Prayer etc.

 

I could do this with my daughter mainly because I have a broad understanding of faith - but would advise that if a person is not able to be supportive that they stay out of it and help the person to find someone who can help them.. as you do when you love or care for someone.

 

 

The best place I would say to explore religion and spirituality is within the Quakers.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[zengirl]

Islam is a much misunderstood religion.

 

That said, traditionalists of any religion are generally sexist towards the roles of women, by modern standards, and I would find that hard to understand, yes if someone had not been raised in it. But there is modern Islam, just as there is modern Christianity.

 

Fundamentalist Islam and fundamentalist Christianity are actually very similar in terms of their treatment of women, IMO.

[BetheButterfly]

Islam is a much misunderstood religion.

 

That said, traditionalists of any religion are generally sexist towards the roles of women, by modern standards, and I would find that hard to understand, yes if someone had not been raised in it. But there is modern Islam, just as there is modern Christianity.

 

Fundamentalist Islam and fundamentalist Christianity are actually very similar in terms of their treatment of women, IMO.

 

Hello again Zengirl

 

I think many religions are misunderstood. Religions have interested me for a long time and to me it is interesting to compare the key figures in the religions. When I study the life of Jesus and how he treated women, for example, I did not see a sexist attitude from Jesus toward the women in his life. So, I think that the fundamentalists in Christian beliefs who have been sexist against women did so not based on Jesus' teachings, but on traditions. For example, after Jerusalem was destroyed, the leaders of the Christians shifted to Gentile Christians, most of them being Greek or Roman scholars. In general Greek culture, women were considered property, so I think that cultural traditions tended to stick on people who converted to Christian beliefs.

 

Muhammad, by the way, did actually help improve a bit the Arabic culture's view on women. He did try to help them see that having daughters was a good thing, not a horrible thing, and he did increase in other ways the value of women in his culture. However, sad to say, many people in his culture today continue to treat women as property and continue to prefer boys to girls. Muhammad's marrying of many wives and having female slaves, as well as limiting rights of women did not help, nor did the teaching that in Heaven, 72 beautiful houris await a jihadist help in presenting women as valuable persons instead of sex objects. However, I do have Muslim friends who treat women beautifully. There are Muslims who have only one wife and who treat her with love, kindness, and caring, who respect women and who encourage women to study, to have a brilliant career, and to make a difference in their society. So, it really depends on the individual, same as in Christian beliefs and in Hindu beliefs and in Buddhist beliefs and in Jewish Orthodox beliefs and so on.