NXS Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 If some people feel that marriage isn't a good deal then those people won't get married, why is that a problem? There are consequences of the breakdown in the family especially where children are concerned, they have negative affects that can lead to all kinds of problems when they get older. Also there's too much interference in the family by the state, more and more laws and intrusion, it's like the state is now a third party in the marriage. Most people don't realise this until it's too late because nobody tells them what they're getting into. I don't see anything in it for men anymore, maybe some of the posters here can say what men have to gain from getting married? Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I beg to differ. I think you can be happily married and still recognize that the rest of the world is a bad place. When you've gone through stuff like having been cheated on and having been treated badly, the last thing you want is ever go through those horrible emotions again, so naturally you look out for signs in order to protect yourself from pain. And when you see what's going on in the majority of relationships, it might set you off and spark the need to vent somewhere in order to keep those bad feelings OUT of the relationship, which is exactly what Woggle is doing here and he has stated that numerous times. He doesn't title his threads as "just venting" on the contrary he sets them up to get maximum participation. Women respond in droves trying to convince Woggle that they aren't like all those awful " man haters" he talks about, others like myself, freely admit to him that we have no use for committed relationships with men, no answer helps him, no answer soothes him for long. Sorry but I fail to see how allowing ourselves to be used as Woggle's virtual toilet bowl helps anybody including Woggle. Link to post Share on other sites
Negative Nancy Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Sorry but I fail to see how allowing ourselves to be used as Woggle's virtual toilet bowl helps anybody including Woggle So what would be helpful in your opinion then Link to post Share on other sites
Author Woggle Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 I can't see where in this thread I insulted or spread hatred against women. I very much say both sides share blame. Link to post Share on other sites
Crusoe Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Read Post 18 + 5 or so years of hatred of a similar standard. Take care, Eve x Eve, I think you're a sweetheart, you know that, but post 18 was an obvious typo and hatred is far too strong a word for Woggle. We both know what real hate is and he is nowhere near it. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 There are consequences of the breakdown in the family especially where children are concerned, they have negative affects that can lead to all kinds of problems when they get older. Also there's too much interference in the family by the state, more and more laws and intrusion, it's like the state is now a third party in the marriage. Most people don't realise this until it's too late because nobody tells them what they're getting into. I don't see anything in it for men anymore, maybe some of the posters here can say what men have to gain from getting married? Personally I don't think what you can gain from marriage is worth the costs involved for men ... or women. Others feel differently. If the majority of people decide that marriage as it is currently practiced is no longer worth the effort then either marriage will change or people will start conducting their intimate relationships differently, including decisions related to reproduction. Link to post Share on other sites
Crusoe Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I don't see anything in it for men anymore, maybe some of the posters here can say what men have to gain from getting married? If you find a good woman you'll gain the world and everything in it. If you cant find a good one, its better to be single. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 So what would be helpful in your opinion then I'm advising him now just as I've advised him in the past. He goes to therapy yet he says his therapist nor his wife have any clue as to the sort of emotional double life he leads. He needs to be totally HONEST with the person treating him, he also needs to invite his wife to attend a session or three, he needs to take a deep breath & be honest with her as well. In short, to heal he's going to need to risk take & do some actual disclosure with those closest to him. Till he's willing to truly level with his therapist he's just going to keep treading water. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
NXS Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 If the majority of people decide that marriage as it is currently practiced is no longer worth the effort then either marriage will change or people will start conducting their intimate relationships differently, including decisions related to reproduction. Isn't that the whole point of this thread? To discuss marriage/gender relations generally? Why are you here if you don't want to discuss this? Link to post Share on other sites
Eve Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Eve, I think you're a sweetheart, you know that, but post 18 was an obvious typo and hatred is far too strong a word for Woggle. We both know what real hate is and he is nowhere near it. I hope you are right Crusoe. Me? I reckon there is a secret or two going untold. Seen it before. I hope one day Woggle learns to be truly open with those who reach out to him. If he doesn't he will continue to look even more dodgy than the people he is complaining about. Take care, Eve x Link to post Share on other sites
Author Woggle Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 It was a typo. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Isn't that the whole point of this thread? To discuss marriage/gender relations generally? Why are you here if you don't want to discuss this? Good question & truthfully I'm not sure why I'm here, probably because i haven't found a forum dedicated to divorced sluts yet. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Crusoe Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I hope you are right Crusoe. Me? I reckon there is a secret or two going untold. Seen it before. I hope one day Woggle learns to be truly open with those who reach out to him. If he doesn't he will continue to look even more dodgy than the people he is complaining about. Take care, Eve x I'm always right, didn't you know? ;-) From what I have read and from what I can remember, Woggle has walked the same rough house streets as me. Those streets soon teach you that being open gets you f*cked up real quick. Gotta be quick, gotta be smart, gotta have eyes in the back of your head. A bird will always hide a broken wing, if it shows it, it knows he is first for the slaughter. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sweetjasmine Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Maybe society is just crappy and the gender wars are a manifestation of that but it is clear that things these days are not working. What "gender wars"? You always use that phrase, but you've never been able to prove there are "gender wars." Your examples are always about individual humans treating other individual humans poorly. Guess what? That sh-t's been happening since the beginning of time, and it's not going to go away. It is better that I acknowledge these demons in me instead of just ignoring it and one day exploding. Letting things simmer and simmer just causes it to one day boil over. You never do acknowledge those demons in you. You lie to your wife and your own therapist, and you've never been honest about the garbage that floats around in your mind. And then you lie to yourself about it, too. I'll ask again -- let's pretend that we all agree that there are "gender wars." What's your solution? What are you doing about it? Link to post Share on other sites
climbergirl Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 You know what, Woggle, I was in a 'relationship' group therapy with a man who felt similar to you. In fact, I felt so uncomfortable with his statement that he hated women and that there were 3 more women in this group than he was comfortable with ( yes, there were 3 of us), that I asked him if I should leave. He loved his wife, but hated his mother and sister and that was projected onto his other relationships, including this therapy group. And I will say this to everyone so down on Woggle. This man in this group was an awesome guy...he was put through what no one should ever be put through. Quite like Woggle has dealt with, and should be understanded. I think a good man confronts those fears. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) You know what, Woggle, I was in a 'relationship' group therapy with a man who felt similar to you. In fact, I felt so uncomfortable with his statement that he hated women and that there were 3 more women in this group than he was comfortable with ( yes, there were 3 of us), that I asked him if I should leave. He loved his wife, but hated his mother and sister and that was projected onto his other relationships, including this therapy group. And I will say this to everyone so down on Woggle. This man in this group was an awesome guy...he was put through what no one should ever be put through. Quite like Woggle has dealt with, and should be understanded. I think a good man confronts those fears. Sorry but you get what you give.. I've been literally roasted on these forums & deservedly so.. you put it out there you best be prepared to handle the feedback you generate. Nobody owes Woggle or anybody else here "understanding" I like Woggle but after years of going around in this endless circular loop with him I don't feel it's helping him. Edited February 25, 2012 by soserious1 Link to post Share on other sites
Negative Nancy Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I've been literally roasted on these forums I haven't seen anyone roasting you on here. If anything, everybody agreed that your ex-husband is a scumbag, and rightfully so. Link to post Share on other sites
Crusoe Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Nobody owes Woggle or anybody else here "understanding" And that is why society is getting crappy. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 And that is why society is getting crappy. You miss my point, Woggle had had years of "understanding" from a lot of fine people here who've turned themselves inside out trying to counsel & emotionally support him. Despite all of that nothing has really changed for Woggle & nothing is going to... until he gets honest with his therapist and with his wife. Link to post Share on other sites
climbergirl Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Sorry but you get what you give.. I've been literally roasted on these forums & deservedly so.. you put it out there you best be prepared to handle the feedback you generate. Nobody owes Woggle or anybody else here "understanding" I like Woggle but after years of going around in this endless circular loop with him I don't feel it's helping him. I'm not sure where I stated that I 'owe' anyone any understanding. Just saying that I have met someone who had similar views and it is possible to have disdain for women, but yet, still able to have a good marriage and is a good person. Not really my point anyway. I give Woggle credit for trying to figure this out. Link to post Share on other sites
Negative Nancy Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Despite all of that nothing has really changed for Woggle That simply isn't true. I seriously can't be the only one who's seein overall progress in his posts? Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Agreed Nancy. What I find way more disturbing than Woggle's rants is the gang mentality of most of the responses exhibited in this thread. Very creepy. Most of us "creepy" respondents in this thread have spent many hundreds of words in countless other identical threads trying to convince Woggle that all women are not bad, that many of us share similar pain, that it's not healthy to nurture such negative feelings, that we wanted to help him, that he was a good guy and could leave it behind him, validating that his evil crazy ex and mom really did harm him, but reassuring him that those two and some other random whack beyotches and Valerie Solanas are not representative of most women, that his sick marriages were not representative of all marriages, etc. Some of us have extended this to PM's. He does not acknowledge when others share their pain. A woman can come here (and often does) and say "I was raped by my father and beaten by my ex, but I'm still able to love and trust men" and he will not even deign to remark about it. It happens ALL THE TIME. Nothing that happens to any woman counts. Bad things that happened to him, however, justify anything. He just comes back, again, and again, and again, to tell us how it's "clear" that everybody lives their life based on fear and hatred just like he does. And, offers some "proof" from a tabloid or the Jerry Springer show. Maybe you, Open Book, along with Negative Nancy and a small handful of others prefer to live this way, but not the rest of us. And we are allowed to be sick and tired of it, and to verbalize that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Negative Nancy Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 This forum isn't set up to just cater your needs, though, so you may be sick and tired of it all you want, but Woggle and others are still allowed to vent here. This forum is for venting and dealing with interpersonal struggles. Link to post Share on other sites
Crusoe Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 You miss my point, Woggle had had years of "understanding" from a lot of fine people here who've turned themselves inside out trying to counsel & emotionally support him. Despite all of that nothing has really changed for Woggle & nothing is going to... until he gets honest with his therapist and with his wife. You do your best, you hold out a hand and ask them to grab hold, if they don't you walk away. While you walk away you understand. If you stick in a knife and give a little twist, you've understood nothing. Link to post Share on other sites
NXS Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 You miss my point, Woggle had had years of "understanding" from a lot of fine people here who've turned themselves inside out trying to counsel & emotionally support him. Despite all of that nothing has really changed for Woggle & nothing is going to... until he gets honest with his therapist and with his wife. You know what I'm starting to agree with you. I've tried to engage with several of his threads before and it seems to be a regular pattern - make some sweeping OP, then get attacked by posters which derail the original point, then get others defending him and finally the original 'debate' is lost with no further input from him. Either he should try and back up his original point or stop pretending he actually has something to say instead of just another whingefest. Link to post Share on other sites
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