The ''sad'' other woman

[Stellar Wench]

I feel like people really believe that in order to be ''the other woman'' you have to be somehow ''damaged'' or ''broken''. Basically, that it's impossible to get in that position as a healthy individual.

 

I grew up in a happy household, upper-middle class, parents in a loving marriage, close with my brother, well-adjusted, fairly popular kid, in addition to being quite confident and social.

 

And on the verge of turning 20, I found myself being the other woman without even thinking about it.

 

And now when I read around this board or when I read stuff online, I notice the underlying tones about mistresses being sad or broken women, screwed up in one way or another (I never used to notice this before, I only noticed the clear message about them being evil).

I was far from a sad woman, and it was far from some sad affair. So it makes me wonder, do you all believe that?

 

I believe that there are sad affairs, but I also believe that the notion of all of them being like that has been party at least, presented by the BS side because it's easier to think that the other woman was this marginalized pathetic creature.

Are you still an OW? I don't understand why you would care what anyone thinks of your former lifestyle.

[noelle303]

So how did you allow yourself to continue?

 

I'm sorry, but I have somewhat different views when it comes to the distribution of blame in relationships.

 

 

 

Ok. I'm following you...so for you, it was worth it?

 

Worth what? The bad ending? For me, there are several reasons why it was.

[woinlove]

Sometimes one doesn't see the sadness or brokenness until one has matured and developed more compassion for others in general. I was also an OW at a young stage and felt perfectly fine and like I was getting what I wanted. I needed to learn more, to be loved more, and learn to love more, to see what I was missing in the way I connected with others. I just didn't see it at the time.

 

Noelle, when you were involved with MM, you posted about how you even enjoyed the sneaking around, including at his home. To you that may seem fun and the way a happy, loving person is. However, there could come a day when you will might see that sneaking around and getting thrill from being in someone else's marital home to fool around with a married man is not attractive at all. You might come to see the more one fills one's life with goodwill, compassion, love and generosity, the more real joy one has. Or maybe not. Maybe you'll always be the person that gets kicks from sneaking around behind a wife's back. I hope not, though.

[MissBee]

I'm sorry, but I have somewhat different views when it comes to the distribution of blame in relationships.

 

 

 

 

 

Worth what? The bad ending? For me, there are several reasons why it was.

 

 

Just one question, if you had it to do all over, you'd do it again?

[MissBee]

Sometimes one doesn't see the sadness or brokenness until one has matured and developed more compassion for others in general. I was also an OW at a young stage and felt perfectly fine and like I was getting what I wanted. I needed to learn more, to be loved more, and learn to love more, to see what I was missing in the way I connected with others. I just didn't see it at the time.

Noelle, when you were involved with MM, you posted about how you even enjoyed the sneaking around, including at his home. To you that may seem fun and the way a happy, loving person is. However, there could come a day when you will might see that sneaking around and getting thrill from being in someone else's marital home to fool around with a married man is not attractive at all. You might come to see the more one fills one's life with goodwill, compassion, love and generosity, the more real joy one has. Or maybe not. Maybe you'll always be the person that gets kicks from sneaking around behind a wife's back. I hope not, though.

 

That was my experience as well. I knew I didn't like what he was doing, but I freed myself from a lot of the responsibility and I just didn't see the big deal until 4 years later when I grew some more, spiritually, emotionally, psychologically etc. I know myself more and now know how dissonant that was and how much I'd never repeat it.

 

I do hope noelle grows in that regard, but sadly, it is not a given. With age unfortunately there does not always come wisdom, as there are women on LS well up there in age who still feel exactly as noelle does.

[noelle303]

so you claim your daughter won't have an unbroken life; yet she already does as he dad isn't in her life and probably never will be. so when she is a teen, will you tell her about your affair with a mm? will you tell her how he erupted when you told him you were pregnant? will you tell her how you and he snuck around and had sex and it was so exciting and fun? and when she seeks her dad out, cause she most likely will, and his wife, her stepmom, tells her what a needy, naive, selfish woman she thinks you are, will it be all fun then?

 

she will also seek out her brothers one day; and depending on the age difference, she may go to school with them or heck, even think about dating one of them. then will it be all about fun and how you have no responsibilty? when she asks you how could you have sex with a married man, will you tell her it was all about sex and fun and you weren't married to him so you did nothing wrong?

 

Did your mom tell you about the fun sex with your dad?

 

As I said it will be age-appropriate and just as any child doesn't enjoy hearing about their parents' sex lives, I'm sure neither will mine.

 

Bringing up a child on my own is something that could have happened even if the baby daddy was single. It happens all the time, deadbeat dads are all around us, and they usually bail in the child's first year of life.

My daughter will know who her dad is and if she wants to contact him, that is her choice, however as I said, I will be open with her, honest and raise her to not be ashamed of her origin by providing an example in me not being ashamed of her origin.

[noelle303]

Just one question, if you had it to do all over, you'd do it again?

 

Completely honest: yes.

[MissBee]

Did your mom tell you about the fun sex with your dad?

 

As I said it will be age-appropriate and just as any child doesn't enjoy hearing about their parents' sex lives, I'm sure neither will mine.

 

Bringing up a child on my own is something that could have happened even if the baby daddy was single. It happens all the time, deadbeat dads are all around us, and they usually bail in the child's first year of life.

My daughter will know who her dad is and if she wants to contact him, that is her choice, however as I said, I will be open with her, honest and raise her to not be ashamed of her origin by providing an example in me not being ashamed of her origin.

 

 

Noelle....do you see a difference between a dead-beat dad that you had no clue would be a deadbeat and someone choosing a situation that is MORE LIKELY to lead to alienation? Tell me you see a huge difference between having a baby with your boyfriend who is committed to you or your husband who is committed to you versus another woman's husband you're sleeping with secretly?

 

I personally go out of my way to ensure I won't ever be pregnant for a man who is not someone who has made a commitment to me....i.e. marriage. Can my husband run off and leave me and my child? Sure...however, by having a baby with my husband, I am raising the chances that this won't happen as everything in the situation has shown that this person is committed to me and also we would be planning that child.

 

A woman, either through no birth control, sleeping with men committed elsewhere or a single guy who is not committed to her either etc. is also making a less than stellar choice that can more likely lead to dead-beat dad syndrome. It is up to the woman to make wise choices sexually, as she is the one who will be left with the biggest burden should things go awry.

 

So yes it happens with single guys too...but also, many single women who find themselves in that position also made poor choices about who they were sleeping with and especially if they were doing so without protection. Of course there is the case of an accident, like a condom breaking or you had a commitment and the person backed out...but a lot of times this is not the case and it is simply a case of people "having fun" and it goes wrong. I have fun...but I personally knew I never wanted to be someone's baby mama, so I take measures as much as I can to avoid that. I have never had unprotected sex and don't plan on it until a ring is on my finger and half the time I just don't even have sex period unless I am in a relationship. That is my personal standard to severely decrease the chance of me being in an undesirable position. Note: I am not saying everyone should do this, I am just saying that it is not so out of control as some make it seem. You have a lot of choice about how you conduct your life...and depending on how you conduct it, some outcomes are more or less likely.

Edited February 27, 2012 by MissBee

[Spark1111]

I'm sorry, but I have somewhat different views when it comes to the distribution of blame in relationships.

 

 

 

 

 

Worth what? The bad ending? For me, there are several reasons why it was.

 

I'm not sure what bad ending you are referring to.

 

You now have a daughter you seem to adore and that's good. You alluded to a support system as you raise her and that is very important too.

 

Being a parent is a huge responsibility, one that lasts a lifetime.

 

When your daughter grows up to be a young woman, what would you intruct her to do when, or if, a MM starts to pursue her and wants to have fun?

 

What will you say to your daughter if she is someday in the same situation you were in?

[bentnotbroken]

I'm not sure what bad ending you are referring to.

 

You now have a daughter you seem to adore and that's good. You alluded to a support system as you raise her and that is very important too.

 

Being a parent is a huge responsibility, one that lasts a lifetime.

 

When your daughter grows up to be a young woman, what would you intruct her to do when, or if, a MM starts to pursue her and wants to have fun?

 

What will you say to your daughter if she is someday in the same situation you were in?

 

 

Or the daughter is on the other end of the spectrum.

[frozensprouts]

noelle,

 

i know it's probably hard for you to understand why some people feel the way they about responsibility to others...but going through life feeling that one somehow exists in a vacuum and has no moral responsibility to others seems, at least to my way of thinking, to be a somewhat sad way of thinking.

 

The idea that "well, if he didn't cheat with me, he would have with someone else" or "i have no responsibility to someone else's marriage" may be true, but, in my point of view, we all do have the responsibility to treat others the way we would wish to be treated ourselves

 

someday, your daughter may very well come to you, tears in her eyes, and tell you that her husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/wife cheated on her. You'll see the pain on her face and your heart will break for her...what if she places some blame at the feet of the other woman...what will you tell her?

 

I hope that never happens to your daughter, but if and when it does, spare a thought to the way you feel today...

[donnamaybe]

I'm sorry, but I have somewhat different views when it comes to the distribution of blame in relationships.

 

 

Worth what? The bad ending? For me, there are several reasons why it was.

 

Why, how convenient!

[donnamaybe]

Did your mom tell you about the fun sex with your dad?

 

As I said it will be age-appropriate and just as any child doesn't enjoy hearing about their parents' sex lives, I'm sure neither will mine.

 

Bringing up a child on my own is something that could have happened even if the baby daddy was single. It happens all the time, deadbeat dads are all around us, and they usually bail in the child's first year of life.

My daughter will know who her dad is and if she wants to contact him, that is her choice, however as I said, I will be open with her, honest and raise her to not be ashamed of her origin by providing an example in me not being ashamed of her origin.

So you would let her seek out her father knowing he will probably try to deny her to keep his M intact? And we are to believe there is no "brokenness" there?

[MissBee]

I will never get married and never be a OW, not because I feel it is wrong to be a OW but because it's too much work and I can't be bothered.

 

I am not young (in my thirties) but I don't find it "morally" wrong to have sex with a married man. I never felt that it goes against my morals and values. I've never done it; I just don't feel that it's so wrong.

 

I guess I'm a cold person; I don't care about the feelings of others and am not responsible for their feelings. As long as I don't break the law (and therefore end up hurting only myself), I don't feel that we owe kindness or empathy for strangers. Other's people's happiness and families aren't my concern.

 

I am not even talking about affairs; I just mean in general in ANY life situation. Like if something bad were to happen to a stranger I wouldn't feel bad because it doesn't concern me. I also don't feel bad if I hurt someone's feelings by putting them down etc.

 

You have to realize that everyone has different morals and values. A lot of things that people feel wrong I don't. The only laws I feel I have to follow are legal ones.

 

That's interesting....so what would you say are your morals and values? Can you give me an idea of the kinds of things you would find wrong/reprehensible?

[donnamaybe]

I would say BTK probably didn't care how others felt either.

[donnamaybe]

I probably am narcissistic but I like the way I am. I feel that everyone has different morals and values; there IS no standard for morals and values. I am not religious; I'm an atheist.

 

I just don't feel that strangers are deserving of kindness or be spared of hurt; not just in OW situations but just in general. If I don't know you; I probably won't give a damn. I am willing to bet that most people would feel the same way I do. Why should someone care about the well-being of a stranger? Who are they to me?

 

I usually don't post in the OW forum since I've never been with a married man or married but I get VERY VERY annoyed when I see people posting things like "moral compass" or "don't hurt other people's families". Since when are we obligated to care about other people's families when we don't know them?

 

I hate this attitude of "having to be nice" to strangers. No one is obligated to show kindness to anyone; especially to folks they don't even know.

 

You better hope you don't come across too many people lime you in your daily life.

[MissBee]

Murder, theft, rape. Most things that are illegal.

 

If it's not illegal then it's ok for most things...

 

So if for example murder, theft and rape were not illegal, you wouldn't see them as problems?

[donnamaybe]

You better hope you don't come across too many people lime you in your daily life.

 

...like you...

[donnamaybe]

It would probably be illegal since you would have to break in since I don't open the door for strangers. I am pretty sure it is illegal to defecate in someone's food.

 

No one would find out if the pizza delivery guy pissed on your pizza. Enjoy, because it is bound to happen to someone with your attitude.

[Quiet Storm]

Breals probably does have NPD, but don't expect that to bother her. NPD often think that not caring about others is beneficial to them. She thinks she's superior to those of us that care. She needs an audience, though, to feed her NPD self (note: we are her audience).

 

Many people are atheist and still have values. I am not a believer, but I treat others with respect and kindness.

[MissBee]

The reason why I posted in this topic is because I was posting in the Dating forum and one of the topics was "Girl Was Much Fatter In Real Life than Her Online Dating Photos". I wrote that if I met a guy who lied about his weight I would walk about because I do not have time to waste on overweight and ugly guys. Other people then said that was lacking moral character and that I should feel empathy for him even though he was a stranger. I argued for several pages that I do not care about the feelings for strangers because it's not my problem....

 

then I browsed LS and read this topic which looked interesting... and then I saw more people spouting off about having empathy for others and that just rubbed me the wrong way; that is all.

 

Do you have lots of friends and have you had good romantic relationships?

 

Besides your family, all people who are your friends or lovers had to be strangers first. It is always funny to me how I never knew someone then they overtime become a part of my life as a friend or lover. Which to me signals that whether or not someone is a stranger, they could potentially become a friend or lover and it is hard for me to imagine having the beliefs you do and still being open and receptive to strangers in order to have friends or lovers.

[MissBee]

I am an introvert so I like to be alone; romantic relationships are not important to me. I do not need a man to complete me; I complete myself.

 

Not really sociable to be honest. Friends are overrated.

 

Makes sense.

[donnamaybe]

Nah, dm is always nice to people. Even when they don't deserve it.

 

Not always. I used to wait tables eons ago. Part of our responsibilities was the salad bar. This one gal, while we were rotating the items, ate a spoonful of pasta salad then went back into the container with the same spoon. I first tried talking with her about it, but once it became clear that she didn't care about anything but what she wanted (sound familiar?) I reported her and she got fired.

[bentnotbroken]

I probably am narcissistic but I like the way I am. I feel that everyone has different morals and values; there IS no standard for morals and values. I am not religious; I'm an atheist.

 

I just don't feel that strangers are deserving of kindness or be spared of hurt; not just in OW situations but just in general. If I don't know you; I probably won't give a damn. I am willing to bet that most people would feel the same way I do. Why should someone care about the well-being of a stranger? Who are they to me?

 

I usually don't post in the OW forum since I've never been with a married man or married but I get VERY VERY annoyed when I see people posting things like "moral compass" or "don't hurt other people's families". Since when are we obligated to care about other people's families when we don't know them?

 

I hate this attitude of "having to be nice" to strangers. No one is obligated to show kindness to anyone; especially to folks they don't even know.

 

I don't believe that anyone cares if you show anything other than what you are showing now. It is you who came with the post(of which you are by all means entitled to make)...but no one is saying someone has to be nice to anyone. It is generally common human decency that does not have to be tied to any religion, theology or squat. There isn't an obligation to being human, just an expectation that most are capable of it.

[bentnotbroken]

I am an introvert so I like to be alone; romantic relationships are not important to me. I do not need a man to complete me; I complete myself.

 

Not really sociable to be honest. Friends are overrated.

 

 

I do believe you are right.