The ''sad'' other woman

[donnamaybe]

I don't believe that anyone cares if you show anything other than what you are showing now. It is you who came with the post(of which you are by all means entitled to make)...but no one is saying someone has to be nice to anyone. It is generally common human decency that does not have to be tied to any religion, theology or squat. There isn't an obligation to being human, just an expectation that most are capable of it.

 

Humans being human?! Say it isn't so!

[frozensprouts]

The reason why I posted in this topic is because I was posting in the Dating forum and one of the topics was "Girl Was Much Fatter In Real Life than Her Online Dating Photos". I wrote that if I met a guy who lied about his weight I would walk about because I do not have time to waste on overweight and ugly guys. Other people then said that was lacking moral character and that I should feel empathy for him even though he was a stranger. I argued for several pages that I do not care about the feelings for strangers because it's not my problem....

 

then I browsed LS and read this topic which looked interesting... and then I saw more people spouting off about having empathy for others and that just rubbed me the wrong way; that is all.

 

this is somewhat intriguing...

 

so you feel that people should not feel they need to treat others with kindness and respect, nor empathy...

 

i would ask you how you feel people should treat you? You seem to expect respect and empathy ( i sense a strong overtone of displeasure that people got annoyed with the attitude you expressed in another forum). i can assume that you also expect to be treated with respect, but do not feel that you need to treat others in this way.

 

this attitude has nothing to do with you being atheist or introverted ( i'm agnostic and introverted and don't share you values what so ever)...it's just the way you are "wired". ...

 

but it always surprises me ( and I don't know why) that people with the attitude you say you have are also the first to complain when they are not treated with empathy, kindness and respect

 

and no, most people don't feel the way you do...most are able to pony up at least of modicum of kindness for others...please don't assume most people are like you

[frozensprouts]

What forum are you talking about? The Dating forum on LS or another forum? I post on lots of different forums online besides LS so I have no idea what you are talking about? Where did I insist people should treat me with respect?

 

I only insist on it when I am a customer because if I am paying then I am paying for their service which includes respect. Yes; I expect my ass to be kissed severely when I'm spending money because I am paying for it Is this what you are referring to?

 

you refer to people who share an opinion that is not the same as yours as "spouting off" (in this thread) because they don't agree with you...i don't agree with you, but should i say your opinions are "spouting off"? ...you also seem perturbed by people's annoyance with your attitude about walking out on a blind date if the guy was overweight ( see quoted post above)...

 

you may have answered this question previously in this thread, but i will ask again...you seem to view the only guidelines for your behavior as "is it legal" and "what's in it for me"... would you commit the acts that are illegal ( murder, assault, rape, theft, etc.) were they legal or if you knew you could and there was no chance you'd get caught?

 

sorry to ask so many questions, but i just find that way of thinking totally foreign tome, so i'm curious about it

[MissBee]

I have no interest in murdering anyone; I do feel murder is wrong. Assault; thee are some girl's who's asses I would like to kick but I'm petite and not strong enough so I won't even bother. I know I would get my ass beat.

I have no need to steal; I have plenty of money and can buy everything I could possibly want. I'm a female, why would I need to rape anyone? I can get laid easy, and no; I have no desire to rape anyone.

 

These questions are ridiculous; there is a HUGE difference between murder, assault and rape versus HURTING SOMEONE'S FEELINGS. I have no problems calling someone "ugly" if they are or rejecting a guy harshly etc. Doesn't mean I don't have a conscience. OF COURSE I find murder and rape wrong.

I won't lose sleep over calling someone a "fatty" or "ugly" though; if they want to cry over that it's not my problem.

 

I did not get annoyed with people in the other thread; people got annoyed with ME and started attacking me mainly (which is fine, I'm not complaining). I wasn't peturbed in the least.

 

So you believe it is not okay to physically harm people; but, hurting them in emotional ways (which are just as real and sometimes even more enduring) is okay?

 

How do you feel about bullying in schools and the kids who commit suicide because of name-calling and emotional forms of hurt and abuse?

[donnamaybe]

I have no interest in murdering anyone; I do feel murder is wrong. Assault; thee are some girl's who's asses I would like to kick but I'm petite and not strong enough so I won't even bother. I know I would get my ass beat.

I have no need to steal; I have plenty of money and can buy everything I could possibly want. I'm a female, why would I need to rape anyone? I can get laid easy, and no; I have no desire to rape anyone.

 

These questions are ridiculous; there is a HUGE difference between murder, assault and rape versus HURTING SOMEONE'S FEELINGS. I have no problems calling someone "ugly" if they are or rejecting a guy harshly etc. Doesn't mean I don't have a conscience. OF COURSE I find murder and rape wrong.

I won't lose sleep over calling someone a "fatty" or "ugly" though; if they want to cry over that it's not my problem.

 

I did not get annoyed with people in the other thread; people got annoyed with ME and started attacking me mainly (which is fine, I'm not complaining). I wasn't peturbed in the least.

 

No. Not "perturbed." Just "rubbed the wrong way."

[donnamaybe]

So you believe it is not okay to physically harm people; but, hurting them in emotional ways (which are just as real and sometimes even more enduring) is okay?

 

How do you feel about bullying in schools and the kids who commit suicide because of name-calling and emotional forms of hurt and abuse?

 

There is something so very familiar about the portrayal of this attitude.

[D-Lish]

What forum are you talking about? The Dating forum on LS or another forum? I post on lots of different forums online besides LS so I have no idea what you are talking about? Where did I insist people should treat me with respect?

 

I only insist on it when I am a customer because if I am paying then I am paying for their service which includes respect. Yes; I expect my ass to be kissed severely when I'm spending money because I am paying for it Is this what you are referring to?

 

As long as you're treating the person giving you the service the same respect, that's all good, you'll get good service in return. If you have the expectation of being given good service while being inconsiderate yourself, you're going to run into problems. If you came into any of my stores, you'd be greeted and treated with respect- if you were the kind of customer that chose to be rude or disrespectful to any of my staff, you'd be refused service and escorted out the front door and asked to never come back. I don't know what kind of shopper you are. You could fall into the middle and be the "high maintenance" kind that sales people will put up with because they think they'll get a good sale out of it, so they appease you for the commission.

 

Getting back on topic, when it comes to OW being broken or damaged in some way. I am sure some are. Accepting that the person you love has a wife and kids that he's not willing to leave doesn't indicate a person with a higher than average self esteem. However, any woman that accepts being treated unfairly regardless of the type of relationship is lacking in self esteem. That includes BS's and those of us not involved in affairs that might be putting up with mistreatment by men in our relationships.

 

I am always amazed how most of these conversations end up with OW and BS's going at one another. I always wonder why the MM is let off the hook for being at the center of the affair orchestrating the hurt placed on both women. IMO, he deserves the most blame for placing the burden and the hurt on both women.

[MissBee]

I don't really have an opinion because I don't want kids nor do I particularly like them. It's wrong but I don't have time to analyze every single thing I do in detail. I do have a moral compass; it's just not as "deep" as that of others. Bullying to the point of suicide is not good obviously but what do you want me to do about it? Im not an activist or do I care enough about any issues to become one.

 

Why should I care about bullies? I don't have kids... Should I sit here and read the newspaper and feel sorry for every single person that got shot and murdered and stabbed? I have things to do like work, eat and post on LS. I don't have time to think about every unfortunate incident in the world... I have things to do...

 

How much in detail do you expect me to analyze every single thing I do in life? Should I care if Walmart takes over mom and pop businesses and not shop there? Should I not buy diamonds if they are blood diamonds? Sorry, but I don't have time to think of all of this (nor do I really care); as long as I can sleep at night that's good enough for me.

 

I don't expect you to do anything....you're on LS, which is up there on your list of important things you need to do with your time, so since you're here I was asking you a question about a belief you espoused.

 

I concede that I don't care about the things you do as an individual, so much as it is a curiosity for me while I am here on LS. I don't think I completely believe what you say; however, all kinds exist and if you were indeed being truthful, you would not be the first in the world to think this way. However, the good thing is you have no friends, you don't date and don't want kids...so as long as you just post on online forums and not entwine yourself in the lives of others, then your beliefs don't seem too harmful....they just make for controversy online.

[whichwayisup]

I will never get married and never be a OW, not because I feel it is wrong to be a OW but because it's too much work and I can't be bothered.

 

I am not young (in my thirties) but I don't find it "morally" wrong to have sex with a married man. I never felt that it goes against my morals and values. I've never done it; I just don't feel that it's so wrong.

 

I guess I'm a cold person; I don't care about the feelings of others and am not responsible for their feelings. As long as I don't break the law (and therefore end up hurting only myself), I don't feel that we owe kindness or empathy for strangers. Other's people's happiness and families aren't my concern.

 

I am not even talking about affairs; I just mean in general in ANY life situation. Like if something bad were to happen to a stranger I wouldn't feel bad because it doesn't concern me. I also don't feel bad if I hurt someone's feelings by putting them down etc.

 

You have to realize that everyone has different morals and values. A lot of things that people feel wrong I don't. The only laws I feel I have to follow are legal ones.

 

Honest but very very sad.. I don't know what else to say except you're missing out on many good feelings by caring about others in general and having empathy and sympathy for human kind.

[MissBee]

As long as you're treating the person giving you the service the same respect, that's all good, you'll get good service in return. If you have the expectation of being given good service while being inconsiderate yourself, you're going to run into problems. If you came into any of my stores, you'd be greeted and treated with respect- if you were the kind of customer that chose to be rude or disrespectful to any of my staff, you'd be refused service and escorted out the front door and asked to never come back. I don't know what kind of shopper you are. You could fall into the middle and be the "high maintenance" kind that sales people will put up with because they think they'll get a good sale out of it, so they appease you for the commission.

Getting back on topic, when it comes to OW being broken or damaged in some way. I am sure some are. Accepting that the person you love has a wife and kids that he's not willing to leave doesn't indicate a person with a higher than average self esteem. However, any woman that accepts being treated unfairly regardless of the type of relationship is lacking in self esteem. That includes BS's and those of us not involved in affairs that might be putting up with mistreatment by men in our relationships.

I am always amazed how most of these conversations end up with OW and BS's going at one another. I always wonder why the MM is let off the hook for being at the center of the affair orchestrating the hurt placed on both women. IMO, he deserves the most blame for placing the burden and the hurt on both women.

 

 

I agree with the bolded.

 

Whether one is married to a sleaze or dating a married sleaze....you're both being treated badly and a married woman being treated badly by her husband is in no better position than an OW who is being treated badly by this same person as well. This is especially in the cases where a BS finds out about the cheating and continues on with the relationship.

 

Every individual has to assess their situation and find out why they're in it. If you are married to a serial cheater, is there any issue you may have had that attracted this kind of person into your life? You have a responsibility to yourself in this situation as well...it is not only about what that person chose to do but about how you ended up with them. Being married doesn't relinquish you from that same type of introspection and responsibility that those dating have to understand how they end up in the situations they do. Mind you, you aren't responsible for people's choices, but I do believe that who we end up dating and especially marrying, tells a story about us. Is the story one that needs to be rewritten is the question?

 

A huge lesson I learned that has helped me a lot is not only thinking about what people do to me but to consider exactly why a situation happened to me, how was I complicit, what subconscious pulls attracted this to me etc. It is very useful, as it is a lot easier to work on yourself and then see your situation change than it is to simply blame your misfortune on the other. Again let me be clear, I am not saying that someone should blame themselves for other people's choices, I am saying though that most things do not "just happen" and when we find ourselves in an unpleasant situation with our spouse, boyfriend, married person we're trying to date etc...we should consider what role we play in it and if we're at a healthy place ourselves or does something need to be reorganized.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Why would you not believe what I say? Do you think that I secretly cry over bullied children and strangers getting murdered?

 

.

 

Do you believe you have Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

 

Do you have any feelings of caring about any person other than yourself?

[MissBee]

Why would you not believe what I say? Do you think that I secretly cry over bullied children and strangers getting murdered?

 

At least 5 other people in the other thread said they would walk out in that Fat Online Dating topic in the Dating topic so I'm definitely not the only one that feels this way. Other people have stated they would do the same. My opinions may be more the norm than you think.

 

I do associate with people all the time. It's not really your business if I have friends or not but if I did, so what? I can intertwine myself into anyone's lives if I want.

 

 

Ahh....I have no idea why you have an argumentative tone.

 

I simply find some of your examples outlandish and wonder if any real person thinks this way or if you are exaggerating for effect. I don't care about the fat topic and was not speaking about that at all.

 

It is indeed not my business whether or not you have friends and I do not care if you do or don't, we are having an online discussion on a forum...so we're discussing...I don't see what something being "my business" has to do with anything...as nothing here is anyone's business but we do need topics of discussion that are not completely arbitrary Anyway, you can do what you wish, never said you could not, I simply restated what you said about you not seeing a need for friends, wanting to be single and not wanting kids. You said it and I said, I believe those are great choices given your beliefs.

[D-Lish]

I am not rude but I walk out if I am not addressed properly. I refuse to give a sale to someone who does not greet me. If they don't service me I walk out. If they underestimate me (treat me like I cannot afford to shop there) I walk out. I am not rude; I simply speak my mind (no foul language or anything) and walk out and write a bad review on Yelp. I am polite but I never kiss the associate's ass and do not go out of my way to be nice to them. I am cordial but there is no mistake that I am the shopper; I don't have to kiss their ass or ask them about their day etc.

 

I am never rude when I shop; I simply don't go out of my way to be nice to them because it is not my job. I am not obligated to engage them in conversation. However, they should ask me if I need help. That's how I see it.

 

So you as a shopper, approach shopping as someone who thinks you are better than the person servicing them.... Says a lot about you- it really does.

 

Being nice to other people should just be something people should practice in general. I'm sorry for you that you think that because you are spending money in an establishment that it's okay to believe the people helping you are beneath you.

 

Anyway, this is way off topic, so I am going to bow out from this discussion about retail and let you all get back to the original topic.

[whichwayisup]

So do you cry over bullied children even though you don't know them? You sit there after reading an article and reflect for 5 minutes how badly you feel? Sorry but I don't do that. I read a story and move on to the next; it's the truth.

 

I probably do have NPD but I don't see what's wrong with it. I'm vain; I know that much. I would care about a guy if he was really hot and if I had a crush on him. I don't care about random people in the world though.

 

You do sound NPD and honestly, fact that you don't care about bullied children and their suffering is, well, pathetic that you cant find it in your heart to feel sorrow/sadness or anything. A child was bullied not too long ago and he ended up killing himself before the case went to court.. There's much more to that story but I'm not going to post it because you wouldn't understand nor care.

[MissBee]

You do sound NPD and honestly, fact that you don't care about bullied children and their suffering is, well, pathetic that you cant find it in your heart to feel sorrow/sadness or anything. A child was bullied not too long ago and he ended up killing himself before the case went to court.. There's much more to that story but I'm not going to post it because you wouldn't understand nor care.

 

Breal is either making this up...which is what I began to think when she said she has important things to do like post on LS or she is truly like this and is a narcissist. If it is the latter, then no amount of logic and argument will change that and if she is the former, then it's still a useless convo.

[whichwayisup]

Obviously I feel it is a bad thing but do you expect me to feel deep and intense sorrow? Do you expect me to be outraged? I can't will tears to come out if nothing comes out... I don't think bullying is right... But do you expect me to sit here and really cry? Seriously?

 

No I dont expect you to cry or be totally outraged, geez, talk about slightly over exaggering what I was saying! But having a 'normal' reaction of just feeling bad for the suffering and all.. A moment of oh, how awful.

 

I guess 9/11 probably didn't get much reaction out of you either, eh?

 

I took a NPD quiz for fun... They asked things if I think I like to look at my body (I do) and if I like to receive attention in public due to my looks (I do)... nothing wrong with that.

 

An online quiz can't diagnose anybody for sure.

[SidLyon]

Frankly I don't care if Breals is a narcissist, is rude to shop assistants and doesn't get upset over bullied children who commit suicide.

 

I see even less point to this part of the discussion, than to the original thread topic.

 

Maybe it makes me a narcissist too.

[whichwayisup]

I feel bullying is not right obviously but do you really find it hard to believe that I don't feel intense sadness? Do you really expect me to cry? Make a big deal out of it? How much empathy am I expected to feel? It's a SAD story but I don't FEEL sad about it; it's not my business.

 

You probably are or have been a bully in your life. Telling people they're ugly or fat, then not caring how they feel, or hurting their feelings.. Well, it's just plain cruel to do to someone.

[whichwayisup]

Frankly I don't care if Breals is a narcissist, is rude to shop assistants and doesn't get upset over bullied children who commit suicide.

 

I see even less point to this part of the discussion, than to the original thread topic.

 

Maybe it makes me a narcissist too.

 

No it doesn't but maybe it's time to get the thread back on topic and not focus so much on someone who doesn't give a crap overall! This thread isn't about Breals at all. If she wants to talk about herself more, she can start her own thread!

[whichwayisup]

You want to know something people may think is weird? I never cried at anyone's funeral ever. My grandmother died and I never cried; I wasn't repressing anything. I just didn't feel sad. She lived with me for 10 plus years too but I always found her overbearing and too meddlesome in my life. I always wished she would go live with my other cousins and interfere with their lives... My aunt even asked "Are you sad at all?" And I said "Of course I am" and tried to cry because it is her mother and I didn't want to offend her. I just never loved her I guess.

 

Maybe I am broken but I function fine; I lived on my own since 18, make good money, can take care of myself financially. Never did drugs, never drank. There are people who are "mentally stable" who depend on government assistance or can't even support themselves.

 

Maybe start your own thread and talk about it more... It's not fair to the OP to crash her thread and go off topic.. Even though we all helped by answering and replying. So star another thread, repost this particular post and I'll reply because I do have something to say about what you just said.

[MissBee]

I feel bullying is not right obviously but do you really find it hard to believe that I don't feel intense sadness? Do you really expect me to cry? Make a big deal out of it? How much empathy am I expected to feel? It's a SAD story but I don't FEEL sad about it; it's not my business.

 

I swear I am not making it up. I would think that YOU were making it up if you told me you cried and wailed from reading an article or hearing a news story about someone who committed suicide due to bullying. sorry; I just do not have that kind of emotion inside of me.

 

I scored high on the NPD test mainly because I am an exhibitionist; I am not afraid to dress up or show off.... a lot of questions were related to that.

 

Breal...who is discussing crying over bullied children? Really? Did anyone ask you to do that and did any of us say we do that?

 

I said that your whole speech about having better things to do with your time, like post on LS, made me not take you seriously, as who really cites posting on an online forum as a prime part of their important schedule lmao THAT is what made me doubt your credibility. I figured that must be a joke. Not whether or not you would date a fat man or cry over bullied kids.

 

Anyway, you most likely are a narcissist and I know that to be one of the most stubborn personality disorders and certainly do not care to battle it out trying to convince a narcissist of the reason why they should not be one...it is not something one can be talked out of. So I have no desire to do that with you. I believe what you say. I also find it a bit ridiculous and sad but will reiterate that so long as you do not have kids or really care to date anyone or form friendships, then your narcissism doesn't bother too many people...except stir up discussion, debate and controversy on online forums, which you admit to liking. That is fine with me. I wish all narcissists would spend more time in virtual reality than in the world of having kids and relationships actually....

[bentnotbroken]

There is something so very familiar about the portrayal of this attitude.

 

 

Very................Can't mistake it at all.

[bentnotbroken]

So do you cry over bullied children even though you don't know them? You sit there after reading an article and reflect for 5 minutes how badly you feel? Sorry but I don't do that. I read a story and move on to the next; it's the truth.

 

I probably do have NPD but I don't see what's wrong with it. I'm vain; I know that much. I would care about a guy if he was really hot and if I had a crush on him. I don't care about random people in the world though.

 

 

This takes on a whole new image.

[bentnotbroken]

Ok, I won't post in this thread anymore since I don't want to threadjack. My NPD can't be that bad; I actually have the courtesy to exit this thread gracefully and realize the topic is not about me.

 

 

You are exiting...with courtesy or grace.......hmmm..........

[Gentlegirl2]

You are exiting...with courtesy or grace.......hmmm..........

 

I do think this thread got right off topic. It wasn't about who cried at funerals at all.

 

I hope Breals does find the appropriate place to discuss that.

 

GG