Single and looking ladies, and options

[verhrzn]

You need to work on this, If your mother tells you this, then it's pretty bad.... It doesn't matter how physically attractive you are, no guy is going to stick around, if being around you is draining.

 

Too bad it's an integral part of my personality. That's WHY I said it was a socially maladjusted quality. Being an intellectually challenging and inquisitive person is both a strength (it's what makes me unique and interesting) and a flaw (other people think it's tiring and boring and sucks.)

[fortyninethousand322]

I've turned down guys for all sorts of reasons: I didn't think we'd have much in common to talk about (i.e. they aren't in my general kind of laid back/liberal/hipster/nerd/ish circle, which is easy to tell), he had expressed views that were politically or morally different to mine, I wasn't attracted, talking to him was awkward rather than fun, etc. If I have already have a clear indication that I WON'T like him, why would I agree to go out with him? Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

Some of these things would be very hard to tell in many circumstances. I mean unless a girl was wearing an Obama t-shirt there's no way for me to tell whether or not she's "politically" compatible.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Nope, nothing eye catching. It's entirely possible that I'm not ugly in the strictest sense of the world. Ugly people are eye-catching. I'm usually invisible. I think I might be... well, is there a middle ground between "plain" and "ugly"? Like, too ugly to be attractively plain, but too plain to be interestingly ugly?

I actually saw a fun study that the "extremes" of people were more likely to get attention online. So, if you have ugly features, people either react to you very negatively (you're ugly) or very positively (I have an attraction to your particular brand of ugliness!) It's actually the "plain" people who lose out, because the more men as a group disagree about a woman's attractiveness, the more they end up liking her.

(The Mathematics Of Beauty « OkTrends)

 

Horsecrap.

 

I guarantee you have some physical traits that just pop! I've never met a truly plain woman.

 

Most guys think of Helen Hunt or Sarah Jessica Parker as plain types... but they each have eye catching features that they play up.

 

Okay, this might be a bit of a rant, but... in my experience, intellectual and nerdy guys say they want one thing, when in truth they really want another. I've met TONS of guys who say they'd love a smart woman, an intellectual woman, a nerdy woman... But what they really mean is they want a woman who appreciates those qualities in the GUY, and doesn't threaten the guy's superiority about those topics.

I'll use my ex as an example. He always proclaimed how much he loved "intelligent" women. But when I was actually intelligent with him, he would get very competitive and nasty. Why? Because I undermined his intelligence. He really didn't like that. So when he said he wanted an "intelligent" woman, he really meant he wanted one who was smart just enough to keep up with what he was saying, but not smart enough to overshadow him.

That's why I consider them negative (socially maladjusted) qualities. I make other people look bad. My mother says being around me is tiring. I make people think and I push them intellectually. (Think of that kid who is always asking "Why." So damn annoying. But curiosity is a good thing, right??)

 

Haha... nobody likes to feel like their relationship is a competition. Maybe your ex was just a douche, but your somewhat right. With intelligent guys it's more about how you say something vs. what you say. You can debate all day with them and walk away with mutual respect. It's a skill some guys don't have and some women don't have. If you like to debate in a friendly way then you need to learn it if you have not already.

 

I would guess my cousin was very much like you. I had to work with him for years to teach him that in order for people to really respect his opinion he needed to focus on making sure the other person felt acknowledged, heard, and respected. Now debating with him is incredible fun, because he adds perspective I would not otherwise have.

[zengirl]

Some of these things would be very hard to tell in many circumstances. I mean unless a girl was wearing an Obama t-shirt there's no way for me to tell whether or not she's "politically" compatible.

 

I'm not saying you'll always know them, but things that come up in conversation can tell you and such. If I didn't know them, obviously I couldn't have rejected a guy for it, but I find conversation brings out at least some of the person's interests/thoughts/etc. If it didn't, I wouldn't go out with the guy because he makes lousy conversation and I would assume a whole night of lousy, bland, meaningless conversation that tells me nothing about who he is could potentially await. Bummer.

 

(I'm not saying I expect to learn EVERYTHING from one conversation, mind you, just something.)

[reallyhotguy]

Getting first dates was so difficult that I naturally assumed the problem was something superficial about me. After awhile, it's difficult to say that the problem was with the women.

 

Maybe so!

 

Still, that only shows that something about your approach wasn't working. It still doesn't offer a reason to believe that something was bad, or is generally bad, about you.

 

I pick up on this conflation a lot -- in fact, it's all over this thread. It's a tricky one, because it can really mess with your self worth.

 

A woman whom you've only spoken to casually for a few minutes can't possibly begin to judge you as a person, because they simply don't know you. Stop and really let that sink in for a moment. It's simply, factually, categorically not possible for a stranger to judge you or aspects of you as good or bad, because they don't have that information (and therefore can't make judgments on it).

 

Think about that for a second -- who in this world does know that information, and could make that judgment? Very few. Possibly parents, family members, close friends. Also, possibly, no one.

 

Rather, what these strange women do have is their perception of your approach -- what they concluded from the 30 minutes (or whatever) of meeting you. This is not an omniscient, wholly encompassing evaluation of you as an entity; rather, it's an evaluation of some things you once said and did (including how you appeared physically), and will never do exactly the same again.

 

This conflation can get so ingrained in some people that they will start basing conclusions on it, rather than recognizing it as useless (being a logical error). Which is why you get threads like this, with somedude feeling bad about himself and angry at women for making him feel bad, when it was in fact his own faulty interpretation that allowed him to make himself feel bad.

[ScreamingTrees]

I've turned down guys for all sorts of reasons: I didn't think we'd have much in common to talk about (i.e. they aren't in my general kind of laid back/liberal/hipster/nerd/ish circle, which is easy to tell), he had expressed views that were politically or morally different to mine, I wasn't attracted, talking to him was awkward rather than fun, etc. If I have already have a clear indication that I WON'T like him, why would I agree to go out with him? Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

Makes sense to me. I just made that point to get some opinions.

 

I can't imagine someone like you having any real problem with me unless for some reason you feel we don't click, which is nothing personal.. I'm probably leaning in the nerdy/hipster/laid back direction, I'm just lacking the handle bar moustache, the rich family to leech off of, the cocaine parties, obscure bands that no one's ever heard of, the superior attitude that comes with such a taste, ect.

[GoodOnPaper]

I've turned down guys for all sorts of reasons: I didn't think we'd have much in common to talk about (i.e. they aren't in my general kind of laid back/liberal/hipster/nerd/ish circle, which is easy to tell), he had expressed views that were politically or morally different to mine, I wasn't attracted, talking to him was awkward rather than fun, etc.

 

Still sounds awfully quick . . . but understandable when you're confident of having a regular stream of opportunities. When you can't consider future opportunities to be a given, it casts a very different light on things -- you don't filter people out lightly.

[fortyninethousand322]

I'm not saying you'll always know them, but things that come up in conversation can tell you and such. If I didn't know them, obviously I couldn't have rejected a guy for it, but I find conversation brings out at least some of the person's interests/thoughts/etc. If it didn't, I wouldn't go out with the guy because he makes lousy conversation and I would assume a whole night of lousy, bland, meaningless conversation that tells me nothing about who he is could potentially await. Bummer.

 

(I'm not saying I expect to learn EVERYTHING from one conversation, mind you, just something.)

 

Well, in my experience I'd much rather go on a lousy date than no date at all. Unless there was something glaringly off about the person (like they struck me as a serial killer or something shady like that).

 

I think a lot of guys are similar in this way. That's one of the differences between men and women.

 

Still sounds awfully quick . . . but understandable when you're confident of having a regular stream of opportunities. When you can't consider future opportunities to be a given, it casts a very different light on things -- you don't filter people out lightly.

 

You said this better than I did.

[Titania22]

Too bad it's an integral part of my personality. That's WHY I said it was a socially maladjusted quality. Being an intellectually challenging and inquisitive person is both a strength (it's what makes me unique and interesting) and a flaw (other people think it's tiring and boring and sucks.)

 

But you can pick and choose when and how you use this quality. People choose how they behave, otherwise we wouldn't behave differently around different people. So you can take this behaviour trait which is an integral part of who you are, and learn how to express it in different ways at different times. Even a couple caught in a cycle of arguing can break it, if one partner goes out of their way not to participate anymore and channels their annoyance and anger into something else.

 

I was a intellectually challenging and inquisitive person for most of my life (possibly still am), but it didn't mean I had to nitpick every little thing all the time. You can learn to choose your battles, and also find outlets for that side of yourself (why I love my philosophy group so much).

 

If you practice mindfulness, or practice watching yourself in your interactions (as an outside observer), I am sure you will find you will learn when it is a good time to express your full inquisitive power and when holding your tongue would be a better strategy.

[zengirl]

Well, in my experience I'd much rather go on a lousy date than no date at all. Unless there was something glaringly off about the person (like they struck me as a serial killer or something shady like that).

 

I think a lot of guys are similar in this way. That's one of the differences between men and women.

 

Well, men are doing the asking in most scenarios. I don't think many men approach women they don't want to go on dates with or think would be lousy dates. I've certainly been rejected, so men do turn down dates, and many more men choose not to ask out the women they're not into.

 

If you truly would rather go on a lousy date than no date, that's sad. I don't think SD would. He certainly wouldn't go on a date with a girl who didn't match his criteria.

[verhrzn]

But you can pick and choose when and how you use this quality. People choose how they behave, otherwise we wouldn't behave differently around different people. So you can take this behaviour trait which is an integral part of who you are, and learn how to express it in different ways at different times. Even a couple caught in a cycle of arguing can break it, if one partner goes out of their way not to participate anymore and channels their annoyance and anger into something else.

 

I was a intellectually challenging and inquisitive person for most of my life (possibly still am), but it didn't mean I had to nitpick every little thing all the time. You can learn to choose your battles, and also find outlets for that side of yourself (why I love my philosophy group so much).

 

If you practice mindfulness, or practice watching yourself in your interactions (as an outside observer), I am sure you will find you will learn when it is a good time to express your full inquisitive power and when holding your tongue would be a better strategy.

 

Well I don't nitpick. I just... debate. And talk. It's just, the topics I talk about and the way I talk about them exhaust people. I do not know how to shut it off short of shutting up completely (which is what I usually do.) There is literally not a single situation in my life where people welcome this side of me. So I use it and annoy people, or I shut up and sit there invisible. That's just how it is.

 

Horsecrap.

 

I guarantee you have some physical traits that just pop! I've never met a truly plain woman.

 

Most guys think of Helen Hunt or Sarah Jessica Parker as plain types... but they each have eye catching features that they play up.

 

On what planet do people think Helen Hunt is plain?? And I haven't heard people describe SJParker as plain... more like "misshapen", "ugly" and "looks like a foot."

 

Sorry, you might just have to accept that there are truly plain (or ugly/plain) women out there.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Yeah. I agree. Someone in his shoes really has no business being picky. I threw out my standards years ago.

 

It's fine if he's picky. His "B cup" is equivalent to some girl's 6'2", or MD degree, or compassionate nature. No different.

[zengirl]

Well I don't nitpick. I just... debate. And talk. It's just, the topics I talk about and the way I talk about them exhaust people. I do not know how to shut it off short of shutting up completely (which is what I usually do.) There is literally not a single situation in my life where people welcome this side of me. So I use it and annoy people, or I shut up and sit there invisible. That's just how it is.

 

Or you could develop additional conversational skills and expand your range of socializing. It is possible.

[fortyninethousand322]

Well, men are doing the asking in most scenarios. I don't think many men approach women they don't want to go on dates with or think would be lousy dates. I've certainly been rejected, so men do turn down dates, and many more men choose not to ask out the women they're not into.

 

If you truly would rather go on a lousy date than no date, that's sad. I don't think SD would. He certainly wouldn't go on a date with a girl who didn't match his criteria.

 

Well I think SD's criteria is thin or average build with large breasts. Not necessarily a laundry list but kind of shallow, so I agree with you there.

 

I think guys who are getting dates on the regular are probably ok with passing up less than ideal dates. I haven't been on a date in over a year. Some female company (even incompatible company) would be nice.

 

The last girl I went on a date with was kind of an airhead and was obnoxiously skinny (like 80 pounds) and yet when she dropped off the map it bummed me out a bit. I'd rather be dating her today than sitting here writing on LS about how I can't get a girl. There was nothing "special" about her (we only went out twice so I didn't know her all that well) but I mean she was fine. I don't know if that's "sad" but it's reality. I can't be waiting around forever while everyone else gets relationship experience.

Edited February 29, 2012 by fortyninethousand322

[somedude81]

It's fine if he's picky. His "B cup" is equivalent to some girl's 6'2", or MD degree, or compassionate nature. No different.

In what reality is a woman having smaller than average breasts equal to a man being 6'2 or having a MD?

[verhrzn]

Or you could develop additional conversational skills and expand your range of socializing. It is possible.

 

Brings up an interesting question: can you teach social skills? Or conversational skills? I've read self-help books on how to talk like the neurotypicals, but when I try to implement them, it just goes... wrong. It's very stilted and weird. When I'm REALLY trying hard, I can get a conversation rolling in which the other person spends the next hour talking about themselves, and I just smile and nod like a bobble head, but that doesn't seem right either.

 

Also, how does one expand their socializing range outside of college? I do volunteering and book clubs, but I run into the exact same problems.

[Titania22]

Well I don't nitpick. I just... debate. And talk. It's just, the topics I talk about and the way I talk about them exhaust people. I do not know how to shut it off short of shutting up completely (which is what I usually do.) There is literally not a single situation in my life where people welcome this side of me. So I use it and annoy people, or I shut up and sit there invisible. That's just how it is.

 

/QUOTE]

 

I get that it feels like this. I have felt like this many times. It gets better. As you get older 2 things happen. You will have had most types of conversations more then once, and may not be as interested in wasting your breath sometimes (also your point of view gets refined), and secondly you start not giving a crap if it annoys people or not, and so when you have something you want to say you will just say it, anytime with no apologies.

 

Now as someone terminally single I can't say whether that will make it easier or harder to find and keep a relationship. But you will probably find you will make friends with other strong confident people. And if you aren't fussy about looks, age, etc, you will probably meet men that are attracted to your strength.

[reallyhotguy]

Maybe so!

 

Still, that only shows that something about your approach wasn't working. It still doesn't offer a reason to believe that something was bad, or is generally bad, about you.

 

I pick up on this conflation a lot -- in fact, it's all over this thread. It's a tricky one, because it can really mess with your self worth.

 

A woman whom you've only spoken to casually for a few minutes can't possibly begin to judge you as a person, because they simply don't know you. Stop and really let that sink in for a moment. It's simply, factually, categorically not possible for a stranger to judge you or aspects of you as good or bad, because they don't have that information (and therefore can't make judgments on it).

 

Think about that for a second -- who in this world does know that information, and could make that judgment? Very few. Possibly parents, family members, close friends. Also, possibly, no one.

 

Rather, what these strange women do have is their perception of your approach -- what they concluded from the 30 minutes (or whatever) of meeting you. This is not an omniscient, wholly encompassing evaluation of you as an entity; rather, it's an evaluation of some things you once said and did (including how you appeared physically), and will never do exactly the same again.

 

This conflation can get so ingrained in some people that they will start basing conclusions on it, rather than recognizing it as useless (being a logical error). Which is why you get threads like this, with somedude feeling bad about himself and angry at women for making him feel bad, when it was in fact his own faulty interpretation that allowed him to make himself feel bad.

 

Wow, this is a really thoughtful and insightful post.

 

Once somedude reads you wrote he will surely snap out of it.

[HeavenOrHell]

You're generalising again, some men wouldn't date an insecure women and some women (me included) will date insecure men.

I love shyness in a man.

 

 

Adding on to my previous post,

 

it ties into what I said in an earlier thread I wrote that women are allowed to be insecure and they can still date. Sure a woman who isn't confident isn't going to be as attractive as one who is, but being insecure isn't a dealbreaker and many guys will look it over. Songs

prove it.

 

But if a guy even hints at being insecure, he'll be hard-pressed to find a girl who can look past it. It's almost as if women naturally look for weakness in men and run when they sense it.

[verhrzn]

Or you could develop additional conversational skills and expand your range of socializing. It is possible.

 

Also, can I just make an observation how hilarious it is that you keep telling me to like myself, and then as soon as I reveal a personality trait that I don't have too much of a problem with (that I actually like about myself!), you take the first opportunity to tell me to change?

[HeavenOrHell]

Yes, reported the troll hours ago, but they're still here

 

 

Anybody else notice the obscene post?

[HeavenOrHell]

uhm, shallow?!

 

 

What's wrong with wanting at least a B cup?

 

As far as I've read, a C is average.

[Titania22]

Brings up an interesting question: can you teach social skills? Or conversational skills? I've read self-help books on how to talk like the neurotypicals, but when I try to implement them, it just goes... wrong. It's very stilted and weird. When I'm REALLY trying hard, I can get a conversation rolling in which the other person spends the next hour talking about themselves, and I just smile and nod like a bobble head, but that doesn't seem right either.

 

Also, how does one expand their socializing range outside of college? I do volunteering and book clubs, but I run into the exact same problems.

 

It's just practice Verhrzn. I used to be terrified of people, but I made myself say hello whenever i found myself sitting sit to someone. At that point it wasn't about making conversation for me, it was about getting over my fear. Basically it's great you can already get the conversation rolling with people, so now you can play by trying injecting when they are speaking with random topic changes or just start talking about something you are interested in. It's doesn't matter. It's just practice. Conversation is an art, and most of us say the wrong things and wreck conversation flow alot before we start to get the hang of it.

 

Go to meetup groups if you want the opportunity to practice on strangers.

 

And I understand, it's so boring if the person with you is talking about something you have no interest in.

[verhrzn]

It's just practice Verhrzn. I used to be terrified of people, but I made myself say hello whenever i found myself sitting sit to someone. At that point it wasn't about making conversation for me, it was about getting over my fear. Basically it's great you can already get the conversation rolling with people, so now you can play by trying injecting when they are speaking with random topic changes or just start talking about something you are interested in. It's doesn't matter. It's just practice. Conversation is an art, and most of us say the wrong things and wreck conversation flow alot before we start to get the hang of it.

 

Go to meetup groups if you want the opportunity to practice on strangers.

 

And I understand, it's so boring if the person with you is talking about something you have no interest in.

 

See, that's the thing, I have no problems with strangers. It's once I start trying to transition them into friends... ya know, be myself, instead of just polite and friendly... that things go off-kilter.

 

Maybe my brain is just not wired like other people's.

[HeavenOrHell]

So it's ok to be resentful/p*ssed off with women who won't date shorter men like you (although I think it's probably your personality, rather than your height which puts women off), but you require a woman with at least average sized boobs?! Pot. Kettle. Black.

If you want a loving lasting r/ship then boob size does not matter.

 

 

Then that still counts for what I intended in the OP.

 

And where did you get that idea that a fat old man counts as an option for women? No I specifically didn't say that they didn't, I just assumed that was understood.

 

 

Where did you get the idea that I think anybody, no matter what their characteristics makes them less of a person?

 

 

Because a flat-chested fatso is flat-chested and fat. That's two things.

 

I'm just short.