Single and looking ladies, and options

[zengirl]

This is kinda interesting to me and perhaps OT but what exactly do you mind about being fetishized?

 

It makes me feel objectified. I don't want to be strongly liked for purely superficial qualities. I don't want to be seen as a trophy. I am a whole person.

 

This is not the same as tending to date Asians or preferring Asian features or whatnot---a fetish is very different from a preference, even a strong one.

 

I ask this as someone who has only ever dated ethnic women (not Asian women though) and I think it is somewhat of a fetish. But I always thought the problem with Asian fetishes specifically had to do with certain cultural stereotypes associated with Asian women that caused the problem. Or is that incorrect?

 

For me, it's not the cultural stereotypes at all. I wouldn't think a guy had a fetish purely because he'd only dated Asian girls, though. Liking particular features, again, is not the same thing. SD doesn't just 'like' big breasts---he fixates on them, talks about them constantly on here, and acts genuinely WEIRD about them.

 

To be fair, I think what's happening here it not so much that somedude fetishizes breasts. I think it's more likely that somedude is just so out of touch with women, sex, and love, that he fixates on certain superficial parameters as being important to him.

 

This is likely true; I think his fetish is more an extension of this, yes.

 

But that's the weird thing... they're NOT jerks. They're just jerks to ME. To the women they date before and after me, they're perfect gentlemen.

 

Seriously, I seem to turn guys into jerks. It's bizarre.

 

They're nice to girls they want to impress and date, and you think that makes them genuinely nice? That's just untrue. Genuinely nice people are nice to EVERYONE. Anyone with half a brain is nice to people they want to date.

 

I think it's primarily physical.

 

My guess is if I had something wrong with my personalty, I wouldn't be able to have close friendships with women.

 

Are you able to have truly close friendships with women? Not be an orbiter but actually be a close friend? Do you have actual friends who are women?

[zengirl]

I don't know. She talked about breasts more than I did.

 

This would suggest to me that she DID know.

[somedude81]

Wrong, there is a big difference between having a very close female friend, and waking up next to someone regularly. The women who wakes up next to you, knows you a lot better.

I'm sure you're right.

 

But I've never had a woman attracted to me enough to let me get that close to her.

 

Are you able to have truly close friendships with women? Not be an orbiter but actually be a close friend? Do you have actual friends who are women?

I've had women friends that I had absolutely no interest in. Some of those we shared many personal details about ourselves.

 

I don't really play the orbiter role because I don't like sharing a girl with other guys. It's always been one-on-one.

 

Right now, I only have online female friends and that's a decision I made. I don't have any interest in making any in-person female friends at this point in my life because I'd most likely fall for them.

This would suggest to me that she DID know.

How so?

 

The first time she brought it up was when we were in the mall. I'd asked her why she doesn't wear girly shirts (she always wears T's) and she responded, "It's cause my chest is too big"

 

Then one day when we were at the beach we were talking about old people and she brought up how much her boobs are going to sag when she gets old.

 

That doesn't sound like something a girl who thinks I might like big boobs would say.

[Lonely Ronin]

I'm sure you're right.

But I've never had a woman attracted to me enough to let me get that close to her.

 

Yes, and as others have said you have personality issues that's are most likely repulsing them.

 

Right now, I only have online female friends and that's a decision I made. I don't have any interest in making any in-person female friends at this point in my life because I'd most likely fall for them.

 

This is a problem. You should be able to have female friends and not fall for them. It's also a problem, because you're not practicing. To be 100% clear, I don't mean hitting on or flirting with practice. I mean practice having an adult conversation with a woman.

 

If you can't have a conversation with women you're not interested in, or ones you're that aren't available, or not interested in you you're never going to be able to have normal ones with women you are.

[zengirl]

Someone who is self-conscious of their breasts and what other people might be thinking about them would say that. You mistakenly think it's 'flattering' if someone has a fixation; it's not, and you wouldn't pick up on it the way you would someone 'liking' something. If you subconsciously picked up on it, it'd just make you uncomfortable about that facet. Psychologically, that's how it'd likely play out, I'd say.

 

I don't really play the orbiter role because I don't like sharing a girl with other guys. It's always been one-on-one.

 

In the relationship with D, you were an orbiter by what I meant. An orbiter is any guy in the so-called 'friend zone' bull****---a guy who hangs around a woman hoping to date her.

 

Right now, I only have online female friends and that's a decision I made. I don't have any interest in making any in-person female friends at this point in my life because I'd most likely fall for them.

 

So you have no friends of any kind?

[ThaWholigan]

Someone who is self-conscious of their breasts and what other people might be thinking about them would say that. You mistakenly think it's 'flattering' if someone has a fixation; it's not, and you wouldn't pick up on it the way you would someone 'liking' something. If you subconsciously picked up on it, it'd just make you uncomfortable about that facet. Psychologically, that's how it'd likely play out, I'd say.

 

 

 

In the relationship with D, you were an orbiter by what I meant. An orbiter is any guy in the so-called 'friend zone' bull****---a guy who hangs around a woman hoping to date her.

 

 

 

So you have no friends of any kind?

I don't think he does have friends, at least none he has specified. He needs to build a social circle definitely, and go out and do activities with them. He will find that he is much happier, much in the same way that I have been whenever I have gone out and done things with people.

[somedude81]

Yes, and as others have said you have personality issues that's are most likely repulsing them.

Round and round we go.

 

This is a problem. You should be able to have female friends and not fall for them. It's also a problem, because you're not practicing. To be 100% clear, I don't mean hitting on or flirting with practice. I mean practice having an adult conversation with a woman.

 

If you can't have a conversation with women you're not interested in, or ones you're that aren't available, or not interested in you you're never going to be able to have normal ones with women you are.

I have no problem having adult conversations with women.

 

I fall for them because if we spend enough time together, I start to like them. I'm at a stage in my life where I need a GF and that gets placed on whatever girl I spend the most time with.

Someone who is self-conscious of their breasts and what other people might be thinking about them would say that. You mistakenly think it's 'flattering' if someone has a fixation; it's not, and you wouldn't pick up on it the way you would someone 'liking' something. If you subconsciously picked up on it, it'd just make you uncomfortable about that facet. Psychologically, that's how it'd likely play out, I'd say.

 

I don't get any of that.

 

I still say that until the very last we hung out and when I made that joke, she had no idea I liked her boobs.

 

In the relationship with D, you were an orbiter by what I meant. An orbiter is any guy in the so-called 'friend zone' bull****---a guy who hangs around a woman hoping to date her.

I also liked her as a friend.

 

She fulfilled several needs.

[AD1980]

I don't think he does have friends, at least none he has specified. He needs to build a social circle definitely, and go out and do activities with them. He will find that he is much happier, much in the same way that I have been whenever I have gone out and done things with people.

 

That's so true..you cant live in isolaton its a terrible place..While my ability to attract the opposite sex is horrendeous and i get down on myself for it having friends takes the ease off because i know i have people who cate about me and love me..

 

If i had no friends and nothign to do except think about my problems with women id go crazy its not healthy.. SD needs somebody he can lean on..

[Nightsky]

Porn and hookers are pure fantasy and contribute to the problem. I know porn is a controversial topic here, but I think we can all safely say that somedude is not an "average" user of porn.

 

I would be surprised if years of having porn fantasy be the only rewarding release for his sexual drive is not a contributor, or at least a corrolary, to the fact that all of his romantic interactions with living women have been in one-sided fantasies. But it's not so much porn I want to focus on, but the fact that we can't even trust somedude to know what his preferences are, because he's -- frustratingly -- the very last person to understand the implications of what he's telling us.

 

I think its clear to every one including Somedude that he doesn't really know what he's doing or talking about.

 

Sexual energy would have made a "man" of him so to speak. Instead he put all that sexual energy into porn and hookers. He's a man who says he doesn't even feel sexual interest when around women. It's only when he is alone and away out of sight of real women that he can feel horny.

 

He comes here saying "Single and looking ladies" you have options. Because in his mind its to uncomfortable to face the facts. He basicly feels if a man can walk, talk, and isn't a danger he should be dated. He's taking attraction out of the picture because he has no understanding of it. All he knows are pictures/video and hookers.

 

He needs to re-route his sexual energy toward real woman. He needs to know what it is to get horny in the presence of a girl he likes. Get horny around a girl who he is talking to instead of just feeling scared and upset. He's angry at women and wants some magical fantasy. He needs to give himself a reality check.

[Lonely Ronin]

Round and round we go.

 

By all means keep hiding behind the they don't like me because of how I look BS. You hide behind it because you can play the victim then, and blame everything women. Your problems are because of your personality/mental issues.

 

I have no problem having adult conversations with women.

Based on what you say below you can't.

 

I fall for them because if we spend enough time together, I start to like them. I'm at a stage in my life where I need a GF and that gets placed on whatever girl I spend the most time with.

 

Dude, this is so many kinds of f'ed up I don't know what to say. This is the type of thing you need to talk to a Psychologist about.

[reallyhotguy]

Dude, this is so many kinds of f'ed up I don't know what to say. This is the type of thing you need to talk to a Psychologist about.

 

I don't think it's "****ed up" per se. But it does remind me of how Tony Soprano (thought he) fell in love with his therapist, because she was kind and listened to him, and he craved that comfort and support.

 

It's just like Somedude said it is, basically. He develops infatuation with his female friends because they're women and they give him attention, and he's fixated on getting that. He conflates it with love because it's such a strong need for him, but it's not the same thing.

Edited March 1, 2012 by reallyhotguy

[marinelife3]

Hi, Somedude, delurking here to make a couple of points

 

1. You seem to think that a girl below a B-cup would have no breasts at all. In fact, I'm an A cup and my tits are great, at least in my opinion. And there's girls who are a B cup but their breasts are as hard as rocks and not "grab-able" at all.

 

2. I'm going to venture my opinion on what your problem is:

Most guys generally will do what it takes to get laid. If they have to be in a long distance relationship, be with a person who's body type they don't prefer, be with someone older, etc, then they'll do it. A normal guy in your position would meet a less then perfect girl over the internet who lives in Sacramento and he'd drive 200 miles to see her once a month because that would be better then nothing.

 

Your problem is that you think objectively you deserve a more desirable girl in a more convenient situation, and holding out for that is somehow, totally incomprehensibly, more important to you then getting laid or being in a relationship. Why? Why? I don't get it. If you can get it up for a girl, isn't she hot enough for you, in some sense? And then couldn't other things about her- personality, kindness, etc, compensate for her physical deficiencies?

 

It almost seems that sex/being in a relationship isn't really that important to you, or else you would have been spending the last decade perpetually ratcheting down your standards (and expanding the situations you're willing to pursue women in- internet, bars, clubs, parties) until you finally reached the level at which you could get girls.

Edited March 1, 2012 by marinelife3

[Nightsky]

Hi, Somedude, delurking here to make a couple of points

 

1. You seem to think that a girl below a B-cup would have no breasts at all. In fact, I'm an A cup and my tits are great, at least in my opinion. And there's girls who are a B cup but their breasts are as hard as rocks and not "grab-able" at all.

 

2. I'm going to venture my opinion on what your problem is:

Most guys generally will do what it takes to get laid. If they have to be in a long distance relationship, be with a person who's body type they don't prefer, be with someone older, etc, then they'll do it. A normal guy in your position would meet a less then perfect girl over the internet who lives in Sacramento and he'd drive 200 miles to see her once a month because that would be better then nothing.

 

Your problem is that you think objectively you deserve a more desirable girl in a more convenient situation, and holding out for that is somehow, totally incomprehensibly, more important to you then getting laid or being in a relationship. Why? Why? I don't get it. If you can get it up for a girl, isn't she hot enough for you, in some sense? And then couldn't other things about her- personality, kindness, etc, compensate for her physical deficiencies?

 

It almost seems that sex/being in a relationship isn't really that important to you, or else you would have been spending the last decade perpetually ratcheting down your standards until you finally reached the level at which you could get girls.

 

All very logical, you have to realize we are dealing with predictable irational behavior here.

 

I love what you said about breasts. Size does not equal nice breasts in my world.

[somedude81]

I think its clear to every one including Somedude that he doesn't really know what he's doing or talking about.

 

Sexual energy would have made a "man" of him so to speak. Instead he put all that sexual energy into porn and hookers. He's a man who says he doesn't even feel sexual interest when around women. It's only when he is alone and away out of sight of real women that he can feel horny.

 

He comes here saying "Single and looking ladies" you have options. Because in his mind its to uncomfortable to face the facts. He basicly feels if a man can walk, talk, and isn't a danger he should be dated. He's taking attraction out of the picture because he has no understanding of it. All he knows are pictures/video and hookers.

All true. Though I've been with other women, but it wasn't exactly real. Not part of the seduce, date, kiss sex thing.

He needs to re-route his sexual energy toward real woman. He needs to know what it is to get horny in the presence of a girl he likes. Get horny around a girl who he is talking to instead of just feeling scared and upset.

How?

 

He's angry at women

Yes

and wants some magical fantasy

And you lost me.

I don't think it's "****ed up" per se. But it does remind me of how Tony Soprano (thought he) fell in love with his therapist, because she was kind and listened to him, and he craved that comfort and support.

 

It's just like Somedude said it is, basically. He develops infatuation with his female friends because they're women and they give him attention, and he's fixated on getting that. He conflates it with love because it's such a strong need for him, but it's not the same thing.

I've always wondered if I what I felt for those girls was love. Something inside me kept telling me that it wasn't.

 

I completely agree with your post.

2. I'm going to venture my opinion on what your problem is:

Most guys generally will do what it takes to get laid. If they have to be in a long distance relationship, be with a person who's body type they don't prefer, be with someone older, etc, then they'll do it. A normal guy in your position would meet a less then perfect girl over the internet who lives in Sacramento and he'd drive 200 miles to see her once a month because that would be better then nothing.

Meeting girls who want to sleep with me, regardless of where they aren't isn't as easy as you think it is.

 

 

Your problem is that you think objectively you deserve a more desirable girl in a more convenient situation, and holding out for that is somehow, totally incomprehensibly, more important to you then getting laid or being in a relationship.

I'm not holding out. I simply have no options.

It almost seems that sex/being in a relationship isn't really that important to you, or else you would have been spending the last decade perpetually ratcheting down your standards (and expanding the situations you're willing to pursue women in- internet, bars, clubs, parties) until you finally reached the level at which you could get girls.

Getting into a relationship is much more important to me than getting laid.

 

I've tired to meet girls in parties, bars, dance clubs. And I ratcheted my standards so low that I ended up "dating" an obese girl that disgusted me when she took her shirt off.

 

What you don't understand is that pursuing women with nothing but failure in return is tiring. Not only that it eats at my self-esteem and makes me hate myself.

[marinelife3]

"Trying" a bar or a party isn't like a one time thing that you then write off. I know it's hard to get girls. But every day in America there are disabled guys, toothless guys, guys with huge birthmarks on their faces who manage to get girls. They probably face massive amounts of rejection too, but they soldier through because getting laid is worth it for them. You're not uniquely cursed with some inability to get girls- if anything you are uniquely cursed with an inability to stand rejection.

 

I know you think "if i just had one success, just one, it would give me the strength to go out and keep trying", but you did have one "success" of sorts, the girl you dated- but it doesn't count because she was obese. And if you manage to get another girl interested in you, it probably won't count for some other reason.

 

I think one day you're going to just start aggressively online dating- clearly you are great at getting attention online, all your threads blow up and I created an account just to yell at you- and then you'll get some action. But you're gonna have to hit some sort of breaking point where you decide that no amount of rejection is worse then not getting laid- because, seriously, one day you will manage to convince another woman to date you. Maybe another obese woman, but her weight will be distributed in a way more pleasing to you. Who knows.

 

Again, there's not some sort of curse on your head where you are guaranteed never to get laid, ever, you're just wrapped up in this weird semantic tangle where you have no "options", and then options has its own special definition, and no one ever wants you, and "no one" has its own special definition, etc. I think most people have a similar struggle that you have, but yours is massively exploded by like the perfect storm of bad circumstances (mainly depression and living in south california)

[somedude81]

"Trying" a bar or a party isn't like a one time thing that you then write off. I know it's hard to get girls. But every day in America there are disabled guys, toothless guys, guys with huge birthmarks on their faces who manage to get girls. They probably face massive amounts of rejection too, but they soldier through because getting laid is worth it for them. You're not uniquely cursed with some inability to get girls- if anything you are uniquely cursed with an inability to stand rejection.

How do they find the strength to keep going?

 

I know you think "if i just had one success, just one, it would give me the strength to go out and keep trying", but you did have one "success" of sorts, the girl you dated- but it doesn't count because she was obese. And if you manage to get another girl interested in you, it probably won't count for some other reason.

Of course it doesn't count.

 

She was far below my physical standards.

She came on to me so I didn't have to do anything.

We didn't have sex, not even oral.

It only lasted two weeks then she got bored.

 

 

I think one day you're going to just start aggressively online dating- clearly you are great at getting attention online, all your threads blow up and I created an account just to yell at you- and then you'll get some action. But you're gonna have to hit some sort of breaking point where you decide that no amount of rejection is worse then not getting laid- because, seriously, one day you will manage to convince another woman to date you. Maybe another obese woman, but her weight will be distributed in a way more pleasing to you. Who knows.

I just don't think online dating is for me. I'm not that good looking, not that witty with my words, short, am looking for a girl several years younger than me and the only attention I'm good at getting is negative.

 

Hardly a good sign for OLD.

 

 

Again, there's not some sort of curse on your head where you are guaranteed never to get laid, ever, you're just wrapped up in this weird semantic tangle where you have no "options", and then options has its own special definition, and no one ever wants you, and "no one" has its own special definition, etc. I think most people have a similar struggle that you have, but yours is massively exploded by like the perfect storm of bad circumstances (mainly depression and living in south california)

A perfect storm of bad circumstances is a great way to explain why things are they are.

 

The cliff-notes:

 

I'm 5'6, my parents divorced when I was 3 and raised by an emotionally, mentally and physically abusive single mother. Saying I was a troubled child is an understatement. Throw in getting rejectedy every girl I have ever liked since I was 13 and that's why we have the me at 30 who thinks like I do.

[SteveC80]

Hi, Somedude, delurking here to make a couple of points

 

1. You seem to think that a girl below a B-cup would have no breasts at all. In fact, I'm an A cup and my tits are great, at least in my opinion. And there's girls who are a B cup but their breasts are as hard as rocks and not "grab-able" at all.

 

2. I'm going to venture my opinion on what your problem is:

Most guys generally will do what it takes to get laid. If they have to be in a long distance relationship, be with a person who's body type they don't prefer, be with someone older, etc, then they'll do it. A normal guy in your position would meet a less then perfect girl over the internet who lives in Sacramento and he'd drive 200 miles to see her once a month because that would be better then nothing.

 

Your problem is that you think objectively you deserve a more desirable girl in a more convenient situation, and holding out for that is somehow, totally incomprehensibly, more important to you then getting laid or being in a relationship. Why? Why? I don't get it. If you can get it up for a girl, isn't she hot enough for you, in some sense? And then couldn't other things about her- personality, kindness, etc, compensate for her physical deficiencies?

 

It almost seems that sex/being in a relationship isn't really that important to you, or else you would have been spending the last decade perpetually ratcheting down your standards (and expanding the situations you're willing to pursue women in- internet, bars, clubs, parties) until you finally reached the level at which you could get girls.

 

I would not advise him to go after girls hes not attracted to..First hed end up hurting her when he gets his confidence up to get hotter girls

 

Plus i dont believe anyone can be with someone they have no attraction to physically..I never had problems with women but if i did i would rather be alone with my hand then have sex with a girl who physically repulses me to where i cant get my dick hard..

[marinelife3]

My guess is that the way they find the strength to keep going is by thinking positively and holding onto the hope that one day they will find a partner.

 

You think that the last girl you dated didn't count because she was obese, you didn't have sex, etc. That's your mindset. So let's say that a month from now you meet a cute girl who is interested in you, and then it turns out she has herpes. You're gonna be like, "It didn't count, she has herpes, she was motivated by desperation, etc." So this is the weird contradiction you're caught in- you think "If only I had a basis for confidence, however meager, everything would be better" but because of your negative mindset you're never going to find that theoretical basis. So you have to learn to function without it- maybe it would be better if you thought of yourself as being like the guy with the huge birthmark on his face- he can't wait for objective proof that girls would be willing to sleep with him despite the birthmark, he just has to go out there and face all the humiliation and defeat and hope for the best.

[marinelife3]

And I think you need to clarify, for your own sake, about these preferences- you would "prefer" a younger girl, at least a b-cup, maybe likes video games, etc- but in reality wouldn't any girl that you were physically and mentally attracted to be sufficient? So for all practical purposes you should probably throw your preferences out the window.

[reallyhotguy]

I just don't think online dating is for me. I'm not that good looking, not that witty with my words, short, am looking for a girl several years younger than me and the only attention I'm good at getting is negative.

 

This is why you fixate on the attention you get from women: because you because you feel like you need it, but at the same time, you don't feel like you deserve it.

 

It's fundamental internal conflict that stresses you out and compels you to only enter one-sided fantasy relationships. It meets both of your needs -- you get to have feelings of desire, but you don't get loving care and affection (which you feel you don't deserve).

 

This isn't a solution to the problem, though, because rather than resolving your conflict, this continues it. You never satisfy your need for affection and so you are always in agony, but you are paradoxically comforted by the familiarity of the situation.

 

Having a mother who made you feel undeserving of her love, care, and affection could have a little something to do with why you have these conflicting desires. Is there any mystery here? It seems as plain as day that you're playing out this abusive relationship with her over and over like a modern day Sisyphus.

 

To stop this cycle and achieve happiness, you'll have to recognize first your pattern, and be aware when you're falling into it, and then make conscious decisions to not repeat the same mistakes.

 

At least, that's what I had to do. My mother is somewhat of a crazy person, and so for a while I only dated crazy women. I'm so glad I worked on this because I could not be dating a more stable, self-assured human being right now, and I feel like I'm doing the right thing for me, rather than some script set up by mother and strangely somehow performed for her benefit.

 

 

One thing to keep in mind is that you've been in this habit for a long time. To change it and thus enter a real relationship, you'd have to make yourself vulnerable, and probably confront old wounds. That comfort element is a ****ty one, because it's the line between where damage done to you, from your past, ends, and damage to yourself, that you should hold yourself accountable for, begins. For instance, the "unrealistic criteria" that people are picking up on may be related to this -- it would allow you to rule out potential relationships and therefore not have to confront the real issues.

 

 

Finally, these are just my guesses, based on my own sense of logic and experiences. I can't really offer tangible solutions either. I know you haven't had good experiences with this, but this is truly a job for a therapist.

Edited March 1, 2012 by reallyhotguy

[RedRobin]

And I think you need to clarify, for your own sake, about these preferences- you would "prefer" a younger girl, at least a b-cup, maybe likes video games, etc- but in reality wouldn't any girl that you were physically and mentally attracted to be sufficient? So for all practical purposes you should probably throw your preferences out the window.

 

I suspect this isn't even about his preferences. It is about what will make him look worthy to people in the outside world. Lots of people are like that.

 

It doesn't matter if she's a complete basket case or totally incompatible. As long as shes alot younger than him, is cute, has big boobs, and isn't overweight, he can show the world he isn't a loser.

 

It's like he's hoping to win the girl lottery instead of just working and saving like everyone else does. Or finding a way to be happy with what they have.

 

I always think it's sad when I see the poorest of the poor ponying up for $20 of lottery tickets every week. Sure. There's like a one in a bazillion chances they'll win. But that $20 is probably better spent on any number of other things.

[marinelife3]

Redrobin, I disagree. The poor guy's in southern california, he's been conditioned from birth to only find young, thin girls with large boobs attractive. I don't think he cares at all about the arm candy element.

[Nightsky]

Redrobin, I disagree. The poor guy's in southern california, he's been conditioned from birth to only find young, thin girls with large boobs attractive. I don't think he cares at all about the arm candy element.

 

Are you really a poster who started an account just to motivate somedude. It's all very fascinating marinelife3. Are you out giving him this advice while you serve... or are you dating/married to a marine. Maybe you're name refers to marine as in water.

[marinelife3]

Oh yeah, I just meant like underwater.

[Nightsky]

Oh yeah, I just meant like underwater.

 

So are you single and looking? Come to the off-topic thread I want to pick your brain.