Thinkalot Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 By the way sinner, interesting choice for your latest username. Link to post Share on other sites
sinner Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Thanks, Think. I like to keep things fresh (and honest). Link to post Share on other sites
Samson Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Yeah, successful institutions: Christianity, Taoism, Buddism, Hinduism. How's that for irony, Sinner? Link to post Share on other sites
sinner Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Not even irony can save marriage, my friend. It is a broken institution --one sliding into disintegration, disuse and dysfunctionality. Marriage is not so much an institution as an ideology, which I predict predict will collapse of its own weight and rot much like Soviet Communism did in the late 20th Century. When an ideology no longer gives meaning and purpose to people's lives, because it no longer reflects the reality experienced by more and more people, that ideology's days are numbered. People don't fail ideologies, ideologies fail people when they no longer reproduce meaning and purpose and mirror lived reality. Marriage is dead. Link to post Share on other sites
Thinkalot Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Originally posted by sinner Marriage is dead. Idealistic Thinkalot shudders and makes the sign of the cross, to ward off evil, bitter spirits. Oh, but hang on, the sign of the cross is from another institution under attack isn't it? Where to turn then? Within. My belief, my hope, my faith. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Remember the two crochety old coots in the balcony on the Muppets shows? Link to post Share on other sites
Thinkalot Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Originally posted by moimeme Remember the two crochety old coots in the balcony on the Muppets shows? excellent image moi! I can see them now, looking down on everything with their running, grumpy commentary... Link to post Share on other sites
sinner Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 And of course there are no problems inherent to marriage that the Muppets can't solve. Tis better to mock the messengers (both of whom happen to be long-time marrieds and actually have had extensive experience with the institution as opposed to learning everything about marriage by watching Dr. Phil and Oprah) than it is to seriously ponder their message: Marriage is not for everyone, perhaps most people, in this secular 21st Century. Its peak has passed. Link to post Share on other sites
Matilda Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 So is marriage the "evil empire"? You two aren't still married are you? Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 It's much easier to blame everything on the planet but oneself for one's problems. It's not that some people may have had wrong expectations or done something wrong in the marriages, it's that marriage as a whole is flawed. Link to post Share on other sites
ladyangel Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 So who here has been divorced? What were the reasons for your divorce(s)? Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Mine had nothing to do with the institution of marriage whatsoever Link to post Share on other sites
ladyangel Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Originally posted by moimeme Mine had nothing to do with the institution of marriage whatsoever Um...that wasn't the question. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 The question's irrelevant to this thread, IMHO. Could be the focus of a new one. Link to post Share on other sites
ladyangel Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Oh, suddenly it's not relevant to the topic? hmm. I guess I missed the funeral. I didn't realize someone had died and made you moderator. Or is it hall monitor? The topic is marriage, and this is a question about marriage, same as all the various topics above have been. As a matter of fact, the very first link talks about marriage; whether it will last or not, reasons for it working or not working. I was just asking about those whose marriage didn't work, what were the reasons. Anyway....since some people would rather avoid the subject, does anyone else care to share? Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Although I've never been divorced, my Mother is on number 4. And with all the husbands she's had, the husband got bored and found relations outside of the marriage. It's probably something my Mom did or didn't do....but that's the main reason for her divorces. So I would say lack of communication, falling into routine and the reputitous every day ho hum drove all the guys away. As far as my marriage? I know for a fact that my wife and I will be together until death!! We've been through the seperation, the affair, and now even her bi-tendancies were are working through together on. It hurts to be away from her and I look forward to the next time we are together. Everything around me reminds me of her....she's my best friend that I can tell anything to. Neither one of us can imagine what life would be without the other. We need each other and we vowed to raise a good Christian Family in front of God and that's just what we are doing. We don't believe in divorce, we believe that God will never give us a situation that we can't handle. Notice I said WE....... On top off all this.......SHE'S A FULL BLOWN HOTTIE!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
jmd28 Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 You know, the present answer to any question is partially based on what is going on in your present background. So a question somebody might have asked me two days ago vs. right now, may have complete different answers. I am experiencing a dilemma with my husband right now, so I don't feel my answers today, would have been the same answers 2 weeks ago when all was well. To these questions, I took into account my present feelings and tried to remember my past feeling over all and then tried to spread them over a period of time, which left a sort of distorted answer. So of course I ended up in the "Disaffected Lovers" group. Not a surprise for me giving my current circumstance. I tried to be as honest as I could on the quiz, but apparently there is a fine line between "agree" and "strongly agree" which has a huge impact on the outcome of the quiz. One point short would have put me in a better combination group for part A, and one point more would have put me in a worse combination group for part B. Link to post Share on other sites
sinner Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 So is marriage the "evil empire"? You two aren't still married are you? No, marriage is not an "evil empire." Although some marriages do resemble the Cold War with its "Mutually Assured Destruction." I've been married for 21 years. But as we outlive our dental fillings, sometimes we outlive our marriages. It happens on the backend of many a marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
therresa kennedy Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Hello Sinner, In one of your last posts you sounded horribly fatalistic regarding the institution of marriage, didn't you say it was "dead" that IS fairly harsh, and also a dircect peek into your own more than likely unhappy marriage. Having been married for 21 years I can imagine you and the wife have grown set in your ways in various things, and perhaps even the sex has grown cold, I have found that it is usually when the sex is unfulfilling that a relationship and/or marriage go's sour. A lot of men will justify their acts of infidelity on the fact that the wife is no longer "good" in bed, but that can go both ways. I for one, left my first husband BECAUSE he was such an incredibly lousey lay. I couldn't stand it any longer and just packed my bags and walked out after six years together. IF this is a possible situation for you, and IF you are bored with your wife in this respect, don't you think SHE might have the same kind of feelings? With all due respect, I think is is very sad and really cowardly to remain in an unhappy marriage, when the alternative is to free oneself and move on. My second husband and I just celebrated our 13th wedding anniversary, and we have been through a lot, two affairs on his part shortly after our marriage, and various other things. We have both been faithful to each other for over ten years now and are still happy to be in each other's company for a whole variety of different reasons. We have survived and we are quite content together, the main reason I think is that we are STILL sexually INTERESTED in one another. I do NOT think that the "institution of marriage" is dead, I think that a marriage DIES when the pleasure of the sex act between married couples dies. If good sex can be maintained, then the marriage has hope. Obviously this is not all of it, but in my opinion it IS about 80% of why marriages fail OR succeed. Just my thoughts, hope I haven't offended anyone, I'm getting a bad reputation on this forum as a big mouth, but I can deal with it. Best Regards Sinner, Link to post Share on other sites
sinner Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 therresa kennedy, When one criticizes the institution of marriage is that invariably a sign that the critic's marriage is sick or dying? Stated differently, is the marriage critic guilty of projecting his personal marital woes onto a larger stage? Yes and no. Looking at the divorce numbers (especially among the middle-aged)and the increasing number of NBMs ("Never Been Marrieds") something is certainly rotten in Marriage Land. On the other hand, as we use to say in the late 60s, the personal is the political. Is it sad and cowardly to remain in a dead marriage? Well, you're half right. I admit it's sad , but, at least in my case, it's not cowardly. I have 2 teenagers who I love more than life itself. I will not nuke their world unless I'm absolutely certain that my marriage is over. I'm always somewhat bemused by fidelist advice to leave marriages. So quick to sacrifice families on the altar of moral perfection. Is bad sex the root of the marital malaise? Not always. Sometimes people grow apart. That's all. Link to post Share on other sites
therresa kennedy Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Sinner, Yes, I think this does change things, I don't doubt that you love your two teens more than anything, I have a 12 year old daughter, and I also love her more than all else. You seem a gentling presence if I may say, one can tell from your writing ability, and even though its a huge presumption on my part, I still get a feeling of intuition of you in this regard. Probably as a result, like you say, you don't want to "nuke" your childrens life, and that is admirable on your part. I suppose we all do make endless concessions in our attempts to make life work, and I know from some of your previous posts that you have been unfaithful to your wife, but that you have attempted to be careful, I certainly hope so, for your childrens sake. As you have mentioned before, each situation is different, but I think it is important to consider how important it is to leave a failing or unhappy marriage FOR the childrens sake, more children have been irrepairably damaged due to two people being unable to say goodbye when their marriage is dying a slow and miserable death, dragging all the inhabitants of the family down with them in the process. And it is true that marriage can be a dying institution, but isn't it also true that it is continually being reborn, you can't kill the institution of marriage, it is like moss, or weeds, it won't go away, and that is because of people's ever springing reserves of HOPE in the arena of romantic love. In any event, as always your points are quite well taken. Best Regards, Link to post Share on other sites
Thinkalot Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Originally posted by therresa kennedy And it is true that marriage can be a dying institution, but isn't it also true that it is continually being reborn, you can't kill the institution of marriage, it is like moss, or weeds, it won't go away, and that is because of people's ever springing reserves of HOPE in the arena of romantic love. Good point. And sinner, no intent to attack the messenger in my earlier posts...I take your ideas on board, in this case, I just choose to reject some of them! Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Kids of twelve figure out when their parents are having affairs. Don't be so swift to assume they've never suspected anything. Link to post Share on other sites
Samson Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Well, Moi: So glad to hear you're sense of humor has not ranged far from the "Slap-dick" category. I'm somewhat surprised that we must marginalize the discussion to include a poll of individual experience while more globalized evidance supports the fact: marriage is becomming a much less attractive alternative, and societal change is forcing the vector to continue on this path. But I suppose it the argument cannot be sustained to contradict this evidence, then we might as well discuss individual experience. I'm married, and have been 14 years this past June, and I have 3 children: 10 yrs, 8,yrs, and almost 2 yrs. Happy now? Link to post Share on other sites
Thinkalot Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Originally posted by Samson I'm married, and have been 14 years this past June, and I have 3 children: 10 yrs, 8,yrs, and almost 2 yrs. Gee Samson, reading the young age of your kids, makes it easier to understand why you are trying so hard to keep your marriage working. Link to post Share on other sites
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