Do men touch casually when they aren't flirting?

[Stillgrowing]

I am married. I get a vibe from a (married) business associate that he likes me. Truth be told I'm attracted to him but would not act on it. I actually think he wouldn't act on it either. But i don't want it pushed to a limit where there is potential to cross a line. I do run into him occasionally spouseless while drinking-not something I can avoid unless I kill my entire social life to avoid random chance encounters. Anyway, we went, over the course of 5 years, from friendly chat, to a handshake (sweaty on his part), to a hug hello and goodbye. I've seen him say something to one friend after looking at me and shoot another friend a look when the friend referenced seeing me out one night. Saw him at a function that both of our families were at two weeks ago and he waved, we said hi, we didn't talk at length which is really odd for us which made me think that he didn't like me and it was just in my head and then when we briefly spoke I said I was nervous about something and he reached out and rubbed my arm just under my elbow. I need to see him for something business related within the next 2 weeks and am trying to figure out how to act. My personality is not cold, it's pretty warm plus I'm Italian, I hug everyone. I don't want to overreact and pull back and be bi$chy because we have a really good rapport which is important for business, but I don't want to lead him on. So are touches always flirty or was it just kindness?

[2sunny]

They are flirty. Designed to create intimacy by crossing a boundary that makes you think and wonder... Which it has!

 

Unless YOU draw a firmer boundary - you will end up his OW!

[standtall]

I'm a guy and I flirt on occasion for personal amusement and use that technique with certain women. IMHO, he is flirting with you. Whether or not it turns into more is up to you.

[maybealone]

I think touches are usually flirty. But in my experience, many married people (including me, though I am a woman) flirt without the intent of it ever being more than that. Flirting is fun and as the old saying goes, we're married, not dead. Personally, I wouldn't change your behavior with him.

 

After five years of friendship, hugging is an acceptable way to say hello or goodbye. And also after five years of friendship, you should feel perfectly fine with saying, "That makes me uncomfortable" to him if he ever makes you feel uncomfortable or makes you feel like he is trying to cross a line.

[Stillgrowing]

It's nice to get a little perspective.

 

I'm going to try to keep it at my same level of whatever it is that has been working for us for these five years. I guess I'm a little flirty too. You are so right, we're married not dead. I was thinking back on how I reacted after he touched my arm and I did a quick touch on his arm and I probably wouldn't have done that if I didn't think he was attractive. Since I only see him at my discretion for business I'll just make sure I don't seek him out more than I need to or get any more flirty. At any rate, it's nice to be flirted with and I'll keep it in mind that it's under my control to put the brakes on when I need to.

 

sg

[2sunny]

The fact that you say you are attracted to him is cause for concern. Mix that with alcohol and something is bound to happen when his M is having a bad day (they all do sooner or later).

 

Also - when you two are around family and he acts "cool/colder than normal" says he has a need to hide your friendship from others! Why is that?

 

IF you are friends - why can't other family know this? It makes it not right - the way he's hiding the "friendship".

 

He's grooming you for an affair - be certain of it! No married man touches anger woman on the elbow lovingly without an agenda. He intends to have sex- its only a matter of waiting until you allow it.

[DoubleAce]

I do run into him occasionally spouseless while drinking-not something I can avoid unless I kill my entire social life

 

Seems to me you're ripe for an affair because you are attracted to this man and your entire soicial life consists of going out drinking without your husband.

[2sunny]

Do you think he would touch you that way with his wife standing next to him?

 

If he wouldn't - then it IS terribly crossing an appropriate boundary for a married man!

[standtall]

 

He's grooming you for an affair - be certain of it! No married man touches anger woman on the elbow lovingly without an agenda. He intends to have sex- its only a matter of waiting until you allow it.

 

Sorry, I disagree. I have been touching my female coworker's elbow for the last 5 yrs and vice versa and I have not slept with her, nor do I/we have plans to do so.

[2sunny]

Sorry, I disagree. I have been touching my female coworker's elbow for the last 5 yrs and vice versa and I have not slept with her, nor do I/we have plans to do so.

 

And do you ignore her when your family is around? Do you act differently and cold toward her when others might see you two together?

[2sunny]

Sorry, I disagree. I have been touching my female coworker's elbow for the last 5 yrs and vice versa and I have not slept with her, nor do I/we have plans to do so.

 

I also have MANY male friends who touch me lovingly but respectfully.

 

Their behavior doesn't change at all to me - even/especially when their wife is with us.

 

Nothing to hide. And I wouldn't disrespect any marriage.

[maybealone]

Also - when you two are around family and he acts "cool/colder than normal" says he has a need to hide your friendship from others! Why is that?

 

IF you are friends - why can't other family know this? It makes it not right - the way he's hiding the "friendship".

 

If I understood things correctly, the elbow touching happened when they were at the family event with both families present. Maybe he wasn't chatty earlier that day for other reasons.

[Stillgrowing]

Seems to me you're ripe for an affair because you are attracted to this man and your entire soicial life consists of going out drinking without your husband.

 

Okay, I misspoke/exaggerated. I've been spending too much time with my 'tween girls evidently. It's not my entire social life that will be killed, my husband and I go out socially together, but a significant part of my social life is going out locally with girlfriends, who are also married. We don't drink a ridiculous amount and we don't go out constantly. Maybe twice a month, on weeknights. Weekends are reserved for husbands and kids. I encourage my husband to go out with his guy friends. I think it keeps a person balanced.

[2sunny]

Okay, I misspoke/exaggerated. I've been spending too much time with my 'tween girls evidently. It's not my entire social life that will be killed, my husband and I go out socially together, but a significant part of my social life is going out locally with girlfriends, who are also married. We don't drink a ridiculous amount and we don't go out constantly. Maybe twice a month, on weeknights. Weekends are reserved for husbands and kids. I encourage my husband to go out with his guy friends. I think it keeps a person balanced.

 

Be honest with your H. Tell him you are attracted to this married man.

[Stillgrowing]

If I understood things correctly, the elbow touching happened when they were at the family event with both families present. Maybe he wasn't chatty earlier that day for other reasons.

 

Yes, it did. Either my mother or my daughter were standing near me, it was chaotic. His daughter may have been near him. The last couple of times we were at this event we talked at length, once with my husband sitting behind me although I don't know if he knew it was my husband, he certainly knew I was near my family because my kids were right there and were involved in a part of the conversation. I didn't seek him out to say hello either. I'm trying to treat him like any other person I do business with but I'm probably erring on the side of being cold rather than warm.

 

Regarding telling my husband that I'm attracted to him, I don't know that it would serve any good. I'm sure there are many women my husband is attracted to, I really don't want to hear about any of them. I just am 99% sure he isn't going to pursue any of them. I can't say 100% because I think there is always that chance but I hope my husband respects me and our marriage enough not to do anything. Frankly, my marriage sucks right now but I still hold that I would never cheat, it's partially out of respect for my marriage/husband/father of my children/my children and partially because I think that women shouldn't screw other women behind their backs. There's enough crap that we have to deal with day to day and if we all, at the very least, respected each others marriages it would make life a lot better for women in general.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Stillgrowing
i can't figure out quoting multiple people......

[standtall]

Be honest with your H. Tell him you are attracted to this married man.

 

Stillgrowing...from a guys perspective, do not do this. It will open up a can of worms that you won't be able to control. At the minimum it will effect his self esteem, act the worst...it will anger him and he will try to control you. Your thoughts are you own, you do not have to share them.

[Stillgrowing]

and this isn't the first person I've been attracted to and I'm sure it won't be the last and as I indicated in another post, I'm sure that my husband is/has been attracted to many women, he's a normal healthy male.

[The Blue Knight]

Yes, it did. Either my mother or my daughter were standing near me, it was chaotic. His daughter may have been near him. The last couple of times we were at this event we talked at length, once with my husband sitting behind me although I don't know if he knew it was my husband, he certainly knew I was near my family because my kids were right there and were involved in a part of the conversation. I didn't seek him out to say hello either. I'm trying to treat him like any other person I do business with but I'm probably erring on the side of being cold rather than warm.

 

Regarding telling my husband that I'm attracted to him, I don't know that it would serve any good. I'm sure there are many women my husband is attracted to, I really don't want to hear about any of them. I just am 99% sure he isn't going to pursue any of them. I can't say 100% because I think there is always that chance but I hope my husband respects me and our marriage enough not to do anything. Frankly, my marriage sucks right now but I still hold that I would never cheat, it's partially out of respect for my marriage/husband/father of my children/my children and partially because I think that women shouldn't screw other women behind their backs. There's enough crap that we have to deal with day to day and if we all, at the very least, respected each others marriages it would make life a lot better for women in general.

 

Hi SG,

 

Regarding your original question, there are different kinds of people so these aren't always easy questions to find answers too. Some are touchy and huggy as it sounds like you are. My wife is that way by the way. Hugs for everyone. But that's her personality.

 

But, there are very few men who are innately touchy (especially in this sexual harassment world we live in) and it crosses social boundaries somewhat when married people are reaching out and touching one another, but it also depends on the type of touch.

 

If for instance my wife was standing in a restaurant or public place and a guy who knew her was gently grasping her lower arm while engaged in a conversation, that's crossing the line and he'd be losing the arm fairly quickly because that too me is hinting at intimacy.

 

My guess is he's using the tactic as a barometer to see where you're at. Some men use words (flirty conversation) to check where a woman's (affair) barometer is at, and others use variations of those techniques.

 

I would say you're already aware of it and I would further suggest you don't lead him on by hugging or touching in any way. You may want to invoke more conversations about your husband and kids around him as a verbal sign (happily married!!!) so he takes the hint that way.

 

I would not tell your husband this as some suggested as it serves no purpose but to make him feel ill at ease. As you said, your husband is certainly attracted to other women, but he doesn't come home and throw it in your face because you wouldn't want to hear it.

 

Nor would my wife if I told her I'm attracted to another woman. I do own up to being attracted to Jennifer Aniston however because I'm safe with that one.

[itsourchoice]

I think this is a crap thread. Not the question by the OP but the responses from most everyone. Just because a guy touches your elbow doesn't mean he wants to boink you. Sorry. I am flirty by nature and I don't plan to sleep with the ppl that I flirt with. I am a single woman in a business full of men. So, being a little flirty gets me a long way in getting what I need out of a business relationship. Notice I said A LITTLE flirty. I don't throw myself at anyone, but come on... a few touches, a look? No way you can write anything into that.

 

Also, you guys are not giving the OP enough credit. Just b/c she is attracted to him, that doesn't mean that she is going to have a martini and jump him in the bathroom of a bar. WTF? Let's have a little faith here, people.

 

 

OP, as for how you should act when around him... just be yourself. Don't let anyone make you uncomfortable. If he crosses a line, that's one thing, but just be cool. I am sure it is fine.

[loveandlove]

I think touchy-feely just depends on the person. I don't find that guys do this, and it's not that they don't to me but I don't see it happening as much as I see women doing it. Also the older the less frequent. I think it is flirting matched with how they are acting overall, so yes it could be flirting. But it really depends if the person might just be touchy-feely in general! I'd see how they are with other people.

[BETTERFLIRT]

My personality is not cold, it's pretty warm plus I'm Italian, I hug everyone. I don't want to overreact and pull back and be bi$chy because we have a really good rapport which is important for business, but I don't want to lead him on. So are touches always flirty or was it just kindness?

You are all so good in your answers to that question. I even do really find words to add to the discussion due that almost everything is already said nonetheless i want to imphasise saying that your personal decisions are what matter. In many cases I treat being Matrimonal advisor/councelor I often say that people must understand the concept of appreciating and loving someone. They are so closed that they always confuse one for other. Loving is what will ever change whatever the situation is, moment or social condition. Being with your spouse does not really mean you do love him even for so long can it be. Understand me please. I do not say you do not. If you revise your mind the sircumtances in which you and your husband were bounded you can realise or just confirm what i am meaning.

The other point is that situations can be changed during the age if we human being do not pay attention to every single thing we have to do to keep in harmony a sentimental relationship. What do i mean by this? Perhaps spychologically you need yo refresh your love otherwise your spouse needs to pay more attention to your sexual desire to making sure you do not go through someone else's route. I know how hard it is to be in that situation being maybe young nonetheless you can control all this if you take a while to seriously think about what you must do.

[Stillgrowing]

Thanks for the male insight, Blue knight! I appreciate all the responses. I also appreciate that not everyone assumes I'm going to boink someone in a bathroom just because the opportunity is there. and I wouldn't assume that this guy would either.

 

I am not young as the last poster suggested, but I appreciate any young vibes I can get! I'm 43 and have been married/with my husband for over half of my life. Regarding growing my marriage and rekindling love, that's really not the issue here. I'm just trying to gauge my reactions to his actions and make sure that I'm not either reading things wrong or blindsided and make a poor impulsive decision. My marriage is in whatever state it's in and I'm trying very hard to not let any unhappiness on my own home front guide any actions. Marriages will be up and down and somewhere in the middle and for me, my actions have to "stay the course" no matter what. Even if I was blissfully happy I would be asking this question.

 

Hope everyone enjoys the weekend!

[BETTERFLIRT]

I better get you now. What can I suggest? Try to be close to him that you find more opportunities to express yourself to and make clear your reactions that he understand your view point about his behavior. Being a man I am more than sure he will interprete your ways and help you getting the correct answer.

[Stillgrowing]

Women DO NOT allow men to "casually touch" them unless the women are flirting.

 

Hope that answers your question.

 

ahhh... thanks for clarifying. It's MY fault that he reached out and touched my arm. I get it now.

[Stillgrowing]

It's not your fault the first time he ever did it.

 

It is your fault for not setting appropriate boundaries immediately, allowing this sort of touching to happen over and over. That is, if you wanted it to stop.

 

If you wanted it to stop, you would put him in his place: "Please don't touch me like that. It makes me uncomfortable. Let's keep things professional, O.K.?" Said without a smile. Like if he does it again he might be facing a sexual harassment complaint.

 

But you don't want it to stop.

 

If he's flirting, then you're flirting equally as much.

 

The intent of your post is to think aloud and get validation for the pretense that this is all on him and none of it is on you.

 

You reacted sharply to my post since I called you out on it.

 

You even state in your first post you are attracted to him. Obviously your interactions with him are communicating that you're attracted, or might be, and your letting him "touch" repeatedly confirms it to him.

 

the initial touching (handshake and then hug) was completely appropriate for the length of time we have known each other and how much our professional and personal lives cross over each other. There are other people in his social circle (men and women) that I also hug hello and one woman and I always kiss each others cheeks. I think I'll look a little psycho if I call him out on touching my elbow. This is why women get a bad rap of being bi$chy. My OP was not for validation that this guy does indeed like me, but wanting to make sure I wasn't imagining something that wasn't there and reacting harshly. I've totally changed the way that I interact with him now...sending information via email vs face-to-face. I don't think the bi$ch route is always needed to get a point across. I think it makes men leery of starting anything with anyone (talking single women here) and that's sad.