Dating an Agnostic?

[KathyM]

My intent was to help the original poster.

I said that Catholics are not traditionally Biblical fundamentalists; I stand by that statement.

My point in discussing fundamentalism is pointing out that your interpretation of the Bible comes from your intellect and not directly from God.

Obviously.

 

However, because Catholics are not traditionally Biblical fundamentalists, they don't see a letter from St. Paul to early Christians and think that's God talking directly to them about their marriage.

 

My point is this: you may feel that God forbids marrying an unbeliever; however, there is plenty of room in the Roman Catholic tradition to act differently. To say that the way you understand the Bible is the way God intended and the information that I've provided is incorrect is, at the very least, unhelpful. Moreover, it seems a lot like blasphemy to me, unless you really are God--in which case, please forgive me.

 

You who are a person on the internet really have no ability to accurately determine whether I'm a believer or not.

 

Additionally, you're only proving my point about how flawed your scholarship is. First, you claim that your interpretations are God's. Now, you derive your authority in deciphering Biblical doctrine from believing in God. Which is it?

 

Speaking of deciphering, how's your Greek? Hebrew? Just curious.

 

Yes, which is why I found it helpful to use boldface type to indicate that Paul himself was not doing so in the discussion of interfaith marriages that I cited.

 

Also, when Paul quotes Jesus, it's hearsay at best. St. Paul never met Jesus, at least not while Jesus was alive.

The way you seem to approach Biblical scholarship is more consistent with fundamentalism.

I did not suggest that. You're simply unhappy with my interpretation of the Bible.

Assuming that I'm an unbeliever does nothing to improve your scholarship, nor does it detract from mine.

This is a naive belief; Roman Catholics do not share it. Most of the people who have this belief are Biblical fundamentalists.

This contradicts your earlier statement that the Bible hasn't changed in 2,000 years.

The Bible is more than one book. I won't engage you in a discussion of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which had nothing to do with Christian texts like the epistles of St. Paul.

Good! This thread isn't about us, anyway.

It's really delusional of you to claim that your interpretations belong to God but mine are attempts to discredit the Bible. Thinking that you are God seems psychotic to me.

I did; the only one claiming that I'm an unbeliever with no interest in the Bible is you. I provided information from the Catechism of the Catholic Church that could empower the OP to make a difficult decision while still maintaining dignity and grace.

 

Afterward, I defended her from the unhelpful and irrelevant biblical fundamentalism that has nothing to do with God and everything to do with your ego.

You defining me as an unbeliever does not make it so.

You say I'm not a Catholic. Cite your source. Your imagination?

Or, did God pass you a note?

Is there a difference?

You make stuff up.

I feel like a broken record, but Roman Catholics are not traditionally Biblical fundamentalists. This interpretative difference you're describing is called critical thinking.

 

Kathy, you're behaving as though you started a thread about the Bible and I came in and ruined it with my atheism. I wonder how aware you are of how it actually happened, with you coming in here and saying we're all just placating the poster with what she wants to hear but you've got the dose of divine truth we've all been waiting for.

I've quoted directly from the Bible what the Bible says about marrying an unbeliever. Those are not my words, they are God's words. People can interpret them as they wish, but I think it's pretty straightforward and hard to misinterpret. As far as the rest of what you say, let me know when you've been confirmed as a Catholic, and then we can discuss the differences between Catholocism and other Christian faiths.

[Diamonds&Rust]

I've quoted directly from the Bible what the Bible says about marrying an unbeliever. Those are not my words, they are God's words.

Again, that's a position of Biblical fundamentalism that is not traditionally shared by Roman Catholics. It's neither relevant nor helpful.

People can interpret them as they wish, but I think it's pretty straightforward and hard to misinterpret.

Of course you do, you think your interpretations are divine.

As far as the rest of what you say, let me know when you've been confirmed as a Catholic, and then we can discuss the differences between Catholocism and other Christian faiths.

What does mean? Is it an acknowledgement that you're pretending that I'm not a Catholic so that you can ignore what I've written? Your logic should prevent you from discussing most topics, which makes me think the fallacy is intentional.

 

I never identified as an atheist. You just assume I'm an atheist because you don't like my biblical scholarship. Receiving the sacrament of Confirmation did not increase or decrease my reading comprehension abilities. Learning Greek and Hebrew did, however.

[TaraMaiden]

I've quoted directly from the Bible what the Bible says about marrying an unbeliever. Those are not my words, they are God's words. People can interpret them as they wish, but I think it's pretty straightforward and hard to misinterpret. As far as the rest of what you say, let me know when you've been confirmed as a Catholic, and then we can discuss the differences between Catholocism and other Christian faiths.

I was baptised, raised, had 1st holy communion, was confirmed and educated in a Roman Catholic convent boarding school, married in a catholic church in a nuptial Mass - to a follower of the church of England (Protestant) faith - but frankly, atheist, had two children who were also christened, had first holy communion, attended a R.Catholic school, and were confirmed. I was also a parent governor at their primary school for 4 years, and actively involved in parish matters.

so i know a bit about catholicism...

 

Now, having cleared that up - would you like to answer my response/post to you?

 

 

Paul quotes what the Lord said in many places in his letters to the Corinthians. The entire Bible is the inspired word of God, and is to be considered as such. You are suggesting that the chapters that Paul wrote are not a part of the Bible. You obviously do not know scripture, and I would suggest you, who are an unbeliever, stop trying to interpret something which you do not understand.

Are you discussing specifically the OT as well as the NT?

When you say 'the whole of the bible', are you including Exodus 21:7, Leviticus 12:1-5, as well as Ephesians 5:22-24 and 1 Timothy 2:11-15?

 

The words of the Bible have not changed in the 2000 years since they were written. Obviously, they were translated into different languages so that many would be able to read it, but it is the one book that has not changed, as evidenced by the Dead Sea Scrolls found some decades ago which show that the writings of the Bible back then have not changed from what they are now.

By virtue of the fact that the Bible has been translated into hundreds of different languages - it has changed - and how - in 2000 years.

I have seen two Bibles, both in English, which clearly gave different interpretations of the same passage... so you're being extremely naive if you presume the Bible has remained unchanged.

 

Let me know when your father intends to sell you into slavery.

Of course, I will use my non-Biblical ideology to save you.

 

If you want, that is.....

 

if you're going to cite the bible as a work of authority, you need to be prepared to back it 100% to the hilt.

[wuggle]

I provided information from the Catechism of the Catholic Church that could empower the OP to make a difficult decision while still maintaining dignity and grace.

 

Really like Hopefully the OP gets something from the to and fro which might be helpful, if she's still around.

[wuggle]

......educated in a Roman Catholic convent boarding school

 

Ah, it all makes sense now

[Nightsky]

I bet your family couldn't even pick out clothes you'd be happy with wearing at this point. So, you're going to let them pick your partner. Why not just let them arange your mariage or you so they can be happy.

 

If I were in your situation pissing off my family would be the only doable option. I would never break up with some one just for other people even if the entire world friends, family, and random people all hated my lover... as long as I wanted them. That's just the kind of guy I am. I know other people just care more about what others think. So, do whats good for you.

[hotloader]

I'm a practicing, rather progressive Catholic, who is happily dating a professed agnostic. We're both adults with college degrees and are both currently pursuing PhD's in chemistry.

 

I was in a similar situation. My ex-wife was also a "progressive Catholic", and her family were hard-line rigid Catholics. I am an atheist. Uh.....yeah. Her family pretty much considered me to be subhuman garbage, and I'm convinced that they'd probably take great pleasure in crucifying me, setting me on fire, and disemboweling me at the same time. These people hated me based solely on my beliefs (or lack thereof rather).

 

Our marriage ended because she cheated, which is kind of ironic. After six years of marriage, she was successful in having it annulled through the church. We had gotten married at a magistrate's office, so I guess the Catholic church didn't recognize us as being married. I don't know how that all works, but that's what she did. Too bad the state decided to uphold the validity of our marriage contract too, as I lost everything I'd ever worked for in my life through the divorce.

 

She married her new beau in a big Catholic ceremony at a big Catholic church, or so I've been told. I heard it was a beautiful ceremony. I don't have contact with her since we never had children together, so this is all secondary information. Incidentally however, she and her new hubby welcomed the birth of their first child a couple of years ago. There's just one little problem.....The baby isn't lily white like it's mother and "father". Yup, the child is half African-American. I often wonder how "the family" is dealing with that issue, and I can't help but feel more than a little vindicated when I think of it. Ahhhh. Karma.

[TaraMaiden]

Ah, it all makes sense now

 

trust me - that's just the tip of the iceberg.... !

[ChemistQueen]

Wow- what an amazing conversation.

 

I honestly appreciate all of the opinions expressed. I'm surprised by how many of you are Catholic or who have been Catholic. I don’t know why- I just am.

 

At my heart, I don't honestly think I'm even Catholic anymore. Not in the traditional sense. I've been irritated for years by the inability to accept homosexuality. I'm also irritated and disturbed by the teachings on sex, marriage, and family. I understand more of the biology of sex than any of the church bigwigs, and to me, science is the part of God's plan that we CAN prove. I've never seen anything in hard science to indicate that being gay is unnatural, or that human sexual interactions are for the purpose of procreation ONLY. Until I see chemical evidence to suggest that either of those things are fact, I'm not going to judge anyone for their individual actions. I only go to church because I find comfort there- and because I think that God is bigger than religion. I also happen to love the Eucharist.

 

That said, the Bible has never held much concrete relevance for me. There are comforting passages- beautiful words, wonderful stories that teach and illuminate things- but I’m probably as far opposite a fundamentalist as one can be. I have learned- through my classes at a Catholic undergraduate institution- that the Bible says just about everything you could want it to say. It supports both sides of every issue. No matter your agenda or intentions, you can find a biblical basis. There are even biblical passages that can be read in such a way- and by read I mean interpreted in a “literal” fashion- that are in support of abortion.

 

It is just this sort of analytical thinking about things that opened me up to the possibility of a relationship with someone who wasn't Catholic in the first place. I have dated several Catholic guys who didn't respect me or my intellectual endeavors, my boundaries or my views on certain social policies. These guys all said their rosaries, went to Mass with me and looked great on paper, but they all also expected me to settle down, marry them, and be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen for the rest of my life, literally and figuratively speaking. I spent months warring with myself over my career choice while dating these types of guys. (Incidentally, my family also did not support my career choice. They respect education, but consider anything beyond a bachelor's degree a waste of time, unless it's some sort of professional degree. Academics and researchers are all useless, apparently.)

 

I'm finally in a situation in which someone respects me. He understands all of my weird little idiosyncrasies. I don't have to hide anything from him. When he does come to Mass with me, he actually pays attention to what's going on, and we talk about the sermon and our thoughts after. That's something that none of the Catholics ever did. I feel like this "agnostic heathen" is getting the picture of what Jesus taught and stood for a million times more than a lot of very religious people that I know- and he doesn't have to be living in fear of the fires of Hell to follow those teachings. He's got an innate sense of right and wrong and justice and mercy that I find absolutely beautiful.

 

I know there aren't any guarantees in relationships, but I want what my grandparents had. They got married at 19 and spent 55 amazing years together, with my grandfather nursing my grandma through the horrors of late-onset ALS for their last four years together until she finally succumbed to it. And as she lay drawing her last breath, he was still able to look at her and say, without hesitation, that she was more beautiful to him than the day they wed. That's the kind of commitment everyone longs for. That's what marriage should be.

 

Now, my grandparents were both Catholic. They definitely shared their faith- and everything else. But I'm not sure if their devotion to one another came because of or in spite of the fact they shared that faith. Maybe this guy could never love me like Grandpa loved Grandma (my parents and brother seem to think that he couldn’t, simply by virtue of not being a person of faith)- but we've only been together for 5 months. No one can say that yet. That's a blink of an eye compared to 55+ years. I guess I want to stick with him long enough to try to find out. Frankly, if he's been willing to put up with my mother thus far, I feel like he's worth hanging on to just for that.

 

At any rate (and I apologize that this jumps around like it does… I’ve read so much and so many opinions- I’d like to address them all but I don’t think I can….) I’m not looking for verification from God that this is or isn’t right. No one knows the mind of God. It isn’t God giving me grief about this- it’s my family.

 

 

 

I don’t like feeling guilty for loving someone. I didn’t pick him. We just fell together in an odd way and I went into it mentally kicking and screaming, knowing full well that something like the situation I am currently in would occur eventually. I wasn’t prepared for just how painful it was going to be. When my mom looks at me tearfully and pleads with me to consider her and dad’s feelings, and tells me how tortured she’s going to be if I don’t come to my senses on this, it makes me want to crawl in a little hole.

 

I’m thanking the powers that be that the person I fell in love with is indeed a “he” and not a “she”.

 

Bottom line, I’m generally getting that there’s no clear-cut answer to this. I’ve been advised to see a counselor about this, considering how much it’s been bothering me. Perhaps I’ll do just that.

 

It would all be easier if I could simply decide to not give a flying fudgesicle about my family.

[TaraMaiden]

Oh well... in you, I see a whole lot of me... My mother, who loved, and ultimately nursed my father until the day he died, was married to him for 57 years.

She's a good Catholic woman, goes to Mass every sunday and celebrates her belief in god - and was the one to introduce me definitively to Buddhism.

My entire Italian Catholic family has been loving, kind, supportive and understanding of my switching paths, and nobody has criticised me condemned me or sought to change my mind.

That, to me, is true acceptance and love.

When my parents celebrated their 50th Anniversary by having a special Mass, i gave a reading from a Buddhist text - in a packed church - and the priest burst into applause when i had finished reading.

He was so joyful at the coming together of different faiths....

 

Honey, i'm sorry, but i think your family is so wrong to be so adamant and vehemently opposed to this.

you must follow your heart and know that your happiness lies not in what they might wish to dictate - nor in what texts and testaments might seem to ordain....

Remember that while the Bible contains much wisdom and beauty, it was ultimately scribed, down through the ages, by men.

the catholic church is entirely run and organised - by men. And throughout the centuries, men have dictated and organised, through dogma and afterthought, the organisation of a church that still seeks to subjugate women, and relegate them to a lesser role.

my mother as a good thoughtful and devoted catholic woman - is positively incensed by this, and the church's inflexible attitude to many other matters too.

I have 3 members of my family who are homosexual (it's a big family) - and the churches they attend know this - and nobody - but nobody has ostracised them, condemned them, held them to judgement or ridicule, or attempted to 'change their ways'.

 

When i was a school governor, i was also invited to work within an organisation (Affiliated to the RC church) which dealt with relationships and marriage counselling.

I was with them for 4 years, and undertook extensive training to become a counsellor.

I was almost there when a family move to France, prevented me from taking the final module of the course....

however, i initially assisted in, then went on to single-handedly organise weekend workshops for couples wishing to marry in church.

this was compulsory, and not all partners were Catholic but were marrying in a RC church, and the church dictated that they should participate, as a condition of being able to marry in a sacred and hallowed environment.

it was wonderful, popular and enabled a lot of couples to begin their marriages on the right footing.

Many protested, on arriving, at having to participate - some had been together for YEARS - some even already had families! - but all were so glad, upon departure, that they had taken part.... some couples even opted for additional pre- AND post-wedding counselling, recognising potential bear-traps....

 

My point in telling you all this, is that, after 100 posts, you can PM me if you want, and as your relationship flourishes, i could, should you so wish, offer support and clarification upon any hurdles you might face, and help you both overcome them in order to make your relationship more likely to endure.....

 

and here's me, a practising Buddhist.....!

 

Be strong.

Follow your heart - it's not the things you do, that you end up regretting.

It's the open opportunities you miss, that you kick yourself for.....

[Diamonds&Rust]

At my heart, I don't honestly think I'm even Catholic anymore. Not in the traditional sense. I've been irritated for years by the inability to accept homosexuality. I'm also irritated and disturbed by the teachings on sex, marriage, and family.

Yeah, those are hard ones. In a lot of ways, a pyramidal model of Catholicism with its base at the parish that tells you how to vote and its apex on a gilded throne in Rome is morally indefensible.

 

I was wondering, before we started talking about animal yokes for some reason, did you read the Catechism reference I posted? I always remember what verse it is because it's 1776, so it's like the year we declared independence from the British Monarchy. In a way, it's a declaration of independence from the pyramidal and political church-model that seems to have fallen away from many idiosyncratic understandings of Christ-like morality.

 

Judicious reflection on conscience as the "aboriginal vicar of Christ" could enable your parents to come to supoprt your decision, even if you have chosen not to cleanse the Catholic Church of its many inequities.

 

I also happen to love the Eucharist.

You're adorable!

I feel like this "agnostic heathen" is getting the picture of what Jesus taught and stood for a million times more than a lot of very religious people that I know- and he doesn't have to be living in fear of the fires of Hell to follow those teachings. He's got an innate sense of right and wrong and justice and mercy that I find absolutely beautiful.

It kinda sounds like you should marry him. I'm so sorry this is such a huge stress-mess.

[Eve]

OP, what does your Dad think?

 

My Hubby doesn't like either choice of my childrens partners very much. No one bats an eyelid, it's like some strange rite of passage which the partners kind of accept.

 

I would just concentrate on the practical aspects of your relationship with your mum for the time being. Her main concern is that she probably thinks you are going to end up with poorly behaved children right now and is doing what most mums do.. saying precisely what she thinks. Often, we mums get badly slated for this.

 

Present how happy you are and have confidence in this but at the same time listen to what others see as well. Learn to challenge your mum. My girls know that they have to challenge me as I will not simply accept what they say, I test them out somewhat to see how what they are saying holds together.

 

So, it could be that no one else need get involved in this and that this could be transition you and you mum must go through, in terms of how you communicate.

 

Even if she seems far from accepting things, let her know you are ok, mature enough to manage your own life and that you are reflective enough to consider things from many different perspectives.

 

Conselling sounds like a good idea.

 

All the best with things,

Take care,

Eve x

Edited March 13, 2012 by Eve

[KathyM]

The counseling idea sounds like a good plan. Since this is a religious issue, maybe that counseling should come from your priest. You may even want to seek out the opinions of other practicing Catholics from your church that have made the decision to marry and have a family with an unbeliever, and find out the challenges they faced in doing that and how they dealt with those challenges. Your priest would be a good source to go to with this. Random people of random faiths on a Loveshack message board is not a good way to get wise counsel about something as important as this issue when you are grappling with something as serious as marriage and faith.

[TaraMaiden]

a priest is not a counsellor, a priest is a priest, and as a priest has also taken a vow of celibacy, relationship and familial issues are probably better dealt with by a seasoned and professional counsellor, who is trained in such matters.

A priest will only tell you to look to your faith, which is good. It's just that sometimes, it's not enough.

 

And i didn't say that.

My Catholic priest did, to a fellow parishioner, looking for advice on.... marrying a non-catholic.

 

I think it's one of the wisest things i've ever heard.

[zengirl]

I do not think there's any harm in discussing this with a priest, if the OP has one she feels comfortable speaking with, but a priest is not a substitute for a counselor. Really, the OP could do both---speak with the priest and with a licensed, trained counselor---and both may be beneficial in different ways.

 

It sounds to me like this is really less of a religious issue for the OP and more of a familial one, so a trained counselor who has a background in such things might be more beneficial.

 

I can see seeking religious counseling if you are unsure of your spiritual path. However, as the OP's goal seems to be less in reconciling whether a Catholic and an Agnostic should be together and more about reconciling how she can remain with a man she loves without her heart being torn apart by her family's religious disapproval, more religious disapproval would not help, so a priest would only be helpful if he could be open-minded and understanding of the OP's goals (some will, some won't).

[KathyM]

Religious leaders are often trained in counseling so that they will be able to serve their congregation and counsel them in times of trouble, times of confusion, when people face life issues or major decisions. In many cases, training in counseling is required in order to become a church leader. Sometimes, a clergy member will refer people to an affiliated Christian counselor to help them to resolve any issues or dilemas they are having. Since the issue that the OP has presented relates to inter-faith marriages and how to handle the issues involved with that, it would make sense to consult with the priest about this.

[aj22one]

Religious leaders are often trained in counseling so that they will be able to serve their congregation and counsel them in times of trouble, times of confusion, when people face life issues or major decisions. In many cases, training in counseling is required in order to become a church leader. Sometimes, a clergy member will refer people to an affiliated Christian counselor to help them to resolve any issues or dilemas they are having. Since the issue that the OP has presented relates to inter-faith marriages and how to handle the issues involved with that, it would make sense to consult with the priest about this.

 

I think the issue is more about getting her family to respect her bf and her choices. That might be able to be done by a priest, might not.

 

Her bf seems ok with Catholicism, he just doesn't believe in it. That's about as good as its going to get.

[zengirl]

Religious leaders are often trained in counseling so that they will be able to serve their congregation and counsel them in times of trouble, times of confusion, when people face life issues or major decisions. In many cases, training in counseling is required in order to become a church leader. Sometimes, a clergy member will refer people to an affiliated Christian counselor to help them to resolve any issues or dilemas they are having. Since the issue that the OP has presented relates to inter-faith marriages and how to handle the issues involved with that, it would make sense to consult with the priest about this.

 

Are you Catholic? I know for sure it is not typically required of Catholic priests (we have several priests in my family FWIW -- big, Italian family on one side, and it's typical for one son of each generation to become a priest). Perhaps it would be in some ministries, but Catholic priests do not -- in order to join the priesthood -- undergo such training. Which is not to say there isn't one that has it, but it is relatively unlikely that the OP has one in her immediate area.

[KathyM]

I think the issue is more about getting her family to respect her bf and her choices. That might be able to be done by a priest, might not.

 

Her bf seems ok with Catholicism, he just doesn't believe in it. That's about as good as its going to get.

A priest is trained in handling relationship and family issues, and helping people to live with and get along harmoniously with family members and others. It's also someone the parents would respect, so he would probably be the best choice to consult with. Also, as Christians we are supposed to seek wise counsel from our brothers and sisters in Christ when facing major life decisions or dilemas, not some random secular counselor.

[aj22one]

A priest is trained in handling relationship and family issues, and helping people to live with and get along harmoniously with family members and others. It's also someone the parents would respect, so he would probably be the best choice to consult with. Also, as Christians we are supposed to seek wise counsel from our brothers and sisters in Christ when facing major life decisions or dilemas, not some random secular counselor.

 

How do you know the counselor isn't a Catholic (or other kind of Christian)? The choices here aren't mutually exclusive.

[FredRutherford]

At any rate (and I apologize that this jumps around like it does… I’ve read so much and so many opinions- I’d like to address them all but I don’t think I can….) I’m not looking for verification from God that this is or isn’t right. No one knows the mind of God. It isn’t God giving me grief about this- it’s my family.

This is the real problem, your family, as others have posted.

 

Wow- what an amazing conversation.

 

I honestly appreciate all of the opinions expressed. I'm surprised by how many of you are Catholic or who have been Catholic. I don’t know why- I just am.

 

......

 

I'm finally in a situation in which someone respects me. He understands all of my weird little idiosyncrasies. I don't have to hide anything from him. When he does come to Mass with me, he actually pays attention to what's going on, and we talk about the sermon and our thoughts after. That's something that none of the Catholics ever did.

 

I feel like this "agnostic heathen" is getting the picture of what Jesus taught and stood for a million times more than a lot of very religious people that I know- and he doesn't have to be living in fear of the fires of Hell to follow those teachings. He's got an innate sense of right and wrong and justice and mercy that I find absolutely beautiful.

 

At any rate (and I apologize that this jumps around like it does… I’ve read so much and so many opinions- I’d like to address them all but I don’t think I can….) I’m not looking for verification from God that this is or isn’t right. No one knows the mind of God. It isn’t God giving me grief about this- it’s my family.

 

.

As you posted about marrying a non-believer, you may want to look at this forum on "unequally yoked" marriages or relationships.

Unequally Yoked - Christian Forums

 

I participate in that board's other areas but not that one as I didn't marry a nonbeliever.

 

However, my wife used to be Catholic. While I was a Christian then, wasn't a Catholic and wasn't always so strong and while we were dating, I had no problem attending her services, even after a night of lovemaking...

Yes, we felt regret about that.

Got married in her church, which made our love blessed. We attend another denomination now.

 

From what I've read, marrying a non-believer has its challenges, which you need to be aware of, if your faith is important to you.

However, many couples overcome that as long as the non-believer isn't a VOCAL atheist, always knocking the other's beliefs.

 

Know of couples where one isn't a believer or is a former believer, so it sometimes works.

 

Have some friends like that.

He doesn't go to church with her but isn't disrepectful of her views. And she doesn't demand he embrace her views and move away from his agnosticism.

Believe he is a former Catholic while she is protestant.

Both knew that about each other going in, so neither should expect to change the other.

 

One other thing, it sounds like you have some issues with your childhood faith.

If you consider yourself a Christian, I'd seriously recommend looking into other denominations or community churches, the smaller ones. You may find a church more to your liking.

Edited March 13, 2012 by FredRutherford

[KathyM]

Are you Catholic? I know for sure it is not typically required of Catholic priests (we have several priests in my family FWIW -- big, Italian family on one side, and it's typical for one son of each generation to become a priest). Perhaps it would be in some ministries, but Catholic priests do not -- in order to join the priesthood -- undergo such training. Which is not to say there isn't one that has it, but it is relatively unlikely that the OP has one in her immediate area.

Priests provide premarital counseling. A lot of them do receive training in counseling as part of their training to becoming a priest. Some take courses in counseling and specialize in counseling. My older sister married a Catholic man (she is Lutheran) and received counseling from the Catholic church before marriage, and had to agree to raise their children as Catholic. Most religious leaders do provide counseling to their flock. That is one of their main duties. It's not just to preach on Sundays. Sometimes, they refer their congregation members to Christian counselors affiliated with the church.

[KathyM]

How do you know the counselor isn't a Catholic (or other kind of Christian)? The choices here aren't mutually exclusive.

Normally, people don't know what faith, if any, a counselor has that is not affiliated with or referred by a church. Counselors who work with the general public normally don't divulge their own religious affiliation, since they have to be able to work with people of different faiths on non-religious issues. Counselors are, in fact, supposed to instruct their clients to seek counsel from their religious leaders if it is a matter involving their faith.

[zengirl]

Priests provide premarital counseling. A lot of them do receive training in counseling as part of their training to becoming a priest. Some take courses in counseling and specialize in counseling. My older sister married a Catholic man (she is Lutheran) and received counseling from the Catholic church before marriage, and had to agree to raise their children as Catholic. Most religious leaders do provide counseling to their flock. That is one of their main duties. It's not just to preach on Sundays. Sometimes, they refer their congregation members to Christian counselors affiliated with the church.

 

Priests provide RELIGIOUS pre-marital counseling oftentimes, yes, but their training is nothing like the training of a professional, license counselor, nor should their advice be a substitute for that (or a doctor or a lawyer or any other trained professional of another profession). Priests do many things for their communities, yes, including outreach. In fact, I think before therapy existed, churches were used therapeutically for hundreds of years (many people feel Catholic confession is particularly therapeutic for them, for instance). But to varying success, which is why actual therapists provide an important perspective and service as well.

 

Various monks (I'm Buddhist) have helped me with many issues in my life, but their specific training is not that of a counselor, nor would I see them for issues that I felt might be helped by a counselor in lieu of someone fully trained. As I said, the OP could feel free to also talk to a priest for the perspective, but I wouldn't rule out actual counseling since her main issues are not religious, but rather familial.

 

You seem rather closed-minded about her speaking to anyone other than a priest. I'm saying she has many options, and she might want to consider an array of them. This problem just doesn't seem to be religious (she's fine with her BF's religion, and he's fine with hers, and they both seem very respectful of each others' beliefs), but rather familial. It would potentially be helpful if she found a priest who could console her mother and help her be happy for her daughter, but it would be a hindrance if the OP were further hounded by her family because her priest added to their disapproval. So, it could go either way.

[TaraMaiden]

Priests provide premarital counseling. A lot of them do receive training in counseling as part of their training to becoming a priest. Some take courses in counseling and specialize in counseling. My older sister married a Catholic man (she is Lutheran) and received counseling from the Catholic church before marriage, and had to agree to raise their children as Catholic. Most religious leaders do provide counseling to their flock. That is one of their main duties. It's not just to preach on Sundays. Sometimes, they refer their congregation members to Christian counselors affiliated with the church.

 

bolded part,absolutely true, and i find this outrageous.

you wouldn't register a child as affiliated with any particular political party, so why compel someone to baptise them into a faith that statistically, they either will not adhere to, or will actually deliberately move away from?

 

Before anyone jumps down my throat, i DID have my children christened into the catholic faith.

At the time, i did it because it was expected of me - but neither daughter is at all religious, my grandson has not been christened, and thank goodness for that.

my daughter is far more clear-headed than I was!