How cruel was your fWS during the affair?

[freestyle]

And might I add, that guilt manifests itself into anger. Once the anger has manifested itself he then forces that anger outwardly, onto the bw, his family, etc. Thus feeling free of guilt and justifying his actions. But par for the course the guilt returns and the cycle repeats itself.

 

I mean, it is after all their {bw, family, etc} fault anyway.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't PTSD also an issue with your h? Devastating what that can do to the human mind.

 

btw, thank you for the sacrifices your family has made for the service of your h.

 

 

Good point.

 

Guilt can be a healthy thing---when it reminds us to be mindful of how we're treating others, and conducting ourselves.

 

But disowned guilt--projected onto an innocent party---can be incredibly toxic. And it does set up a vicious cycle.

 

Person A does XYZ that harms Person B.

 

Person A then feels guilt.He/she doesn't like it.It threatens their very sense of self. ("but I'm a good person,really!!")

 

Person A then projects his actions onto person B.

 

By villifying Person B, Person A's actions are somehow justified, rationalized.

(in his/her own mind, anyways)

 

When Person A realizes what they've done--they feel even more shame/guilt.

 

So Person A projects their guilt onto Person B, once again.

 

Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

[Spark1111]

Good point.

 

Guilt can be a healthy thing---when it reminds us to be mindful of how we're treating others, and conducting ourselves.

 

But disowned guilt--projected onto an innocent party---can be incredibly toxic. And it does set up a vicious cycle.

 

Person A does XYZ that harms Person B.

 

Person A then feels guilt.He/she doesn't like it.It threatens their very sense of self. ("but I'm a good person,really!!")

 

Person A then projects his actions onto person B.

 

By villifying Person B, Person A's actions are somehow justified, rationalized.

(in his/her own mind, anyways)

 

When Person A realizes what they've done--they feel even more shame/guilt.

 

So Person A projects their guilt onto Person B, once again.

 

Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

 

So true!

 

So let's not forget Person C. She is attracted and empathetic and so wants to believe it is true what he says about the spouse, so, so wants to believe it.

 

Even if he doesn't say it, his actions IMPLY it, and she NEEDS to ASSUME it is true.

 

She may even help FUEL it, intentionally or not, with her own justifications.

[Spark1111]

And might I add, that guilt manifests itself into anger. Once the anger has manifested itself he then forces that anger outwardly, onto the bw, his family, etc. Thus feeling free of guilt and justifying his actions. But par for the course the guilt returns and the cycle repeats itself.

 

I mean, it is after all their {bw, family, etc} fault anyway.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't PTSD also an issue with your h? Devastating what that can do to the human mind.

 

btw, thank you for the sacrifices your family has made for the service of your h.

 

Thank you! No, PTSD was not our issue. Depression and a full-blown mid-life crises was; feeling less than and inadequate after years of joblessness and back pain, the surgery, then addiction to pain meds.

 

How wonderful it must have been to be able to portray yourself as an up and coming, successful person who had overcome all of it by YOURSELF to adoring new eyes who had not one whit of a clue about your spouse, friends, family?

 

It worked. He could be whatever he wanted to be with her.

[freestyle]

So true!

 

So let's not forget Person C. She is attracted and empathetic and so wants to believe it is true what he says about the spouse, so, so wants to believe it.

 

Even if he doesn't say it, his actions IMPLY it, and she NEEDS to ASSUME it is true.

 

She may even help FUEL it, intentionally or not, with her own justifications.

 

Yep---once you add that third "letter"---you can end up with a very toxic alphabet soup.

 

And sometimes the respective dysfunctions dovetail to create the Karpman Drama Triangle--Victim, Persecutor, & Rescuer..........

 

Once you understand the dynamics on a theoretical level---and step back---you can actually see it happening in real life.

[donnamaybe]

So true!

 

So let's not forget Person C. She is attracted and empathetic and so wants to believe it is true what he says about the spouse, so, so wants to believe it.

 

Even if he doesn't say it, his actions IMPLY it, and she NEEDS to ASSUME it is true.

 

She may even help FUEL it, intentionally or not, with her own justifications.

AND her own behavior! I mean, I'm all about sexy time with my man, but life is SO not a Harlequin romance novel where women live only to primp and prepare for a man to bed them. I see so many focusing SO HARD on the sexual aspect of things. I've seen avatars ALWAYS depicting some beautiful, highly sexualized woman in some cases, even for somebody who is anything but IRL if pictures are any indication. Well, I guess for the "beautiful" part they would be. So here you have a woman whose main goal is to provide this "fantasy getaway" for a cheater. No wonder the BS pales in comparison during the A - until D Day when the hard, cold light of day hits the A and it all comes crashing down. Then the "boring old wife" is lookin' pretty damn good all of a sudden.

[Spark1111]

AND her own behavior! I mean, I'm all about sexy time with my man, but life is SO not a Harlequin romance novel where women live only to primp and prepare for a man to bed them. I see so many focusing SO HARD on the sexual aspect of things. I've seen avatars ALWAYS depicting some beautiful, highly sexualized woman in some cases, even for somebody who is anything but IRL if pictures are any indication. Well, I guess for the "beautiful" part they would be. So here you have a woman whose main goal is to provide this "fantasy getaway" for a cheater. No wonder the BS pales in comparison during the A - until D Day when the hard, cold light of day hits the A and it all comes crashing down. Then the "boring old wife" is lookin' pretty damn good all of a sudden.

 

hahahaha, yes!

 

A dear friend of mine's H had an affair with a single mom whose two kids spent every other weekend with their dad, as did my H....she and I looked at each other and burst out laughing. Why?

 

I'm married and hadn't had a weekend without kids for as long as I could remember.

 

We concluded that if WE could have shipped our kids elsewhere and had the house to ourselves (heaven!) we too would have been running around naked with heels on!

[donnamaybe]

We concluded that if WE could have shipped our kids elsewhere and had the house to ourselves (heaven!) we too would have been running around naked with heels on!

Ha! Now THAT was quite a picture you just painted for me!

[DonVee]

Unfortunately my marriage to my ex husband didn't I lost all trust and respect for him the affair completely ruined my whole outlook on him and our marriage. He was a cruel SOB during the affair he was distant and cold every thing I did upset him and noting was good enough. He lied about everything and spent countless hours away from home blaming my attitude, I was complete confused because not only was I walking on egg shells I watched my words and my actions just to keep peace so I knew my attitude was not the real reason. I give you props for being able to move forward because no matter how hard I tried I wasn't strong enough to even try to word on mending our broken marriage. Once I learned of the affair I was completely disgusted with him and I lost all respect for him just the thought of how he would make me feel crazy and reverse everything back on me made me want to put a 9mm to his head and do me and the rest of the world a favor by removing him and his already rotten decaying heart from this world... That's when I knew I had to leave him just the thought of the man that vowed to love, honor and cherish me would would put our marriage through hot water just to get his wanker wet... I'm sorry bitterness and all I could NEVER forgive him and not because he cheated but because of how he disrespected me our marriage and our kids.

[freestyle]

Then you have your run of the mill pathological liars who have mommy issues which translate into disrespect, resentment and sometimes hate for all women when the real stuff starts kicking in. These men aren't fixable and any woman would do well to stay far away but the kicker is they are very good at being liars and cons. You won't know who they really are for a long time.

 

because they're VERY good at putting on the "Who, ME? I-wouldn't-hurt-a-fly-Mr.-Nice-Guy-People-Pleaser-MASK.

 

(just a moment, I need to take a breath after all that )

 

When the mask slips--and the covert-aggression is no longer covert.....WE get labeled as "the enemy" simply for having seen their true face.

 

(yep, I've dated a few of those.....*shudder*)

 

(I even know a couple of women like that, it's not gender specific)

 

 

The sad & infuriating aspect of that is---by the time we figure it out---we've already invested a lot of our emotional currency. Unlike regular currency--it's not always easy to obtain more if we run out.........

[Spark1111]

Then you have your run of the mill pathological liars who have mommy issues which translate into disrespect, resentment and sometimes hate for all women when the real stuff starts kicking in. These men aren't fixable and any woman would do well to stay far away but the kicker is they are very good at being liars and cons. You won't know who they really are for a long time.

 

Hey, good point! A lot of Daddy haters too....or a daddy who was absent, negligent, abandoning.

 

Both groups have so many issues because that primary relationship in childhood gets re enacted over and over and over again.

 

Those who do not study history ARE doomed to repeat in.

[Spark1111]

Ha! Now THAT was quite a picture you just painted for me!

 

Hahaha, just re-read my post.

 

The point: Both she and I as full-time mommies and wives NEVER had the luxury of being alone to be able to run naked in high heels with our spouse's, who lost their minds, chucked responsibility, and found it elsewhere with their OW every other weekend thanks to the custody agreements enforced by the divorce courts.

 

But we always wished we had the opportunity to do so with our men.

[Spark1111]

I love, love your reply because it so right on!

 

Sometimes I'm still blown away by how badly I was fooled by, hope you don't mind me quoting you, "Who, ME? I-wouldn't-hurt-a-fly-Mr.-Nice-Guy-People-Pleaser-MASK." Until him, I didn't not realize that people were even capable of keeping such evil hidden under such a deceitful mask. The lengths he went to hide the evil underneath are truly mind blowing.

 

I mean this with all sincerity, after his wife got over the shock of the truth, I hope she saw though that fake nice guy exterior and I hope she realizes that he has never been what he claimed and I hope she found the strength to let him go, because she truly does deserve better for herself.

 

A lot of these types are great at reading people and mirroring back exactly what they have intuited they need.

 

They do where masks to get what they want. This too is learned at a very early age and it works well for them.

 

She has two options: He changes or she accepts exactly who he is, to stay married to him....or walks away.

[freestyle]

I love, love your reply because it so right on!

 

Sometimes I'm still blown away by how badly I was fooled by, hope you don't mind me quoting you, "Who, ME? I-wouldn't-hurt-a-fly-Mr.-Nice-Guy-People-Pleaser-MASK." Until him, I didn't not realize that people were even capable of keeping such evil hidden under such a deceitful mask. The lengths he went to hide the evil underneath are truly mind blowing.

 

I mean this with all sincerity, after his wife got over the shock of the truth, I hope she saw though that fake nice guy exterior and I hope she realizes that he has never been what he claimed and I hope she found the strength to let him go, because she truly does deserve better for herself.

 

 

(quote away, I'm flattered...)

 

 

I'm SOOO sorry you had to deal with one of those truly slippery types.

 

Witnessing someone being that two-faced, & fake, and having zero regard for how it might affect others, is disturbing, to say the least.

 

It can shake the very foundations of our worldview.

[mercy]

Thank you! No, PTSD was not our issue. Depression and a full-blown mid-life crises was; feeling less than and inadequate after years of joblessness and back pain, the surgery, then addiction to pain meds.

 

How wonderful it must have been to be able to portray yourself as an up and coming, successful person who had overcome all of it by YOURSELF to adoring new eyes who had not one whit of a clue about your spouse, friends, family?

 

It worked. He could be whatever he wanted to be with her.

 

Sorry, new here. Seems I am getting my 'S's' confused for the second time today.

 

It's a little early to blame green beer isn't it?

 

And 'adoring eyes' doesn't live the day to day like washing his undies. aaah, to lay eyes on mr. perfect.

[NoIDidn't]

Spark,

 

I remember the incident that led me to look for why my husband was behaving the way he was. He was leaving the house for a rehearsal with his band and seemed like he couldn't wait to leave the house. I asked him if everything was okay and he turned and gave me a look that I had never seen before. It was dark and foreboding. It was really disturbing. And on top of that he was short and rude in his answers when I asked questions.

 

I have to assume that he was rushing to call her before he got to his rehearsal and I was interrupting those pleasant thoughts.

 

It was as if he had become another person right before me. But I wouldn't call his behavior cruel. It was certainly curt and at times disrespectful, but not cruel. If he had been cruel, we'd be divorced.