She cant explain why she wants to divorce

[petterr]

A bit philosophical today!

 

You always hear that life is a journey. It truly is. The cool and at the same time frightening thing about it it that somewhere along the way you think you have reached your final destination. You stop seaching and start to feel confortable with the way it is. That this is it.

 

Then something snaps you out of it and you are reminded of the fact that your still on that journey.

 

I have been here before. Think it was twelve years ago.

 

Well guess what! Im on my way again and it feels kind of good!

[Owl]

Life is a journey, and it's one with no final destination that you get to stop and enjoy (as far as we know, anyway). That means you need to make this journey the best possible one that you can make it be.

 

Enjoy the roses, stop at the park and throw a line in the water and fish for a bit, chase your kid around the yard with a garden hose, and jump out of that airplane with a parachute just to know that you can.

 

Anything less is a waste of the gift we were given.

[elfman]

More importantly, Life is IN the journey, not at the destination. What I mean is that it's the little things that make life enjoyable and adventurous, not the big picture. Sometimes our long term plans have a way of deviating our attention from the little things, and we miss out on so much.

 

E.

[2sunny]

Since you stated she was staying "with a friend" every other weekend a while back - do you know the friend? Did you ever verify exactly where she was? Was it the weekends she had the kids or not?

[petterr]

I know the friend. A girl from work. During the three months she stayed with her four weekends and otherwise she stayed with her mother or sister. Its all true. She did stay with this friend. Her sister confirms it. I believe her.

 

She told me in her letter that when she had made her decision there was no turning back and as it turned out nothing to talk about. She needed space and escaped.

 

She didnt care about how I felt then and now. Why would she? Its all about her.

[K Os]

Hi peterr, I've just had a marathon read through your whole thread. You seem to have come a long way in a month - good for you. I hope my own trajectory picks up speed soon in a similar way. Your story has a lot of parallels with mine: a sudden deep shift in my wife's behaviour and attitudes, the likely mental health angle, no direct evidence of an affair being the primary cause, and also the freedom created by an improvement in her circumstances that I have helped her to reach. In my wife's case, this has been a well-paid job (which she only found 2 years ago) and passing her driving test and getting her own car (ditto 2 years ago). Until this point (for the earlier 14 years of our relationship) she was far more dependent on me, e.g. me doing all the driving and car maintenance, me helping her with job applications, even helping her with her MA thesis so she could get better work for the good of the family. Now, for the first time, she is earning more than me and is fully mobile. Time to ditch the husband and spend all the money on herself! Good plan!

 

Btw, I admire and applaud your evidence-based approach to a possible affair. I share your views on this. Whether it's there or not, if you don't have any direct evidence then why get all crazy about it? And snooping for direct evidence can be so crazymaking that it erodes your self worth. My own stance is that by marrying my wife I didn't intend to crush her liberty to live her life as she decides to. But if she decides to treat me like a total bitch then I reserve the right to cut her off at the knees. Affair or no affair.

 

When you're going through hell, keep going

[petterr]

Thanks K O!

 

Sounds like we hooked up with the same wife!

 

I also helpt wife with license and listen to this... Bought a car for her in her name 15.000 only a month before bomb. Hahaha! Dont call me stupid!

 

She promised to bay it back but in the end she borrowed the money so that she could get an apartment. If she hadnt she would have still been here and frankly it would have torn me apart. I see it as an investment for the kids. At least I know they now have a nice place to live in when its her weeks.

 

Going through the room of a 1000- demons. Demons are only feelings and cant really hurt you. Half way through to the other door.

[petterr]

Theres a different perspective I woul like to get your views on.

 

When a young adult reaches a certain age he or she feels the need to move out of the parents home and try their wings on their own. There are alot of similarities here.

 

Say you marry a person who hasnt really grown into an adult yet. Even if that person is say 30- ish the person still to some extent have an inner child that hasnt really had the opportunity to grow.

 

The spouse without knowing anything about these issues takes the part of parent in some way. Not intentionally but for love. You help the ones you

Love right!

 

But when the spouse reaches a certain point in the relationship he or she starts feeling theres something wrong. The adult within wants to come out. The other spouse understands nothing and gets all the blame for something he or she has done and been like all the time. For this person nothing has changed.

 

The new adult sees no other way but to move out. Move out from husband/wife/parent in order to continue growing into the adult that it needs to be.

 

Does make some lodgic right?

[K Os]

Yes. There's a lot to what you say here, and it's occurred to me too. Including the moody/confused/hysterical/tantrum-type behaviour being reminiscent of 'teenage' traits. Look up 'hostile dependency' - it's interesting material. But even without the hostility, yes, I think this is a valid pattern of 'supportive' and 'rebellious' behaviours that can play out in couples relationships, and that do have echoes in the parent and child roles. Ask my therapist...

 

Take a starving dog and make him prosperous and he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between dogs and women. Mark Twain

Edited April 14, 2012 by K Os

[petterr]

Need some advice here!

 

NC a week now! Feeling better!

 

Ex wants us to throw a party for our daughter and invite 18 of her kindergarden friends. I said yes before but after her letter I really dont feel like it anymore. Its not until the end of May so with NC i still have time to think about it. I know we would throw a kick ass party like we have done so many times for our son.

 

The good: My daughter would have the time of her life with her friends and both her parents on her special day. I know I would be on my best behavior for my daughters sake. Ex would see me as me nothing more nothing less.

 

The bad: It would take a huge effort because right now I cant stand her!

 

Thoughts!

[Jstub]

Need some advice here!

 

NC a week now! Feeling better!

 

Ex wants us to throw a party for our daughter and invite 18 of her kindergarden friends. I said yes before but after her letter I really dont feel like it anymore. Its not until the end of May so with NC i still have time to think about it. I know we would throw a kick ass party like we have done so many times for our son.

 

The good: My daughter would have the time of her life with her friends and both her parents on her special day. I know I would be on my best behavior for my daughters sake. Ex would see me as me nothing more nothing less.

 

The bad: It would take a huge effort because right now I cant stand her!

 

Thoughts!

 

You pretty much answered it yourself. Put your daughter first.

 

As for not being able to stand her, I feel you - However, put your daughter first - be civil to your stbxw and move on.

[jwi71]

I agree. Accept the invite and go.

Your little girl will have a great time.

 

Be cordial to your xW. Thank her at some point for the part (you'd thank a stranger right? So it's ok to thank her for the party). I'd offer to pay half. The party benefits your daughter and as such, IMO, you have a responsibility to cover half.

 

These small steps can, hopefully, lay the foundation of positive interactions with your xW. It's in your D's best interest (and yours).

 

If she tries to engage you in any manner not related to your D or the party, purely tell her this is your D's day and if she would email you later.

[The Blue Knight]

I know the friend. A girl from work. During the three months she stayed with her four weekends and otherwise she stayed with her mother or sister. Its all true. She did stay with this friend. Her sister confirms it. I believe her.

 

She told me in her letter that when she had made her decision there was no turning back and as it turned out nothing to talk about. She needed space and escaped.

 

She didnt care about how I felt then and now. Why would she? Its all about her.

Chronically selfish people should never get married. But the unfortunate truth is, they do, and far too often. I'm not sure what their end game is. Are they hoping that the marriage will change them for the positive? Or are they just biding their time until the next stage in life comes along? Either way it's a shame people like her even consider marriage. But watch, that won't stop her from doing it all over again with some other poor unsuspecting victim.

 

In the meantime, you'll find someone who will treat you a lot better down the road at some point Pete, and then you'll feel like thanking your ex-wife. That's how I felt when I found my second wife.

[The Blue Knight]

Need some advice here!

 

NC a week now! Feeling better!

 

Ex wants us to throw a party for our daughter and invite 18 of her kindergarden friends. I said yes before but after her letter I really dont feel like it anymore. Its not until the end of May so with NC i still have time to think about it. I know we would throw a kick ass party like we have done so many times for our son.

 

The good: My daughter would have the time of her life with her friends and both her parents on her special day. I know I would be on my best behavior for my daughters sake. Ex would see me as me nothing more nothing less.

 

The bad: It would take a huge effort because right now I cant stand her!

 

Thoughts!

 

ALWAYS put your kids first. Be polite but be there for her. That's what your daughter will remember. Take a lot of photos. They grow up quickly.

[2sunny]

I disagree. My response would be "do whatever you wish, it's your money and I am no longer considering us together."

 

Neutral - but sends her a clear message.

 

She doesn't want you but intends to go forward like everything is just fine? NO, it's not fine and it will never be the same! Start showing her what it will be like = she's on her own... Time to grow up and decide herself. IF you say yes - she will find reasons to blame you for having ANY input!

 

Stay out of it. Have a wonderful intimate birthday celebration all on your own, it will be more special!

[petterr]

Thanks! So torn right now!

 

I do agree with all of you. But right now im leaning towards not going through with it. Sunny your right. She has taken me for granted for almost eleven years and it would be sooo out of character for me to say no. She would like me there because she knows the old me would be great. As for not being there for my daughter. She truly is the only reason I get up in the morning. Would do anything for her. She will not think much about it this year on her fourth birthay.

 

Dont think im ready to swallow everything that has happened during the last five months.

 

But as I said yesterday. Its in a month. I will probably change my mind several times before then. For her sake I should and she only turns four once. So angry at ex right now for even putting me in a situation where I feel like this.

Thanks!

[2sunny]

Your 4 year old won't remember the party in ten years. These parties are a show for parents.

 

No kid that young needs a big party - that's ridiculous.

[Owl]

I agree with 2Sunny. Your 4 year old won't remember this birthday party, nor be angry with you for you giving her a SECOND party of your own, when she's with you.

 

Seems like a "win/win" to me. Tell her that she's fine to setup whatever kind of party she'd like to give your daughter that day...you'll celebrate with your daughter when you have her next.

 

Simple, straightforward, and no animosity involved.

[findingnemo]

Peter,

 

It's normal for D parents to have separate parties for their kid's birthday...especially when they don't get along. I've done it for almost 3 years. Do your own thing. Your daughter will appreciate it and you will be exercising your much needed independence from all the crap.

[The Blue Knight]

Thanks! So torn right now!

 

I do agree with all of you. But right now im leaning towards not going through with it. Sunny your right. She has taken me for granted for almost eleven years and it would be sooo out of character for me to say no. She would like me there because she knows the old me would be great. As for not being there for my daughter. She truly is the only reason I get up in the morning. Would do anything for her. She will not think much about it this year on her fourth birthay.

 

Dont think im ready to swallow everything that has happened during the last five months.

 

But as I said yesterday. Its in a month. I will probably change my mind several times before then. For her sake I should and she only turns four once. So angry at ex right now for even putting me in a situation where I feel like this.

Thanks!

Ultimately, your daughter being four years old won't recall much about this birthday Pete. At the same time, this will just play into whatever evil descriptions your soon to be ex is already putting out there about you. It will play right into her "Pete's Controlling" propaganda. And later on, when she's flashing the photos to your daughter showing an absent father, do you really want that? I'm not sure how many people you invite to these parties, but why play into her propaganda opportunities? Why allow all those showing up at the party to ask "where the heck is Pete?" Until such time as the divorce is final, I'd play it cool. This isn't about the wife and her issues. This is about you and your daughter. By this time next year the divorce will be over and then you can handle it however you like and at that point you can put together a separate party for your daughter.

[jwi71]

I have to disagree with Owl and 2Sunny.

You are going for Your D AND YOU. Enjoy seeing her run and laugh and play.

Revel in her innocence. Simply enjoy watching your D be a kid. It's a memory for you both. Why deny yourself that simply to spite your xW? Sounds stupid to me.

 

Let's face it, you don't go and your D and her mom have a great time while you are left to wonder about it. Why do that to yourself?

 

After all, that little girl there will one day refuse to let you hold her hand while you're "ruining her life" and storm back into her room, slamming the door in dramatic fashion. Ah. Teenagers suck.

 

So go. You're gonna have to play nice at some point might as well start now. Or do you plan on glaring at your xW while sitting clear across the venue when your D plays a soccer game or graduates? Gets married? Gives birth?

 

And on a more practical level, and it's an honest question, how do you have two birthday parties? I mean, this little girl has one kindergarten class. Does each child get two invites and gets to chose which party to attend? Or both?

 

I'd go. I'd offer to pay/contribute. Play nice with the xW. To go simply to "show her" is childish and stupid. It also sets the stage for this type of continued interaction. And it'll suck for your D down the road (and even now I would say).

 

It's the rest of your life, I'd set a collaborative tone. It seems your xW has. She didn't have to invite you (but did). Meet her gestureand go.

 

You guys might hate each other but that doesn't mean you can't be good co-parents. The only win-win is to go, enjoy your D and be cordial to the xW.

 

You'll be glad you did.

[Owl]

What...people are allowed to disagree with me?!??!?!?!?! :D :D

 

I can see valid points either way. In this, eveyone's gotta pick their own path.

[petterr]

It helps to get everyones advice. It really does. Problem is:

 

She didnt invite me. She asked if we should do it thogether at my place. Its bigger.

 

She can ask this and almost expect it because she doesnt understand how much she hurt me. For her its just a divorce.

 

If I dont do it it has nothing to do with ex. It would be because everytime im in contact with her I take two steps back and it takes me weeks to feel good again. Its too soon. It will be completely different in a year.

 

I too want a "good" relationship with ex as she wants with me but there is a huge differense. She needs me to pretend that nothing happened. I need her to " get" what happened.

 

Will never stand on the sidelines in the future. Feels like I sacrificed christmas when wife had D. She has decided everything and I have been stupid enough to play along. THAT has almost broken me. Never again!

 

If I do not participate this once and if NC helps me then its high time to continue my journey on my terms.

 

Havent decided yet. You all have good points!

 

On another note!

 

Her older sister called me today. She said shes stepping back because she knows her sisters really doesnt get her own behavior and talking wouldnt help at all at this point. She told me she also misses her sister. That just goes to show that everybody sees the changes in her. Her sister told me that she really cant understand why ex is mad at me. Shes leaving me not the other way around. She ended the call by saying that she waits until the day her sister truly understands what she has done. Comming from her sister it feels good to know im not alone in seeing her so different from the woman she used to be. Think shes ashamed of her!

[jwi71]

It helps to get everyones advice. It really does. Problem is:

 

She didnt invite me. She asked if we should do it thogether at my place. Its bigger.

 

She can ask this and almost expect it because she doesnt understand how much she hurt me. For her its just a divorce.

 

Or maybe for her it's putting aside whatever feelings she has for you and wants to play nice for your D's sake.

 

Something you refuse to do.

 

From the outside looking in she looks to be handling this very well.

She choose to be inclusive. She didn't HAVE to contact you. But did.

You rebuffed her efforts.

Not looking like father of the year that's for sure.

I bet a judge would see it that way too. She offered and you refused.

 

If I dont do it it has nothing to do with ex. It would be because everytime im in contact with her I take two steps back and it takes me weeks to feel good again. Its too soon. It will be completely different in a year.

 

I understand what you are saying.

You choose yourself over your D.

Not a choice I would make, one I think you will regret, but ok.

 

I too want a "good" relationship with ex as she wants with me but there is a huge differense. She needs me to pretend that nothing happened. I need her to " get" what happened.

 

Exactly. With you there is a big difference.

And the difference is she can put her D first and you cannot.

She doesn't need anything from you - nor is it your place to "teach" her anything.

 

Instead, put that little girl first and ignore any and everything with your xW.

 

 

Will never stand on the sidelines in the future. Feels like I sacrificed christmas when wife had D. She has decided everything and I have been stupid enough to play along. THAT has almost broken me. Never again!

 

Wow. This is exactly what your xW said in that letter. Each claiming the other dominated. The truth....doesn't matter at this point.

 

What matters is getting D and being a phenomal father and co-parent.

 

If I do not participate this once and if NC helps me then its high time to continue my journey on my terms.

 

I get it. I do. Been there myself. Still have to deal with the odd bull**** game from my xW. My advice is to right now make a promise to yourself.

 

Promise yourself you will NEVER let your feelings for your xW affect you as a father. And that's what you are doing HERE and NOW. Your anger and pain towards your xW is driving this decision. Huge mistake.

 

Because this is about YOUR D allow yourself to be guided by your LOVE for her. Do NOT refuse to attend because your xW is there. That makes you a crappy father who let his hate for the xW overrule the love for his D.

 

Put your D first. And you're not.

[Jstub]

Her older sister called me today. She said shes stepping back because she knows her sisters really doesnt get her own behavior and talking wouldnt help at all at this point. She told me she also misses her sister. That just goes to show that everybody sees the changes in her. Her sister told me that she really cant understand why ex is mad at me. Shes leaving me not the other way around. She ended the call by saying that she waits until the day her sister truly understands what she has done. Comming from her sister it feels good to know im not alone in seeing her so different from the woman she used to be. Think shes ashamed of her!

 

I know this feels good, however keep in mind that this could easily mean that her sister playing both sides. Being nice and understanding to both sides. The reason why I say this is because I had the same exact thing happen with my wife and sister in law. My sister in law talked to me extensively, how she doesn't get my wife and she is making a big mistake, that she hopes her sister "will come back". Felt good for me too, until I found out that she went to her sister and said that what she is doing makes complete sense and she should proceed to find out her feelings for OM.

 

Not thread jacking here, I am just trying to shine the light on a possibility. Some people try to please both sides to keep a good relationship and seem nice and understanding.