Worth trying still?

[BrighterWashing]

H and I have been trying to mend things since he told OW he dumped her back in June. I found out about their 6 month affair at Christmas a year ago and he swore he has ended it but just went underground. They were LDR exceptbfor a couple of months leading up to me finding out- there were maybe 4 physical encounters. I found out in April that he was still emailing/texting and he realized he had crossed a line. He went NC with her that day.

 

He confessed everything (physical as well, gave me every memento of the A, control of a secret email I didn't know he had). He's been totally transparent since.

 

She keeps emailing even though after NC for 8 weeks he wrote twice to make it clear it was over. She clearly thinks I'm making him and doesn't believe he means it. It has been very stressful dealing with her emails (including to family members) but it has opened his eyes. I truly believe he is done with her.

 

He says he has had a revelation and begged for a second chance, said his stomach churns at the thought of losing me. And it would hurt the kids horribly, they love us both and I will not wear responsibility for this.

 

There are times when I feel he understands and he's really connecting with me but many times I just feel nothing for him. I feel today like I wish I'd never met him or married him. I could have spent my 20s and 30s with someone who met my needs. Instead I devoted myself to him believing he would always be there for me. He saw that as being taken for granted. He thought helping around the house would make me happy where I wanted loyalty and a protector and instead he brought an outsider into the marriage.

 

I just don't know if I should cut my losses. I hate that I'd never be free of him anyway because of our 3 kids. I Iwon't ever have another relationship, I know that. I have wasted my life loving this man and now I look back and wonder why.

 

We talked last night. We are both sad. He is sad at what he's done to us. I'm sad at the betrayal and lack of connection. He thinks I need to engage him, I think it's his job. He said (in fear I think) that if he'd been honest about what I had to do and give up to be with him we wouldn't have married. And if he'd known I wanted a father protector we wouldn't have married. I doubt that. We were so in love then I think we would have and that he honesty would have meant we signed up with eyes open. Not that it would have solved everything but it would have helped.

 

But I don't know if I can co-exist like this. We are a good parenting team but I hate that we are always at other ends of the house because of the 3 kids at different ages.

 

I know he's trying. I know it's a long road to recovery and it will have bumps. I this a bump or is this it? This isn't about the affair really - though I feel awful and hurt- its about whether there's anything left now. Can we each do what the other needs in a marriage? How do we tell?

 

Any advice? It is now nearly a year since he threw her over properly. For work reasons he had to deal with her work emails until a few months ago. And she keeps emailing just to stay on our heads. I don't know if I am strong enough to get her out of my head and I don't know if I even want him anymore. I would if I thought he could fulfil my emotional needs. How can I find out? How long do I keep putting one foot after another?

[whichwayisup]

If he can, ask for a transfer? Or start lookin for another job. It's going to be really REALLY hard on your trust level with him and working through this if he has to see her every single day at work. Remorseful he is, but fact that they will be in eachothers presence for at least 8 hours a day is not good.

 

If he truly is sorry and ready to do absolutely everything required (and it seems like he is), do marriage counselling with you and on his own (he needs to fix himself so he won't go off and cheat on you again with her or another OW), and if the love is still there, then fight for your marriage. I believe people deserve second chances if they are worthy of that chance! Plus, you two have a history together, children, extended family, in laws - A life built and entwined on so many levels. If he is willing and you are as well, go for it and work hard together to make your marriage good again.

 

Keep ALL those emails and print them out. Show her husband when you two do talk to him. Talking to him together shows a united front and also lets him know that the A is over and now it's up to his wife to get over it and leave you two alone.

[Kidd]

H and I have been trying to mend things since he told OW he dumped her back in June. I found out about their 6 month affair at Christmas a year ago and he swore he has ended it but just went underground. They were LDR exceptbfor a couple of months leading up to me finding out- there were maybe 4 physical encounters. I found out in April that he was still emailing/texting and he realized he had crossed a line. He went NC with her that day.

 

He confessed everything (physical as well, gave me every memento of the A, control of a secret email I didn't know he had). He's been totally transparent since.

 

She keeps emailing even though after NC for 8 weeks he wrote twice to make it clear it was over. She clearly thinks I'm making him and doesn't believe he means it. It has been very stressful dealing with her emails (including to family members) but it has opened his eyes. I truly believe he is done with her.

 

He says he has had a revelation and begged for a second chance, said his stomach churns at the thought of losing me. And it would hurt the kids horribly, they love us both and I will not wear responsibility for this.

 

There are times when I feel he understands and he's really connecting with me but many times I just feel nothing for him. I feel today like I wish I'd never met him or married him. I could have spent my 20s and 30s with someone who met my needs. Instead I devoted myself to him believing he would always be there for me. He saw that as being taken for granted. He thought helping around the house would make me happy where I wanted loyalty and a protector and instead he brought an outsider into the marriage.

 

I just don't know if I should cut my losses. I hate that I'd never be free of him anyway because of our 3 kids. I Iwon't ever have another relationship, I know that. I have wasted my life loving this man and now I look back and wonder why.

 

We talked last night. We are both sad. He is sad at what he's done to us. I'm sad at the betrayal and lack of connection. He thinks I need to engage him, I think it's his job. He said (in fear I think) that if he'd been honest about what I had to do and give up to be with him we wouldn't have married. And if he'd known I wanted a father protector we wouldn't have married. I doubt that. We were so in love then I think we would have and that he honesty would have meant we signed up with eyes open. Not that it would have solved everything but it would have helped.

 

But I don't know if I can co-exist like this. We are a good parenting team but I hate that we are always at other ends of the house because of the 3 kids at different ages.

 

I know he's trying. I know it's a long road to recovery and it will have bumps. I this a bump or is this it? This isn't about the affair really - though I feel awful and hurt- its about whether there's anything left now. Can we each do what the other needs in a marriage? How do we tell?

 

Any advice? It is now nearly a year since he threw her over properly. For work reasons he had to deal with her work emails until a few months ago. And she keeps emailing just to stay on our heads. I don't know if I am strong enough to get her out of my head and I don't know if I even want him anymore. I would if I thought he could fulfil my emotional needs. How can I find out? How long do I keep putting one foot after another?

 

Sadly, if you want to reconcile, it is not going to work if you decide to leave fixing the marriage entirely to him. It's not fair but it is true. There's a lot said here about the WS owns 100% of the affair and 50% of the problems in the marriage. That leaves 50% of the marital problems for us. A wise WS will not expect the BS to do anything about the M until they have fixed the damage caused by their affair. A wise BS will know they must work on both simultaneously.

 

His Needs, Her Needs is a great book on this if you haven't gone there already.

[Spark1111]

You need to inform her H, hand over copies of the emails, and deactivate the account.

 

It is keeping your anger front and center.

 

You are grieving the loss of the marriage you thought you had, and the man you thought loved you and would protect you.

 

That's normal.

 

It's also normal some days to feel nothing, absolutely nothing.

 

But I believe, at this point, you are putting too much head space into the OW, and c'mon, you know she is a needy, unhappy person who just pines for what could have been.

 

Do you love your H? Then that is where all your focus has to go right now if you truly want to attempt a successful renconciliation.

 

Get a sitter, get out, starting having some fun together again. Try to snap out of your depression, or get help if need be, because it takes TWO make a better marriage after infidelity.

 

The average dating couple spends close to 15 hours a week giving each other attention. That;s how an affair starts to. Start doing that with each other.

 

Communicating is good, but you will have to eventually make a decision in your heart whether you want him in your future or not. You need to create a new relationship with each other, a stronger one filled with mutual respect.

 

Can you come to a place of forgiveness? Because, if not, you will only be miserable and so will he. It would be kinder at that point to divorce him.

 

Are you guys in IC, and MC? Few marriages successfully reconcile without the skills and coping tools given by professionals.

[BrighterWashing]

We are in MC. I know he's doing all he can. I believe he truly is committed. I just don't know how to tell if I love him anymore.

[Kidd]

We are in MC. I know he's doing all he can. I believe he truly is committed. I just don't know how to tell if I love him anymore.

 

I think THAT is the toughest part for a truly remorseful WS - the fact that sometimes the BS has to take some time (sometimes a lot of time) to figure out if they can forgive or if this was a dealbreaker after all. If the WS is truly remorseful, they will wait. The tough part for them is that they cannot sit on the fence at all; they have to be all in or we're gone (well, many of us anyway). Nothing says you need to decide today. In fact, some would say that fast is slow and slow is fast. And that it takes 2-5 years to reconcile.

 

Just also keep in mind that not making a decision sometimes makes the decision for you. It takes two to make a successful marriage.

[SandieBeach]

We are in MC. I know he's doing all he can. I believe he truly is committed. I just don't know how to tell if I love him anymore.

 

BrighterWashing, I know how you feel. It's sad when you look at this person, and see a stranger. I often wonder if there is anything that he could do that would make me get over the betrayal.

[Spark1111]

We are in MC. I know he's doing all he can. I believe he truly is committed. I just don't know how to tell if I love him anymore.

 

I think you need IC too. IC is for you to figure out your feelings.

 

I know in my sitch, the affair triggered some painful childhood memories and I had to learn to separate the two incidents so I did not blame my spouse for all that was re-surfacing from my childhood.

 

It wouldn't hurt, and would probably help you to go to IC.

[Prime Vera]

I just don't know if I should cut my losses. I hate that I'd never be free of him anyway because of our 3 kids. I Iwon't ever have another relationship, I know that. I have wasted my life loving this man and now I look back and wonder why.

 

People here can tell you a lot about what you will experience should you decide to stay in your m and try to reconcile.I don't know anything about that, but frankly, it sounds like hell. I can only tell you what my experience was in cutting my losses.

 

D Day for me was not only discovery day, but also decision day. I have never looked back, and never regretted my decision. Yes, because of the kids I am not totally free of my X, but at least I'm free of the lifetime sentence of trying to get over it, of fixing the marriage, of forgiving him, of checking his phone records and odometer, of worrying if he's telling the truth.....blah. I'm free of the pain. And though I, like you, "knew" I would never have another relationship, I was free ten years later when the perfect partner came into my life. Not that the divorce and its aftermath wasn't hard, but the freedom to transform myself and my life into something totally new, happy and healthy was well worth anything I gave up on.

 

So maybe when you consider staying in your marriage, one question to ask yourself is not so much "what am I in for?" but "what am I NOT in for?" What possibilities are you forfeiting? What doors are you closing? What roads will you never travel?

 

Either way, happy trails.

[Lostinlife4now]

Brighterwashing.....I can feel your uncertainty through the computer screen!

My heart goes out to you!

 

Like you said, it not all the OW, it's if you STILL LOVE HIM? You sound so unsure, so... I don't really care for this man anymore.

 

I know you are in MC, keep it up, you might come to the conclusion that he really isn't the right man for you!

 

How old are your children? Can you stick it out until after high school?

[BrighterWashing]

The kids are young. The youngest is just a toddler. Yes I can see myself staying that long and then giving up but what a hard life and then to go through the pain at an even older age. Also by then he will blame me if I go, now he would take responsibility for it. It would still be because of the affair but I won't get that recognized. I'll be the bad guy. And older and less strong to go through this.

 

Today I feel like its worth it, yesterday I didn't. I look back and see he hasn't made me feel good for a long time but I was trying to work things out and never resorted to an affair. So his taunts that he'd been unhappy for years (during the affair) hit home now still. Now he says he's happy, grateful I let him stay and happy. I feel like well good for you! <snort>

[Ninja'sHusband]

I think love can rebuilt if you both work on it. I recommend the same as Kidd, read "His Needs Her Needs". If he will, get him to read it too. He needs to do more than heal the A. You *both* need to heal the M. I'd give it some time, for your kids. If you put out the effort and are still truly miserable, or if things are so bad that the kids would be better off if you D...then do that. I constantly think to myself, "What would be best for my daughter?". If that answer ever becomes D, then that's where I'll go. Right now I'm actually kind of uncertain how much my daughter(9 yrs) knows and how she is affected. She's going to counseling for the first time on Wednesday. She's been having school problems lately =\ We'll see what our therapist thinks is the cause.

[Spark1111]

The kids are young. The youngest is just a toddler. Yes I can see myself staying that long and then giving up but what a hard life and then to go through the pain at an even older age. Also by then he will blame me if I go, now he would take responsibility for it. It would still be because of the affair but I won't get that recognized. I'll be the bad guy. And older and less strong to go through this.

 

Today I feel like its worth it, yesterday I didn't. I look back and see he hasn't made me feel good for a long time but I was trying to work things out and never resorted to an affair. So his taunts that he'd been unhappy for years (during the affair) hit home now still. Now he says he's happy, grateful I let him stay and happy. I feel like well good for you! <snort>

 

 

Look. one of the things that helped me through the ambiguity was I knew I loved him, and I always knew I could leave if that was in my best interests....

 

But while I was here in the marriage and we were here together, I was going to do everything in my power to make it not just work, but feel it working too.

 

On some level, some need of your's is not being met now. You have to identify it and ask for it.

 

It is normal to have bouts of great resentment, but the new joys have to compensate for it.

 

I sense there is not enough joy in your current relationship. I understand the endless work of little ones, but you need to plan and create more joy.

 

What do you two do for fun?

[BrighterWashing]

 

On some level, some need of your's is not being met now. You have to identify it and ask for it.

 

It is normal to have bouts of great resentment, but the new joys have to compensate for it.

 

I sense there is not enough joy in your current relationship. I understand the endless work of little ones, but you need to plan and create more joy.

 

What do you two do for fun?

 

I don't know what the need is. I'm not sure there is one. I don't know if I love him after how he has broken me. I'll never have the life of trust and fidelity I thought I'd have and I think maybe I can't accept that. But I don't have GE energy to leave or the fortitude. Leaving is just having the same pain with no one to comfort me.

 

You're right we don't have any fun together. I haven't got the motivation. I just feel stuck being sad. And he gets depressed about what he's done to us. Our Mc says the sadness passes but I can't see how. I just want the pain to stop, to wake up and find it was just a nightmare.

[SandieBeach]

I don't know what the need is. I'm not sure there is one. I don't know if I love him after how he has broken me. I'll never have the life of trust and fidelity I thought I'd have and I think maybe I can't accept that. But I don't have GE energy to leave or the fortitude. Leaving is just having the same pain with no one to comfort me.

 

You're right we don't have any fun together. I haven't got the motivation. I just feel stuck being sad. And he gets depressed about what he's done to us. Our Mc says the sadness passes but I can't see how. I just want the pain to stop, to wake up and find it was just a nightmare.

 

Brighterwashing, it sounds like you are channeling my emotions right now, as well as my husband's behavior. I was just telling him this morning that I wanted to wake up and find this whole thing was just a nightmare.

[BrighterWashing]

Yes I know he gets it. I know he's remorseful. I just don't know if I can ever forgive or be happy. Not just with him, but happy at all.

[Kidd]

Yes I know he gets it. I know he's remorseful. I just don't know if I can ever forgive or be happy. Not just with him, but happy at all.

 

It takes TIME. It became an infamous 4-letter word for me. I thought, surely it won't take 2-5 years. At 9 months in, I realized that the time estimate was no joke. But there are a lot of examples of reconciled couples. I didn't make it that long. I lost it thanks to TT. Spark1111 is an example of someone who has made it to the other side. Her posts hit home for me everytime I read one. If you want to get there, talk to similar posters who have made it and find counsel there. If it ends up being a deal breaker for you, no one here will blame you. But it's not over until you or your H decide it's over. If he does what you need, think there's plenty of empirical examples to show that yes, you can happily reconcile. I suppose it depends on how much patience you have (especially if he falls on his face doing something stupid).

[BrighterWashing]

Yeah he fell on his face a lot. Back in November it turns out he was still telling her what I thought and felt. I don't think he saw it as a further betrayal he was just thinking aloud and responding to her badgering him but it hurts so much that he still didn't have the walls up then, months after he recommitted to the marriage. He was trying to avoid her then but she made sure to run into him.

 

I only found that out last week because she taunted me with a text message. I don't know what to say to him. Since then we've come a long way, I've let some of my anger out, we've survived some bad anniversaries and he has begged me to stay. But it takes me back to last year and the fact he still couldn't shut her out fully then.

 

I hate that she thinks she understands me and knows my weaknesses and all because he fecking told her. Since that I haven't felt any tenderness for him I just feel numb or in pain. I don't think I love him most of the time and then sometimes he will make me feel a little better and I start to think he's the better option compared to divorce.

[Kidd]

Yeah he fell on his face a lot. Back in November it turns out he was still telling her what I thought and felt. I don't think he saw it as a further betrayal he was just thinking aloud and responding to her badgering him but it hurts so much that he still didn't have the walls up then, months after he recommitted to the marriage. He was trying to avoid her then but she made sure to run into him.

 

I only found that out last week because she taunted me with a text message. I don't know what to say to him. Since then we've come a long way, I've let some of my anger out, we've survived some bad anniversaries and he has begged me to stay. But it takes me back to last year and the fact he still couldn't shut her out fully then.

 

I hate that she thinks she understands me and knows my weaknesses and all because he fecking told her. Since that I haven't felt any tenderness for him I just feel numb or in pain. I don't think I love him most of the time and then sometimes he will make me feel a little better and I start to think he's the better option compared to divorce.

 

Ah, if I remember correctly now, they work together but are somewhat separated at thr workplace. Is that right?

 

If that's the case, it's going to be a major impediment to your healing. You can't have constant fears of them being in contact. I gave my wife 90 days to no longer work for the OM. I went crazy after about 45 days thinking the A was ongoing, always wondering. It broke me. You should also have concerns about him. Affairs are like an addiction. Even just a little exposure keeps you engaged with it. What are the chances of him leaving this job? Sometimes this is the kind of grand gesture that can make a big difference. Some couples have moved states away to ensure NC for life. That shows serious commitment. I'm also concerned that you just discovered this contact recently. Once NC was established, my W had to immediately inform me of any contact. It took her a while to fully extricate herself from him (from a work standpoint) and it frustrated the crap out of me. I discovered undisclosed contact on one occassion and it set us back to square one. You can't routinely subject yourself to this kind of nonsense. He needs to be willing to do whatever it takes to help you heal and if that means leaving a job, you shouldn't hesitate to make it a requirement for R.

 

By the way, if they don't work together, disregard everything I just said.

 

Oh, and quit thinking about the OW and what she thinks. The sooner she is irrelevant to your M, the better. Mental NC is a good objective both for the WS and the BS. Focus on your M. When you reach indifference about her, you win. In the meantime, you are giving her power over you (and your R).

[whichwayisup]

I don't think I love him most of the time and then sometimes he will make me feel a little better and I start to think he's the better option compared to divorce.

 

Time for marriage counselling.

[BrighterWashing]

Already doing MC. They no longer work in the same place but will sometimes cross paths as its a small profession in a small city.

[findingnemo]

Brighter, the OW taunts you with text messages?

 

First off, the OW contacting you at all at this point just seems disrespectful. She isn't a nice person. Secondly, you have decided to work on your M for now. You need to realize that this woman has turned herself into your enemy.

 

So what do you do with the text messages she sends you? I would forward them immediately to my H. She's taunting you while acting all sweet and concerned with your H. He needs to see her for the kind of person she is.

 

Also, you could actually threaten to tell her boss that she's chasing your H. Being a small city and a closed profession, you have to think about it a bit. What do you really know about this woman that your H hasn't told you? Any details about her M status, kids, family?

 

I advise you to fight her now because she is provoking you. I know some people think that a BW shouldn't "lower" herself to fighting a OW. But my view is different. You are his W and you will decide when your M is over. Not only was there an A (reason enough) but this woman thinks she can force your hand. To me, you won't be fighting your H's sexual partner, you'll be preserving your right to determine when and if your M is over. I don't take kindly to people forcing my hand and suggest you see her actions as just that.

 

{{{{{Hugs}}}}}}

[BrighterWashing]

Yes she is disrespectful! He's told her that too by email asking her to stay professional only and email only until she has left the institution. She is at a different office right now not in our city but is coming back to our city to work at a different place in the same professional sphere.

 

I know quite a lot about her because she shared a lot by email email with him over a year and I have all the emails. I know her and her husbands parents addresses/phone an her husbands name and her brother and sister in law names and Facebook also several of her friends and many many of her colleagues.

 

I have told 2 friends who she knows professionally and they are appalled. It will hurt her subtly that they know (opportunities wont come her way). I wish I. Had a number for her h but not yet.

 

H is done with her. He can now see what she is and calls her "the bitch" and says he's grateful he woke up to her before it was too late.

 

He is going to send her a final NC email as soon as she returns here in a few weeks (maybe even just before) and saying if she doesn't stay away it will mean a court order. He couldn't do it before she'd officially left his dept.

 

As fat as I'm concerned she was my enemy from the time she saw me when pregnant ad decided to target H. To me that is the most disgusting thing.

[Kidd]

Yes she is disrespectful! He's told her that too by email asking her to stay professional only and email only until she has left the institution. She is at a different office right now not in our city but is coming back to our city to work at a different place in the same professional sphere.

 

I know quite a lot about her because she shared a lot by email email with him over a year and I have all the emails. I know her and her husbands parents addresses/phone an her husbands name and her brother and sister in law names and Facebook also several of her friends and many many of her colleagues.

 

I have told 2 friends who she knows professionally and they are appalled. It will hurt her subtly that they know (opportunities wont come her way). I wish I. Had a number for her h but not yet.

 

H is done with her. He can now see what she is and calls her "the bitch" and says he's grateful he woke up to her before it was too late.

 

He is going to send her a final NC email as soon as she returns here in a few weeks (maybe even just before) and saying if she doesn't stay away it will mean a court order. He couldn't do it before she'd officially left his dept.

 

As fat as I'm concerned she was my enemy from the time she saw me when pregnant ad decided to target H. To me that is the most disgusting thing.

 

I'm getting angry for you. Your H definitely need to do more than ask her to remain professional. I think you're being wise with things like a court order and NC letter and not yet going full on with telling everyone in her known universe. Be careful with threats (for your own sake). I still encourage you to find her BH and out to him. She doesn't need to know it's coming. You gotta find a way to get this woman out of your life without screwing up your own. Start with the OWH. Personally, I think she'll be too busy with her own mess at that point. If that doesn't cut it, she's really asking for it (and you still have to be smart). Use your head and not your emotions. I'm sorry for what you're going thru.

[SandieBeach]

Oh, and quit thinking about the OW and what she thinks. The sooner she is irrelevant to your M, the better. Mental NC is a good objective both for the WS and the BS. Focus on your M. When you reach indifference about her, you win. In the meantime, you are giving her power over you (and your R).

 

Kidd, I think that is awesome advice to give to anyone in this situation. In my situation, I know that I am angry with my husband and blame him for the affair. Period. This woman was just someone with low self-esteem who was stupid enough to get involved with a married man (she knew he was married from the moment they met). YET, she is constantly in my head. I don't know this person, but I am thinking about her all the time (in relationship to my husband, that is), and when I get extremely angry, I call her names I did not even think were in my dictionary. Completely classless, if you ask me.

 

I need to take your advice and really apply it to my emotions and actions. This person is a nobody. She happened to be there when he needed to fulfill his needs, and if she weren't, someone else would be. Thanks for this, Kidd!