Wait or cut my losses?

[scribe1854]

I am in a 2-year relationship with a man I adore. He is kind, generous and fun. We are very compatible, spend almost all our free time together and live together.

 

My issue is that I highly value the idea of being married--being part of a family. I am divorced, amicably. He has never been married, but lived with someone for more than 20 year. I am 47. He is 50. We have a total of five grown children - all of whom live independently.

 

As time passes, I realize that marriage is more and more important to me. We have purchased a piece of property together and were discussing the legal ins and outs of such. When I asked what should happen to the property should we separate, he said, "We would still be business partners. We are both adults."

 

Ouch. While I was truly trying to be practical and avoid later issues, the statement stuck with me. The following day, we were discussing the prospect of him being added to my company insurance policy. I told him it was not allowed except for married couples and registered domestic partners. His response was "I guess I better find some insurance."

 

We have had a number of conversations about marriage in the past, nothing very serious though.

 

My question to everyone is do I cut and run or wait longer? I don't want to be someone's girlfriend at age 50. I don't want to ignore my needs just because I am in a comfortable relationship.

 

I am adamantly opposed to giving an ultimatum. I am so torn about staying or ending it amicably now.

[jerbear]

It does not seem he will change at 50 or when he was 30. Sorry to say either more persuasion is require, let it go, compromise, or just cut your losses.

 

There are many couples who have a partnership for a lack of a better word than being married.

 

Marriage is like an institution, some people do not like to be bound to rules even thought they act and live like a married couple.

 

If you like/love the guy, can you deal with a compromise or let the marriage portion not be a deal breaker?

[OpenBook]

Why do you want to be married? Is it because you want to marry HIM? or is it for the bennies of the institution - security, social standing, financial advantages, etc.?

 

It's possible that his reluctance to entertain the idea is because he's sensing the latter reason in you. It's not about him, it's all about you and your desire for stability (he might be thinking).

 

I could be totally wrong here. But I think in any case, it would be a good idea for you to really understand your own position & the reasons why you want to get married, before you even think about pulling him into it.

[scribe1854]

My reasons for wanting to be married are not material. I own my own home, have a stable and challenging career. I do not need him or anyone to provide for me. I have made wise investments over the years that allow me the freedom to enjoy my life in the ways that I choose.

 

To me, the personal commitment of marriage is a value I hold. It's not about social standing or how others view me. It is a personal belief that is important to me, for no other reason than I would like my partner to know I am totally committed.

 

I am not afraid of being alone or shunned or left out. I have a wide social circle and a huge extended family.

 

I don't want to just be married. I want to be married to him.

[Lauriebell82]

Does he actually WANT to get married? If he's 50, never married, and lived with a partner for 20 years that's a pretty big indicater that he doesn't plan on ever taking "the plunge." Have you guys discussed marriage at all? Other then the "beat around the bush" stuff?

[scribe1854]

We have talked about it, no beating around the bush, but it was definitely casual. He has told me and others than I'm "the one." However, actions ( more appropriately, in action) speak much louder than words. Every day that passes makes it more difficult to believe.

[Lauriebell82]

We have talked about it, no beating around the bush, but it was definitely casual. He has told me and others than I'm "the one." However, actions ( more appropriately, in action) speak much louder than words. Every day that passes makes it more difficult to believe.

 

Did he tell you he wants to marry you someday?

[serial muse]

Yeah, I agree with Lauriebell...I hear that you've brought it up in a general way, but have you actually said to him what you've told us? Meaning,

 

"As time passes, I realize that marriage is more and more important to me. ...To me, the personal commitment of marriage is a value I hold. It's not about social standing or how others view me. It is a personal belief that is important to me, for no other reason than I would like my partner to know I am totally committed."

 

I'll take it a step further, even. Since you've said he's the one - have you considered proposing to him? It's not an ultimatum that way, it's a statement of intent and desire. And a really unambiguous one.

 

Since you're actually considering breaking up as an alternative, what, really, have you got to lose?

 

I wouldn't advocate for hoping and waiting indefinitely until he proposes. It may not be what he has in mind...but it might be that, knowing that it matters to you, he would do it. Commitment does come in different forms to different people - which means that no one's in the wrong, but that both people need to feel comfortable with where they are. Right now, you aren't, and he should hear that.

 

Of course, he might not want to get married at all. You would need to be prepared for that - and that doesn't mean breaking up, necessarily. It means deciding whether you're willing to live with him anyway. There's no wrong answer.

 

The real goal of putting it on the table like that is to get out of the trap of thinking that you have to either wait or break up, rather than clearly stating your intentions and hopes and allowing him to hear that and evaluate where he is, knowing that information. Without any of the hazy "maybe someday" to obscure the moment. Sometimes, it's the best idea to lay cards on the table. That's not an ultimatum, because you're not saying "or else." It's a direct statement to let him know what you really want.

 

Even if he doesn't say yes, how he responds to hearing you lay it out there and say how important this is to you (really listening, and explaining how he feels he is committed to you in other ways vs. being dismissive) may also help you decide whether you would stay.

Edited March 23, 2012 by serial muse

[FitChick]

I wouldn't co-mingle any property if I weren't married to someone.

 

If he really loves you and you propose and he refuses, you should give him 30 days to move out, as you'd do a tenant. Then have no contact until he begs you to marry him. He might realize that living without you is worse than living with you as your husband. It could be that his ex girlfriend kept waiting and hoped to trap him into marriage by having kids until the relationship finally fizzled out.

[setsenia]

 

Ouch. While I was truly trying to be practical and avoid later issues, the statement stuck with me. The following day, we were discussing the prospect of him being added to my company insurance policy. I told him it was not allowed except for married couples and registered domestic partners. His response was "I guess I better find some insurance."

 

This is one of a good amount of things nonmarried people miss out on. Health insurance is very expensive, especially if one of you does not get insurance through an employer. Imagine how much money can be saved each month, (especially at your ages) by being able to add the other person to your plan.

 

At 2 years and living together, you definitely should know where each of you stand. If marriage is a big priority for you, you should know where he stands at this point in the game. Is marriage in the cards eventually, but not now? Or is he perfectly comfortable with being in a long-term committed relationship? I think now is a good time to discuss what each of you wants and where you are going.

[scribe1854]

Thank you serial muse for really understanding where we are.

 

I did lay the cards on the table this weekend. I didn't give any ultimatums. I just asked where he saw us in the future. His reply, "together forever."

 

I said, "I need a commitment." His reply, "How much more committed could I be?" He referenced the fact that we are always together, get along great, etc. He did say that I have been making him feel like I'm not getting enough from him. I agreed, and said I'm not, because that is the truth.

 

I said, "I need a real commitment." His immediate response was "Where did that get you the first time?" referencing the fact that I am divorced. That hurt, and I told him I had my answer. He said he would like it to be his idea, but that is not forthcoming, I am sure.

 

The bottom line is that I fully understand that we are not of the same mind on the issue. I agree with subsequent posters that he will have to move out. We didn't reach that point over the weekend, but as a matter of practicality, it will probably play out in the very near future.

 

I'm saddened by the loss, but glad I made my feelings known without saying get in or get out right now. His responses to me indicate that marriage is simply not in the cards for him (at least to me) now or ever.

 

It is a shame that it has to be this way, but I have no regrets. It saddens me to think he will go on to spend his life as a serial monogamist and never know what it means to really have committed your heart and soul to someone. He is a very giving person and really deserves happiness.

[RiverRunning]

I kind of hate when the marriage knockers roll-in with their ever-present questions of, "Do you want to marry HIM or is it all about the benefits?" Well, both, I'd imagine, for most people getting married. Love for a person is not enough to make a marriage. I have watched too many long-term, live-in couples get screwed by the system when a partner suddenly dies (knew one woman who had everything, including the house in which she was living, go to her son who had barely just turned 18 - thankfully, he gave the house to his mother).

 

Yes. There's tons of paperwork you can fill out to get most, if not all, of the legal sanctions afforded by marriage. But at that point...why not just get married?

 

In any case, OP, I think you are making the right decision. This guy's doing barrel rolls out of the way to avoid ever talking about marriage with you. The fact that you're 2 years in, he's never married anyone else, and his age all indicate to me that it's an issue. However, I do think his comment about your divorce is puzzling.

 

Can we ask what happened in your divorce? He does sound afraid of history repeating itself (was he also the child of divorced parents?). Did you do something that culminated in your divorce? I think his comment warrants a discussion about it - maybe you could outline what happened in your marriage and what you have learned from it. You could ask him why he feels your divorce is relevant to a marriage that the two of you might have in the future. I'm not hopeful about such a conversation, but you never know.

 

If that proves fruitless, I do think you would do best to move on.

[scribe1854]

Riverrunning, I think the answer was more of an avoidance of the issue. My marriage ended for a multitude of reasons - addiction being the key issue. (His addiction-not mine.) The addiction led him to quit his job and basically stop providing for the family. We had two children in college at the time. My ex and I married very young, and experienced a lot of rough roads for nearly 25 years. I know, however, that it takes two, and I chose to immerse myself in work for many years to avoid dealing with it. There came a time when we had to say "enough." We are in a very amicable situation, and he has since remarried to a wonderful woman. I am very happy for him.

 

I am now pretty cognizant of the fact that my guy and I are not going in the same direction on this issue. Regardless of the reasons, it just isn't happening. I don't know if he thinks he will find someone better, if he doesn't want to deal with the reality of it or if he just flat doesn't want to be married. It doesn't really matter. I know what is important to me. It's a shame it could have the same level of importance to both of us. We are actually very good together.

 

It's just a deal-breaker for me. It felt dishonest to not tell him that. I didn't want him to think it was an ultimatum. It wasn't, but it needed to be said.

 

I will add that his long-term relationship has left some significant property issues for him that remain unresolved after many years.

[Lauriebell82]

I said, "I need a real commitment." His immediate response was "Where did that get you the first time?" referencing the fact that I am divorced. That hurt, and I told him I had my answer. He said he would like it to be his idea, but that is not forthcoming, I am sure.

 

I don't know, I don't think the bolded comment sounds like a "no" to me. It sounds like a "please don't pressure me, I want to propose on my own clock."

 

As far as the "where did that get you the first time" comment, I understand that hurt (and justifiably so) and I would be upset by that as well.

 

But he STILL didn't come out and say that he:

a) doesn't want to get married

b) doesn't want to marry you

 

I 100% think he was avoiding the questions, but maybe not for the reasons you think he is. Maybe he just isn't ready or he is scared because of your divorce? But if those are both dealbreakers and you need him to be ready NOW, then do what you have to do.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Lauriebell82

[scribe1854]

It doesn't have to be now, but had the questions been reversed to me, my gut reaction would have been different. There was a definite dance around the core issue of commitment, which is fine. I needed to know where it stood, and now I do. I'm not judging his stance on the issue. He can choose to not be committed to me. I just wanted to know.

 

I haven't made any drastic changes. There is no tension following the conversation. It's just a realization that we are on different paths. It makes me sad, but I appreciate all the time I've had with him, and will continue to appreciate the time we will still spend together in the near future.

[scribe1854]

Just an update. He will be moving out this weekend. Heartbreaking.

[KathyM]

Just an update. He will be moving out this weekend. Heartbreaking.

It's probably for the best. If marriage is very important to you, and he has an aversion to it (which obviously he does), then you are not a match, and it's time to find someone who will have the mindset that matches yours and is not afraid of or has an aversion to that kind of commitment.

[jerbear]

Just an update. He will be moving out this weekend. Heartbreaking.

Sorry to hear about this. You got your answer.

 

We'll be here, LS, to help you through this.

[Lauriebell82]

Im sorry to hear that scribe, but you did the right thing. If he isn't serious about a committment then it's better to cut your losses now then to spend even more time in a relationship that isn't headed anywhere.

 

Congrats on being so strong!

[StoneCold]

It saddens me to think he will go on to spend his life as a serial monogamist and never know what it means to really have committed your heart and soul to someone. He is a very giving person and really deserves happiness.

 

A) Why does his decision to not marry sadden you? and;

B) He lived with somone for 20 years...how much more commited can you get? at that point marriage is only a piece of paper that says..."you're married"

[Lauriebell82]

A) Why does his decision to not marry sadden you? and;

B) He lived with somone for 20 years...how much more commited can you get? at that point marriage is only a piece of paper that says..."you're married"

 

Some people need the piece of paper..I certainly do.

[StoneCold]

Some people need the piece of paper..I certainly do.

 

But clearly he doesnt....so whats to feel "sorry" for him over? (as the OP said)

[scribe1854]

The issue is just that: commitment means different things to us. I need that piece of paper. It says to me and to the world that we are partners in everything. Would you go into business with someone without a written agreement? I think not. To say that commitment without it is the same is wrong, in my opinion. As a society, we have come to undervalue marriage. Don't get me wrong--I am in no way a prude or old fashioned. I just think that a couple should formally commit. We have differing opinions of what that means--which is how I ended up here. I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong, but for me, the formality is important.

[StoneCold]

Would you go into business with someone without a written agreement? I think not. To say that commitment without it is the same is wrong, in my opinion..

 

Well if you were actually going into business with him....and the intent was actually business.... I'm sure you'd have a proper contract.

 

 

As a society, we have come to undervalue marriage. Don't get me wrong--I am in no way a prude or old fashioned. I just think that a couple should formally commit. We have differing opinions of what that means--which is how I ended up here. I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong, but for me, the formality is important.

 

IMHO I think that as a society we are starting to wake up and seriously question the concept of marriage....and many are seeing it as a weak, highly flawed concept; which is why more and more its going by the wayside..... I dont think marriage is under valued; its going through a correction to be properly priced to the market....just my opinion