Met xMM.

[redcurls]

Whether the OW wants the MM to leave or not is irrelevant and doesn't change the validity of what was stated previously.

 

 

What was previously stated are OPINIONS, mine as well as others'. And as such they are always valid - AS OPINIONS.

[Spark1111]

BS shouldn't assume that ALL OW wish for their MM to leave. Just like we don't want to marry every guy we ever dated.

 

I, for one, never asked, or wanted, MM to leave. On principle, I never want any man to leave FOR ME. That's too big a responsibility, and I simply don't want to take on such a burden. If he was to leave because he no longer wanted to stay married, and then I decided that I want to be with him, WHEN he is free, that's a different story.

 

As to MY MM, specifically, now that I have "dated" him for over 2 years, and witnessed up-close and personal his behavior, conduct, psychological issues, treatment of others, etc. - I have no desire whatsoever, to spend the rest of my life with him. His choices, whatever they may be, are meaningless to me. Whether he stays married or not, I will not be a part of his life. THIS IS MY CHOICE.

 

And that took TWO YEARS to figure out??????

 

A man who cheats on his wife?

 

If that is how he treats the primary woman in his life, this comes as a surprise to you? It took TWO years, and not two dates, to come to this conclusion?

 

Actually, this is right on schedule as the rose-colored glasses induced by limerance hormones is now fading and you are finally seeing his true character which was right there all along: A MM who is lying to his wife, is NOT good relationship material!

 

Unless he undergoes some major character changes. Like respecting women enough not to lie and deceive them.

 

Hello????????????

 

I am not being snarky here. I am saying to you what I would say to my daughters. ALWAYS judge a man by his actions, not his seductive words of "lurve"

 

It's called boundaries. And if you don't have them, get some counseling so you can learn how to enact them in your relationships.

 

We always have choice. So how did you reconcile a man lying and deceiving a woman he respected enough to make his wife to being the love of your life?

 

What lies did you tell yourself to go there? Did you think your love was special? Did that make you feel special? Would your love and your love alone make him a better person? Did you buy into his unhappiness with her (poor baby), yet, he never left her for you?

 

Please! I am the only girl with much older brothers! What amazes me is what women do not know about men. Educate yourself!

[Spark1111]

Precisely. Its treating the marriage as if it is a "given"' date=' a constant. Taking for granted that they would ever need to "choose" it to begin with.[/quote']

 

And the reason he is treating it as a given and a constant is that the BS has no idea! This affair/ relationship MUST remain a secret!

 

He has found another woman who empathetically buys into his excuses that he cannot leave because of the kids, the money, the house, now is not a good time, blah, blah, blah.

 

It's the perfect cover, but only if the OW is they type that buys into and helps him enable the secrecy.

 

If she did not buy into his particular brand of bs, if she set boundaries and said enough is enough, she would not find herself in this position!

 

Don't tell me he lives in the basement and they NEVER have sex!

 

STG, I have heard that four times in the last two weeks from single dating women.

 

It's an epidemic of basement dwellers, or horny, bored, MM trying to find a woman who believes this bs!

[redcurls]

And that took TWO YEARS to figure out??????

 

A man who cheats on his wife?

 

If that is how he treats the primary woman in his life, this comes as a surprise to you? It took TWO years, and not two dates, to come to this conclusion?

 

Actually, this is right on schedule as the rose-colored glasses induced by limerance hormones is now fading and you are finally seeing his true character which was right there all along: A MM who is lying to his wife, is NOT good relationship material!

 

Unless he undergoes some major character changes. Like respecting women enough not to lie and deceive them.

 

Hello????????????

 

I am not being snarky here. I am saying to you what I would say to my daughters. ALWAYS judge a man by his actions, not his seductive words of "lurve"

 

It's called boundaries. And if you don't have them, get some counseling so you can learn how to enact them in your relationships.

 

We always have choice. So how did you reconcile a man lying and deceiving a woman he respected enough to make his wife to being the love of your life?

 

What lies did you tell yourself to go there? Did you think your love was special? Did that make you feel special? Would your love and your love alone make him a better person? Did you buy into his unhappiness with her (poor baby), yet, he never left her for you?

 

Please! I am the only girl with much older brothers! What amazes me is what women do not know about men. Educate yourself!

 

 

No. He never said one bad word about wife or their lives together. And I actually think that happiness comes from within. It's not up to your wife, kids, OW, or anyone else, to make you happy. So whether he is happy or not - that's all on him.

 

Again - your are stereotyping. I fell in love with him because of MY issues. I've allowed this relationship to go on for this long because of MY issues. I own my choices. And as I am working on MY issues, I am finding my reasons to engage in a relationship with him. It's a process of self-exploration. Was the writing on the wall all along - ABSOLUTELY. Was I capable THEN of seeing it? Unfortunately not.

[NoIDidn't]

No. He never said one bad word about wife or their lives together. And I actually think that happiness comes from within. It's not up to your wife, kids, OW, or anyone else, to make you happy. So whether he is happy or not - that's all on him.

 

Again - your are stereotyping. I fell in love with him because of MY issues. I've allowed this relationship to go on for this long because of MY issues. I own my choices. And as I am working on MY issues, I am finding my reasons to engage in a relationship with him. It's a process of self-exploration. Was the writing on the wall all along - ABSOLUTELY. Was I capable THEN of seeing it? Unfortunately not.

 

What I am stating now, may very well be an opinion, but its an opinion based on observable facts.

 

That "writing on the wall", is what I am talking about. To me, a MM engaging in an A is a married man. The operative word for me is married. And as long as he is married, its my opinion that he is choosing to stay that way.

 

I hope you have moved on from him and found some peace in your process of self-exploration.

[Spark1111]

And her CHOICE is either kick out the cheater or remain married to the CHEATER. Yeah, she won the prize! Not.

 

Sad puppy, this is the same man you love and cheat with!

 

WHY oh WHY, when he returns to the wife, he is no longer a prize?

 

But when he is with you, and YOU know he is married and lying, he is YOUR prize in your relationship?????

 

I swear I will never understand this line of thinking. It speaks to I am better, unless or until he chooses to return to her.

 

Then he is scum and she can have her "prize." NOT.

 

And OW NEVER compete with the unsuspecting BS?????????????

[NoIDidn't]

Sad puppy, this is the same man you love and cheat with!

 

WHY oh WHY, when he returns to the wife, he is no longer a prize?

 

But when he is with you, and YOU know he is married and lying, he is YOUR prize in your relationship?????

 

I swear I will never understand this line of thinking. It speaks to I am better, unless or until he chooses to return to her.

 

Then he is scum and she can have her "prize." NOT.

 

And OW NEVER compete with the unsuspecting BS?????????????

 

 

Spark,

 

This is the thinking that leaves the OW blameless and makes the MM and his W, fools.

 

Further, the W was always married to the cheater, or it wouldn't have been an affair.

 

It so interesting that its supposed to be an insult to the W that she is married to a cheater, but that this same (implied dirtbag) cheater was a wonderful loving interesting smart man when the A was going well.

 

I guess its human nature to some degree.

[Spark1111]

Spark,

 

This is the thinking that leaves the OW blameless and makes the MM and his W, fools.

 

Further, the W was always married to the cheater, or it wouldn't have been an affair.

 

It so interesting that its supposed to be an insult to the W that she is married to a cheater, but that this same (implied dirtbag) cheater was a wonderful loving interesting smart man when the A was going well.

 

I guess its human nature to some degree.

 

It's adolescent human nature to the nth degree.

 

He is a great guy, the love of my life, my soulmate.....unless he rejects me to return to his wife of a gazillion years; the one he chose to marry, have children with, provide for and host family holidays with.

 

Then he's scum.

 

Either he is, or he isn't a great guy.

 

Or, I can only view him through the selfish prism of how great he made me feel, and when that stopped, he was dirt.

 

It so smacks of being dumped by the high school quarterback for the head cheerleader and sometimes, as much as I try to enlighten women, I gotta get out of the cafeteria.

 

Here's the difference. I ALWAYS believed my H was a good man. Hell, I married HIM and stuck by him through thick and thin. It was a good marriage and a good relationship with the exception of four years, almost two of which he was engaged in an affair.

 

IF he had chosen his OW after dday, I would grieve the marriage, I would be royally pissed off he had lied to me for a while, but then, you know what?

 

I would eventually conclude he is STILL a good man. Hell, I chose him once upon a time to build an entire life with.

 

He would NEVER REMAIN scum to me, even though he had some really scummy actions. Broken, damaged, confused, maybe, but SCUM?

 

He would always be the father of my children and as long as he continued to treat them kindly, and me with respect, he could still be my friend no matter who he had a future relationship with.

 

See? That is the mature, grown-up view of relationship that has ended, even if it ended poorly.

 

That shouts self-respect and self-esteem, some wisdom, forgiveness and some understanding of my role in the demise of MY former relationship.

[bentnotbroken]

Mr. Messy was not a great guy. He is NPD and I felt the effects of that for years. Whether she was with him, the one's before her were with him or he was with someone completely new...he was not a nice guy. But I loved him as much as I hated the way he made me feel. And I took my vows seriously as I thought he did.

[NoIDidn't]

It's adolescent human nature to the nth degree.

 

He is a great guy, the love of my life, my soulmate.....unless he rejects me to return to his wife of a gazillion years; the one he chose to marry, have children with, provide for and host family holidays with.

 

Then he's scum.

 

Either he is, or he isn't a great guy.

 

Or, I can only view him through the selfish prism of how great he made me feel, and when that stopped, he was dirt.

 

It so smacks of being dumped by the high school quarterback for the head cheerleader and sometimes, as much as I try to enlighten women, I gotta get out of the cafeteria.

 

Here's the difference. I ALWAYS believed my H was a good man. Hell, I married HIM and stuck by him through thick and thin. It was a good marriage and a good relationship with the exception of four years, almost two of which he was engaged in an affair.

 

IF he had chosen his OW after dday, I would grieve the marriage, I would be royally pissed off he had lied to me for a while, but then, you know what?

 

I would eventually conclude he is STILL a good man. Hell, I chose him once upon a time to build an entire life with.

 

He would NEVER REMAIN scum to me, even though he had some really scummy actions. Broken, damaged, confused, maybe, but SCUM?

 

He would always be the father of my children and as long as he continued to treat them kindly, and me with respect, he could still be my friend no matter who he had a future relationship with.

 

See? That is the mature, grown-up view of relationship that has ended, even if it ended poorly.

 

That shouts self-respect and self-esteem, some wisdom, forgiveness and some understanding of my role in the demise of MY former relationship.

 

Great post, Spark! Spoken like a woman who truly loved her husband even when he hurt her the most.

[findingnemo]

Actually BW, you have made a very good observation. People make mistakes. What determines the kind of person they are is how they face those mistakes. How they sort out the mess they made.

 

ETA: I was going to make a point but I've lost it now. Too much going on with work. Will be back later.

Edited March 29, 2012 by findingnemo

[Gentlegirl2]

Wow BW.. I think you and you H have a glimmer of hope. I am so glad to read that.

 

What you want and are able to do will become clearer as time goes on. Distance from the high drama and emotions of the affair will allow calm and logical relflection .

 

Keep on going through the mess. I hope this forum is helping you. It has a bit of everything to offer everybody.

 

GG

 

 

 

g

[Lostinlife4now]

At his request after 15 months NC.

 

I am very glad I did, because I looked at him and thought WTF did I ever see in you?

 

He looks terrible and has lost a tremendous amount of weight, due to the unhappiness of his wife and his own unhappiness. It didn't move me one bit. I just thought.. "Oh well, you chose to have the A and now you can't understand the consequences. Where were your kind thoughts after you dumped me?"

 

I kept my counsel and had a chat. He asked when we were saying farewell if I ever want any further contact with him. I simply said no , no point at all. I explained that the meet up had given me the peace I had been looking for and now my future was waiting for me.

 

It was like talking to somebody who was vaguely familiar, but nothing more. No fireworks or chemistry. It's called indifference.

 

I guess it happens...it's my turn.

 

GG

 

Oh GG!!!!!!

 

So happy for you! I know EXACTLY how you feel!

 

When I last saw xMM he looked very very skinny....unhappy, because the drug that I was giving him put him into withdrawal! I actually felt sorry for him!

 

Indifference....such a wonderful feeling! Been there done that....now have moved on!!!!

[Lostinlife4now]

That's just the beginning as you well know. Really how could you could you not see that!

 

OP I don't think you should pity him for whatever's happening at home. Either he is committed to her and is doing what they need, which is healing his character, or he's suffering what he deserves. It's the wife who is blameless, she didn't ask for the 2 of you to do this to her and she is beating consequences she never should have. If he's having a hard time it's because he's either not sincere with her (and he should suffer) or because he's doing something hard that's the right thing to do (and will be a better person). He doesn't deserve your comment about how bad he looks either way.

 

 

Brighterwashing.....you still sound like you are having a hard time dealing....

 

Hope you have hurried healing! Not good to go around with so much venom in your soul. Jus sayin'.....

 

Hugs to you!

[Lostinlife4now]

Tomorrow I'm buying an entire truckload of PEPSI. I will then dump each can of PEPSI down the toilet. PEPSI sucks

 

 

Don't drink soda, never did NEVER will! Now can you please go find another website to talk about your SODA!!! Tired of this!!!! Bye bye!!!!

[Spark1111]

Brighterwashing.....you still sound like you are having a hard time dealing....

 

Hope you have hurried healing! Not good to go around with so much venom in your soul. Jus sayin'.....

 

Hugs to you!

 

Among the many OW who post here, pursuing and having an affair with a MM while knowing his wife is pregnant with their third child, is about as low as you can go.

 

Trying to continue secret contact with him, while also sending some 'encouraging' words to BW, is about as sick and manipulative as you can get.

 

BW has MUCH to overcome. Let's cut her some slack.

[Lostinlife4now]

Among the many OW who post here, pursuing and having an affair with a MM while knowing his wife is pregnant with their third child, is about as low as you can go.

 

Trying to continue secret contact with him, while also sending some 'encouraging' words to BW, is about as sick and manipulative as you can get.

 

BW has MUCH to overcome. Let's cut her some slack.

 

 

I understand BW has alot to overcome...While cutting her some slack...she should cut herself some slack....and just move on. She would feel so much better just to say....I'm done, let me live a happy life now with my H and family. To hell with the OW! Get my drift??

[Lostinlife4now]

I understand BW has alot to overcome...While cutting her some slack...she should cut herself some slack....and just move on. She would feel so much better just to say....I'm done, let me live a happy life now with my H and family. To hell with the OW! Get my drift??

 

 

Needed to add: I walked far and fast away from xMM HOPING he would restore his M and not go out and cheat again! I felt sorry for his W and could not continue to lying and sneaking...Don't know how he is doing or even care..just want them to get back on track and have a happy and wonderful life and marriage together. He was NEVER going to divorce her, so why not have a true and authentic Marriage.

[Radagast]

And I don't know how to make it simpler either.

 

You've heard the phrase, "Married men never leave," right? They almost always want the BS to take them back - no matter what they tell the OW. THAT is why they never leave. THAT is why they always go back. They don't "choose" to want to go back or wait . . . because there is no choice to be made and OW was never an option. The only times OW is an option is when THE WIFE makes the choice to end the marriage.

 

Their choice was made the day they got married. That's why OW is a side dish and not their wife. There's no picking. There's no choosing . . . no changing minds. If MM "leaves," he got kicked out. If MM is "separated," he got kicked out and is merely waiting to go home.

 

The fate of the marriage is almost always in the wife's hands and what SHE CHOOSES to do . . . plain and simple.

 

You are completely mistaken.

 

My choice was made when I fell in love. Yes, it took me longer than it should have to act on that choice because I was concerned about the effect it would have on my children. My exwife would have loved me to have no choice. Sadly for her, the law did not agree with her and granted our divorce.

[Spark1111]

I understand BW has alot to overcome...While cutting her some slack...she should cut herself some slack....and just move on. She would feel so much better just to say....I'm done, let me live a happy life now with my H and family. To hell with the OW! Get my drift??

 

And hopefully that will happen soon when they no longer need to have professional contact due to their employment.

 

Could you have runa away from your xMM if he had reason to keep seeing you; if you were co-workers?

[wannabdone]

You shouldn't have broke no contact.

 

That's like a waste of 15 months of "sobriety."

 

It's easy to rationalize hitting the crack pipe again "just to see if I still like the taste."

 

All addicts do it.

 

To each their own. She didn't hit the crack pipe, she was merely around the crack pipe and turned and walked away from it. Doesn't blow her sobriety, just made her realize how sober she really is now.

[carrie999]

I would say she has every right to be bitter...she is obviously in pain, so no need to add to it with your callous disregard for the agony a BS feels.

 

Which forum is this? Last I checked, this is a place for OW/OM to seek advice and comfort from those who have experienced similar situations, not a forum for BS to take out their anger on OW/OM. The OP here is clearly in pain, and I don't see you defending her for the callous disregard of her feelings.

[mercy]

Ahhhhh Angelina is a fow who married her mm then ended up a BS. You don't think she has a right to post here?

 

NO! She has forfeited that right by becoming a betrayed spouse.

 

She will have to become an other woman again.

 

Sorry Angelina but those are the rules.

[NoIDidn't]

NO! She has forfeited that right by becoming a betrayed spouse.

 

She will have to become an other woman again.

 

Sorry Angelina but those are the rules.

 

I just got this computer fixed! Now it has water on the keys....again!

 

[Lostinlife4now]

And hopefully that will happen soon when they no longer need to have professional contact due to their employment.

 

Could you have runa away from your xMM if he had reason to keep seeing you; if you were co-workers?

 

 

Sorry Spark...just saw this...We were co-workers at some point and time...and I DID RUN AWAY!!!!!! FAST.....Got another job! Oh well!!!