Met xMM.

[TurningTables]

Hi GG.

 

I do hope that the future is bright for you and you give me hope that one day I can see xMM without wishing I could kick him into shark-infested waters! lol

 

Best wishes.

 

TT

[beenburned]

Tiger,

My statement about H's values/morals were more about his not living up to his Christian beliefs concerning adultery.

 

When we married I chose him based on our similar values/morals.

 

To have him treat me and our marriage with such disrespect, and turn his back on his beliefs were devastating.

 

I liked your example, but the main difference is when you are single, you aren't hurting anybody else by your bad behavior.(except yourself)

 

When you are married with children, all bad kinds of behavior will affect not only the spouse, but the children also. (No matter if it is drinking, doing drugs, stealing, cheating, etc.)

 

I will post more later but I have to go meet my H at RL to eat. Today is our wedding anniversary!

[TigerCub]

Tiger,

My statement about H's values/morals were more about his not living up to his Christian beliefs concerning adultery.

 

When we married I chose him based on our similar values/morals.

 

To have him treat me and our marriage with such disrespect, and turn his back on his beliefs were devastating.

 

I liked your example, but the main difference is when you are single, you aren't hurting anybody else by your bad behavior.(except yourself)

 

When you are married with children, all bad kinds of behavior will affect not only the spouse, but the children also. (No matter if it is drinking, doing drugs, stealing, cheating, etc.)

 

I will post more later but I have to go meet my H at RL to eat. Today is our wedding anniversary!

 

Happy Anniversary!

I look forward to chatting with you some more.

[whichwayisup]

You say that some of these BS realize how unhealthy and selfish the A was and what the feelings were based on. Even so, does that make what was felt at the time, at that moment back in the day any less real?

 

Depends on the person I guess?

Also those feelings, as fast and intense as they were felt can disappear just as quickly because of what it was based on and not enough glue to hold it together so to speak.

[donnamaybe]

I think everyone has to deal with grief and closure differently. Maybe she felt she needed this to really prove to herself it was over. Maybe she wanted to give him the finger and show him how she had moved on.... we all process differently.

If I were in her shoes, this would be me.

 

Good for your GG. Healing is a good thing.

[BrighterWashing]

Damn quote is t working- sorry.

 

Absolutely agree with those who picked up my point. It isn't a rule. It isn't my wanting to control his thought. It's just a practicality. I would not reconcile with a man who said he lived me, was remorseful etc but still thought the woman who tried to replace me (with my kids as well as him) was a nice person go meant no harm. She might have been a nice person once, she might have true remorse one day and be nice again but in this context she was not. She wasn't even nice to him- what friend would want their friend to be a liar?

 

I just wouldn't believe him when he said he loved me if he didn't dislike her because who could you like someone who hurt someone you loved that much? I know I couldn't. It's priorities, it's loyalty, it's seeing the harm done and putting responsibility on both the APs.

 

I never told him he had to dislike her. But I didn't agree to reconcile until he woke up to her. That's no accident.

 

I don't think she ought to remember him fondly either fwiw. She does and clearly it stops her moving on. Also it shows he doesn't know how he has betrayed her to me. If she knew that I knew the odd things she has to do to overcome her sexual problems I think she would die of shame.

[sad puppy]

My MM never spoke really negative about his wife. He told me how some of how her behaviors were wrong, but he always said she was a good person, a nice person. I would've respected him much less had he really bad mouthed her.

 

I would imagine it would apply to a MM too. The reason he fell in love with the AP was simply because the AP was also a good person, a nice person. In their eyes, at least.

 

I think it's awesome that GG has found her freedom, her peace of mind. How wonderful.

[BrighterWashing]

Sad Puppy the wife and mistress are not equals. H didn't bad mouth me in fact he defended me when MOW bitched about me. So he should but it doesn't excuse letting her in.

 

But I didn't ever set out to take anyone's place, destroy 4 lives if not more (she never considered her own kids). I think if he could not say those are evil actions of a broken not nice person then haver hasn't woken up to her and is necessarily still buying her image.

 

I had a close friend who was killed by a drunk driver who was a neighbor of ours. I know at some level the neighbor was broken and might one day be healed but I cannot in good conscience like a person who caused such harm to a loved one. It just isn't mentally or emotionally possible to say their drinking and driving that night wasn't evil. I am disgusted with them as We both are with OW.

 

I just can't like someone who hurt someone I loved (even if my friend hadn't died).

 

MOW was responsible for her actions even if under the influence of hormones. If he didn't dislike her he wouldn't have me to come home to. Simple as that.

[sad puppy]

Sad Puppy the wife and mistress are not equals. H didn't bad mouth me in fact he defended me when MOW bitched about me. So he should but it doesn't excuse letting her in.

 

But I didn't ever set out to take anyone's place, destroy 4 lives if not more (she never considered her own kids). I think if he could not say those are evil actions of a broken not nice person then haver hasn't woken up to her and is necessarily still buying her image.

 

I had a close friend who was killed by a drunk driver who was a neighbor of ours. I know at some level the neighbor was broken and might one day be healed but I cannot in good conscience like a person who caused such harm to a loved one. It just isn't mentally or emotionally possible to say their drinking and driving that night wasn't evil. I am disgusted with them as We both are with OW.

 

I just can't like someone who hurt someone I loved (even if my friend hadn't died).

 

MOW was responsible for her actions even if under the influence of hormones. If he didn't dislike her he wouldn't have me to come home to. Simple as that.

 

Alrighty then, so what's the problem then? He came home to you.

[jwi71]

Damn quote is t working- sorry.

 

Absolutely agree with those who picked up my point. It isn't a rule. It isn't my wanting to control his thought. It's just a practicality. I would not reconcile with a man who said he lived me, was remorseful etc but still thought the woman who tried to replace me (with my kids as well as him) was a nice person go meant no harm. She might have been a nice person once, she might have true remorse one day and be nice again but in this context she was not. She wasn't even nice to him- what friend would want their friend to be a liar?

 

I just wouldn't believe him when he said he loved me if he didn't dislike her because who could you like someone who hurt someone you loved that much? I know I couldn't. It's priorities, it's loyalty, it's seeing the harm done and putting responsibility on both the APs.

 

I never told him he had to dislike her. But I didn't agree to reconcile until he woke up to her. That's no accident.

 

I don't think she ought to remember him fondly either fwiw. She does and clearly it stops her moving on. Also it shows he doesn't know how he has betrayed her to me. If she knew that I knew the odd things she has to do to overcome her sexual problems I think she would die of shame.

 

BrighterWashing,

 

I wonder, at reading some of your posts, if you are better served avoiding the OW/OM section for now anyways. Read your post above. All about "your OW". While reference to one's past is clearly acceptable and necessary in life, I'm getting a sense that your situation is still raw for you.

And that leads to some displaced anger and hostility, however subtle, towards OW.

 

Just a thought. Please don't interpret this as "ordering" you out, Im not.

Nor am I telling you how to post. Merely suggesting that this side of the triangle may presents viewpoints that raw emotion prevent you from processing.

 

As a BS myself, BTDT. On this very board even.

 

Just a suggestion from one BS to another.

[ladydesigner]

GG congrats on being able to give closure to this. While I probably would have not met with XMM, at least you didn't cave when you saw him. Now you can leave this one in the past:)

[BrighterWashing]

Alrighty then, so what's the problem then? He came home to you.

 

That's just the beginning as you well know. Really how could you could you not see that!

 

OP I don't think you should pity him for whatever's happening at home. Either he is committed to her and is doing what they need, which is healing his character, or he's suffering what he deserves. It's the wife who is blameless, she didn't ask for the 2 of you to do this to her and she is beating consequences she never should have. If he's having a hard time it's because he's either not sincere with her (and he should suffer) or because he's doing something hard that's the right thing to do (and will be a better person). He doesn't deserve your comment about how bad he looks either way.

[Gentlegirl2]

I see nothing much has changed here at all. I have not been looking or posting a great deal lately. Just while you are fighting amongst yoursleves...

 

Firstly I commented on xMM's appearance because he does look shocking, skeletal, compared to when I saw him last. I estimate he last lost 20 pounds . Secondly he told me his wife was unhappy so I didn't presume anything at all. They have had 3 family tragedies in the last year as well as trying to reconcile. Yeah.. I did feel sorry for him.

 

People don't automatically start to hate each other ... it's not a "NC, hate sets in" kind of formula. Human beings don't work that way especially after 3 years.

 

I don't believe it's civilised to say goodbye to somebody by phone or email. I'm still old fashioned in that way and like to communicate face to face.

 

It was something I felt I needed to do. I didn't run after him when he asked at all, it was my choice and glad it happened.

 

In a way, it was a f/u for him too. MY life is busy and I have had lots of travel, career success. In short it's bloody good now!

 

Thanks to those who wished me well in my future, and to those who had to nit pick about something...as I said nothing's changed here. You all have your own agenda, I understand.

 

Have a lovely weekend,

 

GG

[sad puppy]

BrighterWashing,

 

I wonder, at reading some of your posts, if you are better served avoiding the OW/OM section for now anyways. Read your post above. All about "your OW". While reference to one's past is clearly acceptable and necessary in life, I'm getting a sense that your situation is still raw for you.

And that leads to some displaced anger and hostility, however subtle, towards OW.

 

Just a thought. Please don't interpret this as "ordering" you out, Im not.

Nor am I telling you how to post. Merely suggesting that this side of the triangle may presents viewpoints that raw emotion prevent you from processing.

 

As a BS myself, BTDT. On this very

 

Just a suggestion from one BS to another.

 

I agree. Marinating here and focusing on the OW cannot be helpful. One needs to focus on where the problem truly lies, and it is not with the OW. Additionally, continuing to rail here against all OW isn't helpful to us, or you.

[BrighterWashing]

As commented on before I will stop being interested here when she's out of my life. Until then it's all insight. Bit is it just. I thank many of you for the insight I really do.

 

I know sad puppy is a big believer in blame only the WS and I respect that, it's a common view too. I disagree. Both are blameworthy and there is enough to go round. I don't bother venting about WS here, I could but it's a different issue.

 

The OW is not all alike. I refer to "mine" to make that clear. That's all really.

[Angelina527]

As commented on before I will stop being interested here when she's out of my life. Until then it's all insight. Bit is it just. I thank many of you for the insight I really do.

 

I know sad puppy is a big believer in blame only the WS and I respect that, it's a common view too. I disagree. Both are blameworthy and there is enough to go round. I don't bother venting about WS here, I could but it's a different issue.

 

The OW is not all alike. I refer to "mine" to make that clear. That's all really.

 

I agree. My husband gets plenty of blame, but the OW are to blame, as well.

 

Just like I was to blame when I was an OW.

[Angelina527]

GG, way to be strong and get what you needed!

[MissBee]

At his request after 15 months NC.

 

I am very glad I did, because I looked at him and thought WTF did I ever see in you?

 

He looks terrible and has lost a tremendous amount of weight, due to the unhappiness of his wife and his own unhappiness. It didn't move me one bit. I just thought.. "Oh well, you chose to have the A and now you can't understand the consequences. Where were your kind thoughts after you dumped me?"

 

I kept my counsel and had a chat. He asked when we were saying farewell if I ever want any further contact with him. I simply said no , no point at all. I explained that the meet up had given me the peace I had been looking for and now my future was waiting for me.

 

It was like talking to somebody who was vaguely familiar, but nothing more. No fireworks or chemistry. It's called indifference.

 

I guess it happens...it's my turn.

 

GG

 

Yaaay!

 

Felt the same about my ex the last I saw him in 2010.....

 

It was a good feeling to be released from that craziness and just seeing him as some regular ol' guy that had no power over me and who wasn't the greatest thing since.

 

I saw some pics of him recently and I had the same feeling....he's vaguely familiar but it is hard to believe that I was soooo inlove with him and also hated him (which isn't the opposite of love as we know but indifference as you've learned)...my heart didn't skip a beat, I didn't see his pics and think of "us" or old times...there was no reaction except "Oh I know him".

 

Very happy for you that you have found peace!

[MissBee]

A little presumptuous, don't you think? You may not be as close to indifference as you think, if you still feel the need to bash his wife. Just sayin.

 

I did not read that as bashing his wife...

 

I read that as saying that due to his wife's unhappiness with him and his own unhappiness...all that emotional stress is taking a toll on him.

 

Didn't see anywhere at all where it was some insult to the wife.

[frozensprouts]

I see nothing much has changed here at all. I have not been looking or posting a great deal lately. Just while you are fighting amongst yoursleves...

 

Firstly I commented on xMM's appearance because he does look shocking, skeletal, compared to when I saw him last. I estimate he last lost 20 pounds . Secondly he told me his wife was unhappy so I didn't presume anything at all. They have had 3 family tragedies in the last year as well as trying to reconcile. Yeah.. I did feel sorry for him.

 

People don't automatically start to hate each other ... it's not a "NC, hate sets in" kind of formula. Human beings don't work that way especially after 3 years.

 

I don't believe it's civilised to say goodbye to somebody by phone or email. I'm still old fashioned in that way and like to communicate face to face.

 

It was something I felt I needed to do. I didn't run after him when he asked at all, it was my choice and glad it happened.

 

In a way, it was a f/u for him too. MY life is busy and I have had lots of travel, career success. In short it's bloody good now!

 

Thanks to those who wished me well in my future, and to those who had to nit pick about something...as I said nothing's changed here. You all have your own agenda, I understand.

 

Have a lovely weekend,

 

GG

 

I think it's good that you said a final goodbye to him on your terms. you took control of your life and the situation and gave yourself the power to say what you needed to say and let him know that it is final. you now know that you've said everything you need to say, and you can be in full control of your life.

I think that is wonderful for you...you seem like you are a very strong perosn who has a lot of wisdom to share with those who can use it

[MissBee]

I think everyone has to deal with grief and closure differently. Maybe she felt she needed this to really prove to herself it was over. Maybe she wanted to give him the finger and show him how she had moved on.... we all process differently.

 

I agree.

 

I think sometimes in NC we can't see our true progress. With all my exes, it was after a while of NC and them coming back or me talking with them was when I realized my true growth or lack thereof. If you are healed...seeing them won't set you back, if you aren't, you learn just how much more healing you have ahead. Breaking NC is not the worse thing ever, it always shows your progress and if you are "set back" you weren't healed anyway and so more healing is still left, as it would have been anyway.

 

Sometimes seeing that person a final time and realizing you could care less puts an extra spring in your step and you KNOW for a fact you're done. When I was in NC I would always be nervous about what if I saw him out and about etc...but once NC was broken I could truly move on with my life as I saw him, got it out of the way and did not care. So it can indeed provide a check of your progress and a closing of the chapter for YOU and your healing.

[whichwayisup]

Secondly he told me his wife was unhappy so I didn't presume anything at all. They have had 3 family tragedies in the last year as well as trying to reconcile. Yeah.. I did feel sorry for him.

 

I think the weight loss is more to do with 3 family tragedies than them trying to reconcile. That's a lot for anybody to take, marriage issues or not!

[BrighterWashing]

Kind of a side question here, don't mean to thread jack:

 

Is it different if the OW breaks NC to get, test or prove closure vs when the MM does?

 

My instinct is that it's better for the OW if she breaks NC and gets to see him "on her terms". It's not good for the marriage or the wife though because it how's the OW still thinks she has "rights" with the MM.

 

If the MM does it then the OW feeling kind of depends why he did it- if it validated her then she will feel better at the wife's expense again, but if he uses it to reject her again and show he's better without her then it's really a win for him, his wife and the marriage. Better still if they approach OW together and it's clear they are a united front.

 

Unfortunately I think some OW do feel that like a R with a single person they have rights for explanations, closure and post A respect, not realizing that this isn't so and is directly at odds with the wife's right to have him throw OW under a bus. Of course for OW who never knew he was married its really hard because in conscience you do have tw rights of a single person but in fact have to accept you're going to hurt someone further who doesn't deserve it if you pursue those rights. All I can say to these OW is that he was a psychopathic liar and you shouldn't want his explanation but I know it's not that simple.

 

As a wife I would see contacting the OW in the way first described in this thread as the ultimate deal breaker. She doesn't deserve more explanation than "I'm married. I love my wife. No contact ever."

 

I know that's harsh on tw OW but I'm afraid that's the price if he wants to reconcile. I know I'm not the only w who thinks that.

[U472439]

only a budding xOM, but I think I'd be more disappointed in myself if I reached out to her than vice versa. Which is to say, it would have to be xMW to reach out because I won't. I'm trying to separate myself from the A as quickly and cleanly (ha) as I can, and reaching out to her would not only be the ultimate mixed message, but depending on how far I'd actually come, be totally self-destructive.

 

I also wonder how many A's actually receive closure like the one in this thread, or any at all. My gut says that a lot of them probalby just end, however dramatically, but not sure. It's the aftermath that stretches out indefinitely.

[SidLyon]

I have mixed feelings about this situation.

 

As a fBW I can't help but see it as a fresh (or maybe ongoing) betrayal by the MM of his BW. This means there's no doubt in my mind that the OW is a participant in this betrayal of the unknowing BW. Not the main instigator but definitely a participant.

 

On the other hand the OW may have gone along with it (as GG appears to) in order to get some closure or resolution of her own.

 

I guess whether or not an OW meets again with the MM will depend on her own attitudes. If she has a strong desire to no longer participate in the betrayal of another woman, then perhaps she would not meet with the MM. But if her own need for closure outweighs any desire to cease being part of such an awful betrayal, then I can understand how she might meet with the MM.

 

As the MM is not posting here I can safely say he is being despicable in meeting with the OW while wanting to stay married to his wife. I gather this particular MM is trawling the internet dating sites for more OW so I have no respect for him.

 

Perhaps his drastic weight loss is more to do with his own unhappiness than his BW's.