Don't you hate when SHORT women require TALL men???

[jobaba]

 

I'm confused. What are you suggesting?

 

To date foreign women, and older divorcees?

 

There are many foreign women who come to America for graduate school. A lot of them are pretty, smart, and fun. Describes my ex. Crazy as a bat describes her too but I won't get into that. They're often less picky because they dating in other countries isn't like it is here. Especially the parts that YOU bitch about (women getting hit on all the time, etc).

 

And as far as OLDER divorcees, you're THIRTY ONE bro. There are a good amount of good women who married relatively early and split from their husbands. Like I said, they haven't gone through the highly shallow and judgmental game that is dating.

 

Broaden your horizons.

 

The others are just like 'try harder, try harder.'

 

I'm giving you tips from my own playbook. I used to be you (more or less).

 

Like I said, take it or leave it (my advice).

[somedude81]

Really, it's not your primary reason. Even if you were 6' you wouldn't get a girlfriend. There are enough male posters here who are not short and they still don't have girlfriends.

I would love to make a wager on that if it were possible.

 

I've been paying attention to the taller men who are still having trouble with women and it's obvious to me why they are still single. For one, a few of the guys put in less effort with women than I do. Some other guys have very poor social skills and have some disability or an anxiety disorder.

 

I don't have any of that.

 

If I was taller, I wouldn't have any self-esteem or confidence issues so those are instantly ruled out. Then having slightly lower than average social skills would be canceled out by women being physically attracted to me. And with enough time interacting with a GF and possibly her friends, my social skills would catch up as well. More on that part later.

And you claim to be an average guy with normal standards? Your self-description makes people think that your standards are indeed too high. If you have crappy social/communication skills and low confidence, then maybe you should consider girls that don't meet your "average" standards completely? You can't describe yourself as sub-par in important parts of your personality and expect that average is what you should get. Sub-par is not average.

Yes my standards are normal. That doesn't change just because of who I am.

 

When it comes to women, below average just means she's one of the few ugly girls that exist, or she's fat. For me, a woman's social skills are not important.

 

I think my problem, is that I'm basically expecting a woman to have as low standards as I do. But women obviously have far more requirements.

 

Women require everything I do, plus so much more.

 

The difference between you and ThaWholigan is that you never ever had his optimism and the belief that you are responsible for your own happiness.

You have no idea what I was like at his age.

 

I joined this forum at 27. I believe he is in his early 20's. A few more years of failure and he'll be just about as bitter as I am. Of course I truly hope it does not happen to him.

Your social skills will not improve with a girlfriend. You develop good social skills by interacting with people and pushing the borders of your comfort zone inch by inch, cm by cm.

I strongly disagree with you there. As I said earlier, simply be talking and interacting with a GF on a regular basis, my social skills will improve. And since most women have an active social life, I would be around her friends and there's even more social interaction.

 

Something else that I didn't bring up. By being with a GF, I'll learn how to actually communicate with a girl in a man/woman way and not just as a gender neutral being. Being friends with women is just the tip of the iceberg and I need to ram full-force into the thing.

[udolipixie]

I would love to make a wager on that if it were possible.

 

I've been paying attention to the taller men who are still having trouble with women and it's obvious to me why they are still single. For one, a few of the guys put in less effort with women than I do. Some other guys have very poor social skills and have some disability or an anxiety disorder.

 

I don't have any of that.

Didn't you state you have sub-par confidence, self-esteem, communication, and social skills?

 

Or is it semantics pooror below average being no relation to very poor?

 

If I was taller, I wouldn't have any self-esteem or confidence issues so those are instantly ruled out.

So all your issues stem from your height?

 

None of it from projection, your life, family, friends, etc?

 

Then having slightly lower than average social skills would be canceled out by women being physically attracted to me.

Some women as I'm presuming the face and body type would still be the same.

 

I think my problem, is that I'm basically expecting a woman to have as low standards as I do. But women obviously have far more requirements.

I think the problem is that you expect women who fit your standards to have the standards you'd like.

 

There are women who have low standards you'd like however most likely you wouldn't like the women.

[PlumPrincess]

I've been paying attention to the taller men who are still having trouble with women and it's obvious to me why they are still single. For one, a few of the guys put in less effort with women than I do. Some other guys have very poor social skills and have some disability or an anxiety disorder.

I'm curious to see what those guys have to say about this.

 

If I was taller, I wouldn't have any self-esteem or confidence issues so those are instantly ruled out. Then having slightly lower than average social skills would be canceled out by women being physically attracted to me. And with enough time interacting with a GF and possibly her friends, my social skills would catch up as well. More on that part later.

Yes my standards are normal. That doesn't change just because of who I am.

You bear a striking resemblance to this other poster, "guy-who-doesn't-talk-a-lot." He doesn't understand that his standards are too high for someone like him. If you're a 1, then getting an 6 or 7 is going to be really difficult.

 

When it comes to women, below average just means she's one of the few ugly girls that exist, or she's fat. For me, a woman's social skills are not important.

Let me whisper a secret in your ear - TO WOMEN, SOCIAL SKILLS MATTER!!

 

I think my problem, is that I'm basically expecting a woman to have as low standards as I do. But women obviously have far more requirements.

Now you think your standards are low and not average?

 

I strongly disagree with you there. As I said earlier, simply be talking and interacting with a GF on a regular basis, my social skills will improve. And since most women have an active social life, I would be around her friends and there's even more social interaction.

 

Something else that I didn't bring up. By being with a GF, I'll learn how to actually communicate with a girl in a man/woman way and not just as a gender neutral being. Being friends with women is just the tip of the iceberg and I need to ram full-force into the thing.

Really, you're starting to sound scary.

[somedude81]

Something tells me I'm putting in way too much time and effort into replying to people here. There really isn't any point in trying to explain myself when all I have is a pack of dogs waiting to tear apart everything I say.

 

Peace out everybody.

[Jane2011]

lol, I can't imagine ever saying (or thinking) that social skills don't matter to me.

 

If they're not #1 (and they might be), they're at least top 5 in requirements, easy.

[zengirl]

lol, I can't imagine ever saying (or thinking) that social skills don't matter to me.

 

If they're not #1 (and they might be), they're at least top 5 in requirements, easy.

 

Right. Dating is a social process.

[Jane2011]

I think, though, he might be referring to social skills in terms of being "cool" or "impressive" (or not).

 

When I think of social skills, I'm thinking of a guy being uncouth or not, or embarrassing or not.

[somedude81]

Last thing I want to say before I drop off.

 

I said, a woman's social skills don't matter to me. I didn't say anything about mine not mattering.

 

I don't care how outgoing, or suave a girl is etc. The only thing that matters is that she can communicate and is willing to have fun.

Edited March 26, 2012 by somedude81

[sweetjasmine]

Last thing I want to say before I drop off.

 

I said, a woman's social skills don't matter to me. I didn't say anything about mine not mattering.

 

I don't care how outgoing, or suave a girl is etc. The only thing that matters is that she can communicate and is willing to have fun.

 

Communication is a social skill. Dating is a social interaction, so of course someone's social skills are going to matter.

[somedude81]

Communication is a social skill. Dating is a social interaction, so of course someone's social skills are going to matter.

True, but I think there is more to it than being able to communicate with a partner.

 

When I hear social skills, I think of being able to make friends easily, getting people to like you, not being quiet in group situations, able to start a real conversation with a stranger from nothing etc.

[sweetjasmine]

True, but I think there is more to it than being able to communicate with a partner.

 

When I hear social skills, I think of being able to make friends easily, getting people to like you, not being quiet in group situations etc.

 

I think it includes all of those things. Communication is how you make friends, get people to like you, etc. The better you are at communicating, the better you'll be at making connections with other people.

 

I think social skills are very important when it comes to relationships. Physical attraction means nothing if the person in question has poor social skills and can't interact very well with others.

[serial muse]

Last thing I want to say before I drop off.

 

I said, a woman's social skills don't matter to me. I didn't say anything about mine not mattering.

 

I don't care how outgoing, or suave a girl is etc. The only thing that matters is that she can communicate and is willing to have fun.

 

Yeah, I think this is kind of interesting...because I agree that communicating and being "willing to have fun" is a social skill.

[somedude81]

I think it includes all of those things. Communication is how you make friends, get people to like you, etc. The better you are at communicating, the better you'll be at making connections with other people.

 

I think social skills are very important when it comes to relationships. Physical attraction means nothing if the person in question has poor social skills and can't interact very well with others.

This is where things start to get murky for me.

 

If I'm stuck in a room with a bunch of random guys I've never met before, odds are I'm not going to make friends or connect with any of them. That tells me that I have poor social skills.

 

But put me with a girl, and I can talk to her all day and then odds are we'd both have a good time. Though I do take a little bit to loosen up and get things going. Also for things to work, she needs to not be talking to anybody already. I can't just go up to a group of people, single out a girl and get her attention. I don't like having to compete.

 

Lastly, I have a real hard time turning things flirty or sexual. It's always on a platonic level.

Edited March 26, 2012 by somedude81

[Badsingularity]

Start to work on them?

 

I 'started' when I was in my early 20's forcing myself to be more sociable and confident. It's an every day thing. I've seen counselors, joined sports teams, been to speech therapy, been an active member in campus clubs, taken dance classes, tried to learn a foreign language etc.

 

I've completely changed from who I was 10 years ago, but it's still not enough

 

One thing that you haven't done though, wich happens to be the thing that would get you out of your rut, is face your fears.

 

Face your fears.

 

I wonder if you realize how many times you use the words "fear" and "afraid" in your posts. You use them alot.

 

Face these fears if you want to move foward.

[zengirl]

Last thing I want to say before I drop off.

 

I said, a woman's social skills don't matter to me. I didn't say anything about mine not mattering.

 

I don't care how outgoing, or suave a girl is etc. The only thing that matters is that she can communicate and is willing to have fun.

 

Those are social skills, as others have said. FTR, I think improving your social skills (and they are very much SKILLS and you can consciously improve them with effort and practice) would help your life immensely. Seriously: Make friends. You're never going to be successful in dating without having at least a few friends.

 

True, but I think there is more to it than being able to communicate with a partner.

 

When I hear social skills, I think of being able to make friends easily, getting people to like you, not being quiet in group situations, able to start a real conversation with a stranger from nothing etc.

 

Those are perhaps a certain subset of social skills. You don't have to be wildly extroverted to have social skills or make friends, though. You don't have to be able to make everyone like you (hardly anyone can, really) or crack up a room to have social skills. There's a wide range. However, whatever social skills you have/had are greatly diminishing by the lack of real socialization (friends!) in your life.

[ThaWholigan]

Those are social skills, as others have said. FTR, I think improving your social skills (and they are very much SKILLS and you can consciously improve them with effort and practice) would help your life immensely. Seriously: Make friends. You're never going to be successful in dating without having at least a few friends.

 

 

 

Those are perhaps a certain subset of social skills. You don't have to be wildly extroverted to have social skills or make friends, though. You don't have to be able to make everyone like you (hardly anyone can, really) or crack up a room to have social skills. There's a wide range. However, whatever social skills you have/had are greatly diminishing by the lack of real socialization (friends!) in your life.

I would liken your social skills to a social muscle of sorts that you have to exercise otherwise it gets weak.

[somedude81]

Those are social skills, as others have said. FTR, I think improving your social skills (and they are very much SKILLS and you can consciously improve them with effort and practice) would help your life immensely. Seriously: Make friends. You're never going to be successful in dating without having at least a few friends.

 

 

 

Those are perhaps a certain subset of social skills. You don't have to be wildly extroverted to have social skills or make friends, though. You don't have to be able to make everyone like you (hardly anyone can, really) or crack up a room to have social skills. There's a wide range. However, whatever social skills you have/had are greatly diminishing by the lack of real socialization (friends!) in your life.

Interesting, then I'm probably as not as bad socially as I thought I was.

 

As for making friends, it's rare that I meet guys that I'd actually want to be friends with. The reasons are a bit more than I want to get into in this thread.

[zengirl]

Interesting, then I'm probably as not as bad socially as I thought I was.

 

As for making friends, it's rare that I meet guys that I'd actually want to be friends with. The reasons are a bit more than I want to get into in this thread.

 

Then find female friends where no attraction is involved, but find some friends. A person without friends is MUCH more likely to stay single and to be unhappy in general. This would impact your overall happiness if you could find friends, join groups, and socialize more effectively, which as I said can be quiet and low key as well.

[somedude81]

Then find female friends where no attraction is involved,

Ha. They'd have to be fat girls for me to not become attracted to them.

 

And yeah, it sounds kind of goofy to seek out overweight girls for friends.

 

but find some friends. A person without friends is MUCH more likely to stay single and to be unhappy in general. This would impact your overall happiness if you could find friends, join groups, and socialize more effectively, which as I said can be quiet and low key as well.

Joining groups, socializing is something I've been doing, but I have taken a break since I'm still mourning. I'm almost back to normal, kind of.

[jobaba]

 

But put me with a girl, and I can talk to her all day and then odds are we'd both have a good time. Though I do take a little bit to loosen up and get things going. Also for things to work, she needs to not be talking to anybody already. I can't just go up to a group of people, single out a girl and get her attention. I don't like having to compete.

 

 

It could be that while you think you and her have a real strong connection ... in reality she doesn't really take you seriously as a friend much less a romantic prospect.

 

This has happened to me before. I've thought me and a woman are really chummy and close. But the reality is ... she has so many men in her life that I'm REALLY down low of the totem pole.

[Badsingularity]

I'm almost back to normal, kind of.

 

I'm glad your almost back to normal.

 

Once you are completely back to normal, go out and start facing your fears.

[somedude81]

It could be that while you think you and her have a real strong connection ... in reality she doesn't really take you seriously as a friend much less a romantic prospect.

 

This has happened to me before. I've thought me and a woman are really chummy and close. But the reality is ... she has so many men in her life that I'm REALLY down low of the totem pole.

I don't doubt that for a second.

 

As much as D and I got along and had fun, I know that she had girlfriends she would choose to hang out with over me.

 

It was a really painful feeling knowing that my favorite person, would choose other people over me.

[xxoo]

I don't doubt that for a second.

 

As much as D and I got along and had fun, I know that she had girlfriends she would choose to hang out with over me.

 

It was a really painful feeling knowing that my favorite person, would choose other people over me.

 

That had to hurt

 

You'd think that eventually you'd lose interest in someone who doesn't return your feelings. But even now, you haven't lost interest. With so many women in the world, it is hard to understand why you keep her on a pedestal when she's never returned the favor.

[ThaWholigan]

That had to hurt

 

You'd think that eventually you'd lose interest in someone who doesn't return your feelings. But even now, you haven't lost interest. With so many women in the world, it is hard to understand why you keep her on a pedestal when she's never returned the favor.

You'd think so. I know what he's going through because it happened to me too. I am fortunate I have a modicum of self-awareness and snapped out of it. I still think of her fondly, although that's because we aren't on bad terms.