Worthless

[Itsonlyme66]

No. I don't see why finding the positives is useless for you, or not gonna work.

Honest, I don't.

 

So if one diet doesn't work, try another. try a hair color. SMELL THE FRESH AIR. Pick a flower. Pet a cat or a dog. Grow yourself. You have to get out of this internal hell and externalize yourself. If you don't feel you're good at anything, learn something! Get it to the point of obsession, but go for it. And make it something you have an interest in.

 

I'm telling you. Love WILL FIND YOU when you are not looking for it. Happens every time. Meet people - doesn't matter if it's online or taking a cooking class or whatever.

 

IF YOU WANT TO SUCCEED AT LIFE YOU WILL.

But you have to want to.

 

And you have to believe in yourself! If you don't, who will?

Make your parents proud. It would make them feel great to know their child is happy. Do it for them if you can't do it for yourself. But do it!

[Kamille]

I want advice on how to deal with a life that really doesn't have any positives.

 

I don't see how I could give any advice on that. I'm a creature of hope. I'm afraid any advice I would give, you would find trite or annoying. I nearly died as a kid and my mother struggles with chronic pain. Both experiences give me much respect for the small pleasures in life, beginning with simply being thankful I'm alive.

 

Maybe the only answer to your questions is this: no one here likely has an answer for you. Is that something you can accept about LS?

[Mme. Chaucer]

Okay. I am NOT mocking or bullying you. I want to ask you a straightforward question. This thread has the same trajectory as your others. You post many negative things about you and people come to your aid, as they are able, to tell you positive things about you, which your categorically refute.

 

If it goes on much longer, you may soon express annoyance or anger that people are not "listening" to you.

 

What would your reaction be if people said, "yes, V, clearly every aspect of your life is, in fact, worthless"?

 

Disclaimer: I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT.

 

I think it would be very destructive for you to read that. But you reject everything you receive here.

 

What would be "right" by you?

[Mme. Chaucer]

What I have to offer, as usual, is probably going to be perceived as "bullying" but here goes:

 

Find the beauty around you and the things you have to be grateful for, every single day, no matter what your "feelings" are telling you. Celebrate them and give thanks for them

[Els]

I go to a job I'm only marginally decent at, where I am socially awkward. I go do hobbies that I am awful at. I go hang out with "friends" who dislike me. I come home to an empty apartment. Substitute "apartment" for "parents' house" and "work" for "school" and that has been my entire life. It also looks like that will be the rest of my life.

 

Why do you feel powerless to change any of these? Have you tried (except for the bf bit)?

[CopingGal]

Here are the things you do well, and I don't even know you:

 

1. Express yourself. you did a great job writing this.

2. Spelling! Not one misspell!

 

My point is, there ARE things you do well, or better than the average bear. We ALL have talents. We all have ways of communicating. You have great communication skills. I can tell from reading your post.

 

 

 

We are here for you too! Don't dis yourself so much. You don't deserve it!

 

That is awesome that you took that post and found positive things within it. Great!

[verhrzn]

Okay. I am NOT mocking or bullying you. I want to ask you a straightforward question. This thread has the same trajectory as your others. You post many negative things about you and people come to your aid, as they are able, to tell you positive things about you, which your categorically refute.

 

If it goes on much longer, you may soon express annoyance or anger that people are not "listening" to you.

 

What would your reaction be if people said, "yes, V, clearly every aspect of your life is, in fact, worthless"?

 

Disclaimer: I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT.

 

I think it would be very destructive for you to read that. But you reject everything you receive here.

 

What would be "right" by you?

 

This is not at all a bullying post, so thank you for that.

 

My reaction to someone saying that would probably be "YES, finally, someone acknowledges it! Okay, so how do you deal with that?" That's been my question all along.... how do you deal when there aren't positives? When your life really isn't worth living, but for ethical reasons, you can't put it aside?

 

*Shrugs* It sounds destructive to you because, you have a life worth living. I think that's the fundamental miscommunication. A lot of posters just cannot fathom being in a body and a life that has no intrinsic value.

 

Why do you feel powerless to change any of these? Have you tried (except for the bf bit)?

 

Sure I have. That's why I feel powerless. I've taken cooking classes, I've read countless books on how to act normal socially, and tried to strike up conversations at parties and Meet-Ups, I've really dedicated myself to some of my hobbies.... nothing. There is just something fundamentally WRONG about me. Ya know how there are quick learners, and people who are just charismatic? It's like I'm the opposite... I can't learn new skills to save anything, and I have anti-charisma. Most people aren't un-friendly, but they meet me and instantly forget me, or they act awkward around me.

 

*Sigh* I'm just a freak. I suppose it's worthless to try to uncover answers on how to deal with that, if I'm the only one who is like me. At least kids with autism are amazing at math and things... It's like I got the short end of the stick in all departments.

 

Which I guess also means it's worthless to talk about it. But talking about it is my only coping mechanism. If I can't talk about it, what can I do?

[Kamille]

Which I guess also means it's worthless to talk about it. But talking about it is my only coping mechanism. If I can't talk about it, what can I do?

 

Of course you're allowed to talk about it. What's out of your control is how people respond to the questions you ask. Many of us cope with the challenges we face by focusing on the small things in life that give us pleasure or that makes us feel good about ourselves. Many have had breakthrough moments when we challenged the negative beliefs we held about ourselves. That's probably one of the reasons you get the type of advice you do.

 

But you do control how you respond to our advice.

 

Which leads me back to this question:

 

 

My reaction to someone saying that would probably be "YES, finally, someone acknowledges it! Okay, so how do you deal with that?" That's been my question all along.... how do you deal when there aren't positives? When your life really isn't worth living, but for ethical reasons, you can't put it aside?

 

I don't think anyone here has that answer for you. Is this something you can accept about LS?

 

I'm thinking your interactions with LS could be less emotionally charged if you realized we don't have, nor should we be expected to have, all the answers.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Kamille

[verhrzn]

I don't think anyone here has that answer for you. Is this something you can accept about LS?

 

I'm thinking your interactions with LS could be less emotionally charged if you realized we don't have, nor should we be expected to have, all the answers.

 

I don't mind people not having the answer, so long as people don't mind if I keep asking the question (because someone might, someday, have an answer.)

[Kamille]

I don't mind people not having the answer, so long as people don't mind if I keep asking the question (because someone might, someday, have an answer.)

 

As we know from past experiences, some of the posters who spend energy trying to help you will get frustrated when they see you asking the same question. How will you deal with their reaction?

[stillafool]

My life is utterly worthless. I was born with awful genetics... not only am I unattractive (and get to bear the brunt of society's scorn of ugliness), but born without talent as well. I am not good at a single thing. Cooking, art, music, sports... I've tried tons of hobbies and failed horribly at all of them. If I try really, really hard, I can be sort of mediocre.

 

I am passionate about things, but I am also bad at them, which decreases my passion in them. I can't even enjoy something as simple as a book anymore, because I'm constantly thinking about how amazing the author is, and how I could never come close.

 

I work in a job that pays decent, but I am (again) only marginally decent at. I am utterly mediocre. I can't go back to school, because I could never afford it; loans are killing me as it is. Grad schools have rejected me because my grades from undergraduate are too low (graduated with a 3.4 GPA), and there aren't any fields in those jobs anyway.

 

My life is utterly worthless. My existence is nothing but mediocrity and misery. But I lack the courage to just end it. I know the only people who would care are my parents... maybe if I wait until they're dead, I won't be such a coward.

 

I can't afford therapy. I can barely afford to keep myself alive. I wish something would just strike me dead. Until then I have to struggle through this worthlessness. Why was I born in the first place-just to suffer? Just to take up space and air? What's the point?

 

Oh Sweetie! I'm so sorry you are feeling like this. ((hugs)). Are there any clinics in your area where you could get free therapy? You can't continue on like this V, you have to pull yourself up.

[worldgonewrong]

You are looking for your self-worth within the eyes of others. Don't do that.

 

Believe in yourself. It starts with you. If you tear yourself down, and make yourself look like 2nd-banana, then people reflect that self-generated negativity back at you in strange ways.

 

You're beautiful, you have potential, and this Life is yours for the taking. And I guarantee you, somewhere your Future Lover is awaiting you. You just don't know it yet.

[verhrzn]

As we know from past experiences, some of the posters who spend energy trying to help you will get frustrated when they see you asking the same question. How will you deal with their reaction?

 

*Shrugs* Got me. Same thing I've always done... tell them they're welcome to ignore me. I mean, am I responsible for other people's feelings and reactions? I mean.... yes, they're spending this energy, but they're spending energy towards something they feel, not towards what I feel. What's the best way to put it.... It's as if I came to the forum asking how to build a computer, and people posted instructions on how to build a car. I keep telling them, no, I need a computer, and they get frustrated with me because a car is better, why do I need a computer?

 

Long story short, I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to do when people get frustrated with me asking the same question. I mean... just ignore me. What's the problem with that?

 

Oh Sweetie! I'm so sorry you are feeling like this. ((hugs)). Are there any clinics in your area where you could get free therapy? You can't continue on like this V, you have to pull yourself up.

 

Because I have insurance and an income above a certain level, free clinics can't assist me. But my health insurance doesn't cover therapy, and it's way too expensive out of pocket. Seriously, the US Health Care System is majorly, majorly messed up when it comes to mental health issues. (Well, and everything else as well, but particularly mental health issues.)

 

You are looking for your self-worth within the eyes of others. Don't do that.

 

Believe in yourself. It starts with you. If you tear yourself down, and make yourself look like 2nd-banana, then people reflect that self-generated negativity back at you in strange ways.

 

You're beautiful, you have potential, and this Life is yours for the taking. And I guarantee you, somewhere your Future Lover is awaiting you. You just don't know it yet.

 

This is something I've never gotten. Why shouldn't we compare ourselves to others? Why shouldn't we look at our self-worth through the eyes of others?

 

The world is constantly comparing us. Look at our language. "Tall-er." "Thin-er." All these -ers and -ests. You get a job because you're the best candidate. You get into a school because your grades were better than someone else's. You get a relationship because that person decided to date you above all others.

 

There IS a finite amount of resources in the world. We can't all have a job we love that pays fantastic. We can't all have a partner. It's a lovely concept on paper... like Marxism... but it just isn't realistic.

 

To succeed in the world, shouldn't we be realistic? And shouldn't we look at ourselves as others see us, because we live in the world? None of us are truly self-sustaining individuals; we need others to give us things (love, money, food, etc.) Thus, if our self-image is very off from how others see us, we risk alienating and losing those resources.

 

For example, if you're a b*tch, but tell yourself you're an amazing individual (because you don't care what other people think!), you might be screwing yourself out of potential jobs/relationships/opportunities.

 

So "don't compare yourself" "don't care what others think" is a great concept, but it doesn't seem very practical.

[carhill]

You evidently feel your life is worthless. That's valid. Examine it. Worthless by what standard? To who? What is 'worth' anyway?

 

Call your local universities/colleges and ask if their psych departments have free counseling services. My bet is a psych student would love to explore these nuances with you. Perhaps you could both learn something.

 

As an example, my exW and I were getting nowhere on our D until the court suggested the free mediation services of a local law school. A 3L, a young man with a bright future, put it all together and got us on the right path. Best value I ever saw in my M.

 

Most of us, if we're human, at some point in our lives, have moments, hours, days, weeks, months, etc when we feel 'worthless'. You're not alone. Now is evidently your time. Learn from it. Good luck.

[Kamille]

*Shrugs* Got me. Same thing I've always done... tell them they're welcome to ignore me. I mean, am I responsible for other people's feelings and reactions? I mean.... yes, they're spending this energy, but they're spending energy towards something they feel, not towards what I feel. What's the best way to put it.... It's as if I came to the forum asking how to build a computer, and people posted instructions on how to build a car. I keep telling them, no, I need a computer, and they get frustrated with me because a car is better, why do I need a computer?

 

Long story short, I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to do when people get frustrated with me asking the same question. I mean... just ignore me. What's the problem with that?

 

I agree. You're not responsible for how they react. Nor, however, can you control it. That means you can suggest they ignore you, but that doesn't mean they will.

 

I don't know if there's anything you're supposed to do when people get frustrated. So I'm guessing the best you can do is figure out your own emotional response to these circular discussion. How does it make you feel when they/we get frustrated?

[verhrzn]

I agree. You're not responsible for how they react. Nor, however, can you control it. That means you can suggest they ignore you, but that doesn't mean they will.

 

I don't know if there's anything you're supposed to do when people get frustrated. So I'm guessing the best you can do is figure out your own emotional response to these circular discussion. How does it make you feel when they/we get frustrated?

 

... Confused. I wonder where the major miscommunication comes from. I think," Are they really not getting what I'm saying? How can I explain it better?" *Shrugs* Guess that's where the argumentative comes from.

[silvermane187]

You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost pile.

The sooner you accept this and accept what you are the sooner you will stop feeling so bad about yourself. That good looking girl who is talented and rich? Nothing she ever does will matter in 100 years. Stop comparing yourself to what society expects from people. Just accept yourself and survive. Find little things that make you happy. That's all that will really matter in the end.

[CopingGal]

Hi. Not all health insurances cover mental health. I know that. But there are sliding scale programs for people who don't have coverage. Make sure you tell them "My insurance does not cover mental health." There may be some places you are not aware of. If you pm me and tell my your city, maybe I can help you. If not, just start calling the universities in your area, called Volunteers of America, Call Lutheran Health Services, call Social Services. Tell them all your insurance doesn't cover mental health insurance. Call Catholic Charities. Some of these organizations are religious, but they do not counsel in a religious manner.

 

If I let other people decide what I should think of myself all the time, I would never get out of bed. I have been exposed to some very mean, selfish people. After being with my ex, my self-esteem was near the floor. Screw him. You have to want to fight for yourself. I looks like it's gonna be hard without meds. Go to a free clinic or see a doctor who is not free but arrange payments. You need to get on some anti-depressants, I think. But I'm not a doctor. You need to tell a doctor how you have been feeling.

[Kamille]

... Confused. I wonder where the major miscommunication comes from. I think," Are they really not getting what I'm saying? How can I explain it better?" *Shrugs* Guess that's where the argumentative comes from.

 

I know I'm asking a lot of questions V. I'm trying to understand - certainly, I'm getting a better sense for how you approach this forum. Thank you for your candid answers. Of course, I have another question .

 

Why do you think it's so hard for us/them to understand what you're asking? (And I'm asking you to think about what it could be about us that makes it hard for us to understand).

[Eddie Edirol]

... Confused. I wonder where the major miscommunication comes from. I think," Are they really not getting what I'm saying? How can I explain it better?" *Shrugs* Guess that's where the argumentative comes from.

 

It seems to be all in how you ask the questions. Your questions are way too vague. No one can answer a question like "How do you live when youre worthless." Theres no answer for that.

 

For instance, "How do I keep going when theres nothing to live for, how do you deal when there aren't positives?" isnt the way to ask the question you want in a support forum. People will see "nothing to live for" and "no positives" instantly go into "You have everything to live for" mode.

 

So if you want actual answers, you have to avoid peppering your posts with things like "I'm unnattractive and untalented and Im waiting to die". We already understand you feel this way about yourself, now its time to get deeper down into what you want to know. So better questions would be.....

"how long does it take to learn to cook well?" or

"How long does it take to get good at socializing?"

 

When it comes to socializing, you would get even more specific.

 

I think you need to sit down and before posting here, think about how you would try to start accomplishing these things and only ask about the specifics, thats the only way people can help you here.

 

Also, you cant compare yourself to other people when youre starting from zero. Before I learned how to dress and socialize, I had to look at specific things. I had no one to help me. What style do I want to look good? What will look good on me? Everyone had to do it at some point. Then I went out shopping and its still an ongoing process, it doesnt come within a couple months. Im talking 6 years later.

 

Then I had to learn how to deal with women. I looked up PUA forums, other resources, found out what women really want and like, then it took a couple years to hash that out. But I had no friends who could help me at the time, I had to learn it all myself, and do field testing with no help, but without comparing myself to others, until I achieved a certain level that was comparable to others.

 

 

Do you see what Im saying?

[verhrzn]

I know I'm asking a lot of questions V. I'm trying to understand - certainly, I'm getting a better sense for how you approach this forum. Thank you for your candid answers. Of course, I have another question .

 

Why do you think it's so hard for us/them to understand what you're asking? (And I'm asking you to think about what it could be about us that makes it hard for us to understand).

 

Because I'm a freak.

 

That's really the short end of it. I think people have a hard time understanding because my experience is so outside of anything they've seen or heard or experienced themselves. This is gonna get all anthro for a second, to fair warning:

 

Physical attractiveness has been tied, for centuries, to femininity. Even today, how we look defines us as a woman to a huge extent. Girls are raised from a very young age to tie their identity to their appearance. And the more attractive a woman is, the better her identity. Unattractiveness is not only undesirable, but supposedly SAYS something about you as a woman.

 

If you are an unattractive woman, that information comes with baggage about who you are as a person: you are lazy (it's really just make-up and good hygiene!), you are "less fun", you are bitter/jealous of attractive women., etc. But most of all, if you're an unattractive woman... you are not a woman. A fundamental part of your femininity has been denied.

 

And yet, you have to still bare the brunt of anger at women. You get all of the downsides of being a woman, but none of the benefits, since a lot of the benefits come tied up in the idea that a woman IS her body.

 

In the face of this, I think a lot of women take two options: they either work their damndest to BE attractive, and tell themselves that they are attractive, in order to avoid all of the psychological damage and baggage. Kind of like... Stockholm Syndrome. OR, if a woman DOES admit to herself she is unattractive, her reaction is to accept it meekly, to make herself invisible. By doing she, she can at least retain some femininity, because "passiveness" (getting along to get along, submissive) is seen as a desirable female trait.

 

Here's where I am a freak. I neither back away from the harsh realities that being an unattractive woman SUCKS, nor do I passively accept it.

 

In fact, I'd go further and say that on top of being offensive because I am an unattractive woman (so I offend the law of nature, which should be that all females are beautiful), I am also masculine in my personality. I argue, I express negative emotions. I don't "play nice to get along."

 

I think those two factors.... being an unattractive woman, and embracing my masculine tendencies.... makes it very hard for other women to relate to me, because not surprisingly, they want to be feminine. The path I have chosen (or has been chosen for me, depending on how much emphasis you put on nature/nurture) is not only psychologically difficult, but socially difficult.

 

Long story short, I think a lot of people don't understand because they have never experienced life as an unattractive woman with a masculine personality.

[verhrzn]

So if you want actual answers, you have to avoid peppering your posts with things like "I'm unnattractive and untalented and Im waiting to die". We already understand you feel this way about yourself, now its time to get deeper down into what you want to know. So better questions would be.....

"how long does it take to learn to cook well?" or

"How long does it take to get good at socializing?"

 

When it comes to socializing, you would get even more specific.

 

I think you need to sit down and before posting here, think about how you would try to start accomplishing these things and only ask about the specifics, thats the only way people can help you here.

 

Do you see what Im saying?

 

I do, though I'm really not sure why I should bother trying to accomplish these things when I've already tried lots and lots of ways. Is there a more accurate way to ask "how to give up"?

[Eddie Edirol]

I do, though I'm really not sure why I should bother trying to accomplish these things when I've already tried lots and lots of ways. Is there a more accurate way to ask "how to give up"?

 

Well, yes there is. But the question isnt "how to give up", its more "what else can I do?" I mean how much time did you actually spend on these hobbies before giving up? Was it years on each one? 8 months? Do you even have enough patience to practice these things?

 

Or even better, what do you want to give up on, specifically? Not just life...

[Kamille]

Because I'm a freak.

 

That's really the short end of it. I think people have a hard time understanding because my experience is so outside of anything they've seen or heard or experienced themselves. This is gonna get all anthro for a second, to fair warning:

 

Love anthro so bring it on! (This is where I genuinely think you're smart and analytical)

 

Okay, so you feel part of the misunderstanding resides in who you are, and our inability to understand your struggles.

 

Where you go anthro, I go interactionist :

 

We all know that a miscommunication involves two sets of interlocutors, each with their set of characteristics that cause the misunderstanding. You have an analysis of the ways in who you are contributes to being misunderstood. But what about LS's posters motivations to respond to you and our contribution to the misunderstanding?

 

I think Eddie Eddirol has enounciated some of the ways in which the misunderstanding happens from our end.

 

Yesterday, I offered the hypothesis that we tend to offer the kind of advice we do because we're reacting to your pain. Perhaps not in way you find helpful, but in ways we hope will help.

 

What about you... Why do you think LS reacts the way it does? Don't make this answer about your personal characteristics... Let's figure out who your interlocutors are. This way, you can be better equipped to respond to us - and guide us in supporting you.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Well, I'll give you advice, take it or leave it.

 

This is coming from a person who used to be a heroin addict with a life not worth living; a person who has done bad things that affected other people, not only myself, and also who has had demonic (at times) issues with depression.

 

"Act as if."

 

Yep.

 

Sounds like pablum, but there you have it.

 

"Act as if" your life is NOT worthless, even though you don't believe that. "Act as if" you FEEL gratitude for some of your blessings even though you don't feel it. (This is not a dig at you for being ungrateful. I think it's impossible to feel grateful when you are in such a dark place. But intellectually you can find many things worthy of gratitude in your life.)

 

Also, make a commitment to devote specified, organized time to do for others. I mean, work. Not taking clothes to the goodwill. Even if you hate it.

 

Fake it for at least some of the time every day. This will at least give you a little time in the "positive" rather than the "negative."

 

Yes, these things sound like stupid cliches. I would have bitterly rejected them until I was desperate enough to try.

 

Fortunately for me (ironically) the addiction part of my problem lead me to a 12 step program where there was group support for this stuff, so I was not in the position to have to undertake it by myself. I don't know if I could or would have been able to do that.