We need more common sense...

[The Blue Knight]

maybe sex was just as much at the forefront 100 years ago, but there didn't seem to be the need for instant gratification that there is today...

 

like the old saying "the medium is the message"....today, the medium would be instant streaming of whatever you want 24 hours a day...what is the message there? That gratification should be instant, why wait? If we are not absolutely 100% ecstatic at this particular point in time...there's something wrong and rather than see that the issue may be within ourselves, we re told to seek all our validation and gratification externally ( and i'm not THAT old...I remember when things were different...we were taught restraint)

 

about the vietnnam era...I understand that those who did not approve of the "status quo" really wanted to make things better and cause a change...show the hypocrisy...but there are more than a few times when the consequences of third "open attitude" came home to roost...I have my own personal experience with this...

 

The 60s counterculture was just an example of today's occupy wall street crazies. I'm not completely down with everything about the status quo, and I'm not in love with all aspects of corporate america, and at times capitialism has it's issues. BUT, it's still a great system and the U.S. became a great nation largely because of those things.

 

I just chose to exist within most of the rules of the status quo rather than run around griping and complaining about how "unfair" the world is. Grow up for Pete's sake! The world isn't fair and never will be. You learn to deal with it and the adversity of everyday life. It's called maturity.

 

With regard to the sex issue . . . sex has always been a driving force in humans. Look at the Bible and the major screw ups by some of the most Godly of men. Most of it was about . . . yep . . . sex!

 

That's not really the point. the point is that sex without responsibility or consequences is what has changed dramatically since the 60s.

 

Up to that point a woman didn't want to risk pregnancy out of wedlock because it brought shame to her and her family. Today . . . people on welfare are popping out kids left and right and there are no repercussions and no stigma attached to the behavior. In fact, we're rewarding it will more financial child care benefits, courtesy of the tax payer.

 

Frozen, you're dead on about the instant gratification. We now live in this fast food society where it all has to be on our laps when we need it . . . including the need to feel good ALL the time. Take a look at how many Americans are on prescription drugs which alter their moods and not much more has to be said.

[Steen719]

First of all I'm 30 something, closer to 40. So the younger people I refer to specifically are the 20 something's. The only reason I can quote Shakespeare is because I read. I always have been a reader. But if that was the only thing that had changed, I wouldn't complain so much. Not only do they not read the classics (which I believe is a serious education on it's own) but they don't read newspapers either.

 

If as you think the younger generation has opted for technology instead of the old fashioned things like reading and are therefore smarter, you're wrong. My main business is IT related. They don't know anything about computers that I don't know. My father uses all sorts of gadgets, apps, programs... He is 60 something. Who is better off? The one's who are technologically smarter or the one's who have both a reading culture and have technological knowledge? There's more to life than computers, you know.

 

To me the lack of knowledge is deliberate. There is no immediate gratification to be obtained from reading Dickens, so they don't. There is no fun in reading the news everyday be it in newspapers or online. It all goes back to the selfish attitude that is so pervasive in our minds. But to their credit, the younger generation is not to blame. We are the same...my generations that is.

 

I teach online for a University. I can tell you that just in the 6 years that I have been teaching, I have seen a decline in student's ability to write a grammatically correct, complete sentence. Many posts are filled with grammatical errors and misspelled words, even though there is spell check. They could tell you how to program anything into an I-Phone, though. Now, before CS says this, this is in part a result of school today, but it is also due to the fact that they use shortened typing in texts, etc. If you think this is not important, try getting a job that requires you write something. The hiring personnel will take someone who can write a complete sentence over someone who cannot. Also, most of the time, the students who have relevant knowledge to share in class are often the older students (30's and above). The students who do not write well and who do not offer much in terms of knowledge get angry when they are corrected or not given what they think they earned. They are so used to getting good grades for poor work. So, as findingnemo said, it is partly our fault.

 

I find myself looking at posts here and cringing when I see how some are written and how spell check is not used when a misspelled word is underlined in red!!!!!! LOL:lmao::lmao:

[beenburned]

Steen,

 

My granddaughter(8), pointed out to me just today, about all the kid's commercials where they deliberately misspelled words to make the product look cooler.

 

She said" I sure hope they know that is NOT the way to spell light"!

[The Blue Knight]

TBK, I know exactly what you're talking about. People know more about Kim Kardashian's drive-by M and the current squabbles than about what's going on in the Middle East. They have no idea that the world is once again on the brink of war. War is far far away and Kim is right there on their TV.

 

I must say that I think this comes down to the new emphasis on the self. What many of us have been saying has changed is that people are too selfish these days to give a hoot what's going on with others.

 

War in Afghanistan? Who cares? Who knows? They will only find out if it is a sensational story like a US Marine going nuts and murdering a whole family. The details of how he came to be there, what he was doing there are irrelevant. Our news organizations do try sometimes to give us information but if they get into very serious topics, I'm afraid they'll lose viewers. So they too get on the bandwagon of "trashy" news.

 

Ask people who "Salman Rushdie" is and they will be blank. The other day I was having a discussion with some 20 something year olds at university. I quoted Marcellus in Shakespeare's Hamlet and said "Something is rotten in...Denmark". I was referring to the idea that corruption is rife but that it starts with the leaders in my country. They looked at me for a bit and then asked, "What happened in Denmark?":lmao::lmao:

 

We have a problem in America with celebrity worship and it makes me ill. Whitney Houston is a perfect example. Abuses drugs for years. Foul mouth. Poor personal decision-making for years. Hung with a wife-beating husband even after countless abuses. But we practically fall apart as a nation over her death.

 

I'd rather see a tribute paid to the Americans losing their lives in the war on terror each day. Those individuals have done something with their lives, and they are far too often overlooked in lieu of someone like Whitney Houston.

[The Blue Knight]

I teach online for a University. I can tell you that just in the 6 years that I have been teaching, I have seen a decline in student's ability to write a grammatically correct, complete sentence. Many posts are filled with grammatical errors and misspelled words, even though there is spell check. They could tell you how to program anything into an I-Phone, though. Now, before CS says this, this is in part a result of school today, but it is also due to the fact that they use shortened typing in texts, etc. If you think this is not important, try getting a job that requires you write something. The hiring personnel will take someone who can write a complete sentence over someone who cannot. Also, most of the time, the students who have relevant knowledge to share in class are often the older students (30's and above). The students who do not write well and who do not offer much in terms of knowledge get angry when they are corrected or not given what they think they earned. They are so used to getting good grades for poor work. So, as findingnemo said, it is partly our fault.

 

I find myself looking at posts here and cringing when I see how some are written and how spell check is not used when a misspelled word is underlined in red!!!!!! LOL:lmao::lmao:

I agree with you Steen. I used to take written statements from victims and witnesses. The grammar and sentence structure was so awful at times, we finally switched over to taped statements. Public high schools no longer challenge these kids with anything really deep. If you attend class and put in a half-hearted effort you'll graduate without any problem. You'll still be stupid, but you'll have a diploma.

[StoneCold]

First of all I'm 30 something, closer to 40. So the younger people I refer to specifically are the 20 something's. The only reason I can quote Shakespeare is because I read. I always have been a reader. But if that was the only thing that had changed, I wouldn't complain so much. Not only do they not read the classics (which I believe is a serious education on it's own) but they don't read newspapers either.

 

If as you think the younger generation has opted for technology instead of the old fashioned things like reading and are therefore smarter, you're wrong. My main business is IT related. They don't know anything about computers that I don't know. My father uses all sorts of gadgets, apps, programs... He is 60 something. Who is better off? The one's who are technologically smarter or the one's who have both a reading culture and have technological knowledge? There's more to life than computers, you know.

 

To me the lack of knowledge is deliberate. There is no immediate gratification to be obtained from reading Dickens, so they don't. There is no fun in reading the news everyday be it in newspapers or online. It all goes back to the selfish attitude that is so pervasive in our minds. But to their credit, the younger generation is not to blame. We are the same...my generations that is.

 

I'm late 30s too and I'm referring to the 20's as well...

 

If you think they dont read you are wrong.... they may not physically be into books as much... but many still are. They get their information in electronic format for the most part so just because you dont see them with physical books doesnt mean they arent taking information in. Do you actually talk to these kids? and I dont just mean passing conversation ending with you dismissing them...I mean actually talk to them....you'd be surprised what they actually do know... who knows maybe thy are being just as dismissive of you as you are of them so you never really know what they actually are aprised of. I've seen it...they'll blow off people that take that attitude with them (cant say I blame them) and leave thee people thinking "nobody's home".... meanwhile thats not the case at all

 

Just because you like Shakespear (I hated Shakespear...what a waste of time) and Dickens or any other classics doesnt make you any more "knowledgable" in general...it proves absolutely nothing.... aside from maybe that you like the classics

 

You can argue this point till the cows come home but you realize that what your saying is no different than what the generations were saying before from since the begining of time... of course back then we lived to the ripe old age of 35 and galloped around on horses as our only means of transportation (other than foot).... and everytime the out going generation was wrong....everytime... yes....they are smarter and this is why 50 years from now we'll be so much more ahead than we are now.

 

 

It all gets down to not only a lack of but also an unwillingness to understand

Edited April 3, 2012 by StoneCold

[The Blue Knight]

I'm late 30s too and I'm referring to the 20's as well...

 

If you think they dont read you are wrong.... they may not physically be into books as much... but many still are. They get their information in electronic format for the most part so just because you dont see them with physical books doesnt mean they arent taking information in. Do you actually talk to these kids? and I dont just mean passing conversation ending with you dismissing them...I mean actually talk to them....you'd be surprised what they actually do know...

 

Just because you like Shakespear (I hated Shakespear...what a waste of time) and Dickens or any other classics doesnt make you any more "knowledgable" in general...it proves absolutely nothing.... aside from maybe that you like the classics

 

You can argue this point till the cows come home but you realize that what your saying is no different than what the generations were saying before from since the begining of time... of course back then we lived to the ripe old age of 35 and galloped around on horses as our only means of transportation (other than foot).... and everytime the out going generation was wrong....everytime... yes....they are smarter and this is why 50 years from now we'll be so much more ahead than we are now.

 

It all gets down to not only a lack of but also an unwillingness to understand

 

Maybe a better way of saying it then SC is people today in their teens and twenties, and even into their thirties strike me as shallow and ill-informed about the world around them. They just lack depth. And of course there are exceptions in the older age groups as well. I attribute a lot of it to the "video game generation" personally. Sad waste of time in my opinion. Heck, I feel guilty if I'm on loveshack more than 60 minutes a day.

[StoneCold]

Maybe a better way of saying it then SC is people today in their teens and twenties, and even into their thirties strike me as shallow and ill-informed about the world around them. They just lack depth. And of course there are exceptions in the older age groups as well. I attribute a lot of it to the "video game generation" personally. Sad waste of time in my opinion. Heck, I feel guilty if I'm on loveshack more than 60 minutes a day.

 

 

You'd be surprised TBK... they have far more depth than you think; they just arent comfortable opening up to the older generations (you being 5-O certainly doesnt help either lol).... once they open up you'll see a lot...and what thy dont know, they'll seek advice on...of course they have to "trust" you.

 

I dont know why but young people like me lol (maybe its because I'm young looking and young at heart)... they open up to me quite a bit and many are quite impressive

[The Blue Knight]

You'd be surprised TBK... they have far more depth than you think; they just arent comfortable opening up to the older generations (you being 5-O certainly doesnt help either lol).... once they open up you'll see a lot...and what thy dont know, they'll seek advice on...of course they have to "trust" you.

 

I dont know why but young people like me lol (maybe its because I'm young looking and young at heart)... they open up to me quite a bit and many are quite impressive

I have a good relationship with young people SC. I have older kids in their 20s and some teens, and all of their friends can open up to me without much problem. I also have a good relationship with young people on the job. As long as they are honest, I'm honest, and we get along fine. I don't wear the cop thing on my sleeve. People know me as they knew me before the job. It hasn't changed me. It does change some guys, but not me. My values, attitudes, and beliefs were conservative before the job, and all the job has done is reinforced what I believed prior too.

 

I attribute most of it to my faith keeping me grounded.

[frozensprouts]

a brief point about what our kids arearen't being taught...

 

my kids are in gardes 3, 6 and 8, and haven't learned cursive writing yet...apparently, it's "optional" in the curriculum, and there isn't enough time so it doesn't get taught...I'd like to know what is taking up all the time in their days...it sure isn't math, reading or science...

 

back on topic...

I think too that our attention spans are getting shorter, in all areas, not just relationships...maybe all the "instant" forms of technology are somehow rewiring our brains to respond differently to stimuli than they used to...

 

just a thought

[findingnemo]

I think our attention spans are still quite good. It's just that we now CHOOSE what we should concentrate on and leave out things that were kind of standard in the past.

 

When I was in school in Europe and the US, I was constantly frustrated by references in conversations to movies and their characters. Take Breakfast at Tiffany's. I hadn't seen the movie and was clueless when someone talked about what a classic it was. Curiosity made me watch it. I do think that some things should die with certain generations though.

 

Others are simply too important to miss. But it is important to be well rounded in knowledge. Learning to play an instrument will not make most people rich. Playing a sport, taking up ballet or art. These things teach discipline. These subjects give you knowledge about something that's not practical. I did Maths to an advanced level. I knew I'd never be a scientist and that most of the things I learned would have no practical application for me. All the same, I mastered Maths...and I'm better for it. It made my study in Economics much easier than for those who didn't have the same background. When the global crisis occurred, I instantly understood what credit default swaps and derivatives meant. Not that I can do anything about it. It's just good to be able to understand things. To me it's a measure of intelligence.

[findingnemo]

Back on topic...

 

So if as FS says it's about what we are paying attention to...then on the issue of M, we are no longer taking it as seriously as past generations. Whether this is because it is easier to get a D or not, I don't know. I just think that the new cavalier attitude towards M fails to take into account that heartbreak is still as painful as ever.

 

A spouse who denies the other sex and expects the M to continue, is just as bad as the spouse who cheats. They are both violating the vows they made and are both causing tremendous heartache. They are both taking the other person for granted in my book. It's just that a cheater once caught is obvious to outsiders where the the one who denies sex is usually protected by the secrecy surrounding their actions. The cavalier attitude is responsible for a multitude of sins committed by married people that lead to bad Ms. Cheating is just one of many. But generally I think all the sins stem from being selfish, from a new emphasis on the self.

[StoneCold]

.I'd like to know what is taking up all the time in their days...

 

This is what parent - teacher meetings are for...

 

ask and you shall receive

 

 

 

......not that cursive writting is of any significance or importance whatsoever..... there actually is a method to the madness of the education system (for the most part)

[frozensprouts]

This is what parent - teacher meetings are for...

 

ask and you shall receive

 

 

 

......not that cursive writting is of any significance or importance whatsoever..... there actually is a method to the madness of the education system (for the most part)

 

 

StoneCold,

I spend time every day at their schools, have filled out , signed, and actioned more educational plans than i care to remember, and have talked to their teachers about it...

 

have been told by their teachers ( who don't like that the kids don't learn cursive writing) that it is curriculum optional, but because of time constraints, it isn't taught...and here, parent teacher nights are now "student led conferences"....supposed to be better for the students, but, well, I think they don't accomplish much. ( I'm beginning to think that a lot of their curriculum time is spent learning french....especially in grade 5 ( early intensive french...what a joke!)

 

I know from seeing the kids in school that even at an early age, they are being bombarded with the notion of instant gratification...even in school, which used to be a haven from that sort of thing...but the good thing is that parents have the power to somewhat counter act that, and teach our kids the value of the things that are important, patience, kindness, respect for others, etc....and they have a lot to teach us too.

Edited April 4, 2012 by frozensprouts

[Steen719]

StoneCold,

I spend time every day at their schools, have filled out , signed, and actioned more educational plans than i care to remember, and have talked to their teachers about it...

 

have been told by their teachers ( who don't like that the kids don't learn cursive writing) that it is curriculum optional, but because of time constraints, it isn't taught...and here, parent teacher nights are now "student led conferences"....supposed to be better for the students, but, well, I think they don't accomplish much. ( I'm beginning to think that a lot of their curriculum time is spent learning french....especially in grade 5 ( early intensive french...what a joke!)

 

I know from seeing the kids in school that even at an early age, they are being bombarded with the notion of instant gratification...even in school, which used to be a haven from that sort of thing...but the good thing is that parents have the power to somewhat counter act that, and teach our kids the value of the things that are important, patience, kindness, respect for others, etc....and they have a lot to teach us too.

 

Additionally, here in Florida, the teachers have to teach for the FCAT (Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test) tests in order for the kids to pass it and the teachers to keep their jobs.

[StoneCold]

StoneCold,

I spend time every day at their schools, have filled out , signed, and actioned more educational plans than i care to remember, and have talked to their teachers about it...

 

have been told by their teachers ( who don't like that the kids don't learn cursive writing) that it is curriculum optional, but because of time constraints, it isn't taught...and here, parent teacher nights are now "student led conferences"....supposed to be better for the students, but, well, I think they don't accomplish much. ( I'm beginning to think that a lot of their curriculum time is spent learning french....especially in grade 5 ( early intensive french...what a joke!)

 

QUOTE]

 

I'm in Canada too and our parent teacher nights arent student led conferrences

[frozensprouts]

StoneCold,

I spend time every day at their schools, have filled out , signed, and actioned more educational plans than i care to remember, and have talked to their teachers about it...

 

have been told by their teachers ( who don't like that the kids don't learn cursive writing) that it is curriculum optional, but because of time constraints, it isn't taught...and here, parent teacher nights are now "student led conferences"....supposed to be better for the students, but, well, I think they don't accomplish much. ( I'm beginning to think that a lot of their curriculum time is spent learning french....especially in grade 5 ( early intensive french...what a joke!)

 

QUOTE]

 

I'm in Canada too and our parent teacher nights arent student led conferrences

 

ah, but if i am correct, you are from a more central portion ...we are east coast, in canada's only bilingual province...

[Spark1111]

Yes, cursive writing is becoming an optional lesson.

 

With the advance of the internet and email, who, besides a person in their 70s or 80s, is writing a letter to complain to the utility company?

 

Sad, but true. It's ALL digital and electronic media --via web sites --communication today.

 

For that reason, cursive writing became virtually obsolete overnight with advances on the internet. Instead, babies now start keyboarding in the primary grades.

 

However, what remains ironic is this: If you want your child to be a good student, you, the parent, must role model reading, conversation, researching, problem-solving, and creative thinking.

 

If they are occupied and plugged into their electronics, while that may be a beautiful babysitter, you still must actively engage in what they are doing with questions, dialog, feedback, and creative problem solving strategies if you want smart, engaged, learners.

 

In other words, they can have their media as long as you are an active participant in it.

 

If you cannot be, limit it.

[MissBee]

Many of us are here for support and to give support. But I sometimes find it hard to give support to people because I think I'm a bit conservative. You all know my background so I'm no saint. But what's with the attitudes people have these days about M?

 

Getting M, being in a committed R, being in love used to mean something... When did we all become so liberal that we expect to get good results from bad actions? It used to be that if you wanted to eff around, you stayed single. If you were getting M, you had to be pretty sure you wanted to be with that person for the rest of your life? You only said the words "I love you" when you meant it because with them comes a commitment to certain restrictive behaviour! What is going on?

 

I'm beginning to think that the real problem here...the cause of infidelity, marriage breakdown, etc is not that people are BAD. It's that there has been a serious erosion in the moral code to the point that what was long thought to be the common sense way to deal with relationships is now rare. I feel like people should now start testing their future S/O's to see that their values and beliefs are in line.

 

Is there a larger issue at play here as I suspect? Anyone see this attitude problem? Where is basic common sense?

 

I think society as a whole is evolving/has evolved (as all societies do) and usually some type of chaos ensues in one aspect of life or the other. I do think as some things become easier: like how much information we're exposed to and the instantaneous access we have to virtually everything, it also complicates interpersonal relationships, starting with the family, how people raise their kids, the values they instill, then how people form and think about romantic relationships. I do think it isn't an individual problem but something that affects all people in this new society and to be honest, you have to be conscious and intentional and make the choice to step back and actually consider how you think about relationships and then how you will proceed with them. Most people don't though and have no clue how to and especially since we're an individualistic culture, people often try to do things alone or see it as them and their partner against the world and love and romance in our culture is never seen as part of a larger societal fabric but as completely romantic and individual and centered around the couple and their feelings and drama, when in lots of societies (that also have way less divorce) that is not the case and love and romance are but one aspect of forming lifelong partnership. In our society there is almost no system of community where young people who are starting out dating have older role models to emulate and talk to etc...as half of their own parents are divorced, in As or trying to figure out their own mess too...so the kids inherit that and have to figure it out on their own. That's where I found myself and realized I don't want to go down the path my parents went down and that most of my generation will continue along. I have to make the choice for myself to learn about myself and then be conscious about relationships so that hopefully I can provide that type of example for my kids, if no one else can.

 

People teach a lot of things but teaching about dating or relationships is not often done...and I have to respect religious communities that do, as whether or not you "believe" in their religion, I see a lot of value in them providing a safe space, a community, older role models and a set of values for people to ground their romance and dating in outside of their own individual wants and dramas and yes vices. My older brother for example is a part of a religious community that I am not a part of but respect so much in terms of how it has helped him to proceed with his relationship with his fiance. They met through that community and dated and during that whole time it was never simply about them and what they want to do and rushing to have sex and all this, but they had a community of people who knew they were dating, it was more of a courtship, they had people outside of themselves to confide in if there were problems, they had people praying for them and just thinking kindly of them and their relationship, they themselves pray and seek some type of spiritual guidance about their relationship and that type of relationship allows for a lot of time to process things and not simply "feel"...as simply feeling can be so dangerous. So I think a lot of religious communities have it right in that regard. IMO and from what I see of their relationship, the crazy infatuation that a lot of people go through was significantly slowed in their relationship and they are a lot more grounded as it wasn't ever some "magical whirlwind" of just them two but reality was always there. When they got engaged and I went to the engagement party it was such a loving experience and people from their church were there sharing stories and my brother and his fiance had an older couple, who have been married for 35 years, as their mentors basically who counseled them as a couple and continue to do so before they tie the knot. It is not impossible for them to break up or for one of them to cheat....but I doubt, as I see them starting on a more solid foundation than most with a community of people behind them to support them and it isn't built strictly upon lust and romance and "just us" and the common cultural standards of love seen on tv.

Edited April 5, 2012 by MissBee

[StoneCold]

 

ah, but if i am correct, you are from a more central portion ...we are east coast, in canada's only bilingual province...

 

I'm east as well....but not NB east

Edited April 5, 2012 by StoneCold

[Eve]

Many of us are here for support and to give support. But I sometimes find it hard to give support to people because I think I'm a bit conservative. You all know my background so I'm no saint. But what's with the attitudes people have these days about M?

 

Getting M, being in a committed R, being in love used to mean something... When did we all become so liberal that we expect to get good results from bad actions? It used to be that if you wanted to eff around, you stayed single. If you were getting M, you had to be pretty sure you wanted to be with that person for the rest of your life? You only said the words "I love you" when you meant it because with them comes a commitment to certain restrictive behaviour! What is going on?

 

I'm beginning to think that the real problem here...the cause of infidelity, marriage breakdown, etc is not that people are BAD. It's that there has been a serious erosion in the moral code to the point that what was long thought to be the common sense way to deal with relationships is now rare. I feel like people should now start testing their future S/O's to see that their values and beliefs are in line.

 

Is there a larger issue at play here as I suspect? Anyone see this attitude problem? Where is basic common sense?

 

Personally I think it is pretty easy to spot those whom it is best to stay away from. H'mmm.. I reckon that the whole infidelity thing is in essence a personality issue and people are being engineered into not listening to often blatant signs and signals - because of the direction society has taken.

 

I think it is a sign of the times.

 

Take care,

Eve x