6 months NC - some observations

[Barrsitter]

HF said:

 

The OW rarely if ever takes a stand and says "if you love me, you will leave. I won't see you/sleep with you anymore until you prove to me, through your actions, that it is me you want a future with".

 

I believe this thread is all about my having taken that stand, as have others posting here. Your conclusion is wrong.

[jwi71]

My xMM told me he didn't want to treat me like a second fiddle, he said it hurt him, we tried to stay away from each other, we only saw each other 20x in 20 months. I gave an ultimatum, he moved out, he went to IC, I walked away ~ whether for good or temporary, I do not know. But as of right now I am over him.

 

Just going by what you post - tone and topic, not sure I buy this.

Confusion and uncertainly in an A setting seem to be FAR worse than in a normal R. The reason is obvious - there are ties and bonds to be severed to another...and one always wonders if they wont yo-yo back.

Enough to drive one crazy.

 

However, you seem to have a good head on your shoulder - it'll serve you well.

 

Plus he needs time to figure out his life, himself.

 

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

Speaking from long experience...you NEED to be out of his life. At least a year imo. Then, after one calendar year...and if you are still inclined...look him up.

[FightClub]

I never told you the whole story.

 

xMM and I were high school sweethearts for 2 yrs (38 yrs ago). We parted after high school. He married his current wife in 1983. I've had a restless personal life - 2 divorces and been single for the past 19 yrs. He said he wanted to look for me several times over the years but didn't. Finally asked me to lunch in 2009 to tell me how I had influenced him to be very successful. He asked me out again. The A started. We both realized that we made a mistake not staying together after high school. Deep soul connection exists. A lasted 2.5 yrs and ended Oct 2011 when he couldn't or wouldn't leave his M. Most days I'm ok and know that I did the right thing walking away. Some days I'm angry - feels like I got thrown under the bus. Everday his memory lingers in a haunting sort of way.

 

Conclusion - deep soul connection rather meaningless, apparently

 

 

Hey Barsitter,

 

 

I know how you feel in terms of feeling 'the connection' and feeling somewhere in-between hurt & trying to move on from the expectations that never came to pass, a full-time relationship with someone you feel as a 'soul mate'.

 

It hurts, it's something that takes a long time to process along with refocusing on yourself and where you have to take your life from this point on. In my own experience in the past an as of late, I did feel a strong connection with exMW, we both did, however it's what we do with the knowledge to benefit our future, that's where we truly shine as individuals.

 

When I first came to LS, I was full of confusion, questions, pain, hurt, anger, I felt as if my life was pulled in every direction other than forward. I held tightly onto my NC and when I saw that my exMW went back to her husband, that was it for me. I bowed out gracefully with all these questions of unresolved feelings that I thought deserved an explanation, but I realized slowly but surely as you probably are now, the answers are within you. Every possible answer you want, is available to you as dig deeper in the silence of NC.

 

The initial 6 months, I focused on questions, trying to get her out of my mind and was haunted quite regularly with her voice in my dreams. Amusingly, after I had deleted all of her images, e-mails, etc, I felt as though I had started the first process of letting her go on the surface.

 

Then, she came back, broke NC with a long e-mail, mostly to clear her own conscience that she knew our year together was wrong but she had to 'have me.' Reading that e-mail made me realize, she was stuck there after almost 7 months of no communication. I was baffled.

 

I had made all this progress, was still hurting inside but kept walking forward and she was still there, in that place and time, reliving it everyday as she said in the e-mail. It caused me to really again, look inside and see where I was at and where I'm going, so I did just did, I kept my stance on NC and realized she was gone, on the surface.

 

When a powerful surge of anger, strong feelings and my sub-conscience started to replay every little event as dreams and when it all subsided, I know what changed.

 

I changed, grew up and stopped believing that I had force myself to let her go, instead I let her occupy my thoughts without acting on it, I would think about her and process the information and then continued on with my day. Then the most incredible happened, I realized that by not pushing her out of my mind anymore, thoughts of her were less intense and then eventually the dreams faded for a few weeks as well.

 

The truth is she was already gone and in a weird way she removed herself as I gave her space in my mind. After that, my sub-conscience finally came to terms with everything and told me, the connection is gone, she is gone and you are free to live life.

 

I won't deny that I felt very strongly about this person and the 'connection,' but its always in the best interest of the individual in pain to move on and accept that this is life and the event served a purpose and had meaning in the end.

 

Bar, trust me, it seems like this road took forever but the silence within me is what made me cherish all the things I've learned and my time spent with xMW, it did happen for a reason and I'm proud of the fact that I turned this around and helped myself & the people around me to move on.

 

I know you'll move on as well, just don't stress it, it will come and life will work out, it's just hard to see the light until it really shines.

 

All the best, dear!

 

-FC

Edited April 1, 2012 by FightClub

[Barrsitter]

Dear FC,

 

I am going to print your reply and keep it in my purse. Thank you for your thoughtful, loving response. It is truly, truly appreciated and I will read it over many times.

 

I am so glad you are on LS and that you took the time to write out your experiences. Bless you...

 

B

[sad puppy]

FC - that was a very thoughtful post, thanks for sharing your experience. It is with other's wisdom that we can all learn and grow.

[KeepMeInMind]

Karma actually refers to incarnations, not just this life. I had to look it up to understand better before posting. That is the context used it the post, not what we all think of as karma (Bob stole someone's wallet, so later on, karma got Bob when someone stole HIS wallet).

 

It is a Hindu and Buddhist belief.

 

I'm not sure what I believe other than I believe there are pulls between two people that nobody who has experienced it can understand. It doesn't mean those two people are necessarily meant to be life partners, but like stated above, they were meant to meet and be a part of each other's lives in some way.

[sad puppy]

I have to disagree with the karma label. Here, it's being bastardized and made almost astrologic. Karma is something that you bring upon yourself in your words, thoughts and actions. Karma is instantaneous and doesn't discriminate.

 

If you want to say that affairs are karmic in that they bring immediate consequence to you and unconsenting others, then perhaps. But Karma is not something the universe bestows upon you, like being on the same freeway at the same time, or the universe bringing you a married person to have an extramarital affair with so you can learn from it.

 

I think you are confusing your terms here, we are discussing the elements of a "karmic soulmate", which is not the same as throwing "karma" into the situation. The term karmic soulmate v. twin soul is what was discussed. Karma is a separate issue. As far as meeting on the highway, coincidences, extremely curious occurences, to me, these are "signs from the Universe", doesn't have anything to do with "karma" per se. I have not only had these occurences with the xMM, but many after my mom died - all pertaining to birds, which when I discussed with my mom's extremely doubtful best friend (she so pitied me as though I was losing my mind), within 20 minutes of driving away from her, she called and she had one of these bird experiences as well! Hilarious! Signs of the Universe are cool, can't look for 'em, but you know it when it happens. These signs are not karma, karma is a whole other deal.

 

And for those that don't believe in the twin soul/soulmate literature, it goes back to Plato and many cultures, philosophers address this concept. Our world, our selves are energy, it requires a shift in thinking, in your paradigm. Quantum physics also comes into play but that is a whole 'nother conversation and much too complicated for a Sunday morning.

[sad puppy]

Karma actually refers to incarnations, not just this life. I had to look it up to understand better before posting. That is the context used it the post, not what we all think of as karma (Bob stole someone's wallet, so later on, karma got Bob when someone stole HIS wallet).

 

It is a Hindu and Buddhist belief.

 

I'm not sure what I believe other than I believe there are pulls between two people that nobody who has experienced it can understand. It doesn't mean those two people are necessarily meant to be life partners, but like stated above, they were meant to meet and be a part of each other's lives in some way.

 

Incarnations are part of it, but in our everyday life it's sorta like the energy you bring to your life, others, your situations, ... these are sort of the "seeds" you plant (could be similar to your intentions), and "what you plant" creates what will come back to you. A karmic soulmate is one in which you have both spiritually agreed to meet and be a part of each other's lives for some reason, a lesson perhaps.

 

The bolded is close to describing the karmic soulmate contract. It is only the twin souls that can be together once they are "free", essentially within their own selves.

[TaraMaiden]

Kamma, very simply, just means 'Action'.

Also, we need to look at the term 'Reincarnation' and understand that too.

Kamma is basically, everything you wilfully, or intentionally do.

 

Reincarnation is a view that there is a transmigrating essence, or consciousness, that passes from one human form to a direct copy, or nascent personification.

Not all Buddhists ascribe to reincarnation, although Tibetan Buddhists hold it as a dominant and principal aspect of their practice. But this is a 'privilege' ascribed to enlightened or awakened Lamas. (Such as HH the DL). Hoi poloi are stuck with simple re-birth into one of the six realms....

Most schools of Buddhism refer to re-birth - but this is not a rebirth of that person, because there is no significant or permanent person to be re-born.

there is a subtle consciousness, but it has no personality.....there is no transmigrating, identifiable, person or soul....

 

'Karmic soulmates' are a figment of the New-Age imagination. it's a hypothesis, but not a likely one.....

 

If you're going to consider aspects such as Karmic connections or reincarnation, it helps to have an educated foundation from which to work....

 

[MissBee]

I'm not confused at all, I'm just not buying it. It's like a new way to avoid responsibility for bad behavior. Instead of "the dog ate my homework" it's "my past life made me do it."

 

I don't think anyone was trying to say that.

 

I was a part of this discussion for example and have never avoided responsibility for my behavior. However, one's spiritual worldview or lack thereof affects how one frames one's experiences, good and bad in life. Whether you are a Christian, Buddhist, Jew etc your beliefs about the world are framed and explained by your beliefs. My spiritual worldview encompasses beliefs about incarnations and the soul....and it posits that in each incarnation we're here to learn something. Most traditions have that same tenet...they may call it different things or explain it with different theologies, but the idea is that humans are imperfect and the goal is to learn lessons so that you can get better. Even outside of spirituality, I see this as common sense.No one is perfect and throughout life, you learn. Within that framework, all relationships, platonic or romantic, good or bad are meant to teach you something. It's not about willfully making bad choices and blaming cosmic forces or acting like you have no control over yourself. It's about the reality that bad things happen. People do make bad choices. Then seeks to explain how you may have come to that choice and most importantly, how you go forward.

 

It's actually no different than psychology. Within a psychological framework o often our childhood experiences and subconscious motives cause us to attract and/or choose certain relationships and scenarios in life even outside of relationships.....through self-awareness and therapy though, if one has been making bad choices continuously, one can realize why one attracts this and go back and do healing work to break that cycle. The karmic relationship is pretty much the exact idea. It doesn't allow one to shirk responsibility or blame others or the universe....it is an explanation for why you end up where you do because of your soul'd childhood in essence, and ALWAYS points to becoming aware of this and LEARNING and doing better. That is the crux of it. It teaches that the point is for you to learn and grow so you don't continue to attract painful situations.

 

I don't think this is the place to debate spiritual beliefs; however, hopefully that made it clear what is actually being discussed, as what you summarized it as, wasn't really accurate.

[KeepMeInMind]

I will never NOT believe in signs from the universe. Call it God's work, call it fate, call it karmic. I don't care. It is what it is no matter the label. I did not believe in it until I experienced it. There is absolutely no denying it now.

[MissBee]

Kamma, very simply, just means 'Action'.

Also, we need to look at the term 'Reincarnation' and understand that too.

Kamma is basically, everything you wilfully, or intentionally do.

 

Reincarnation is a view that there is a transmigrating essence, or consciousness, that passes from one human form to a direct copy, or nascent personification.

Not all Buddhists ascribe to reincarnation, although Tibetan Buddhists hold it as a dominant and principal aspect of their practice. But this is a 'privilege' ascribed to enlightened or awakened Lamas. (Such as HH the DL). Hoi poloi are stuck with simple re-birth into one of the six realms....

Most schools of Buddhism refer to re-birth - but this is not a rebirth of that person, because there is no significant or permanent person to be re-born.

there is a subtle consciousness, but it has no personality.....there is no transmigrating, identifiable, person or soul....

 

'Karmic soulmates' are a figment of the New-Age imagination. it's a hypothesis, but not a likely one.....

 

If you're going to consider aspects such as Karmic connections or reincarnation, it helps to have an educated foundation from which to work....

 

 

I particularly agree with the bolded. And even in terms of the New Age hypotheses....I don't see it as any less legitimate as who can prove or disprove any of these spiritual concepts? There is hardly any spiritual lab that you go to test these things out.

 

But at the end of the day my take-away point, isn't about in believing it or not...but it is like you said: 1)if you're gonna discuss or disagree at least be educated about it, as whether or not you believe in something, you can still intellectually engage it and understand how it shapes people's thinking. And 2) Whether in Buddhism or New Age movements or whatever other spiritual community, is anyone allowed to shirk responsibility. I mean, there may be traditions out there where this is possible, but in the ones I'm familiar with the idea is that we as humans have agency. Bad things do happen and they have an explanation as to why. We as humans do make poor choices and there is some means that exists for us to rectify this.

[TaraMaiden]

......The karmic relationship is pretty much the exact idea. It doesn't allow one to shirk responsibility or blame others or the universe....it is an explanation for why you end up where you do because of your soul'd childhood in essence, and ALWAYS points to becoming aware of this and LEARNING and doing better. That is the crux of it. It teaches that the point is for you to learn and grow so you don't continue to attract painful situations.

 

I don't think this is the place to debate spiritual beliefs; however, hopefully that made it clear what is actually being discussed, as what you summarized it as, wasn't really accurate.

 

I'm afraid the same goes for you....

 

but as you say - this isn't the place for debate of spiritual beliefs.

 

however, even if one were to say that it is unprovable, or untestable in laboratory conditions, it is still essential that people do not pull the ancient and profound teachings of a specific calling or religion, and manipulate them, or massage them to fit in with their world view.

The Buddha taught very specific things about Kamma and rebirth.

People using these terms to describe cosmic energies and subtle connections between one 'soul' and another, do these millennia-old teachings a great disservice.

it bugs me when people bandy these terms around, and mould them to their own personal intended agenda.

Kamma, is Kamma.

re-birth is re-birth.

Let's not put any imagined or hypothetical slant on them.

[MissBee]

I'm afraid the same goes for you....

 

but as you say - this isn't the place for debate of spiritual beliefs.

 

however, even if one were to say that it is unprovable, or untestable in laboratory conditions, it is still essential that people do not pull the ancient and profound teachings of a specific calling or religion, and manipulate them, or massage them to fit in with their world view.

The Buddha taught very specific things about Kamma and rebirth.

People using these terms to describe cosmic energies and subtle connections between one 'soul' and another, do these millennia-old teachings a great disservice.

it bugs me when people bandy these terms around, and mould them to their own personal intended agenda.

Kamma, is Kamma.

re-birth is re-birth.

Let's not put any imagined or hypothetical slant on them.

 

 

I do agree that one should not appropriate certain terms for their own end, but at the same time, beliefs can and do evolve and ancient traditions are not unchangeable, as often when you actually trace it, small changes are made over time, so the argument of orthodoxy often breaks down, as most people centuries later do not do or believe exactly as the very first person or group. Yet orthodoxy is important for people and legitimacy....so groups will fracture and form sects over the debate of orthodoxy.

 

Then there is often room in religious traditions for "inspiration", as pretty much most religious beliefs emanated from a source who was inspired or often in response and over against something else of the time that was no longer working. So the idea of spiritual evolution or new slants on ancient concepts can be discussed. Currently I do work on the sociology of religion and theologies, so it's all fascinating to me. But yea we'd have to derail the whole topic to discuss further.

 

 

In reference to what you specifically quoted, I was not claiming to explain Buddhist beliefs btw...I was explaining what I was discussing and what sad puppy mentioned. Whether you call it New Age or something else. Jthorne was commenting on that and her take on it was not what I meant, so I was explaining what was in fact meant. Even if we're calling an apple and orange...the people in the discussion have to know that's what's being called that in order to discuss it.

Edited April 1, 2012 by MissBee

[TaraMaiden]

Ok. how about this?

 

Don't call it kamma - call it destiny.

don't call it re-birth - call it deja-vu.

 

The Buddha's teachings have actually changed very little - if at all - during the past 3000 years, and monks everywhere are reciting suttas that were first written down - from memory - under 100 years after the Buddha died.

there is no fixed, permanent omnipotent deity in Buddhism, so there has been little need to reinterpret or modify something based purely on philosophically-sound teachings. If you study closely any of the /buddha's teachings in the Pali tipitaka, they are as applicable today as they were when they first originated.

 

if you're not aiming to explain Buddhist beliefs - don't use terms which are directly linked to Buddhism.

I am. which is different.

[MissBee]

Ok. how about this?

 

Don't call it kamma - call it destiny.

don't call it re-birth - call it deja-vu.

 

The Buddha's teachings have actually changed very little - if at all - during the past 3000 years, and monks everywhere are reciting suttas that were first written down - from memory - under 100 years after the Buddha died.

there is no fixed, permanent omnipotent deity in Buddhism, so there has been little need to reinterpret or modify something based purely on philosophically-sound teachings. If you study closely any of the /buddha's teachings in the Pali tipitaka, they are as applicable today as they were when they first originated.

 

if you're not aiming to explain Buddhist beliefs - don't use terms which are directly linked to Buddhism.

I am. which is different.

 

Within my set of beliefs that's what I know the terms to be called....whether or not it is right, that is what I have been accustomed to, so I would not just randomly start calling it something else.

 

I get your point, but you'd have to take it up with the people who started it, and have them make the move to rename it. But individuals who learn about it, of their own accord won't just get up and say well you know...let me call it something else.

[alexandria35]

Okay I haven't read the entire thread and I'm posting in response to the OP which spoke of a soul connection. First of all I want to say that I have experienced what I thought was a soulmate connection. It was also a painful relationship because the guy was emotionally disturbed and it was a horrendous breakup. I was in terrible shape for a couple of years afterwards. I couldn't believe how much pain I was in or why it was happening but I know the hurt and devastation is real. That being said I started to get better when I realized a couple of things.

 

First thing I realized is that I was cheapening my true lasting relationships. There are people I have known my entire life, who have always been there for me and always had my best interest in thier hearts. They have never hurt me or caused me pain. Oh sure we've had our tiffs and the usual ups and downs that relationships go through. Take my brother for instance. We used to fight like crazy..lol and even now we can get kind of annoyed with each other but whenever I have been in any kind of need he has always been there for me 100% and in a heartbeat. As a matter of fact I leaned heavily on him when my "soulmate" broke my heart. My brother was the one who was calling me, seeing if I was okay, taking me out to movies and dinners and just generally trying to pull me through. He was just starting his own new romance at the time and he even took me along on their dates sometimes...LOL. Oh and his girlfriend was great and she has been a wonderful friend to me ever since too! It honestly moves me to remember how much support and love they have given me.

 

I don't know what I would ever do if I lost them now but you know what? Back in the day when I was so deeply involved in my pain of losing my soul connection, I think if my brother had died I wouldn't have hurt over that loss as much as I was hurting over the loss of my "soulmate". Today that just makes me sick! My brother wasn't the only one. I also had a 18 year old son who was even more devoted to me than my brother was. Of course I loved them but that love paled in comparison to the love and loss I was feeling from my broken soul connection. The way I had elevated this soulmate connection above everyone and everything else makes me feel disgusted wtih myself now. And it was so selfish and self indulgent. I was so caught up in my own Romeo and Juliet fantasies that I couldn't see what was right in front of my face. I had completely lost touch with what was true love and support. I was being bombarded with it from my true friends and family, yet I insisted in wallowing in my grief. BLECH!!

 

Second thing I realized is that God, a Higher Power, the Universe or whatever you want to call it had absolutely nothing to do with my painful relationship(s). I guess I started to realize that true soul connections are wonderful and freeing experiences. Actually I don't know if I believe in soulmate type connections at all but I think if there is such a thing then they would be nothing but good and life enhancing experiences. They wouldn't be secretive, painful, unfullfilling, anguish filled experiences. Any connection built on lies, deceit, pain, longing, wishing, pain, delusions, hurt to oneself or hurt to others, is NOT WORTHY of being called a soul connection or soulmate. Oh I experienced the chemistry, the instant connection, the immediate bond and I figured the universe had brought us together. NOT! The feelings were real and the attachment was real but it wasn't based on anything good and right. The broken in him had spoken to the broken in me. And if anyone had tried to explain that to me at the time I would have laughed in their face. I mean I knew he had problems but NOT ME! I was okay and I knew what I was doing. He was the one that was causing all of the pain, he was the one with the mental and emotional issues. I was the good one who was trying to help him and love him through it...LOL. Obviously if I was fine I wouldn't have ever involved myself with him in the first place.

[truthbetold]

I'm afraid the same goes for you....

 

but as you say - this isn't the place for debate of spiritual beliefs.

 

however, even if one were to say that it is unprovable, or untestable in laboratory conditions, it is still essential that people do not pull the ancient and profound teachings of a specific calling or religion, and manipulate them, or massage them to fit in with their world view.

The Buddha taught very specific things about Kamma and rebirth.

People using these terms to describe cosmic energies and subtle connections between one 'soul' and another, do these millennia-old teachings a great disservice.

it bugs me when people bandy these terms around, and mould them to their own personal intended agenda.

Kamma, is Kamma.

re-birth is re-birth.

Let's not put any imagined or hypothetical slant on them.

 

 

Brilliant, and agreed. No matter if there are differences each belief holds a major framework. Studying Christianity, Buddhism, Muslim and even Indian beleifs each have their own belief system and you can't just pick and choose and rationalize pieces of it to further one's agenda.

 

That's like the poster that is rationalizing "whatever" it is God's signs, universe, or karma. That sounds like a person who believes they are their own higher power as they cannot ascribe to a particular belief system.

 

God is not going to send you a married man for your soul mate. Sorry, but there's no way if you are in fact in touch with your faith, you'd know that. That's not to say you may be allowed to be tested in a way to strenghten your character and prove Christ's command. "do unto to others".

 

Buddahism, it was pointed out above that it isn't "karmic" to see these signs. So that leaves if the universe is sending them, who is in charge of that? If you don't know or are athiest then that would stand to reason you believe you are your own higher power. Well good luck with that because it seems those people do infact rationalize everything instead of taking responsiblity for their own choices.

 

All higher powers have one common thread. To strive for peace and harmony and to do unto others. To treat those around you as you want to be treated. Not just the people YOU choose. But ALL those around you and lives that are touched, to the best you can. That strengthens character and fosters spiritual growth.

[sad puppy]

I'm not confused at all, I'm just not buying it. It's like a new way to avoid responsibility for bad behavior. Instead of "the dog ate my homework" it's "my past life made me do it."

 

Who's avoiding responsibility? Nobody here is avoiding responsibility. We are discussing spiritual concepts and ideas.

[MissBee]

Who's avoiding responsibility? Nobody here is avoiding responsibility. We are discussing spiritual concepts and ideas.

 

Yes, the short of my explanation was that within those concept and ideas, there is a HUGE emphasis on responsibility and it is not as it is falsely painted, i.e. where you can blame the Universe for what happens and it's a means for you to get off the hook.

 

You do not need to believe in what another believes....but you must understand it on their terms and thus far no one has tried to claim that their A was divinely ordained so they are at no fault and all is well.

[sad puppy]

Yes, the short of my explanation was that within those concept and ideas, there is a HUGE emphasis on responsibility and it is not as it is falsely painted, i.e. where you can blame the Universe for what happens and it's a means for you to get off the hook.

 

You do not need to believe in what another believes....but you must understand it on their terms and thus far no one has tried to claim that their A was divinely ordained so they are at no fault and all is well.

 

I am aware of personal responsibility and I am not letting myself off the hook and "blaming the Universe", I'm not doing that at all. I am just sharing some cool things that happened to me and within the framework of the twin soul theories and such, which do date back to Plato. I have no problem accepting responsibility, none at all.

 

Not interested in getting into a pissing match on who knows what about Buddhism, spiritual concepts. It is all extremely difficult to get into from an academic standpoint here on LS. It's always amazing how discussions here seem to go askew. Everyone has their own framework, life experience, and perspective, that's fine, but to get into some sort of ridiculous challenging discussion about spirituality is time wasting. A few points and comments were made, ie, soul connection and I added my viewpoint to share and be able to speak within the same framework. To have to justify anything to anyone here that decided to go off the rails and challenge either my or Barr's experience or viewpoint is annoying.

 

I am well aware of Buddhism as years ago, I was very involved in the Tibetan community while I was studying Buddhism, I studied and met with a lot of great teachers. Anybody that wants to study & learn about that only needs to go study, that ain't happening here.

 

On a lighter note, I've met the HHDL on a couple of occasions and I will say that when he walks into a room, the energy molecules in the air change, he is totally connected to "something", hahaha! And he likes to laugh, a lot, about almost everything. He is also very physically engaging, grabbing your hand or your shoulder. A very fine person, indeed.

[sad puppy]

Brilliant, and agreed. No matter if there are differences each belief holds a major framework. Studying Christianity, Buddhism, Muslim and even Indian beleifs each have their own belief system and you can't just pick and choose and rationalize pieces of it to further one's agenda.

 

That's like the poster that is rationalizing "whatever" it is God's signs, universe, or karma. That sounds like a person who believes they are their own higher power as they cannot ascribe to a particular belief system.

 

God is not going to send you a married man for your soul mate. Sorry, but there's no way if you are in fact in touch with your faith, you'd know that. That's not to say you may be allowed to be tested in a way to strenghten your character and prove Christ's command. "do unto to others".

 

Buddahism, it was pointed out above that it isn't "karmic" to see these signs. So that leaves if the universe is sending them, who is in charge of that? If you don't know or are athiest then that would stand to reason you believe you are your own higher power. Well good luck with that because it seems those people do infact rationalize everything instead of taking responsiblity for their own choices.

 

All higher powers have one common thread. To strive for peace and harmony and to do unto others. To treat those around you as you want to be treated. Not just the people YOU choose. But ALL those around you and lives that are touched, to the best you can. That strengthens character and fosters spiritual growth.

 

And this sentence alone exhibits your complete and utter lack of understanding the Buddhist philosophy. HHDL doesn't "believe" in "something out there". You may choose to belive in "something out there" but all of it is truly inside. All of it. We shall agree to disagree.

[alexandria35]

Listen, I went through those crazy occurences EVERY SINGLE DAY for the last 4 months. Things that make you go, "Holy ****, did that just happen?? There is no way!" Once or twice, coincidence. Everyday, something altogether different.

 

It is VERY hard to ignore. Especially when you don't believe in fate, higher powers, etc.

 

Listen that kind of stuff happens to all of us all the time. Most people just dont attach that much meaning to it. I had a young hippie type mother. When I was about five she had a good male friend whom I adored. He was sweet on me too..LOL. Promised me he would marry me when I grew up. A couple of years later when I was about seven he married a beauty queen and I was pretty miffed..haha. First time I saw him after my mom told me he had gotten married I turned my back on him and refused to even speak to him. All the adults were laughing at me but I was really pissed!! LOL. After that my moms life changed, she became a Christian and all of her old hippied drug using friends fell away. Years later when I was about 22 I myself had a rather unusual group of friends and many were 10 years or older than me. One day I'm sitting around with a couple of them and they keep refering to this guy by a rather unusual nickname. My childhood crush went by the same nickname and I recognized it immediately. After asking some questions it was determined that it was the same guy!!

 

Well to cut to the chase my friends arranged a meeting for us and I got to see him again. He was over 40 now but still really cute, although much shorter than I remembered. He seemed a lot bigger when I was 5 years old..haha. We went out for drinks, chaperoned by a couple of our friends. He was very happily married and spoke of his wife and boys with great pride. There was absolutely no hanky panky or anything suggestive. He wanted me to meet his family and we tentatively agreed to a date the following weekend where I could meet his wife and sons. A couple of days before the meeting he called me to say that day wasn't going to work out after all and he would call me sometime in the future to arrange another time. He never called me back and I never called him because I instictively knew that his wife wasn't interested in meeting me or having me become part of their lives. I wasn't 5 years old anymore afterall, I was a hot 22 yr old. She probably made him feel pretty stupid for even thinking that was going to happen...LOL.

 

That is just one of many many stories I have of weird ways my life has crossed paths with others.To me its just a cool story but it doesn't mean anything. Now had I started some sort of love affair with this married guy I'm pretty sure I'd be using this story to justify it and convince others that it was supposed to happen as it had been fated by the universe...lol

[MissBee]

Sorry, gals. We're just not going to agree that an affair is a "Karmic Relationship" or a "Karmic Connection." Just not going to happen. To me, simply labeling it as such is a way to avoid responsibility, and as others have said, bending concepts to fit an agenda.

 

JMO.

 

Regardless of if you agree or not... I for one have never avoided responsibility and label ALL my problematic relationships as karmic i.e. teaching relationships. I think it is fruitless to have a conversation where you don't listen to what other people are saying. That's not a conversation...it's believing as you wish and tuning out that person's explanation of their own POV. Listening is not agreeing, but it is actually taking what this person is saying and not your own spin on what they are saying.

 

I explained how I viewed it and nowhere did it preclude responsibility, I in fact showed how it has everything to do with taking responsibility, yet somehow you bring it back to the avoiding responsibility thing. I think you have already made up your own mind about that based on your own agenda....as nowhere in my explanation in particular, of what I meant, can you show me how it is not taking responsibility.

 

I live my life responsibly everyday and even on this forum, you can't show me one place where I defended my A or avoided responsibility for it or blamed other people, beings or things for it. So your beliefs about my belief being one of irresponsibly isn't steeped in any reality based on what I say or post...but your own slant. Which you are entitled to and we will indeed be disagreeing on that.

[sad puppy]

Hey Barr! Interesting thread you started here my dear! All the best to you, thinking of you, let's keep Aunt Madea in the forefront, shall we?!!

 

Signing off!