How to end it?

[PeineDeCoeur]

Hi,

 

I need some advice regarding ending the A - breaking it off and closure.

 

I'm an OW involved with a MM for about a year - a PA & EA for both. I was married when the A started, and am now separated. My separation didn't happen because of MM nor was there ever an expectation that MM would leave his W for me.

 

There have sometimes been some red flags with MM, moments when I have wondered "what the hell am I doing with this guy"? I know he is not what I want in a long-term relationship. But I just can't seem to close the door on him. We have a great connection - but I recognize he leads a highly compartmentalized life, and that, though he sometimes talks about leaving his W, he seems to lack any real will to make it happen. Which is ok - I don't want him to leave to be with me - I want him to leave because of his own reasons.

 

He knows I am thinking of ending it (already did once, but came back), I've said I need more, but he doesn't say or do anything. He says he loves me, but there is rarely any action to back it up. He wants me to lead the way - to ask for what I need. Yet I'm afraid to do so because I suspect he won't/ can't deliver. We've been NC for about a week, but I didn't say "we're done", so I expect that at some point he will reappear. My question is - do I just ignore him when he gets back in touch with me? Or do I see him one last time in order to tell him that it's over? I care about him deeply, I want to be in touch with him, and yet I know he is not the man for me.

 

What to do?

[wannabdone]

You know, something stood out to me in your post. Him wanting you to say what you want. My xMM always said that to me. At first I took it as a sign that he was caring for my needs, but later figured out he was doing it 1-to avoid conflict and 2-to get me to say out loud I wanted him, to make him feel good.

 

Know this... you are worth more than this. You deserve someone to be with you, and someone you shouldn't have to ask to be with you.

 

No matter what you do, talk to him one more time to tell him its over or not, be done with it.

[alexandria35]

I think you should tell him you are done just so he knows where things stand but I don't neccesarily think you have to see him to do so. Can't you tell him over the phone or in an email? I also don't think you should be planning to stay "in touch" with him as you will not be able to fully move on as long as you are still communicating with him. Sounds like you don't want to be in an affair anymore and he doesn't want to leave his wife, so it's pretty clear that this needs to end.

[PeineDeCoeur]

Yes! When he says things like that, I take it as a sign that he cares about me, that he's interested in my needs. But.. when I've brought up the fact that I'm confused about us, he says nothing. Five minutes later he'll tell me that I can ask him for anything, he loves me that much. He must say that because he knows I won't ask.

 

I'm leery of seeing him in person because it has been hard for me in the past to resist the desire to be close to him again. And that's what I'm trying to get away from. But I tried breaking up with him via email last time and it didn't stick...

[MissBee]

Hi Peine,

 

Even outside of As, often it is still difficult to break your attachment to someone whom you've been seeing, even though you know it is not "IT". That attachment is difficult to break as they have become a habit in your life, and something you're used to and I do think part of us is scared of letting that familiar comfort go and step into the unknown alone. We also may fear that nothing else is there for us, or we can't be without this person, so although we know it is not the best...we think it is better than nothing. It's not true though. It's irrational anxiety.

 

You know he won't change and you know you don't want him for the longterm....and I think as time goes by you can no longer ignore it. The hardest part is taking the first step in letting go. I don't think you need to meet up with him to have a discussion. A discussion IMO is an invitation for negotiation....if you're done with this, then I'd suggest you send him a message or something telling him you can no longer be in this relationship, especially if he is still married, and you want more for yourself, so he should respect your wishes. Or you can call him up and state your case firmly. But my only thing would be being careful of being sucked back in by begging, pleading and promises. Say what your terms are and don't leave room for him to talk you out your terms! Then walk away and go NC from that point on. Then it will take A LOT of resolve...a lot! You'll probably start to panic and feel like you made a mistake, then as time passes wonder if he misses you, or as you're alone you start feeling like being in the A was better etc...but all those are just illusions that you have to push through until you start seeing and believing you did the right thing.

[PeineDeCoeur]

Hi Peine,

 

Even outside of As, often it is still difficult to break your attachment to someone whom you've been seeing, even though you know it is not "IT". That attachment is difficult to break as they have become a habit in your life, and something you're used to and I do think part of us is scared of letting that familiar comfort go and step into the unknown alone. We also may fear that nothing else is there for us, or we can't be without this person, so although we know it is not the best...we think it is better than nothing. It's not true though. It's irrational anxiety.

 

You know he won't change and you know you don't want him for the longterm....and I think as time goes by you can no longer ignore it. The hardest part is taking the first step in letting go. I don't think you need to meet up with him to have a discussion. A discussion IMO is an invitation for negotiation....if you're done with this, then I'd suggest you send him a message or something telling him you can no longer be in this relationship, especially if he is still married, and you want more for yourself, so he should respect your wishes. Or you can call him up and state your case firmly. But my only thing would be being careful of being sucked back in by begging, pleading and promises. Say what your terms are and don't leave room for him to talk you out your terms! Then walk away and go NC from that point on. Then it will take A LOT of resolve...a lot! You'll probably start to panic and feel like you made a mistake, then as time passes wonder if he misses you, or as you're alone you start feeling like being in the A was better etc...but all those are just illusions that you have to push through until you start seeing and believing you did the right thing.

 

Ah, MissBee.

 

Your first paragraph has me in tears. Yes, MM is a habit that I have used as a coping mechanism to get me through some tough times. It made me feel like I had something good to look forward to. Why did I do this to myself?

 

I am already feeling what you describe above.. and am afraid of waffling as I have in the past. I know I have to break it off, I just don't want to do it.

[MissBee]

Ah, MissBee.

 

Your first paragraph has me in tears. Yes, MM is a habit that I have used as a coping mechanism to get me through some tough times. It made me feel like I had something good to look forward to. Why did I do this to myself?

 

I am already feeling what you describe above.. and am afraid of waffling as I have in the past. I know I have to break it off, I just don't want to do it.

 

I can very much relate.

 

I was in such a position recently....he was a single guy though, but managed to wean myself off bit by bit. At some point you KNOW you have to....but indeed that comfort can make it hard. But eventually the discomfort becomes more apparent than the comfort and you feel more conflicted.

 

You are getting to the breaking point and the first step is the hardest. Even if you waffle...most people do "back slide" but you get up and make your resolve to move on from the situation. Perhaps start stocking up other emotional resources and healthy coping mechanisms to replace him, so it's easier.

 

What other activities and things do you have in life for fun, enjoyment and nourishment?

[eddiesay]

If he is cheating on her to be with you, why in the world would you think he would be faithful to you?

[wannabdone]

Yes! When he says things like that, I take it as a sign that he cares about me, that he's interested in my needs. But.. when I've brought up the fact that I'm confused about us, he says nothing. Five minutes later he'll tell me that I can ask him for anything, he loves me that much. He must say that because he knows I won't ask.

 

I'm leery of seeing him in person because it has been hard for me in the past to resist the desire to be close to him again. And that's what I'm trying to get away from. But I tried breaking up with him via email last time and it didn't stick...

 

 

It only doesn't stick if you don't want it to. Remember, at the end of the day, you call the shots if this is over or not. You set your future. If you want it over, and you feel like you need to tell him, but can't see him, send him an email. If he calls you or emails you, don't answer.

I know it is easier said that done, and its hard. But you do hold the key to your future.

[PeineDeCoeur]

I can very much relate.

 

I was in such a position recently....he was a single guy though, but managed to wean myself off bit by bit. At some point you KNOW you have to....but indeed that comfort can make it hard. But eventually the discomfort becomes more apparent than the comfort and you feel more conflicted.

 

You are getting to the breaking point and the first step is the hardest. Even if you waffle...most people do "back slide" but you get up and make your resolve to move on from the situation. Perhaps start stocking up other emotional resources and healthy coping mechanisms to replace him, so it's easier.

 

What other activities and things do you have in life for fun, enjoyment and nourishment?

 

Yes, the longer this goes on, my head is shouting STOP THIS. But my heart is whispering other things. The comfort of his presence is hard to give up. That's why I'm tempted to just be NC now.

 

My life is a mess right now, in the middle of D and contemplating moving. There are things I have to deal with that I'd rather not.. My life is in a huge transition and it's hard to give up on MM too.

 

Trying to develop other coping mechanisms is definetly something I have to look into.

[PeineDeCoeur]

If he is cheating on her to be with you, why in the world would you think he would be faithful to you?

 

I've said I don't want him for a longterm R... and this is partially why. He has chosen to pursue As so he can get his needs met, and stay in his M. I believe this is wrong.

[PeineDeCoeur]

It only doesn't stick if you don't want it to. Remember, at the end of the day, you call the shots if this is over or not. You set your future. If you want it over, and you feel like you need to tell him, but can't see him, send him an email. If he calls you or emails you, don't answer.

I know it is easier said that done, and its hard. But you do hold the key to your future.

 

Yes.. he was good last time about honoring my wishes in terms of breaking it off. I think this is why I don't want to do it, because that will be it.

 

I think the longer I go without contact the better I will feel and the more perspective I will have.

[MissBee]

Yes, the longer this goes on, my head is shouting STOP THIS. But my heart is whispering other things. The comfort of his presence is hard to give up. That's why I'm tempted to just be NC now.

 

My life is a mess right now, in the middle of D and contemplating moving. There are things I have to deal with that I'd rather not.. My life is in a huge transition and it's hard to give up on MM too.

 

Trying to develop other coping mechanisms is definetly something I have to look into.

 

Yes you should...as he is just a fake form of support, trust me. Chances are when you need him most and if shyt hits the fan, he will throw you under the bus and run back to his life and you will STILL be alone.

 

So my advice is to really find a support system outside of him. In the A, I too felt like he was my support and he helped me and was there for me...and he was....in ways that were EASY. But at the end of the day, when shyt hit the fan, I wouldn't be the one he would be beside. I was not his priority, as much as he did things that seemed like I was.

 

I understand you are going through a tough time...but you definitely want to diversify your comfort portfolio and not put all your eggs in a MM's basket.

[Patrice]

Going through a divorce and the other uncertainties in your life are making you cling to something, you know longterm is not in your best interest. When the dust settles and you realize all the hard work you have done to get to the moment where clarity should come, why would you want this man in your life. This is your time to figure out what you want, where you want to be and to remain healthy in the process. You're putting yourself in the position of more pain to come, on top of what you've already been through.

 

MM seldom leave, you already know he isn't what you want longterm. Get out and meet friends and find other healthy support systems for yourself now. I understand the reluctance to cut it off due to the loneliness many of us have felt after a divorce. But, think about the grieving process you have in front of you and understand that this will slow that process and perhaps, make it worse for you in the long run.

[wannabdone]

Yes.. he was good last time about honoring my wishes in terms of breaking it off. I think this is why I don't want to do it, because that will be it.

 

I think the longer I go without contact the better I will feel and the more perspective I will have.

 

 

I applaud you for being honest and saying that you are worried about "that will be it". I understand what you are saying, I have been there. heck, still have waves of that feeling. You just do what you need to do for you to be at peace and have in your life what you deserve.

 

I guess you need to just start really asking yourself if this is enough.

 

Please keep posting.

[whichwayisup]

Hi,

 

I need some advice regarding ending the A - breaking it off and closure.

 

I'm an OW involved with a MM for about a year - a PA & EA for both. I was married when the A started, and am now separated. My separation didn't happen because of MM nor was there ever an expectation that MM would leave his W for me.

 

There have sometimes been some red flags with MM, moments when I have wondered "what the hell am I doing with this guy"? I know he is not what I want in a long-term relationship. But I just can't seem to close the door on him. We have a great connection - but I recognize he leads a highly compartmentalized life, and that, though he sometimes talks about leaving his W, he seems to lack any real will to make it happen. Which is ok - I don't want him to leave to be with me - I want him to leave because of his own reasons.

 

He knows I am thinking of ending it (already did once, but came back), I've said I need more, but he doesn't say or do anything. He says he loves me, but there is rarely any action to back it up. He wants me to lead the way - to ask for what I need. Yet I'm afraid to do so because I suspect he won't/ can't deliver. We've been NC for about a week, but I didn't say "we're done", so I expect that at some point he will reappear. My question is - do I just ignore him when he gets back in touch with me? Or do I see him one last time in order to tell him that it's over? I care about him deeply, I want to be in touch with him, and yet I know he is not the man for me.

 

What to do?

 

You're not "in love" with him, rather in lust and very addicted to how he makes you feel. Hense the wanting to be in touch with him - You get something out of any contact, whether it be by text, email, phone, or face to face.. Sure you care about him, but how much is it based on feelings and the intensity of the A? It's good you know he isn't what you want in a relationship or marriage. How much of this is about "ego" ? I ask with respect.. Ego's and emotional attachment (unhealthy way) go hand in hand..

 

Just be upfront and honest with him. Don't play games. Tell him how you feel and why, that it's best it ends because you're too attached (but not in love) and it's not good for you to continue in the A and be the OW.

 

Ask him to please respect your decision and wishes to stay in NC mode once you end it. Mean it too, if he breaks NC, you must ignore. Make it impossible for him to contact you. Change numbers, email so he cannot reach out to you..And therefore you won't be tempted to cave.

 

You CAN end this if you truly want to.

[PeineDeCoeur]

I get hat it's hard to break a habit. I've had relationships like that which even though not an A went on/off for years. It's not healthy.

 

Personally I think you just need a commitment device. Like tell him it's over by email and copy his wife. You know that he's doing the wrong thing by her and so are you. By making him deal with the mess he's created you're actually doing them both a favor.

 

Other than that there is just NC but make sure you fill the void left by the habit with something else.

 

Also "how to break an addiction to a person" is good.0

 

The idea of contacting his w makes me really uncomfortable. I don't know her at all. I know enough to know that she has caught him before, and has been suspicious at times. There have certainly been moments where she has gotten upset with him because he couldn't account for his time!

 

I have NO desire to make myself known to her. Yes - you are so right - he is doing the wrong thing by her and I am enabling it. THis is actually something I read on LS that helped me - the idea that I am enabling his M by participating in the A. That by providing something that he needs, that he should get from his w, I am making it easier for him to stay in his M.

 

Do the BSs on LS feel that they should be told by the OW? In this case, I can't imagine MM will ever confess unless caught red-handed. And he has betrayed her in such a way that it's hard to imagine there's any love left.

[PeineDeCoeur]

You're not "in love" with him, rather in lust and very addicted to how he makes you feel. Hense the wanting to be in touch with him - You get something out of any contact, whether it be by text, email, phone, or face to face.. Sure you care about him, but how much is it based on feelings and the intensity of the A? It's good you know he isn't what you want in a relationship or marriage. How much of this is about "ego" ? I ask with respect.. Ego's and emotional attachment (unhealthy way) go hand in hand..

 

Just be upfront and honest with him. Don't play games. Tell him how you feel and why, that it's best it ends because you're too attached (but not in love) and it's not good for you to continue in the A and be the OW.

 

Ask him to please respect your decision and wishes to stay in NC mode once you end it. Mean it too, if he breaks NC, you must ignore. Make it impossible for him to contact you. Change numbers, email so he cannot reach out to you..And therefore you won't be tempted to cave.

 

You CAN end this if you truly want to.

 

I haven't really thought a lot about the possibility of ego/emotional attachment component to this. This is something I will have to think about.

 

I want to be in a place where I'm not thinking about him constantly, checking my email every hour... I have to be more conscious of what I'm getting from contact with him- some kind of validation?

[sailorgirl]

Hi Peine,

 

Even outside of As, often it is still difficult to break your attachment to someone whom you've been seeing, even though you know it is not "IT". That attachment is difficult to break as they have become a habit in your life, and something you're used to and I do think part of us is scared of letting that familiar comfort go and step into the unknown alone. We also may fear that nothing else is there for us, or we can't be without this person, so although we know it is not the best...we think it is better than nothing. It's not true though. It's irrational anxiety.

 

... Then walk away and go NC from that point on. Then it will take A LOT of resolve...a lot! You'll probably start to panic and feel like you made a mistake, then as time passes wonder if he misses you, or as you're alone you start feeling like being in the A was better etc...but all those are just illusions that you have to push through until you start seeing and believing you did the right thing.

 

I am a long-time lurker and first-time poster simply because I must say: Miss Bee, THANK YOU for saying this, in this way, and tonight. I am going through exactly this -- 10 days NC following a calm and reasonable breakup with my MM and now am really struggling with every single thing that you describe. Fighting with my own head and heart. Because of the ending of the habit, the anxieties it brings up, the "false promise" of the idea of going back, the worry about being forgotten, and all that you say.

 

Peine, I know so much of what you are going through. My own D is slightly longer ago than yours, and happened before my MM, but my EMR was roughly the same age as yours. I've been thrown for a loop by how much harder it has been to end my EMR than it was to end my 15 year marriage!

 

Do what you need to do to get out of your EMR since you know that's what you need. Find other things and people from which you draw strength, happiness, and support. They're out there, even if it seems like they're not.

[PeineDeCoeur]

I am a long-time lurker and first-time poster simply because I must say: Miss Bee, THANK YOU for saying this, in this way, and tonight. I am going through exactly this -- 10 days NC following a calm and reasonable breakup with my MM and now am really struggling with every single thing that you describe. Fighting with my own head and heart. Because of the ending of the habit, the anxieties it brings up, the "false promise" of the idea of going back, the worry about being forgotten, and all that you say.

 

Peine, I know so much of what you are going through. My own D is slightly longer ago than yours, and happened before my MM, but my EMR was roughly the same age as yours. I've been thrown for a loop by how much harder it has been to end my EMR than it was to end my 15 year marriage!

 

Do what you need to do to get out of your EMR since you know that's what you need. Find other things and people from which you draw strength, happiness, and support. They're out there, even if it seems like they're not.

 

Hi sailorgirl;

 

Thanks for sharing. Yes, I sometimes wonder that dealing with the end of my M seems so much easier than letting go my MM. I think it has to do with a relationship that has run its course versus something that feels like it has so much potential. Even with all the red flags. You can buy into the illusion that if only he was free, you would be able to have a great relationship. It's crazy. I keep telling myself that I need to keep myself away from him for a few months - being physical has created an attachment that I need to break now.

 

I have to go through the process of re-building now as I go through separation and D. This is really hard and I find I've been distracting myself from doing this..

 

I still have to send my break-up email. It's been a week of quiet on both sides, but I still have to tell him I'm done.

[PeineDeCoeur]

 

Of course he deserves for her to kick his cheating ass but you don't really know their M and I chose not to despite the fact he betrayed me very badly. I chose to give it time and then when the fog cleared and he threw himself all in to the M I gave him a chance to prove himself. Whether that's enough only time will tell. But I knew things about him and us that she didn't and so she cannot understand why either of us would stay yet we both want to. You just don't know and it's not your place to judge.

 

I don't judge. I believe you can never know the truth of someone else's M, and that I only get to hear one (biased) side of things. But the things he does and the way he is dealing with his problems.. it's just hard to imagine that he won't walk at some point in the future. Their values seem at odds - but, having said that, they have been married 20+ years, so who am I to say?

[PeineDeCoeur]

Thanks for all your comments.

 

I'm realizing as a result of the conversations here, that aside from the NC I have to start making conscious choices in my thinking. Instead of dwelling only on the aspects of MM that I miss, I have to think of MM holistically and bring in some of the red flags.

 

It's not that I want to despise him, just have to keep reminding myself that he deals with his problems and life challenges in an incredibly inappropriate way. And I do not want this in my life.

[scatterd]

As a BW I would want to know the truth so I could make my own decision on staying and going under the circumstances.Wifes usually suspect something but

with no proof what can you do.I hope you dont have

anymore to do with him you deserve a real relationship.

Good luck I wish you well.

[MissBee]

I am a long-time lurker and first-time poster simply because I must say: Miss Bee, THANK YOU for saying this, in this way, and tonight. I am going through exactly this -- 10 days NC following a calm and reasonable breakup with my MM and now am really struggling with every single thing that you describe. Fighting with my own head and heart. Because of the ending of the habit, the anxieties it brings up, the "false promise" of the idea of going back, the worry about being forgotten, and all that you say.

 

Peine, I know so much of what you are going through. My own D is slightly longer ago than yours, and happened before my MM, but my EMR was roughly the same age as yours. I've been thrown for a loop by how much harder it has been to end my EMR than it was to end my 15 year marriage!

 

Do what you need to do to get out of your EMR since you know that's what you need. Find other things and people from which you draw strength, happiness, and support. They're out there, even if it seems like they're not.

 

You're welcome

 

Yes, I think most of us have experienced this before, it's not unique to affairs. The ending of any attachment/habit/relationship arouses similar types of fears and anxieties. But the good thing is that with each passing day, and your resolve to stay in NC and move forward, you do begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

You'll be bruised for a while, but will definitely be able to get back up and live and love again, and hopefully love better and choose better as well.

[wannabdone]

Thanks for all your comments.

 

I'm realizing as a result of the conversations here, that aside from the NC I have to start making conscious choices in my thinking. Instead of dwelling only on the aspects of MM that I miss, I have to think of MM holistically and bring in some of the red flags.

 

It's not that I want to despise him, just have to keep reminding myself that he deals with his problems and life challenges in an incredibly inappropriate way. And I do not want this in my life.

 

 

PDC... I don't think you have to concentrate on all the red flags and what he has done wrong. I think you just need to concentrate on how much more you deserve than this.