Why do some people see not wanting to have kids as being selfish?

[Ross MwcFan]

I've got three kids who I love very much and who make me very happy...having kids was what was right for me...but that doesn't mean it's what's right for everyone.

 

some people just don't seem to be "parent material"...this doesn't make me better than them, we are just different, and I admire someone who recognizes that and who makes the choice not to have kids when they know that being a parent isn't what would be "right" for them...

 

this doesn't mean they hate kids, or that they are selfish or greedy...rather, it means that they know what they want/don't want, and that is how they are choosing to live their lives

 

The caveat would be that if they get married or involved in a long term relationship, they need to be honest with their spouse/partner, especially if they know that having a child is important to them...not doing so would be, in my opinion the thing that is "selfish"

 

 

one thing though...if someone knows they definitely don't want to have children, why are there some that , knowing this,still have them? I know of a least two people in that situation, and they are unhappy, and thier kids are unhappy...if you don't want kids, why have them? ( there are surgical methods for preventing pregnancy that are very effective...I never understood why these people didn't get themselves "fixed")

 

Comformists I guess. I can't see how anyone could be happy living their life for other people (I don't mean their kids or spouse, I mean society), instead of living it for themselves. Sounds like a very depressing way to live and a waste of your life.

[NeverDated]

one thing though...if someone knows they definitely don't want to have children, why are there some that , knowing this,still have them? I know of a least two people in that situation, and they are unhappy, and thier kids are unhappy...if you don't want kids, why have them? ( there are surgical methods for preventing pregnancy that are very effective...I never understood why these people didn't get themselves "fixed")

It's my understanding that it's easier to get those procedures in Canada and the UK. Here in the States, it's next to impossible to get "fixed" until you're 30 or 35 (depending on the doctor) or have at least 3 children. Even with kids, it can be hard for young people to find someone to do it because they may "change their mind" in a few years. Sick, if you ask me.

[frozensprouts]

It's my understanding that it's easier to get those procedures in Canada and the UK. Here in the States, it's next to impossible to get "fixed" until you're 30 or 35 (depending on the doctor) or have at least 3 children. Even with kids, it can be hard for young people to find someone to do it because they may "change their mind" in a few years. Sick, if you ask me.

 

are you serious? wow...

 

in a way, i can see the logic, but doesn't refusing to do the procedure take away a person right to determine their own path in life? If one gets the surgery, and they do decide later that it the wrong choice, well, that is ont hem, as they made the decision to have it.

[setsenia]

Not wanting kids isn't selfish. What's selfish is having a kid or kids you don't want and then making lame excuses for lame parenting such as not being "paternal" or "maternal" enough or the classic "I was too young". It's super easy to prevent children you don't want. You're doing yourself and any potential kids a favor by choosing to not have children rather than be a crappy parent, because you were too young or didn't feel paternal or maternal.

[brokenTom]

What's selfish is leading a partner to believe that you want children when you really don't, or saying that you want children, but acting in a way that shows that you really don't.

 

So, if you are merely not sure about wanting babies, or never bring it up because it's simply not ever on your mind, should you simply not be in a relationship with anyone who is sure either way?

 

the word MAYBE should never be used when you are about to get into a relationship or im open to it then be completely against it like it was recently written in other thread

 

How do you know from an early stage of a relationship if you truly want children with the person you are dating?

[irin]

How do you know from an early stage of a relationship if you truly want children with the person you are dating?

 

its not about that particular relationship itself or possible relationship, its about what you want in life in general, like the OP when you sure that you never want marriage or children you should say from the beginning, to avoid leading a person on to believe that if the relationship is successful, it will naturally result in marriage and children!

[Eddie Edirol]

So, if you are merely not sure about wanting babies, or never bring it up because it's simply not ever on your mind, should you simply not be in a relationship with anyone who is sure either way?

 

No you shouldnt. Its a compatibility thing, a BIG one, and you have to be in the same page with the person youre with. You dont date people who want children unless you are sure you want to have them with THEM. Thats how too many illegitimate kids are born, and unraised, or put up for adoption. You dont marry them because youre afraid to lose them, knowing youre not sure about wanting kids, and you know they do. Its deceit, and deplorable.

[Reedes]

Having kids and not being able to or choosing not to take care of them is selfish.

[brokenTom]

You dont date people who want children unless you are sure you want to have them with THEM.

You see the problem with this, no? How can a person know the potential partner is a good match for having a kid with before dating them? Isn't that the point of dating? That was my question.

 

As for not knowing for sure, does everyone really feel those people should not date at all? If you make your unsure feelings known from the start, and your partner is ok with it, why is that still an issue? Obviously at some point if one wants a baby and the other still isn't sure then they should probably break up, but why is everything so black/white all the time, no exceptions unless 100% mutual feelings?

 

Are you saying a personal shouldn't tolerate not getting exactly what they want because they shouldn't make any compromises in life, no matter what? Can love be powerful enough that it changes your mind about what you previously felt were requirements? Are NEEDS the same as WANTS and aren't some people merely more flexible then others and is that really such a huge crime?

[brokenTom]

also, I was not considering marriage with my questions. I completely agree that both people need to be on the same page for that. My questions are more for the potential and early relationship scenarios.

[HeavyHitter]

This is another mindset that I'm trying to understand, sorry if the post comes across as harsh, it's not ment to be.

 

To me selfish is a negative word, it implies that what you're doing is bad or wrong.

 

But how can there be anything bad or wrong with not wanting kids, even if it is for the reason of having more freedom and money, what harm are you causing to anyone?

 

When people call someone selfish for not wanting kids, is it because they are automatically assuming that their partner will want kids and so they're depriving them of having kids? Even if they are depriving their partner of having kids, I still think it's wrong to call them selfish. To me that's no different from calling a woman selfish because her partner doesn't want kids and she wont have an abortion.

 

Thanks.

 

Nothing is wrong with not having kids. I acknowledge I'm afraid that if I have one I won't be able to see him/her as much as I want if my relationship with his/her mother doesn't work out, among other things. Plus if I end up financially bankrupt, I don't want to have my kid stressed out over issues that I need to take care of.

[Eddie Edirol]

You see the problem with this, no? How can a person know the potential partner is a good match for having a kid with before dating them? Isn't that the point of dating? That was my question.

 

As for not knowing for sure, does everyone really feel those people should not date at all? If you make your unsure feelings known from the start, and your partner is ok with it, why is that still an issue? Obviously at some point if one wants a baby and the other still isn't sure then they should probably break up, but why is everything so black/white all the time, no exceptions unless 100% mutual feelings?

 

Are you saying a personal shouldn't tolerate not getting exactly what they want because they shouldn't make any compromises in life, no matter what? Can love be powerful enough that it changes your mind about what you previously felt were requirements? Are NEEDS the same as WANTS and aren't some people merely more flexible then others and is that really such a huge crime?

 

Love isnt supposed to change your mind about major decisions, rational thinking is. The feelings need to be 100% mutual so that there isnt complications down the line that risk ending the relationship. Its called dealbreakers. (just like Jens thread) People arent always honest about what they really want, and the best way to avoid that, is to make sure youre on the same page about the big issues, not leaving things at "maybes" hoping the other person changes their mind. You dont date someone hoping they change who they are. Theres plenty of dealbreaker threads on this board to learn that from.

 

I hate kids, I really cant stand being around them. A woman that has 2 of them is supposed to date me hoping I will change my mind? I'm supposed to let her? Thats foolish for both of us. You dont date people hoping they will change their mind with major decisions. You take them as they are, and assume they wont change. Especially with ideas on:

 

keeping fit

children

money handling

humor

living location

 

I could go on, but as far as making smart decisions, yes, its black and white.

[Jessica w]

Considering that the world is over populated, I think it is selfish to have children. I find it extremely selfish to have multiple children, especially when one has an average IQ or below or a genetic disease.

[brokenTom]

You dont date people hoping they will change their mind with major decisions.

That's not what I was talking about at all and I'm against trying to change a person's mind when it's 100% made up.

 

I'm merely asking about people who's feelings are more complicated then simple black/white. If you hate kids, that's pretty obvious. But say you can imagine yourself having a child, but only if you met the right person, and because you've yet to meet that person you aren't completely sold on the idea.

 

Yes, these can be considered "maybes" but what is wrong with that? That's the part I don't understand. You hate kids, great, that's an easy one for you to figure out in your relationships.

 

Are you really saying you can't have mixed feelings on any kind of big matter and be in a relationship? You always have to be 100% sure of something before doing it? Of course big decisions like kids and marriage you should be 100% sure of, but merely dating someone before you are sure is somehow a horrible cruel deceptive crime? I meet plenty of guys and girls who aren't sure they want babies or marriage yet, are you saying they don't deserve to date ANYONE?

 

Maybe I'm being too literal with all of this, but for me, marriage and having kids are to be experienced WITH THE RIGHT PERSON. I wouldn't want it just because it's on some list of THINGS I MUST DO BEFORE I DIE. The bigger priority is that I meet someone who is most compatible with me, marraige and kids are a lower priority and only will happen if we both decide we really want to share those things together. If I HAD to have marriage and kids NO MATTER WHAT, but my partner does not, then of course there could be problems. But if my love for them is truly unconditional I wouldn't dump them because of our lack of mutual agreement on certain issues.

 

I guess I'm a person who simply can't talk in absolutes and I'm just sorting through this all out loud. I certainly respect your (and any one else's) feelings on these matters. Life is simpler when you know exactly what do and don't want.

[threebyfate]

Even though I'm a parent, I find it hilarious when people point the selfish finger at others who don't want children. As if people have children for the good of humanity! Hypocrites.

[Eddie Edirol]

That's not what I was talking about at all and I'm against trying to change a person's mind when it's 100% made up.

 

I'm merely asking about people who's feelings are more complicated then simple black/white. If you hate kids, that's pretty obvious. But say you can imagine yourself having a child, but only if you met the right person, and because you've yet to meet that person you aren't completely sold on the idea.

 

Yes, these can be considered "maybes" but what is wrong with that?

 

Theres nothing complicated about what youre talking about. If you want kids with the right person, then you want kids. Theres no maybe there. The maybe is whether or not you make an effort to find the right person. many people dont, they settle, but they want kids, so they make the babies with Mr Right now anyway. Even if you settle, and you want kids anyway, that person is going to convince you to have kids with them. So theres no maybe.

 

You ultimate goal is to make a baby. Youre already sold on the idea, you just want the right person to do it with. If the person isnt right, then you DONT want kids. Wheres the grey area? I mean, who is telling themselves that they dont want to find the right person to have kids with, if they really want a family? They are going to eventually do it, and they will have kids, the idea was sold long ago. Black and white.

[johan]

A person who doesn't have kids also doesn't have the support a child offers later in life. More of their needs will ultimately have to be met by the taxpayer.

 

That's pretty selfish.

[brokenTom]

You're already sold on the idea, you just want the right person to do it with.

But that's not how I feel. I feel like I won't know UNTIL I find "the right person". The right person FOR ME doesn't have to want or not want babies, that's not the major factors I look for in a person. I look for someone who is open minded about the idea. If they decide after dating me a while they want my kid, but I don't, OR if I decide I want them but they don't, then we resolve the issue. If we both decide we want kids, then we do. If we both decide we don't want kids, then we don't. I don't see deciding not to have kids with someone as "settling". It's merely a mutual agreement we both happen to arrive at.

 

So, maybe another/clearer question to ask is... how does one KNOW they MUST have a child or not? Does one have to know this from an early age, or can one come to the realization later in life? Like what being discussed in another thread, folks who always WANTED children go to test it out baby babysitting/volunteering, then decide it's not for them. Doesn't that disprove your point about things always being black/white? Doesn't that suggest that it's YOU who feel that way, and maybe you are the norm, but not everyone is convinced either way and their feelings can change?

[brokenTom]

A person who doesn't have kids also doesn't have the support a child offers later in life. More of their needs will ultimately have to be met by the taxpayer.

 

That's pretty selfish.

If you follow that logic then everyone is selfish. Having a kid just so they can support you in your old age is selfish. Depending on taxpayer money to help sustain you is selfish. Voting for people in higher office to provide you with things you want is selfish. Not voting is selfish. We are naturally selfish beings just like any other animal, it's all matter of degrees and what you find tolerable.

 

We are even selfish posting on this forum because many of us want our opinions validated, or we want to learn from others so that we are better off making future decisions. Oh, we are all soooo selfish

 

I personally don't feel it's selfish either way. It's when you start lieing to people so you can gain something from them, taking advantage of them, that's when I feel it treads into the truly selfish territory, because you have no concern for others feelings.

 

Not wanting a child CAN be considerate to any potential child, because I can't imagine any kid wanting to be raised by someone who lacks interest in raising them.

[johan]

It's also every family's responsibility to have children to supply and donate to the war effort, shoud the need arise. People who don't do so are essentially freeloaders.

[Eddie Edirol]

So, maybe another/clearer question to ask is... how does one KNOW they MUST have a child or not? Does one have to know this from an early age, or can one come to the realization later in life? Like what being discussed in another thread, folks who always WANTED children go to test it out baby babysitting/volunteering, then decide it's not for them. Doesn't that disprove your point about things always being black/white? Doesn't that suggest that it's YOU who feel that way, and maybe you are the norm, but not everyone is convinced either way and their feelings can change?

 

You just proved its black or white. If someone tests out babysitting and then decide that they dont like dealing with kids, their decision is made. First they wanted them, they tested it, then they didnt want it. But most people dont look to test it out, they just say they'll deal with a kid if they have it one day. If they decide they would wait for the right person even though they didnt like it at that time, then they really still want kids. EVERYONE says the situation has to be right, but depending on their agenda, most people dont wait for that situation, they deal with the situation that they could get, and settle.

 

Im sure that Jen from the other thread REALLY wanted the ultimate situation, which was a man who didnt have children that wanted to start a new family with her. She wanted a child. Apparently it didnt matter with who. So she settled for a guy who said maybe. (keep in mind, he clearly meant no but didnt want to lose her, he NEVER meant maybe).

 

I cant say how does one know that they want kids, because I cant relate. but people are slaves to trends, peer pressure, family pressure, and will have kids sooner than they want based on people telling them to. Especially women, add to that the hormonal pressure. People worry about how they will look if they DONT have kids, worry about when its too late, if they will miss out on the "joy" of parenthood.

 

I dont think the maybe is whether or not they want kids, its if they think they will LIKE raising children, or if they will make good parents. But I think for the majority, they already know they want kids, and they will have them, its just the degree of the situation that is at question. Theres no maybe with the actual kids decision.

[setsenia]

You just proved its black or white. If someone tests out babysitting and then decide that they dont like dealing with kids, their decision is made. First they wanted them, they tested it, then they didnt want it. But most people dont look to test it out, they just say they'll deal with a kid if they have it one day. If they decide they would wait for the right person even though they didnt like it at that time, then they really still want kids. EVERYONE says the situation has to be right, but depending on their agenda, most people dont wait for that situation, they deal with the situation that they could get, and settle.

 

I also think there is a difference between not wanting to deal with someone ELSE'S kids rather than their own. You can set your own rules and guidelines with your own children, but you cannot discipline someone else's children as you would your own. You have to be very careful how you handle someone else's children and for me that is the reason I've never cared for babysitting.

[Eddie Edirol]

I also think there is a difference between not wanting to deal with someone ELSE'S kids rather than their own. You can set your own rules and guidelines with your own children, but you cannot discipline someone else's children as you would your own. You have to be very careful how you handle someone else's children and for me that is the reason I've never cared for babysitting.

 

Oh of course! Thats another on/off decision, whether or not you want to take care of stepchildren. People usually say no until they run into the right person with children, and just try to ride it out.

[brokenTom]

OK, we are basically saying the same thing but just explaining it differently. To me it's not "black/white", but obviously because you can't relate you can't admit that it's a possiblity that others have a different way of looking at things. Thanks for your patience, you've been very kind.

[veggirl]

Considering the overpopulation in this world and the damage it is doing, IMO having more than 2 kids is what is selfish. 2 kids replaces the parents, so I'm okay with that. I cringe at people have more in this day and age and yes consider them selfish.

 

A person who doesn't have kids also doesn't have the support a child offers later in life. More of their needs will ultimately have to be met by the taxpayer.

 

That's pretty selfish.

 

WTF are you talking about? So your kids are gonna pay for your meds, nursing home, etc? You really think that is common? Gimme a break.

 

It's also every family's responsibility to have children to supply and donate to the war effort, shoud the need arise. People who don't do so are essentially freeloaders.

 

:lmao:

I...am hoping this is a joke?