Spouse's responsibility

[Angelina527]

I'm just curious how many people think the betrayed spouse should take responsibility for their spouse's affair?

 

When my husband and I were having our (very short) affair, I felt like it was all his BW's fault. He told me that she wasn't communicative. He said their marriage was sexless and that she was very conservative with any type of affection. I thought to myself, how could anyone live like that?

 

I guess that was my justification for being involved with him. I blamed her totally and completely.

 

Now on to my husband cheating on me. On DDay I kept asking what I had done to cause the cheating, but it didn't make sense to me. We had sex all the time and I was affectionate and supportive in all areas of his life.

 

Then it hit me; the problem wasn't about ME or his ex-wife...the problem was with my husband. He didn't come to me and tell me that he was feeling unhappy with himself, so how could I help him fix it? He now admits that he didn't go to his ex wife with his issues, either.

 

I now realize that the affair is never the BS's fault...if the cheating partner can't come clean with their issues, then that's on them.

 

I feel badly for blaming her.

 

It's amazing how once we fOW are in the BS's shoes, things become much more clear.

[whichwayisup]

Problems in the marriage, both people are at fault. How one handles those problems is up to each person.

 

Many times, like in your marriage, the person is broken and your husband cheating on you had nothing to do with what you did or didn't do. It was a selfish choice he made to go outside of the marriage and fulfill his needs by another woman.

 

People justify their behaviour and choices to lessen the guilt and make themselves believe it's okay to go ahead and do as they please.

 

Hope life is good with you A, and you're healing well.

[carhill]

I'm just curious how many people think the betrayed spouse should take responsibility for their spouse's affair?

 

I had tendencies like this during the early stages of my EA but MC helped me separate out and clarify what was my responsibility (the infidelity) from what my exW's responsibility (and mine) was in the marriage for the state of the marriage. Without MC, I fear I might have learned nothing from a failed marriage. As it is, I learned loads.

[Spark1111]

I'm just curious how many people think the betrayed spouse should take responsibility for their spouse's affair?

 

When my husband and I were having our (very short) affair, I felt like it was all his BW's fault. He told me that she wasn't communicative. He said their marriage was sexless and that she was very conservative with any type of affection. I thought to myself, how could anyone live like that?

 

I guess that was my justification for being involved with him. I blamed her totally and completely.

 

Now on to my husband cheating on me. On DDay I kept asking what I had done to cause the cheating, but it didn't make sense to me. We had sex all the time and I was affectionate and supportive in all areas of his life.

 

Then it hit me; the problem wasn't about ME or his ex-wife...the problem was with my husband. He didn't come to me and tell me that he was feeling unhappy with himself, so how could I help him fix it? He now admits that he didn't go to his ex wife with his issues, either.

 

I now realize that the affair is never the BS's fault...if the cheating partner can't come clean with their issues, then that's on them.

 

I feel badly for blaming her.

 

It's amazing how once we fOW are in the BS's shoes, things become much more clear.

 

As the faithful spouse, I so appreciate the honesty and insight it took you to reach this conclusion.

 

It's validating to have someone who has been in both positions to re-inforce what I have so often stated about my sitch, sometimes to some fairly harsh responses.

 

It's what so many of us have posted and here is the inverse: If I was in the same cold, loveless, sexless marriage, why didn't I have an affair or divorce?

 

I had no idea how miserable he was; he never expressed it!

 

The more the affair took hold, the more miserable he grew with me and the marriage (justification).

 

This is the same repeating behavior over and over again, unless it is fixed.

 

I'm sorry you had to live this, to understand it.

 

Here is advice straight from several therapist's mouth: If someone starts to complain about their marriage the ONLY response is "I know the name of a good therapist. Here's their phone number." and then, CHANGE THE SUBJECT!

 

Otherwise, you leave yourself very vulnerable in getting sucked into a triangulated relationship.

 

How horribly did he paint his xwife?

 

As you got to interaact (assuming you did) with her, how off the mark was his portrayal of her?

 

How were you protrayed to his fAP?

[TaraMaiden]

Blame is variably proportional.

Responsibility is equally divisible.

 

One person may be to 'blame' for the event or incident which causes the visible rift, but in most cases, this is symptomatic of a deeper cause.

 

Responsibility for the upkeep, maintenance, nurturing and healthy growth of the relationship, is equilateral.

but if one person abdicates that responsibility, no amount of positive input from the other person, will enable that relationship to continue developing as it should.

[nofool4u]

I'm just curious how many people think the betrayed spouse should take responsibility for their spouse's affair?

 

Absolutely none. Zero, nada.

 

They should take part of the responsibility for the state of the marriage(with the exception of those cheaters that simply cheat because they like the variety of having sex with different people)

 

But responsibility for the other spouse's decision to gratify themselves with someone outside the marriage? None.

[MissBee]

I agree with whichwayisup.

 

A marriage is only a marriage if 2 people are in it and the old cliche, and "the two are one". So if one part of the union has checked out...you currently don't have a good marriage, as a marriage cannot exist and thrive on the efforts of one person. So built into the marriage concept is 2 people working in accord. I do believe when a marriage breaks down, it is both people's responsibilities. However, the people in marriages are individuals and you can't control someone's choices or actions. If they choose to cheat, that is on them, and is but one of several choices available. No one should accept blame for that choice.

 

I am also very much pro pre-marital counseling. I think prevention is better than cure and the plain and simple truth is that most people don't have good relationship skills, as often it wasn't a skill cultivated like you would most others. Most people operate on trial and error and of course the feelings of love...but have no idea what should happen next, after all the wedding guests go home and life happens. I think it can only help for you to have a relationship counselor give you tools and techniques before you say I-DO to have in your "marriage tool kit" as you go forward that will help in terms of communication, conflict etc. I do think it can go along way in prevention....as it is often only after problems or cheating that people go to counseling and realize truths and thought patterns that are damaging, but had always existed, but just weren't spoken about.

Edited April 2, 2012 by MissBee

[TaraMaiden]

In the uk, any couples wishing to marry in church are obligated by that church to undergo what's known as a 'pre-marriage Workshop' - no matter how long they've known each other; some couples even have a family together.

None of that matters. If they wish to make their vows in church - they have to attend the course.

I used to assist in those courses - and ended up running some myself.

Almost without exception, couples were both resentful and sullen about having to go through the course - but I can count on the fingers of one hand, those who still felt that way when it was over.

[skywriter]

I don't think the BS should take responsibility for their spouse being involved in a affair.

 

How can they be expected to take responsibility for being betrayed &lied to?

 

The very idea of that really sounds ignorant. I say we all need to take responsibilty for the choices we make.

 

...and if you aren't willing to do something to help your marriage,then take the proper measures to end it,so you don't involve,innocent outsiders into your marital problems.

[thomasb]

My wife had nothing what so ever to do with my awful choice to engage in an affair. She was, and is, a beautiful, supportive, sexy wife. And a terrific mother. My choices were completely my own. One of the problems with people today, in my eyes, is their complete inability to own their own choices and responsibilities.

[MissBee]

In the uk, any couples wishing to marry in church are obligated by that church to undergo what's known as a 'pre-marriage Workshop' - no matter how long they've known each other; some couples even have a family together.

None of that matters. If they wish to make their vows in church - they have to attend the course.

I used to assist in those courses - and ended up running some myself.

Almost without exception, couples were both resentful and sullen about having to go through the course - but I can count on the fingers of one hand, those who still felt that way when it was over.

 

I've had this discussion with people and a lot of them get very defensive and say things like "How can a stranger tell me about my relationship??!!!" Then I roll my eyes and sigh and move on I think that attitude is the start of foolishness. Assuming you know everything and that relationships are things we "naturally" know how to do well....and it really isn't true. I think most people don't like their relationship to be up for scrutiny, because they are afraid of what they will hear. Or it's not as romantic I suppose for some to actually have a real conversation and talk about real issues pre-wedded bliss.

 

But sign me up! I'd be more than glad to have a third party, especially one who has dealt with lots of couples, provide my husband and I with tools that we can cater to our relationship and perhaps even things we never even thought about before. I think people in the Western context are very focused on the individual, while in some other contexts, marriage is more of a communal thing. In the latter context these relationships work out a lot better as you have a community of people supporting you and you have elders and people who counsel the couple. The women of the family counsel the bride to be, the men of the family counsel the groom and the marriage is a network where everyone is in support of each other. Here...most people scoff at that and believe that as long as we're inlove, who cares, we'll marry, we don't need counseling or anyone's input....then we have a 50 odd % divorce rate or multiple marriages and disillusionment.

[bentnotbroken]

I am 100% responsible for the problems I contributed to in our marriage. I was 100% NOT responsible for his choice to cheat many times.

[whichwayisup]

One of the problems with people today, in my eyes, is their complete inability to own their own choices and responsibilities.

 

Almost gone are the days of putting kids and family first, above one's own needs no matter what. Not too many sacrifice themselves and needs on behalf of kids and spouse. FAMILY is everything and people tend to forget that when they only focus on themselves and their own needs and desires for wanting 'complete' happiness all the time. Life isn't like that! Nobody is happy ALL the time. Nobody has ALL needs met perfectly.. No marriage is perfect and there's always going to be needs that aren't met - NO excuse or justification to go ahead and cheat.

[beenburned]

No, the cheating spouse could have found healthy ways to cope if they felt their needs were not being met.

 

I find it interesting that the majority of WS's don't communicate that there are problems of any kind. And even if the BW asks them if anything is wrong, they are told repeatedly nothing is wrong.

 

My H will tell anybody that we had a happy marriage with no problems, frequent sex, etc. He was the problem.(it wouldn't have mattered who he was married to at that time in his life)

 

He was always a big flirt with bad boundaries, and simply did not want to pass up opportunities of sex with different people.

[jwi71]

It takes TWO to be in an R but only ONE to cheat.

[thomasb]

No, the cheating spouse could have found healthy ways to cope if they felt their needs were not being met.

 

I find it interesting that the majority of WS's don't communicate that there are problems of any kind. And even if the BW asks them if anything is wrong, they are told repeatedly nothing is wrong.

 

My H will tell anybody that we had a happy marriage with no problems, frequent sex, etc. He was the problem.(it wouldn't have mattered who he was married to at that time in his life)

 

He was always a big flirt with bad boundaries, and simply did not want to pass up opportunities of sex with different people.

 

 

Agreed. There was no problems 'with in' my marriage. My problem was with in myself, and my inability to enforce good boundaries.

[wannabdone]

As the faithful spouse, I so appreciate the honesty and insight it took you to reach this conclusion.

 

It's validating to have someone who has been in both positions to re-inforce what I have so often stated about my sitch, sometimes to some fairly harsh responses.

 

It's what so many of us have posted and here is the inverse: If I was in the same cold, loveless, sexless marriage, why didn't I have an affair or divorce?

 

I had no idea how miserable he was; he never expressed it!

 

The more the affair took hold, the more miserable he grew with me and the marriage (justification).

 

This is the same repeating behavior over and over again, unless it is fixed.

 

I'm sorry you had to live this, to understand it.

 

Here is advice straight from several therapist's mouth: If someone starts to complain about their marriage the ONLY response is "I know the name of a good therapist. Here's their phone number." and then, CHANGE THE SUBJECT!

 

Otherwise, you leave yourself very vulnerable in getting sucked into a triangulated relationship.

 

How horribly did he paint his xwife?

 

As you got to interaact (assuming you did) with her, how off the mark was his portrayal of her?

 

How were you protrayed to his fAP?

 

 

Spark,

 

I know you did not ask me this question, so I hope you do not mind if I chime in. Because my xMM seemed to have the same "issues" as the poster did with hers.

 

xMM, protrayed his BS as: entitled, non affectionate, cold, fake, pretencious, lazy, non supportive, and controlling. There were things I saw that lead to what he said, with out talking to her. Just seeing their life, and the unwillingness she had to help with things. But when I did talk to her, I saw exactly what he was talking about. She really was all of these things. However, although he did M her at a early age, it seems as though she had always been this way. So was it really her fault that she was all of these things, when she had been all of these things from day one? Nope. If he didn't like those things, which I don't blame him, he should have left her.

 

In any case, if the WS is not happy, its much easier to go to MC and if it doesn't work, get a D, rather than having an A.

[Radagast]

In any case, if the WS is not happy, its much easier to go to MC and if it doesn't work, get a D, rather than having an A.

 

I hope you don't mind if I comment on this. I don't believe it is as cut and dried as your statement suggests. Some times it is not "much easier" at all.

 

I tried marital counselling with my ex-wife. She did not see the need for it as she did not find anything to be wrong with the marriage. If I was unhappy, she felt, the problem must be with me. We did separate. The effect on the children was devastating. The effect on my ex-wife was devastating. While I was happy during the separation, I could not in good conscience refuse my ex-wife's pleas to reconcile given how unhappy everybody else was. I thought that would be extremely selfish of me. However, after our getting back together again matters were soon as bad, or worse, than they had been prior to the separation. My ex-wife was unwilling to return to counselling. I did not feel I could subject my children to the trauma of separation again. When I was approached for an affair it genuinely seemed to me to be the best way out of a very unhappy situation. Hindsight has given me other data. Had I known then what I know now I would like to think I would have acted differently. However without the counselling I subsequently went through I don't think I would have had the emotional resources to deal with the situation any differently to the way I did at the time. A divorce at that point may have been cleaner, more honest and more honorable, but it certainly would not have been "much easier".

[Owl]

I don't think that the bs is responsible for the cheating, that is on the ws.

 

I do think that marriage problems, personal issues and hard circumstances in life can make someone much more vulnerable to choosing to cheat. Sometimes the bs is a person that is very difficult if not impossible, but divorce should be the first option. Bat**** crazy is not a classification just for ws or ow/om's. Intolerable people should be given the papers and each should go on their way.

 

Totally agreed. It takes two to make a marriage...and only one to destroy it. It could be the result of both spouses, or either spouse not participating as need be to destroy the relationship.

 

The choice to cheat could be the source of that destruction...or it could just be a symptom...but that choice still remains ENTIRELY the responsibility of the person who makes it.

[Radagast]

Totally agreed. It takes two to make a marriage...and only one to destroy it. It could be the result of both spouses, or either spouse not participating as need be to destroy the relationship.

 

The choice to cheat could be the source of that destruction...or it could just be a symptom...but that choice still remains ENTIRELY the responsibility of the person who makes it.

 

If, as you state

It takes two to make a marriage...and only one to destroy it. It could be the result of both spouses, or either spouse not participating as need be to destroy the relationship.

then my marriage to my ex-wife had been long destroyed before my affair, and my affair could not be considered "cheating" since there was no longer an extant marriage on which to cheat, surely?

[donnamaybe]

If, as you state then my marriage to my ex-wife had been long destroyed before my affair, and my affair could not be considered "cheating" since there was no longer an extant marriage on which to cheat, surely?

Until the divorce papers are signed, you are married.

[Owl]

If, as you state then my marriage to my ex-wife had been long destroyed before my affair, and my affair could not be considered "cheating" since there was no longer an extant marriage on which to cheat, surely?

 

Nope. Had you divorced her prior to your affair, I might agree. But...you didn't, and your wife clearly held the expectation that you were still married.

 

Just because you were unhappy in that relationship...that doesn't give an OK to cheat.

Your wife could have created an unhealthy marriage. But...you still personally own the responsibility for your own choice to cheat on her.

 

Hope that spelled out what I was trying to say in my previous post a little more clearly.

[jwi71]

If, as you state... then my marriage to my ex-wife had been long destroyed before my affair, and my affair could not be considered "cheating" since there was no longer an extant marriage on which to cheat, surely?

 

No.

 

Your xW (I'm pretty sure it is) perhaps largely contributed to an unhealthy M.

However, unless you can honestly say that you sought permission or otherwise informed your xW, then YOU decided to cope with it by cheating. In sum, she contributed, perhaps greatly, to a bad M but YOU chose to cheat.

 

No judgement intended, just the facts as I see them.

[jlola]

I agree with the saying "in many marriages facing infidelity the WS was the one not giving enough". Even though they were the ones complaining.

 

As with both parties taking blame for affair. I think many people do not take into account personality disorders,co-dependency,unrealistic expectations,emotional immaturity,love,sex or romance addictions and folks who are just plain selfish. No matter how great you are, they have issues that are deeper than you will ever be able to handle as a spouse.

 

My sister just got married for the 5th time this July. None of her relationships have lasted longer than 3 years. She married very young the first time. But always leaves for someone else. They are all the "love of her life" well, till infatuation stage leaves.

 

Anyway, Christmas of this year my mother thought something was off. She was already ignoring her new husband. She confessed to other sister she has been talking to an ex who told her letting her go was biggest mistake. Now the same pattern was happening, had to work late, go shopping etc.

 

Her husband ended up in hospital last week. Anxiety. He is going through what each of her ex husbands went through. Lots of heartache even though he treats her like a queen.

 

Every man she has married thought the previous husband did not do enough for her and he would be her savior. NOONE looks at her history. She is gorgeous with an amazing figure and a way of making anyone feel sorry for her. each one thinks he will be the "special one". Most were really nice guys,very educated,good incomes. Second husband was affair partner,so I actually never felt too bad when they both ended up cheating on each other..

 

I have learned from watching my sister,half sister and father, that you can be a great spouse. But if your partner has "issues" no matter what you do, how much support and love you give, they will need someone else to validate their self worth the second the relationship requires more "mature stage".

 

I sent my sister many articles on the stages of relationships. Also a couple of books to read so she could experience growth and understand the "infatuation stage " is just one stage and it does not last. She thought those theories did not make sense and would rather believe the hollywood version of soulmates and happy ever after.

 

Thing is, she is a smart women otherwise. I wonder what excuse she will use this time for her marriage going kaput. the blame is always on the ex. Never on her. she does nothing at all. But I have witnessed her checking out on her marriages since I was 14. She would simply stop trying and begin to ignore her BS. Meanwhile getting her validation and ego stroked elsewhere. All BS have been left very confused. My mother has been asked countless times how in the world my sister has so many great men lined up. she cannot figure it out either. But I think many men want to play savior to a broken women. many men will put up with so much from a beautiful broken woman. By the time she leaves, they blame themselves for whatever went wrong. Neglect is the perfect excuse. But from an outsider looking in, many people can see the cheater was the more selfish,entitled out of the couple. I rarely hear of a marriage breaking up and am surprised by who the cheater was. usually it is no surprise at all.

 

So I agree with the fact there are times when both people are responsible for the problems in the marriage(not for the cheating). But also agree many marriages have one very broken spouse who would cheat on anyone they are married to due to deeper issues than the spouse is aware of until it is too late!!

[wannabdone]

I hope you don't mind if I comment on this. I don't believe it is as cut and dried as your statement suggests. Some times it is not "much easier" at all.

 

I tried marital counselling with my ex-wife. She did not see the need for it as she did not find anything to be wrong with the marriage. If I was unhappy, she felt, the problem must be with me. We did separate. The effect on the children was devastating. The effect on my ex-wife was devastating. While I was happy during the separation, I could not in good conscience refuse my ex-wife's pleas to reconcile given how unhappy everybody else was. I thought that would be extremely selfish of me. However, after our getting back together again matters were soon as bad, or worse, than they had been prior to the separation. My ex-wife was unwilling to return to counselling. I did not feel I could subject my children to the trauma of separation again. When I was approached for an affair it genuinely seemed to me to be the best way out of a very unhappy situation. Hindsight has given me other data. Had I known then what I know now I would like to think I would have acted differently. However without the counselling I subsequently went through I don't think I would have had the emotional resources to deal with the situation any differently to the way I did at the time. A divorce at that point may have been cleaner, more honest and more honorable, but it certainly would not have been "much easier".

 

 

No, I love your input. And I understand what you are saying.

 

May I ask, are you still M?