Spouse's responsibility

[KeepMeInMind]

I don't blame anyone but myself and MM. Now, I could name REASONS why *I* didn't care if I hurt my H (he was verbally abusive, not there for me in time of need, narcissistic, etc and I was leaving his sorry ass anyway). But I am to blame for my A.

 

On the MM's side, I could name reasons, too, as to why he was missing something. But I could never, ever blame a BS. We are responsible for our own actions. The reasons I could name would simply explain why they need to D or work on some things. I don't think they can...they are just different people with different needs, even if they can and do live together peacefully.

[KeepMeInMind]

Sometimes peacefully is quite good and I would think you would get the appeal of that having been in an abusive relationship. I've been in a emotionally abusive relationship, (not an affair) and I so craved peace. Also it's naive to believe that marriage is going to fulfill all our needs and wants, which is what you seem to be implying above and yes I could be wrong. I hope you do realize that your mm will maximize the negative in his life to justify the affair and you will do the same. It's human nature.

 

 

Was speaking in general, I suppose. I think a lot of married people who enter into A's do it because they have a need that is not being met. Maybe their spouse is not affectionate and they are and crave it. Maybe they want to go out to eat, to a movie, to a social gathering, but their spouse is a homebody. Maybe they are dealing with a tough time in life, and their spouse is emotionally unavailable. Maybe their spouse doesn't meet their sexual needs.

[woinlove]

I do think there are people who don't have very good control of themselves and who react to others. They may easily yell at someone who irritates them, whether justified or not (e.g. they might perceive slights where there are none). Such people are usually considered immature and lacking in some basic people skills, perhaps lacking empathy for others, as they are often overly focussed on themselves. Some people who cheat may fall into this spectrum -- they might feel neglected by their spouse (whether justified or not) and then feel they are cheating because of their spouse. If so, they are unlikely to take responsibility for their own actions.

 

Mature people take responsibility for themselves and their own actions. They may still do things that they think are wrong or bad, but they know they made the decision to do that.

 

Radagast, did you ever think of just telling your ex-W that you were going to look outside your M for sex/companionship/love/whatever and that you would do it openly? It seems that the end result would be the same (either she or you would have filed for divorce at some point) but if you value honesty and loyalty, you would not have acted against your values.

[Owl]

Was speaking in general, I suppose. I think a lot of married people who enter into A's do it because they have a need that is not being met. Maybe their spouse is not affectionate and they are and crave it. Maybe they want to go out to eat, to a movie, to a social gathering, but their spouse is a homebody. Maybe they are dealing with a tough time in life, and their spouse is emotionally unavailable. Maybe their spouse doesn't meet their sexual needs.

 

Or maybe they're unhappy with something within themselves, not fufilled because they've not taken steps needed to become fulfilled?

 

You suggest all these possibilities that hinge on their spouse not meeting their needs...and no mention of the possibility that the person who is unfullfilled maybe the very source of that lack.

 

More and more, it seems to me that the people who seek infidelity as an answer are typically the source of the very unfullfillment that led them to that choice.

[woinlove]

Was speaking in general, I suppose. I think a lot of married people who enter into A's do it because they have a need that is not being met. Maybe their spouse is not affectionate and they are and crave it. Maybe they want to go out to eat, to a movie, to a social gathering, but their spouse is a homebody. Maybe they are dealing with a tough time in life, and their spouse is emotionally unavailable. Maybe their spouse doesn't meet their sexual needs.

 

I wonder if a lot of MM/MW who have affairs fall into this category. My own experience over decades of M is that I am happiest with my M when I am fully engaged, when I am tuned into to my H, sensitive to his needs and desires and actively showing support, empathy, love for him. While in times of stress or need, I may not give much and I take comfort in my H's support, my most joyous times come when I am actively engaged and giving.

 

MM/MW in affairs need to be able to conceal and probably compartmentalize to some degree, which works against being fully engaged and giving. Maybe some change just for their affairs, but I wonder how many weren't so giving in their M's even before the A, and consequently were less satisfied. Some may cheat because of their own limitations in participating in a long-term loving M which decreases their satisfaction in the M.

 

My guess would be people who are able to respond to a lack of affection or whatever from their spouse in a positive manner (communication, counselling, shift of focus, or even divorce) are more likely to have what it takes to hold up their own end in a positive R than those who resort to cheating. So I would first look at the person cheating for answers as to why they cheat, and be less inclined to look at their spouse.

[Barrsitter]

My wife had nothing what so ever to do with my awful choice to engage in an affair. She was, and is, a beautiful, supportive, sexy wife. And a terrific mother. My choices were completely my own. One of the problems with people today, in my eyes, is their complete inability to own their own choices and responsibilities.

 

May I ask....why did you engage in an EA?

[nofool4u]

I am 100% responsible for the problems I contributed to in our marriage.

 

You mean the problems in the marriage were all your fault?

 

Or did you mean that you are 100% responsible for YOUR part, and your spouse having their part in it?

[bentnotbroken]

You mean the problems in the marriage were all your fault?

 

Or did you mean that you are 100% responsible for YOUR part, and your spouse having their part in it?

 

 

The things that I did that hurt the marriage.

[nofool4u]

The things that I did that hurt the marriage.

 

So you are only 100% responsible for your behavior. The way it was worded, looked like you are all to blame, but I digress. I think everyone knew what you meant, just wanted to clarify in case someone didn't.

[KeepMeInMind]

Or maybe they're unhappy with something within themselves, not fufilled because they've not taken steps needed to become fulfilled?

 

You suggest all these possibilities that hinge on their spouse not meeting their needs...and no mention of the possibility that the person who is unfullfilled maybe the very source of that lack.

 

More and more, it seems to me that the people who seek infidelity as an answer are typically the source of the very unfullfillment that led them to that choice.

 

That, too.

[frozensprouts]

sorry if this is a bit "off topic", but the posts on here made me think...

 

so many couples with kids won't let their kids see them argue or disagree ...why? maybe kids do need to see that it's okay, even healthy to disagree of have an argument with your spouse ( mind you, I'm not talking about arguing in front of them every day, or having a shouting match or physical abuse or a knock down drag out fight...i mean an argument). ...arguing occasionally or disagreeing sometimes does not mean you can't be together or that you don't love each other, rather, it shows that having different feelings is okay, and there are two sides to every situation...both can be very valid...

my parents argued a few times in front of me, and they also made sure that i knew they'd "made up" and that it did not mean they don't love each other or couldn't ever get along, and that it's okay to express your feelings, even if they don't "mesh" with those of your spouse...in the end, it's possible to work things out and be happy

[KeepMeInMind]

I agree. I think it's good to show children that it's normal and healthy to disagree or argue, and then resolve the issue in a loving way. They may end up with unrealistic expectations of a healthy relationship if not.

 

It will also guide them and show them HOW to resolve such issues.

[OpenBook]

I'm just curious how many people think the betrayed spouse should take responsibility for their spouse's affair?

 

I hope all the BS's here are sitting down... I do NOT believe a betrayed spouse should assume responsibility for their WS's A. <<<OpenBook ducks>>>

 

However, I DO believe the A should be a clear wake-up call to the BS that THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG IN THEIR M - and they haven't been paying attention!! It's an indicator, a symptom of underlying problem(s) within the M that are going unresolved. I will never believe what many BS's claim here that sometimes happily-married people cheat. Happily-married people do not cheat on their spouses. PERIOD.

 

I would love to see BS's take the bull by the horns and take charge of themselves and their M. Deal with the problem directly - their WS, their M, themselves, whatever it is. Don't go running off in an entirely irrelevant direction attacking every OW they can find posting on anonymous Internet forums!! Such a waste of time and energy, and it solves NOTHING.

 

It takes two to tango in a M. Both people in it are equally responsible for its health. And when it fails, BOTH people are responsible for its failure.

 

My two pence.

Edited April 3, 2012 by OpenBook

[SidLyon]

I hope all the BS's here are sitting down... I do NOT believe a betrayed spouse should assume responsibility for their WS's A. <<<OpenBook ducks>>>

 

However, I DO believe the A should be a clear wake-up call to the BS that THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG IN THEIR M - and they haven't been paying attention!! It's an indicator, a symptom of underlying problem(s) within the M that are going unresolved. I will never believe what many BS's claim here that sometimes happily-married people cheat. Happily-married people do not cheat on their spouses. PERIOD.

 

I would love to see BS's take the bull by the horns and take charge of themselves and their M. Deal with the problem directly - their WS, their M, themselves, whatever it is. Don't go running off in an entirely irrelevant direction attacking every OW they can find posting on anonymous Internet forums!! Such a waste of time and energy, and it solves NOTHING.

 

It takes two to tango in a M. Both people in it are equally responsible for its health. And when it fails, BOTH people are responsible for its failure.

 

My two pence.

 

I agree with most of this.

 

To be honest I feel that as a BW who is 3.5 years past d-day, I have done what you've said about dealing with and fixing problems within the marriage.

 

Somewhat tongue in cheek I can also say there would be room to also 'attack every OW I can find on internet forums', but I don't of course.

 

Even if I did, it wouldn't change that our marriage is pretty well reconciled after an enormous amount of introspection and somewhat enjoyable effort on both our parts.

 

I could take you more seriously if you didn't SHOUT at BSs quite so often in your posts, but that is your decision of course.

[KeepMeInMind]

Umm...what??

[bentnotbroken]

I hope all the BS's here are sitting down... I do NOT believe a betrayed spouse should assume responsibility for their WS's A. <<<OpenBook ducks>>>

:lmao::lmao:

However, I DO believe the A should be a clear wake-up call to the BS that THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG IN THEIR M - and they haven't been paying attention!! It's an indicator, a symptom of underlying problem(s) within the M that are going unresolved. I will never believe what many BS's claim here that sometimes happily-married people cheat. Happily-married people do not cheat on their spouses. PERIOD.

 

I would love to see BS's take the bull by the horns and take charge of themselves and their M. Deal with the problem directly - their WS, their M, themselves, whatever it is. Don't go running off in an entirely irrelevant direction attacking every OW they can find posting on anonymous Internet forums!! Such a waste of time and energy, and it solves NOTHING.

 

It takes two to tango in a M. Both people in it are equally responsible for its health. And when it fails, BOTH people are responsible for its failure.

 

My two pence.

 

The only thing I take issue with is not knowing things weren't right. I knew, asked for counseling, went alone until he complained about "too much money", tried to change the things he said was wrong. Gaslighted for years. I agree that partners are responsible for the health of a relationship. What I have a problem with is the belief that most BS ignored issues. I am sure there are some, but the experiences of many are of trying to deal and being dismissed as all in your head.

[melenkurion]

maybe kids do need to see that it's okay, even healthy to disagree of have an argument with your spouse...

 

I agree. This is very important, actually. It's something it's taken me a lifetime to learn: the world doesn't fall apart when people have an argument. Kids ought to learn healthy ways to resolve conflicts, they should not be lead to believe that conflict doesn't happen, that it gets smoothed over and never dealt with, or simply avoided altogether. An important lesson is that you can disagree and still love each other.

[beenburned]

I know most people want to believe that the marriage contributed in some way to the spouse cheating, but sometimes it is just NOT so.

 

For example: Someone married young, has kids soon after,new home, cars, etc.

This is a lot of responsibility on the shoulders of someone who might not be mature enough to handle the stress well.(even though they wanted all this at that time)

 

If they have always been a selfish, self centered person,plus immature, they are more than likely wishing to be carefree and single again.(especially if all their friends are still single)

 

They probably will choose to do what they want, behind the spouses back. They think what she doesn't know won't hurt her, especially when it looks like all their single friends are having so much fun.

 

Their flings have no depth, only for sex with different people.(pretending to be single again)

 

Only when they have a d-day and have to face the consequences of their actions, do they realize just how warped and immature their thinking was.

 

There are many cheating people that have serious issues within themselves that has nothing to do with anybody else.

[Gentlegirl2]

Only the MM and his W know where the responsibility is in any scenario.

 

Their views might also differ.

 

I don't think there is any rule that can be applied.

 

 

GG

[Angelina527]

As the faithful spouse, I so appreciate the honesty and insight it took you to reach this conclusion.

 

It's validating to have someone who has been in both positions to re-inforce what I have so often stated about my sitch, sometimes to some fairly harsh responses.

 

It's what so many of us have posted and here is the inverse: If I was in the same cold, loveless, sexless marriage, why didn't I have an affair or divorce?

 

I had no idea how miserable he was; he never expressed it!

 

The more the affair took hold, the more miserable he grew with me and the marriage (justification).

 

This is the same repeating behavior over and over again, unless it is fixed.

 

I'm sorry you had to live this, to understand it.

 

Here is advice straight from several therapist's mouth: If someone starts to complain about their marriage the ONLY response is "I know the name of a good therapist. Here's their phone number." and then, CHANGE THE SUBJECT!

 

Otherwise, you leave yourself very vulnerable in getting sucked into a triangulated relationship.

 

How horribly did he paint his xwife?

 

As you got to interaact (assuming you did) with her, how off the mark was his portrayal of her?

 

How were you protrayed to his fAP?

 

Spark, I am sorry that I haven't been able to answer your questions until now.

 

My husband didn't paint his ex wife with the monster brush, but the things he did tell me left me with the impression of a cold unaffectionate woman who was also very selfish. Since our d-day, he has admitted that he was probably over exaggerating some of his complaints, but even if he wasn't, the affair was still not her fault. He could have just left.

 

She and I have never interacted...they don't have kids and I always stayed out of their business whenever they would have discussions after the divorce. As a matter of fact, it's been 8 years and she still contacts him on occasion and I stay out of it.

 

My husband, by all accounts, didn't paint ME with the monster brush, either, but he did let the OW come to her own conclusions and didn't tell her any differently. I was portrayed as someone who wasn't pulling her own weight in the marriage...the OW was childless and so had this idea that my husband shouldn't have to do any normal "family" type work. For instance, "If you were with me, you would NEVER have to pick up the kids from practice while she makes dinner.I would do both."

 

She just had no clue.

 

Sadly, neither did I.

[Angelina527]

I hope all the BS's here are sitting down... I do NOT believe a betrayed spouse should assume responsibility for their WS's A. <<<OpenBook ducks>>>

 

However, I DO believe the A should be a clear wake-up call to the BS that THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG IN THEIR M - and they haven't been paying attention!! It's an indicator, a symptom of underlying problem(s) within the M that are going unresolved. I will never believe what many BS's claim here that sometimes happily-married people cheat. Happily-married people do not cheat on their spouses. PERIOD.

 

I would love to see BS's take the bull by the horns and take charge of themselves and their M. Deal with the problem directly - their WS, their M, themselves, whatever it is. Don't go running off in an entirely irrelevant direction attacking every OW they can find posting on anonymous Internet forums!! Such a waste of time and energy, and it solves NOTHING.

 

It takes two to tango in a M. Both people in it are equally responsible for its health. And when it fails, BOTH people are responsible for its failure.

 

My two pence.

 

Yes, there was something wrong...my husband was having an affair!! We were happily married, but he wasn't happy with himself.

[beenburned]

I think most WS's are either passive-agressive or conflict avoiders by nature.

 

Therefore, that's why most don't let the BW know they feel there are problems, either in the marriage or with the BW. No one is a mind reader, so if they can't or don't speak up, then they are doing themselves and their wife a grave injustice.

 

Then there are the WS's that don't have any problems in the marriage or with the spouse. In order to feel justified with their cheating, they deliberately create arguements to have an excuse to storm out the door and do what they want.

 

But in both situations, they still choose to take the opportunity presented to cheat.(or go looking for it)

[Spark1111]

Spark, I am sorry that I haven't been able to answer your questions until now.

 

My husband didn't paint his ex wife with the monster brush, but the things he did tell me left me with the impression of a cold unaffectionate woman who was also very selfish. Since our d-day, he has admitted that he was probably over exaggerating some of his complaints, but even if he wasn't, the affair was still not her fault. He could have just left.

 

She and I have never interacted...they don't have kids and I always stayed out of their business whenever they would have discussions after the divorce. As a matter of fact, it's been 8 years and she still contacts him on occasion and I stay out of it.

 

My husband, by all accounts, didn't paint ME with the monster brush, either, but he did let the OW come to her own conclusions and didn't tell her any differently. I was portrayed as someone who wasn't pulling her own weight in the marriage...the OW was childless and so had this idea that my husband shouldn't have to do any normal "family" type work. For instance, "If you were with me, you would NEVER have to pick up the kids from practice while she makes dinner.I would do both."

 

She just had no clue.

 

Sadly, neither did I.

 

Ahhhh.....my H did the same thing. He allowed her to draw her own conclusions, which, because she was falling for him, was oh, so easy to do.

 

The best one? I MUST have a lover on the side too, and he started to believe that. If that is not the height of delusional thinking, I do not know what is!

 

She would say exactly the same sort of things, to ratchet up the unspoken competition and to convince, convince, convince him she would be SUCH a better steward of him.

 

This is a man looking for a perfect mommy to love him. I hope he is in IC, otherwise the pattern can keep repeating.

 

That's why I say affairs are a symptom, and not always of issues in the marriage, but more often of issues, UNRESOLVED, within the cheater.

[freestyle]

Just wanted to comment about the above.

 

Not too long before I found out the truth about xmm, that he was in fact married instead of separated, I had came across some things about conflict avoidance and passive aggressiveness because prior to that, I wasn't familiar with the terms or what it was. It was like a lightbulb moment because during our 1st go around, I recalled him talking about how much he hated arguing and fighting with someone and he talked of his relationship with his 1st wife and gave examples of how difficult she was. He even said and I quote, "I will do anything to avoid an argument". At that time, I did not realize that a statement like that can be so dangerous or that it is a huge warning sign neither did I see the warning flags when he blamed all the problems of his 1st marriage on her either. Yep........smack me, ok. lol

 

Later on, I noticed the pa also. One example comes to mind. After I found out the truth, his wife and I kept him in the dark for a while, to come up with a plan. Her and I decided to meet up over drinks and dinner one night to talk and I omitted some things about that night to him. I told him I was with my bff, I was but I didn't tell him that I was having dinner with his wife. lol Anyway, we were talking so much, that time slipped away and it was past the time I said I'd call him. He was pissed.......never said it but the next morning, he would not answer his phone. PA, much? PA is a nasty, nasty thing. I suspect that has a whole lot of why he is the **** he is. He doesn't have the balls to tell anyone he is angry and I think he has been very angry at his mommy for a long time. I think inside he hates women but he is a master at covering it up under a nice guy image. Women who are unaware of men who are conflict avoiders and PA tendencies are in danger.

 

 

 

Passive-aggression is truly an insidious behvaior.

 

A P/A person will pretend that everything is sunshine and roses, and smile to your face---while his/her internal voice is saying...

 

"Just wait! I'll show YOU..........." "grrr!!!......"

 

 

Often because they're still angry about something that happened weeks/months/years ago, but never expressed it. So, the anger comes out passively, or covertly.

 

 

Also, a P/A person is far more likely to discuss their anger with your perceived shortcomings with everyone BUT you----(creating fertile ground for sowing the seeds of an affair)

 

 

This is why I take issue with the presumption that a BS *must be* aware of the issues in the marriage/relationship ,that can lead to an affair. It's not always the case.

[beenburned]

freestyle,

 

You know, it's down right scarey to never know when you are going to be stabbed in the back by the person that is supposed to have your best interest at heart!

 

We are now at the age when our parents are dying or in failing health. We went with them to get medical POA's drawn up about their last wishes.

 

Is it horrible to think that your spouse might not carry out your wishes? Or have your best interest at heart, when you are incapable of taking care of yourself?

 

Is my lack of total trust showing?