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freestyle,

 

You know, it's down right scarey to never know when you are going to be stabbed in the back by the person that is supposed to have your best interest at heart!:eek:

 

We are now at the age when our parents are dying or in failing health. We went with them to get medical POA's drawn up about their last wishes.:(

 

Is it horrible to think that your spouse might not carry out your wishes? Or have your best interest at heart, when you are incapable of taking care of yourself?

 

Is my lack of total trust showing?:laugh:

 

 

Maybe ...just a little?:p

 

I'm in a similar place emotionally right now---I've been through the wringer with P/A behaviors from a handful of people in my life, over the years. Not just in cases of infidelity, either.

 

I have to say, it has shaken me to the core. :(

 

 

I think the only way to not be taken in by it, is to study it, & understand it as fully as possible. To learn to recognize it , when it's happening.

 

My belief is that even the most emotionally healthy person can experience a passive-aggressive blip now & then---I'll admit that I find myself thinking that way once in a while, if someone really gets under my skin.It can be a knee-jerk reaction.

 

The *"I'll show YOU"* train of thought will start its engine-----The trick is, I've learned how to stop that train in its tracks.;) I don't let it carry me away.

 

Perhaps I've finally achieved a little bit of maturity in my middle age. *chuckle*

 

The sad thing is ----not enough people seem to take the time to put their OWN thought processes under the microscope---and fall into the P/A mindset:

 

It's always someone ELSE's fault".........

"I need to be one step ahead at all times..."

 

"It's me vs. the rest of the world.........."

 

 

That type of thinking--viewing things in an adversarial spirit, rather than a cooperative spirit, can cause P/A to become ingrained into a personality. Often times the infidelity is a symptom of much deeper issues on the part of a WS.

 

 

 

I have to admit---Now, I'm more leery of people who seem to never be angry---I'm more comfortable with people who vent it out now & then. At least I know what they're really thinking.

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freestyle,

 

You know, it's down right scarey to never know when you are going to be stabbed in the back by the person that is supposed to have your best interest at heart!:eek:

 

We are now at the age when our parents are dying or in failing health. We went with them to get medical POA's drawn up about their last wishes.:(

 

Is it horrible to think that your spouse might not carry out your wishes? Or have your best interest at heart, when you are incapable of taking care of yourself?

 

Is my lack of total trust showing?:laugh:

 

 

No my dear... Your intellegence is showing. Unfortunately we all learn at some point that anyone could hurt us. Life is a guarantee that everyone will have our best interests at heart and will always love us. We are basically entitiled to death and taxes.

 

Spouses, parents, children, sisters and brothers can all be selfish at some point, and do what they want to do and not think of us.

 

Just the hard core truth.

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May I ask....why did you engage in an EA?[/QUOT

 

Wasn't very emotional. For me at least. Just for sex. I was a very selfish young man.

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Stellar Wench
I'm just curious how many people think the betrayed spouse should take responsibility for their spouse's affair?

 

When my husband and I were having our (very short) affair, I felt like it was all his BW's fault. He told me that she wasn't communicative. He said their marriage was sexless and that she was very conservative with any type of affection. I thought to myself, how could anyone live like that?

 

I guess that was my justification for being involved with him. I blamed her totally and completely.

 

Now on to my husband cheating on me. On DDay I kept asking what I had done to cause the cheating, but it didn't make sense to me. We had sex all the time and I was affectionate and supportive in all areas of his life.

 

Then it hit me; the problem wasn't about ME or his ex-wife...the problem was with my husband. He didn't come to me and tell me that he was feeling unhappy with himself, so how could I help him fix it? He now admits that he didn't go to his ex wife with his issues, either.

 

I now realize that the affair is never the BS's fault...if the cheating partner can't come clean with their issues, then that's on them.

 

I feel badly for blaming her.

 

It's amazing how once we fOW are in the BS's shoes, things become much more clear.

Would you still have a sour opinion of the BS if there hadn't been a DDay?
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I'm just curious how many people think the betrayed spouse should take responsibility for their spouse's affair?

 

I think it depends on the person and the situation. I think sometimes it might be because of the spouse or the marriage and sometimes because of the person themselves. I think my xMM was very damaged and I don't think he had good coping skills and he had a very hard and difficult growing up and was always trying to compensate for it. He did not cheat with his first wife but she did and he divorced her and I think he was looking for a "perfect fit" to replace the idealised parent-child relationship he never had so he could not find it with any one woman so he had to supplement what he could find with one woman with other things that were missing that he got elsewhere. Unless there was a "perfect fit" woman somewhere on the planet that would have met his every need which I very much doubt then he was always going to be missing out on those missing bits and looking for them somewhere else.

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Angelina527
Would you still have a sour opinion of the BS if there hadn't been a DDay?

 

I would hope not, but I honestly do not know.

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bentnotbroken
Totally this. The grass is greener where you water it. Of course the affair seems soooo much more fulfilling for a while, it's the thing you're putting effort into. I take absolutely no responsibility for WH cheating. We did not have a bad marriage. Any needs that weren't being met they were those he didn't seek to have met. And if it was so bad how come I didn't cheat? We are in te same marriage after all.

 

Nope, no responsibility. WH and OW got it covered :)

 

 

And on the top of a septic tank, that's my opinion of what affairs are made of. Because usually the shiggity hits the fan and everyone gets covered and funky. :sick:

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I’m a FBS (former Betrayed Spouse) and I’ve got a few thoughts on the matter.

 

First, my husband is fully 100% responsible for his actions. He’s the one who allowed this other person to enter the picture. Whether he pursued her or not is irrelevant, whether she pursued him or not is irrelevant,…what is relevant is that it happened. I don’t much care who did the chasing, I’m not stupid, I know that advances were mutually offered and accepted. Times allowed my wounds to heal over, for the most part, but I am forever changed.

 

Second, the xOW is fully 100% responsible for her actions. She’s the one who knew he was married to me and she entered the picture anyway. I don’t much care if she did the chasing or he did the chasing, for the same reason. It happened and I had to deal with it. She got hurt. I’m sorry for that, but it was her choice to enter the picture. She took a chance that didn’t pan out for her the way she expected. The pain inflicted upon her for her actions is all on her.

 

Third, I am a thinking, feeling, intelligent woman who can and will make up my own mind. I do not need him to tell me what or how to think, act, or feel. I really do not like the misconceptions of some OW where they think that wife just blindly believes everything that the husband says about the affair.

 

I think that for the OW to blame the W for her H’s cheating is delusional. If I had that type of control over him he would have come talk to me first…well, before the affair happened.

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I’m a FBS (former Betrayed Spouse) and I’ve got a few thoughts on the matter.

 

First, my husband is fully 100% responsible for his actions. He’s the one who allowed this other person to enter the picture. Whether he pursued her or not is irrelevant, whether she pursued him or not is irrelevant,…what is relevant is that it happened. I don’t much care who did the chasing, I’m not stupid, I know that advances were mutually offered and accepted. Times allowed my wounds to heal over, for the most part, but I am forever changed.

 

Second, the xOW is fully 100% responsible for her actions. She’s the one who knew he was married to me and she entered the picture anyway. I don’t much care if she did the chasing or he did the chasing, for the same reason. It happened and I had to deal with it. She got hurt. I’m sorry for that, but it was her choice to enter the picture. She took a chance that didn’t pan out for her the way she expected. The pain inflicted upon her for her actions is all on her.

 

Third, I am a thinking, feeling, intelligent woman who can and will make up my own mind. I do not need him to tell me what or how to think, act, or feel. I really do not like the misconceptions of some OW where they think that wife just blindly believes everything that the husband says about the affair.

 

I think that for the OW to blame the W for her H’s cheating is delusional. If I had that type of control over him he would have come talk to me first…well, before the affair happened.

 

Danie I like your post!

 

Before the A, I begged my H to go to counseling. Not that I was unhappy, but he sure was. He said no, so I went alone.

 

Then, he crashed into her.

 

When DDay hit, both I and my young adult children were stunned. We both asked him: Why didn't you tell us?

 

We could have separated, and although it would have hurt to discover he had developed feelings for another, I am, and have always been, an adult about such matters.

 

We could have gone to counseling to see if there was a marriage worth saving. While he pursued the depth of his feelings for her, I, too, could have dated to see if there was someone out there happier to be with me.

 

He would have maintained his self-respect by being honest. He would have retained his integrity and the respect of his wife albeit painful) and his children, family and friends.

 

He did not have to lie, sneak, and betray us to be with another woman. And you are right. She knew he was married, so if she chose to believe whatever lies he fed her to make her wait, wait, wait, wait, well.....none of them were true. He could have left the day he wanted to.

 

We loved him enough and we would have let him go had he just been HONEST with us.

 

I am not to blame for my H acting like an arrogant, sneaky, rebellious 17-year old. Even my 18-year old told him that at Dday.:eek:

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findingnemo

I find it hard to understand why anyone would think that it's usually the spouse's fault that their partner cheated. How do people figure this?

 

The cheaters I know have different kinds of BS'. Some of them are horrible, argumentative, etc. Some are wonderful, calm and loving. Others are the epitome of beauty and still others not. The cheaters who have extra beautiful Ws or the most handsome H, come up with their reasons such as the partner was absent or didn't give enough X, Y, Z. The ones who have not so beautiful/handsome spouses claim they couldn't resist the other person because of their looks. Others claim their partners don't pull enough weight at home. For those who have partners who are near perfect, they will find an excuse.

 

Ultimately, the common factor is that the cheater chose to cheat, period. Given all the reasons they give for it, how come others with the same issues don't cheat? I think cheating is a response to a situation. However it is deemed a bad response. When your kids are starving and you are in charge of petty cash at the office, your response to the stressful situation could be to steal. Or it could be to find another way to get some cash. Same goes with cheating. It's a choice, it's an informed response. Legally it is deemed pre-meditated. Why? Because you don't just bump into someone and accidentally find yourself in the missionary position. It takes some planning, negotiation... you have to come to an agreement with the AP.

 

So how can the spouse be held responsible for all that? If at any given point the spouse had been informed, I'm sure even if a MM/MW slept with another person, it wouldn't really be cheating now would it? One can't be held responsible for another person's actions unless one had a hand in helping them plan and executive said actions or unless one had prior knowledge of them.

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UpwardForward

I think that while the two in the marriage share the responsibility to keep the marriage good, the unfaithful one(s) should be held accountable for reaching outside the marriage. It's a lack of faith.

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frozensprouts

( please take no offense when I say the following, it's just an opinion and is not meant to insult anyone)...

 

I really think that for a lot of other men/women, there is a need to believe that their affair partner's marriage must be bad , their spouse must be horrible, and that their affair partner is desperately unhappy but has no way out.

while that may be the case sometimes, there's lots of times that it's not the case at all...the marriage isn't terrible, the spouse is not horrible and their affair partner isn't desperately unhappy and they could, if they really wanted to, leave the marriage....but they choose not to

 

if that is the case, then what would that say about their affair partner? It could perhaps indicate that the married man/woman has something in their personality that allows them to see cheating as a viable option for them...and that since it is, does this mean their affair partner will , should they end up together, cheat on them as well? It may be easier to believe that their affair partner is stuck in a terrible place, otherwise they would never, ever cheat.

 

Personally,my opinion is that most marriages where one spouse cheats are not horrible, they are just ordinary...they go through all the same ups and downs as all marraiges, but, for whatever reason, one spouse sees cheating as solution to the "down times" in their marriage. Often, rather than talk to their spouse about it ( that would be very difficult) they take the "easier" way out and cheat. Meanwhile, to hide their cheating , they resort to all kinds of psychological "tricks" to either convince their spouse everything is fine so they won't suspect cheating, or they do things that make their spouse feel like they are walking on eggshells because their spouse's temperament has suddenly become so mercurial. I don't think the cheating spouse always does this on purpose, sometimes they do it because of guilt, sorrow or just plain "mental exhaustion" from trying to keep both relationships going.

 

There are also those spouses who never talk to their husband/wife when something is wrong, and also spouses who cheat for reason's that have nothing to do with their husband/wife or marriage...I think these people are desperately seeking something, but don't really know what it is...

 

as for placing ultimate responsibility for cheating ...I think that there's more than enough to go around, with the bulk of it being placed at the feet of of the wayward spouse, after all, they are the ones who made the decision to cheat...there are other, much better ways to solve their problems than cheating...but they didn't put the effort in to try and find them

 

( this doesn't always mean that people who have an affair are horrible and awful people, or "predators" or "psychopaths" or even "narcissists"... some are, but I would hazard the guess that most are decent people who made some pretty cr@ppy choices- mind you, I think serial cheaters ( and serial other men/women) are a of a different stripe, and while I don't believe that they, for the most part, are "evil", I do think that they have some pretty deep seated, serious issues, and their time would be better spent trying to sort that part of themselves out rather than getting involved in affairs...

 

as always, just my opinions...feel free to disagree and let me now your thoughts..always interested to hear them :)

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My xMM told me that when he M his BS he knew there were things he was giving up, things he wanted that she did not have to offer. She was very clear from the word go what and how she was. Maybe since he was young he thought he could change these things, idk. However, I see things differently now than I did when I was involved with him. Where I used to look at it like "why can she not change to give him what he needs?", I look at it as "why does he think he has the right to be mad at her for being who she was years ago"... she was okay then for him to marry her, he decided to marry her, even though she was "missing" things he needed. So now that he has been M to her for 10 years he is unhappy with that?? Seems a little unfair. Whether I agree with the kind of person she is or not, she made it very clear as to who she was way back then. So if he doesn't like that, or has come to the conclusion that he can not live with someone who is "missing" certain things, then he should have D her and moved on. Not had an A.

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No, I love your input. And I understand what you are saying.

 

May I ask, are you still M?

 

Yes. Best thing I ever did. No regrets there.

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I think that while the two in the marriage share the responsibility to keep the marriage good, the unfaithful one(s) should be held accountable for reaching outside the marriage. It's a lack of faith.

 

I find this statement interesting.

 

I was loyal and faithful to my ex-wife for several decades. Eventually after years of trying, of unsuccessful marriage counselling, an abortive separation and a failed reconciliation, I gave in to an affair. I would call that exhaustion and depletion of alternative solutions rather than simply "a lack of faith".

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I find this statement interesting.

 

I was loyal and faithful to my ex-wife for several decades. Eventually after years of trying, of unsuccessful marriage counselling, an abortive separation and a failed reconciliation, I gave in to an affair. I would call that exhaustion and depletion of alternative solutions rather than simply "a lack of faith".

 

No one "gives in" to an affair.

 

Did your other woman stalk you relentlessly? Throw herself shamelessly at you? Stalk you in the parking lot? Leave her undergarments on your windshield, and threaten to go to the police unless you agreed to "be with her"?

 

Good grief.

 

Unless she's some kind of crazy woman stalker, I just don't buy the "depletion of alternative solutions". Face it...you opted to cheat on your wife. You made your own, seperate choice to pursue that path. You are responsible for that DECISION.

 

Unless your OW somehow coerced you into this, I don't buy this passive, wishy-washy viewpoint that you had no other options.

 

You've always had options...you just never took any of them until you finally DECIDED that it was ok for you to cheat.

 

Don't take me wrong...perhaps your marriage was in bad state. But...don't act like that somehow suddenly makes cheating (just like your wife did to you) ok in some fashion. Divorce, seperation, etc... You had options...you CHOSE infidelity as your out.

 

Own it, be responsible for it, and stop blaming your ex-wife for it.

 

You seem to go through a lot of effort to put all the blame on her here. I'm curious why that is?

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Some folks are incapable of being alone. Perhaps that has come into play in this instance. However, wouldn't that be an issue better sorted out with a therapist PRIOR to getting with someone else? :confused:

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No one "gives in" to an affair.

 

Did your other woman stalk you relentlessly? Throw herself shamelessly at you? Stalk you in the parking lot? Leave her undergarments on your windshield, and threaten to go to the police unless you agreed to "be with her"?

 

Good grief.

 

Unless she's some kind of crazy woman stalker, I just don't buy the "depletion of alternative solutions". Face it...you opted to cheat on your wife. You made your own, seperate choice to pursue that path. You are responsible for that DECISION.

 

Unless your OW somehow coerced you into this, I don't buy this passive, wishy-washy viewpoint that you had no other options.

 

You've always had options...you just never took any of them until you finally DECIDED that it was ok for you to cheat.

 

Don't take me wrong...perhaps your marriage was in bad state. But...don't act like that somehow suddenly makes cheating (just like your wife did to you) ok in some fashion. Divorce, seperation, etc... You had options...you CHOSE infidelity as your out.

 

Own it, be responsible for it, and stop blaming your ex-wife for it.

 

You seem to go through a lot of effort to put all the blame on her here. I'm curious why that is?

 

I think you misunderstood the point of my post. I was not claiming that I "fell into" an affair. Clearly I did not. I made the choice to engage and I have never denied that. What I was stating was that it was not "simply" a case of a lack of faith that led to that situation. It was the culmination of thirty-odd years of hard effort, of trying all options that were available to me and that included turning down other opportunities for affairs that were presented over the years. Had it been simply a matter of "a lack of faith" I would have jumped ship at the earliest opportunity instead of sticking it out and fighting to keep the family together for our children and trying to make things work.

 

I did have options that is true and I tried them. I tried speaking to my ex-wife, many times. She refused to consider marriage counselling, since she claimed that the marriage was happy and if I had a problem then it was my problem and not a problem of the marriage. We had a trial separation, but she begged to come home and the children were terribly unhappy so I agreed on the condition that we go to marriage counselling, which she agreed to and then dropped out of. It's true that at that point I could have thrown her out for not keeping her end of the bargain but I did not want to upset the children again so soon after the disruption so I tried to address my issues with her in other ways. At that point I did feel extremely vulnerable and I did feel like I had exhausted all my options and was trapped in an unhappy situation until the children were old enough.

 

Yes I did have the option of divorce, though as I stated I did not consider that to be an option at the time because of the children's response to the separation. So yes I chose to have an affair. I thought that it would allow me to stay married a little longer if I could get some of the things I really needed somewhere else so that I was not so frustrated that I could not get them from my marriage. It was my choice. I do not deny that. But it was not "simply" a question of a lack of faith. It was a last ditch attempt on my part to keep my family together.

 

Of course that was foolish and of course in retrospect I should never have taken my ex-wife back when she begged. I should have been firm and I should have insisted on my own right to happiness instead of putting that aside and being more concerned about the children. In retrospect I understand that the separation could have been handled a lot better by my insisting on counselling and by my setting very firm boundaries and sticking to those. The children's unhappiness could have been better managed. My ex-wife's falling to pieces could have been better managed. But back then I did not have that hindsight and I took the decisions I took, believing at the time that those were the best I could make at the time.

 

The point of my post was simple. I object to claims that having an affair is some kind of easy option that one takes the minute the going gets at all tough. In my case that was certainly not true. It was the last of many strategies I had tried for dealing with an unsustainable marriage, and it certainly was not an "easy" option. The easiest option by far for me would have been to refuse to allow my ex-wife to return from the separation, to insist on enjoying my new-found happiness and to hell with anyone else or what they wanted or needed! That would have been far easier than trying to juggle an unhappy "home life" with an alternative that became increasingly attractive and increasingly viable and increasingly tempting, to the point where I had to cut off the life-support that was artificially keeping the marriage alive and bury it.

 

It may have been a "bad" choice but it was not an easy one nor one made selfishly or for want of effort.

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I'm just curious how many people think the betrayed spouse should take responsibility for their spouse's affair?

 

When my husband and I were having our (very short) affair, I felt like it was all his BW's fault. He told me that she wasn't communicative. He said their marriage was sexless and that she was very conservative with any type of affection. I thought to myself, how could anyone live like that?

 

I guess that was my justification for being involved with him. I blamed her totally and completely.

 

Now on to my husband cheating on me. On DDay I kept asking what I had done to cause the cheating, but it didn't make sense to me. We had sex all the time and I was affectionate and supportive in all areas of his life.

 

Then it hit me; the problem wasn't about ME or his ex-wife...the problem was with my husband. He didn't come to me and tell me that he was feeling unhappy with himself, so how could I help him fix it? He now admits that he didn't go to his ex wife with his issues, either.

 

I now realize that the affair is never the BS's fault...if the cheating partner can't come clean with their issues, then that's on them.

 

I feel badly for blaming her.

 

It's amazing how once we fOW are in the BS's shoes, things become much more clear.

 

No I don't think she is responsible for his affair. I think she is for her affair but I don't think the other put a gun to their head and made them do it. Just like my exhusband never forced me to have an affair.

 

I agree that we all need to own our issues and work to resolving them so that future relationships can be successful. I am sorry to hear that your husband is cheating on you. Did he ever do therapy? Did he ever own any part of his previous marriage?

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I'm just curious how many people think the betrayed spouse should take responsibility for their spouse's affair?

 

I know you disproved this at the bottom of your post, but for those still considering this BULL**** QUESTION

 

Wow... really? Might as well blame the victim of a murder because he/she did not put up a fight.

 

The cheater is to blame, period... in fact, the affair gives the BS a black check... sorry, that's just how life works out.

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despicableME

Many spouses have a hand in the marriage troubles, but none should be held responsible for their SO's affair. An affair is a personal choice based on an individual's moral compass.

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Many spouses have a hand in the marriage troubles, but none should be held responsible for their SO's affair. An affair is a personal choice based on an individual's moral compass.

 

This is a succinct response that makes sense. Meanwhile, Radagast's explanation that he had an affair for the sake of his children and spouse, and not out of selfishness, is the type of rationalization one sees from people who are unable to accept responsibility for their own choices.

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frozensprouts
This is a succinct response that makes sense. Meanwhile, Radagast's explanation that he had an affair for the sake of his children and spouse, and not out of selfishness, is the type of rationalization one sees from people who are unable to accept responsibility for their own choices.

 

makes sense...

i read his response, and to be honest, the idea that " i had an affair for the sake of my children, as divorcing my wife would have been too hard on them" seems like a real cop out. Funny how that rationalization works to make cheating on his wife sound okay, but it didn't matter when he wanted to divorce his wife so he could be with his other woman full time.

 

the simple truth is that people cheat because they want to. It doesn't automatically make them a horrible person.

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Angelina527
I know you disproved this at the bottom of your post, but for those still considering this BULL**** QUESTION

 

Wow... really? Might as well blame the victim of a murder because he/she did not put up a fight.

 

The cheater is to blame, period... in fact, the affair gives the BS a black check... sorry, that's just how life works out.

 

I's not a bull**** question. I can't tell you how many times I've read OW on here blaming the wife for their husband being unfaithful.

 

Do you mean BLANK check? Otherwise, I'm not sure what you mean.

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I disagree slightly. I think it is not possible to be a good or nice person during an affair. Nice people do not do something that horrible to others. But it is possible to be a nice person before and to learn from it and become a better person afterwards.

 

But the whole "I'm a nice person even though I had an affair" thing? I don't buy that. xOW says that in her emails all the time. Actions speak louder than words. She isn't a good person and she had a looong way to go. WS is not an especially good person right now but he is trying and I see that. He definitely wasn't during the affair though! He agrees too. He has said that if he'd left he would really be committing to being a bad person forever and I think that's pretty true. A man who would leave a living an devoted wife and 3 small children cannot be a good person. A man who made a huge mistake and came back from a near miss at ruining all those lives- he can be a good person.

I’m a former BW, never an OW and never a WS…so take this for what it’s worth…

 

To me this sounds like a justification for you to take him back…it’s a bit wishy-washy if you ask me. He’s a good person because he chose you and not her. He’s a good person because he chose to not leave you and the kids. He’s a good person because he dogged a bullet in remaining married to you. None of that makes him a good person…what makes him a good person is how he expresses what is in his heart and mind when no one is looking.

 

I think nice people get involved in affairs because they are somehow lost inside themselves. It’s easy to eat up attention if you’re struggling with depression or what-have-you. Just like it’s easy for some to drink away their troubles or eat away their troubles. When we are at our lowest we sometimes will grasp for anything to save us. I’m not saying that its right or good to participate in an affair (hence the no one looking comment above) but that sometimes good people do not so good things for some crazy reasons that only they would understand.

 

When I chose to take my husband back after his affair I had to pull my blinders off and see *him* for who he really is…he’s a flawed individual (just like the rest of us)…who is doing the best he can with what he has (just like the rest of us)…I needed to see him for real in order for me to be able to accept him back in my life as my husband.

 

The xOW is a lost person, who isn’t necessarily a bad person but..well, I don’t spend too much time on thinking about her anymore…I use to try to figure her out, but it’s a waste of my time and energy. One thing I had to do for myself is to find real compassion in my heart for her. I’m a very loving person and I can’t carry that negativity around inside me. I won’t carry it around inside of me because it would damage me. She’s not worth me damaging myself.

 

I guess I'm more of a "judge the behavior not the person" type of woman.

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