Feminists are ruining men.

[Feelsgoodman]

I have never voted in my life. Don't care for it.

Then why did you say this in your OP???

 

The right to vote, the right to work, the right for education. Yes, all good things and I would have fought for them myself.

 

I don't know about wages, but I make a heck of a lot more than most men.

If you are so rich, why do you want men to pay for you on dates? Isn't that an example of ultimate greed? To draw an analogy, it would be like the CEO of Ford expecting assembly line workers to take him out for lunch.

[prune juice]

If you open a door for me I'm certainly not going to "yell" at you for it. As far as the bill for our meal goes though, I will ask for separate checks when our server first comes to the table, if I really like a guy, I'll excuse myself, head to the restroom & just slip my credit card to the waiter & take care of the entire bill.

 

why must so many women muck things up so much? guys want easy, simple, not complicated.

[FrustratedStandards]

The only man required to "protect you & pay for you" was your Daddy & even that requirement ended when you turned 18.

 

Feeling a connection to your innate feminine power, your womanhood, comes from within YOU, not from some poor sap emptying the contents of his wallet to pay for your dinner in hopes that you'll gobble down his penis the same way you slammed down $100 worth of Prime Rib.

 

So you're saying that if a woman never bothers telling you you're handsome, asking for you so help her move heavy furniture, or protect her from a sleezebag who is hitting on her, its not HER fault you don't feel masculine, its yours?

 

waaaaaaaaaaaat? this is why it's so damn difficult. i like to be the man and pay. it's a manly feeling. i like to hold the door. it's manly. why be offended?

 

Prunce Juice, will you marry me?

 

IMO, if I did a nice thing for a person and he/she was offended (ie opening a door), I would just put the blame on her, not on me. It really isn't your fault if a woman is offended.

 

Exactly.

 

that's accurate, but men can reach a breaking point. we get tired of women being offended and we start not bothering after a time.

 

That's the point of this whole thread

 

If you open a door for me I'm certainly not going to "yell" at you for it. As far as the bill for our meal goes though, I will ask for separate checks when our server first comes to the table, if I really like a guy, I'll excuse myself, head to the restroom & just slip my credit card to the waiter & take care of the entire bill.

 

That's offensive. The man wants to be a man and pay, and you basically just kicked his manhood in the nuts by paying for the whole thing. That's really rude.

 

You basically stripped him the pleasure of treating you to a date.

[FrustratedStandards]

Then why did you say this in your OP???

 

 

 

 

If you are so rich, why do you want men to pay for you on dates? Isn't that an example of ultimate greed? To draw an analogy, it would be like the CEO of Ford expecting assembly line workers to take him out for lunch.

 

I guess I contradicted myself there. I was trying to make the point that these things that feminism fought for are GOOD things.

 

It's NOT ABOUT THE MONEY! Jesus Christ, do people still not get this?

[FitChick]

I'm not certain that completely removing all definitions of masculine and feminine, to the point of a completely androgynous society, is the best idea. Equality is one thing, but similarity is an entirely different one. Would YOU want such a society?

The Chinese didn't. Remember Mao and his little Red book and everyone dressing alike?

[soserious1]

why must so many women muck things up so much? guys want easy, simple, not complicated.

 

I live in a progressive, urban area. Servers in restaurants here, after greeting a couple, generally politely ask if they'd like separate checks. This gives the woman the opportunity to smile and say "separate checks please" It is very simple, uncomplicated and eliminates that

dreadful awkward moment when the little tray that holds the bill is placed on the table.

 

A lot of men have told me that moment at the beginning of the meal when the server asks if the couple wants separate checks is a defining one for them, if the woman doesn't make a move to speak, to indicate they want to pay for the meal, the guy will then say "one check please" they'll pay the bill but as far as they're concerned, they've crossed the woman off their list for future dates.

 

Sorry, but I can't say I blame them.

[Els]

The Chinese didn't. Remember Mao and his little Red book and everyone dressing alike?

 

Mao is hardly representative of what all the Chinese want.

[Feelsgoodman]

I guess I contradicted myself there. I was trying to make the point that these things that feminism fought for are GOOD things.

How are these things "good"??? Why should women have the same rights as men if they are not going to accept the same responsibilities? Why should women receive equal wages if they are going to spend all their money on themselves and then expect men to spend money on them on top of that? How is that "equality"?

[FrustratedStandards]

I live in a progressive, urban area. Servers in restaurants here, after greeting a couple, generally politely ask if they'd like separate checks. This gives the woman the opportunity to smile and say "separate checks please" It is very simple, uncomplicated and eliminates that

dreadful awkward moment when the little tray that holds the bill is placed on the table.

 

A lot of men have told me that moment at the beginning of the meal when the server asks if the couple wants separate checks is a defining one for them, if the woman doesn't make a move to speak, to indicate they want to pay for the meal, the guy will then say "one check please" they'll pay the bill but as far as they're concerned, they've crossed the woman off their list for future dates.

 

Sorry, but I can't say I blame them.

 

You mean they actually ASK now?!

 

That's gross. If a man didn't immediately say "one cheque is fine" then I would dismiss him as a potential male partner and wouldn't take him seriously.

 

Where I come from, if you let a women pay, you are basically handing her your balls.

[soserious1]

So you're saying that if a woman never bothers telling you you're handsome, asking for you so help her move heavy furniture, or protect her from a sleezebag who is hitting on her, its not HER fault you don't feel masculine, its yours?

 

 

 

Prunce Juice, will you marry me?

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

That's the point of this whole thread

 

 

 

That's offensive. The man wants to be a man and pay, and you basically just kicked his manhood in the nuts by paying for the whole thing. That's really rude.

 

You basically stripped him the pleasure of treating you to a date.

 

Assuming that the guy wants to pay for the whole evening is what's "rude" why would I expect a total stranger to buy me dinner?

 

A "treat" is something that happens for special occasions, for celebrating someone you know well. If a man wishes to "treat" me

for my birthday or to celebrate some special achievement, he can let me know that before hand. I'm sure as heck not going to be rude enough to assume though that my company is so compelling, so rare that he's got to foot the bill. I can pay for my own food.

[verhrzn]

You mean they actually ASK now?!

 

That's gross. If a man didn't immediately say "one cheque is fine" then I would dismiss him as a potential male partner and wouldn't take him seriously.

 

Where I come from, if you let a women pay, you are basically handing her your balls.

 

.... How???? How, does this make ANY logical sense? Because you let a woman do a nice thing for you, she now owns your balls? Wha??

[FrustratedStandards]

How are these things "good"??? Why should women have the same rights as men if they are not going to accept the same responsibilities? Why should women receive equal wages if they are going to spend all their money on themselves and then expect men to spend money on them on top of that? How is that "equality"?

 

I see what you're saying.

 

Well first of all, it costs to wax, laser hair removal, eyebrows, nails etc. That all costs money, and by the way men expect a women to look these days, it doesn't come for free.

 

If a man is okay with a hairy, poorly dressed women with unibrows, then I guess paying for myself would be okay. But there is already so much pressure on a woman to look a certain way, and on top of that men won't bother treating her to a date?

 

Hah.

[FrustratedStandards]

.... How???? How, does this make ANY logical sense? Because you let a woman do a nice thing for you, she now owns your balls? Wha??

 

I don't know if you read a previous post in which I replied to someone with a similar question.

 

In my mind, a man has to pay. Period. That is engrained in my brain and that is part of what makes a man attractive.

 

If a woman pays, she is insulting him. Her paying means he either a) can't afford it b) isn't gentlemanly enough to pay or c) let's the woman be the breadwinner therefore she pays.

 

All 3 things are an insult. The moment a woman grabs the tab she either implies he can't afford it, she doesn't want to see him again so she pays (like some women on this post have mentioned) or she wants to take charge and do the manly gesutre FOR him.

 

I don't see how any of those things are nice. Mind you this is about early dating, not serious relationships.

[dasein]

Well first of all, it costs to wax, laser hair removal, eyebrows, nails etc. That all costs money, and by the way men expect a women to look these days, it doesn't come for free.

 

So if a man showed up in a dirty car to pick you up, wearing overalls, unshaven, unbathed, that would be OK? Because according to the above, women are the only ones who spend money on clothes and personal appearance. I don't find reasonable spending on appearance that expensive, and if women choose to spend tons of extra money on fashion and appearance, why should men subsidize it with free food and entertainment?

[FrustratedStandards]

So if a man showed up in a dirty car to pick you up, wearing overalls, unshaven, unbathed, that would be OK? Because according to the above, women are the only ones who spend money on clothes and personal appearance. I don't find reasonable spending on appearance that expensive, and if women choose to spend tons of extra money on fashion and appearance, why should men subsidize it with free food and entertainment?

 

Because that is part of what makes him a MAN. All he has to do is SHOWER and wear CLEAN CLOTHES.

 

Last time I checked you don't need paid appointments for that.

[verhrzn]

I don't know if you read a previous post in which I replied to someone with a similar question.

 

In my mind, a man has to pay. Period. That is engrained in my brain and that is part of what makes a man attractive.

 

If a woman pays, she is insulting him. Her paying means he either a) can't afford it b) isn't gentlemanly enough to pay or c) let's the woman be the breadwinner therefore she pays.

 

All 3 things are an insult. The moment a woman grabs the tab she either implies he can't afford it, she doesn't want to see him again so she pays (like some women on this post have mentioned) or she wants to take charge and do the manly gesutre FOR him.

 

I don't see how any of those things are nice. Mind you this is about early dating, not serious relationships.

 

Why is a woman being the bread winner insulting? Maybe she DOES make more money. Heck, nearly all the guys who have messaged me online (all *checks* 4 of them in 6 months) are unemployed or living with their parents. Am I supposed to ignore the reality that I currently *do* make way more money than them?

[Mme. Chaucer]

Originally Posted by FrustratedStandards

You mean they actually ASK now?!

 

That's gross. If a man didn't immediately say "one cheque is fine" then I would dismiss him as a potential male partner and wouldn't take him seriously.

 

Where I come from, if you let a women pay, you are basically handing her your balls.

 

If this is true, then what is your problem with finding men who are of the same mind as you? I mean, if all the men where you come from feel this way, why don't you fetch one up?

[Feelsgoodman]

I see what you're saying.

 

Well first of all, it costs to wax, laser hair removal, eyebrows, nails etc. That all costs money, and by the way men expect a women to look these days, it doesn't come for free.

Oh not that sh*t again. Men spend money on clothing, gym memberships and other things necessary to look good. Men are also expected to own a car, which costs a hell of a lot more than fake nails and waxes.

 

Besides, 99% of the money you spend on "looking good" is completely frivolous expenditure. I don't care if your shoes were designed by some famous homosexual from Milan or NYC and cost a thousand bucks. I also don't care if you have 17 pairs of them. I don't care if your purse is by Luis Vuitton...you could be walking around with a plastic bag from the supermarket as far as I am concerned.

 

All I need is the basics...reasonably decent clothing (doesn't have to be expensive and you don't need to own a huge wardrobe) that suits your body type and no body/facial hair (gross). That doesn't cost a fortune.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Originally Posted by FrustratedStandards

Well first of all, it costs to wax, laser hair removal, eyebrows, nails etc. That all costs money, and by the way men expect a women to look these days, it doesn't come for free.

 

Really, if you choose to do these things, that is nice and I'm sure lots of men appreciate the results. It has nothing to do with how or why a guy should decide to spend his money, or not.

[dasein]

Because that is part of what makes him a MAN. All he has to do is SHOWER and wear CLEAN CLOTHES.

 

Last time I checked you don't need paid appointments for that.

 

Clothes, cologne, haircuts, toiletries cost men money just like your stuff does. We don't use a roll of toilet paper a day , but that's a minor cost.

[oaks]

If a woman pays, she is insulting him. Her paying means he either a) can't afford it b) isn't gentlemanly enough to pay or c) let's the woman be the breadwinner therefore she pays.

 

All 3 things are an insult.

 

I can think of a 4th reason: she might have a different view about who should buy dinner than you. I'm not insulted in that case, even if I genuinely offered to pay.

 

I can think of a 5th reason: there are much more important things to worry about in early dating than who pays for dinner (and that's usually the attitude I take when I genuinely offer to pay, but if it's not a big deal to me then I'm happy when it's not a big deal to her either).

[Els]

You mean they actually ASK now?!

 

Well, my experience has been that they ask, but they usually ask the man instead of the woman. So it is a bit awkward when the man begins talking, then the woman interrupts to say her piece. Usually, if a woman offers, she offers before that point of time.

[Els]

Clothes, cologne, haircuts, toiletries cost men money just like your stuff does. We don't use a roll of toilet paper a day , but that's a minor cost.

 

No, your statement is false. With almost no exceptions, most women I know spend far more money on maintenance than men do. The good-looking women do all of the above, plus waxing/EPL ($80 per leg for EPL, $50 for bikini waxes), eyebrow trimming and shaping ($40), nails ($30 - $50) and makeup ($200 for a mid-range full set), and lingerie ($50 apiece).

 

Don't even get me started on toiletries.

 

This is definitely not a reason to EXPECT to be treated on dates, of course, but I find it amusing that men just throw out assumptions like that when it really isn't the case.

[soserious1]

I see what you're saying.

 

Well first of all, it costs to wax, laser hair removal, eyebrows, nails etc. That all costs money, and by the way men expect a women to look these days, it doesn't come for free.

 

If a man is okay with a hairy, poorly dressed women with unibrows, then I guess paying for myself would be okay. But there is already so much pressure on a woman to look a certain way, and on top of that men won't bother treating her to a date?

 

Hah.

 

 

The one thing most men want a woman to wear on a date is a slim, well toned body!

 

Would you show up at your job with a "unibrow" ? I'm betting you wouldn't & a huge portion of personal grooming costs are professionally driven. Hair styling costs? those are part of the price of having a professional occupation & are covered by YOUR paycheck, same goes for clothing, shoes, makeup.

 

Also, YOU have total control over the costs of your grooming/clothing needs, hair coloring can come with a $200 price tag from a salon or from a box from the drugstore that costs $8.99,same goes for every other expense you've listed.

[FrustratedStandards]

Why is a woman being the bread winner insulting? Maybe she DOES make more money. Heck, nearly all the guys who have messaged me online (all *checks* 4 of them in 6 months) are unemployed or living with their parents. Am I supposed to ignore the reality that I currently *do* make way more money than them?

 

I would write him off immediately. A man (around my age) still living with his parents?

 

No thanks.

 

Originally Posted by FrustratedStandards

 

 

If this is true, then what is your problem with finding men who are of the same mind as you? I mean, if all the men where you come from feel this way, why don't you fetch one up?

 

Because they're all back in Italy! And I live in Toronto! That's why! I'm stuck with this Canadian mindset. There are men like this among them, but very, very few.

 

Well, my experience has been that they ask, but they usually ask the man instead of the woman. So it is a bit awkward when the man begins talking, then the woman interrupts to say her piece. Usually, if a woman offers, she offers before that point of time.

 

That makes sense.

 

I wonder what a man would say if he doesn't want to pay, but the woman doesn't interrupt.

 

Would he feel uncomfortable saying "two cheques please"? If so, that just proves my point that a man needs to pay, and if he doesn't, it's rude. Lots of men would always say "one cheque please" but write off the woman immediately, which is stupid.

 

Other times, the woman will interrupt, and they will be okay with it because "Hey, she offered! I'm not being any less of a man by letting her!"

 

Umm... yes you are. In my eyes, yes you are.