Feminists are ruining men.

[Woggle]

Men say thank you because we are genuinely surprised when women are nice and show appreciation. It's sad but that is how many men feel.

[TheBigQuestion]

Wait a minute, I thought it was merely the belief that women should be treated equally legally and in all aspects of life? Or at least that's what so many feminists here say.

 

 

 

Once again, regardless of rationalization, she was the governor of a state. Once you have reached that level of accomplishment in your life, get back to me with the standard media soundbites and lambasting leveled at her. Until then...

 

And as far as the foibles of U.S. politicians generally, their fitness for office, regardless of ideology, you are preaching to the choir. And we are all to blame for that, not just the clowns we elect. Someone had to elect them.

 

But trying to fit a larger size of clownshoe onto Palin than fits the near entirety of the U.S. governing body is an exercise in futility. If the clownshoe fits, they all gotta wear it. Don't try to single her out as being some particularly hideous aberration in U.S. politics in a literal sea of aberrations.

 

I'm sorry, but there's never been another major American politician who has repeatedly displayed as much ignorance of the most basic civic and political knowledge. George W. Bush and Dan Quayle look like damned geniuses next to her. And again, celebrating the idea that someone as profoundly stupid as her can make it as far as she did is really no different than thinking a reality TV star has actually accomplished something. Surely there has to be another female who gets a tongue-lashing from feminists who actually DOESN'T deserve it. Of all people, you needed to pick PALIN to make your point?

[gibson]

Here we go again with the Gender Wars...

 

My friends and I (Men and Women) rarely run into the type of men or women that everyone complains about on here. If we happen to come across them, we simply ignore them and go about our business without a thought.

 

Why do you give someone (or a small minority) permission to have control and power over your emotions, your life, your pursuit of happiness, etc.? Why waste your time, effort and energy on someone (or a small minority) who you wouldn't be friends with, much less date?

 

I honestly don't get it.

 

If these are the only type of people that you meet or come across... That's totally on you. Try changing your environment, what you are doing, where you are going, your choice of friends, the circles you run in, give up online dating, etc.

 

If all you meet is crap, you are more than likely crap yourself.

 

How do I know this?

 

Because my friends and I don't attract and rarely come into contact with the type of men or women that a lot of the people here on LS paint the entire other gender as.

[zengirl]

Honestly, if someone DOES take the expensive route for their beauty routines, I won't find it personally irritating at all. You live however you want to live. What I take issue with is the implication that the reason women spend so much more money on clothes, shoes, accessories, and beauty routines than the typical man is because men expect them to do so. In most cases, this simply isn't true. I know you didn't really mention shoes, but I'll use it as an example. I don't know a straight man who can tell one shoe brand from another just by looking at them. I'm having trouble thinking of any ladies' shoe designers names as I write this. Yet there are women who will swear up and down that this sort of thing will actually matter to a man.

 

FWIW, I do not think shoe brands matter to men, nor is that akin to the argument of the body hair thing. My point is that it's relatively true that beauty expectations on average women are more time-consuming and expensive than that of average men (I know men have gotten more standards thrust upon them in recent years, but they're still much less prevalent) and that you have such expectations yourself, from what I can tell in this thread. The expectation to be hairless everywhere but on your head (for women) can be compared to the expectation to pay (for men) fairly easily. As can several others. I agree that shoe brands would be a poor comparison. But wearing heels might not be -- wearing heels (any kind, but especially the cheap ones btw) actually tends to cause health problems that could be VERY costly. Not to mention walking in heels is more time-consuming and difficult. I don't wear heels for those reasons, but I'm sure there are men who'd find me less attractive for doing so. I don't think having any kind of shallow standard is different than any other.

 

Personally, I'm turned off by anyone who feels entitled to anything beyond people having common decency and character in their dealings with them and so forth. So, I agree with you there! However, I do not see that it's any more justifiable to have such beauty standards, as wanting a woman to shave her legs/wear heels/have perfect skin/whatever, as it is to have materialistic standards, like wanting a guy to shell out for dinner.

 

I also don't mind that not all men feel compelled to shell out for dinner or first dates or whatever. I've never run into them IRL, though, and certainly never would associate that with 'feminism' -- particularly since the men on LS (the only place I've seen men and women argue so much about who pays) who are loudest in their complaints at being 'expected' to pay for dinner are certainly not feminists.

 

Again, with the narrow exception of highly metrosexual men, it simply isn't true. A man night 'notice' a chipped nail, but it doesn't follow that he expects the woman to have an expensive manicure.

 

Noticing the problem is the issue. For instance, I cannot properly paint my own nails well. Can't do it, have terrible fine motor skills, that's not going to change. So, if I want nails that look well-done, I get a manicure. Mostly, I just use clear polish myself or allow the polish to look a little bit flawed--whatevs. But there are high maintenance men who wouldn't date women like me--- thank the Lords --- or who have even offered to pay for me to get a proper manicure, believe it or not. And they weren't particularly metrosexual or holding the same standards for themselves.

 

I often hear on these boards, "you don't date women, so you don't know." Maybe this is a case of "you don't date men, so you don't know" because there are some NON metrosexual men who definitely care about such things and many of these beauty treatments are not things you can just DIY (at least klutzy untrained people like me can't).

 

Really the only point I'm trying to make is that if you enjoy spending money on your appearance, that's great. Just don't bitch about how expensive it is (not saying you are) because the vast majority of men would think you're just fine if you took the cheaper route to achieve the same result.

 

I do think that if a woman kept up her beauty routines while dating and then stopped them all during marriage, once she "had" the guy, she'd be criticized. I see the same idea routinely here. A lot of times, there is no cheaper route to achieve the same result. . . that's the part of my point you're missing. You assume the cheap way works just as well, and it might for some women's hair or skin or whatever. But all women's bodies are not the same.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I'm sorry, but there's never been another major American politician who has repeatedly displayed as much ignorance of the most basic civic and political knowledge. George W. Bush and Dan Quayle look like damned geniuses next to her. And again, celebrating the idea that someone as profoundly stupid as her can make it as far as she did is really no different than thinking a reality TV star has actually accomplished something. Surely there has to be another female who gets a tongue-lashing from feminists who actually DOESN'T deserve it. Of all people, you needed to pick PALIN to make your point?

 

And lest you forgot, she ALSO was a reality TV star. Had her very own show!

[dasein]

I'm sorry, but there's never been another major American politician who has repeatedly displayed as much ignorance of the most basic civic and political knowledge. George W. Bush and Dan Quayle look like damned geniuses next to her. And again, celebrating the idea that someone as profoundly stupid as her can make it as far as she did is really no different than thinking a reality TV star has actually accomplished something. Surely there has to be another female who gets a tongue-lashing from feminists who actually DOESN'T deserve it. Of all people, you needed to pick PALIN to make your point?

 

We can go with Phyllis Schlafly if you like. The linked article used Palin as an example, so I did.

 

It's no secret that politicians on the right are judged more harshly than politicians on the left for the things they say in public. Palin is no exception. While Dan Quayle is misspelling whatever, leftists are admittedly doing more substantial things out in the world, Al Gore was busy inventing the internet and Bill Clinton pondering the meaning of the word "the" between getting BJs from interns, so it's no wonder they get a pass, as much as they do for us all.

 

This extends into entertainment as well, Rush Limbaugh is some sort of fanatical megalomaniac, Keith Olbermann, though, is a level headed guy. Whatever.

 

How many women have been governors of states? How many women have been candidates for vice president? I certainly hope that one day when Ms. Clinton is running for VP or President, you will apply the same level of scrutiny to her past and her past statements that you apply to Ms. Palin's. You will right?

 

And as an aside, one day soon you will be sitting in a conference room among both friends and adversaries. Your words will be under scrutiny by several people, and you will be expected to think on your feet. The pressure will be a bit more profound than you may have felt in various simulations to date. You -will- say something monumentally stupid, it is inevitable. Go ahead and brace yourself for it now. It will happen. Moreover, it will happen again and again throughout your career. It has happened to me more times than I can count or want to remember, and I'm a smart, eloquent guy. Whatever you say may be tactically stupid, a complete misstatement of fact, or something so moronic as to indicate that you don't know how to dress in the morning. The occasions of all of those will be many in your life. I wish for you they will be few, but they won't.

 

When it does happen, when you are all leaving the room, one of your adversaries (or maybe even a friend ), maybe several, maybe even your clients, will turn to the other and say "that TBQ is obviously profoundly stupid, how could an idiot like that get here."

 

As you are walking out of that room the first time, I want you to consider a thought experiment. Imagine if instead of a room of people, there were a thousand. Imagine if the topics discussed ranged from "I know alot about that," to "I don't know my a-ss from a hole in the ground where that's concerned." Imagine if regardless of your knowledge, an immediate response was expected. Imagine 100 cameras in your face and 100 microphones awaiting such a response, bright lights, flashbulbs, maybe even a gunman out there sighting in on your noggin.

 

Imagine this were the case every time you walk out your door, the mountains of stupidity, banality, and incoherence that would issue forth from your mouth over a career. It's one reason I won't ever go into politics, but also a reason I respect even the clowns who subject themselves to that.

 

It's really easy for professional talking heads and writers, a-holes in the media, us here in the luxury of typing out carefully crafted replies, to ridicule via soundbite assassination, what people who are doing -real- things in the -real- world say. It's really hard to voluntarily put oneself under such scrutiny.

[FrustratedStandards]

 

If all you meet is crap, you are more than likely crap yourself.

 

 

Disagree.

 

First of all, cultural differences don't mean they are crap. It means WE think they are crappy for US because they don't fit into what we expect from a man/woman.

 

Second, how many psychos are out there who date genuinely sweet people? I can name 3 guys right off the top of my head who are sweety pies and who have psycho girlfriends.

 

So no, if you meet crap it doesn't mean you are so.

[FitChick]

So no, if you meet crap it doesn't mean you are so.

 

It just means you BELIEVE you are.

[FitChick]

Yeah, because a man is only going to go on a date ONCE in his LIFETIME.

 

On Loveshack, that's if he's real lucky.

[Tariq]

Unfortunately, women have forgotten their place in the world.

[Woggle]

Disagree.

 

First of all, cultural differences don't mean they are crap. It means WE think they are crappy for US because they don't fit into what we expect from a man/woman.

 

Second, how many psychos are out there who date genuinely sweet people? I can name 3 guys right off the top of my head who are sweety pies and who have psycho girlfriends.

 

So no, if you meet crap it doesn't mean you are so.

 

For some reason most really good and sweet guys tend to be with women who don't deserve them. I don't know why that is.

[plowguy1]

So, has anyone besides daesin read The Futurist: The Misandry Bubble ? since were talking about feminism, I'd like to hear what people think, especially women.

[FrustratedStandards]

For some reason most really good and sweet guys tend to be with women who don't deserve them. I don't know why that is.

 

Me neither, and it really bothers me.

 

The psycho b*tches get the sweet guys, while the rest of us have to deal with the men that no one else wants.

[Woggle]

Me neither, and it really bothers me.

 

The psycho b*tches get the sweet guys, while the rest of us have to deal with the men that no one else wants.

 

Why don't the women who actually are worth try going after the sweet guys?

[HeavyHitter]

It just means you BELIEVE you are.

 

Or do you mean YOU believe that person is crap.

[FrustratedStandards]

Why don't the women who actually are worth try going after the sweet guys?

 

Because women who are worthy don't go around hitting on men.

 

It's the crazies who want a boyfriend NOW so they go find one and being the sweet guy that he is, he isn't going to bluntly reject her if she constantly insists.

 

That's why.

[HeavyHitter]

Because women who are worthy don't go around hitting on men.

 

Sorry but if they think their crap doesn't stink and that they're too elite to get their asses out there and do some of the pursuing then they aren't worth anything but a roll in the sack.

[InJest]

Because women who are worthy don't go around hitting on men.

 

It's the crazies who want a boyfriend NOW so they go find one and being the sweet guy that he is, he isn't going to bluntly reject her if she constantly insists.

 

That's why.

 

This is the dumbest **** I've ever heard.

 

FS, I'm curious, and I honestly do not expect an answer from you, because you seem incapable of introspection. I want to hear what you bring to the table on your own. Not what you would be like in a relationship, but why would someone want to date you? What are your outstanding qualities?

[Feelsgoodman]

It’s lost on me too.

 

I cut my own hair. I have for 15 years and get compliments on it all the time. To be fair, it’s long and if I mess it up it’s not obvious.

 

I buy a 4 pack of razors, for $20, and take care of the hair on my body myself. The thing about waxing is you gotta let the hair grow out to an unattractive length before you can get it taken care of. I can shave every day and have soft and smooth skin all the time.

 

I do my own manicures and pedicures and get compliments on my nails all the time. Not too long ago a man walked up to me and said “This might sound weird, (it did) but you have very pretty nails.” It cost me $10 to do them, and I get a lot more uses than one.

 

I used to spend $50 on bras and panties (VS) until I realized what crappy quality they were. Now I can spend $20 for ones that are just as sexy,but don’t have a designer name attached. Unless a man reads the label he’ll never know the difference, and I haven’t met one who really cares. When it gets to the point of him seeing them, they won’t be on long anyway.

 

I buy my make-up at the drug store (oh, the horror). It lasts more than one use, quite a while actually, and it works well for me.

What's that sound? It's Frustrated Standards, Elswyth and all the other "high maintenance" LS ladies collectively gasping for air as their lie is exposed for what it is

 

If you are spending hundreds/thousands of dollars a month on personal care it's because you are an idiot...not because it's "required" of you.

[Woggle]

I don't know much women spend but I have heard that women dress as much for other women as they do for men so don't lay this all on men.

[gotye]

i always offer to pay, but if a guy insists... hell, his own damn fault... i don't argue, i do offer a few times (like 3) before accepting he'll waste his money on a girl who he might not ever see again

[xxoo]

I don't know much women spend but I have heard that women dress as much for other women as they do for men so don't lay this all on men.

 

I believe this is true.

 

I spend nearly nothing on beauty products. I may be delusional, but I think I look pretty damn good!

[mesmerized]

I don't know much women spend but I have heard that women dress as much for other women as they do for men so don't lay this all on men.

 

Lies! if I was going somewhere just with women in it, I wouldn't give a damn how I look like lol

[FrustratedStandards]

Sorry but if they think their crap doesn't stink and that they're too elite to get their asses out there and do some of the pursuing then they aren't worth anything but a roll in the sack.

 

Ahahaha. You are SO wrong. So wrong my friend.

 

Besides, most men think women who approach are too aggressive or desperate. So how is it OUR fault for not wanting to?

 

Same goes for men. They hate the rejection.

 

This is the dumbest **** I've ever heard.

 

FS, I'm curious, and I honestly do not expect an answer from you, because you seem incapable of introspection. I want to hear what you bring to the table on your own. Not what you would be like in a relationship, but why would someone want to date you? What are your outstanding qualities?

 

Other than being absolutely fabulous as a person, i'm very sexual, great in bed, give good blowies, I cook and well, I know how to sew and fix up things (not a pro but the basics) and on top of that I'm a trophy girl.

 

 

Oh! And i'm not jealous, clingy, needy or naggy. BLEH! I've actually had men like this. No thanks!

 

What's that sound? It's Frustrated Standards, Elswyth and all the other "high maintenance" LS ladies collectively gasping for air as their lie is exposed for what it is

 

If you are spending hundreds/thousands of dollars a month on personal care it's because you are an idiot...not because it's "required" of you.

 

Oh please. You would notice a woman like this miles away just because of how she takes care of herself.

 

Mind you that's only the physical stuff, but you would still notice.

 

I don't know much women spend but I have heard that women dress as much for other women as they do for men so don't lay this all on men.

 

Very true. Women are very VERY competitive. I never understood that.

[Woggle]

Lies! if I was going somewhere just with women in it, I wouldn't give a damn how I look like lol

 

Maybe this is true for you but women tend to dress for other women and for themselves. Do you think men give a damn about the designer fashions a woman wears?