Feminists are ruining men.

[phineas]

For some reason most really good and sweet guys tend to be with women who don't deserve them. I don't know why that is.

 

I believe it's because those women KNOW they can take advantage of those men while pretending they aren't.

 

Those guys usually end up marrying the first woman who give them regular sex also.

[mesmerized]

Maybe this is true for you but women tend to dress for other women and for themselves. Do you think men give a damn about the designer fashions a woman wears?

 

You give a damn how good we look and usually nice dresses are more expensive. I get waaaaaaay more attention when I'm dolled up than when I'm wearing normal cloth/not much makeup etc. I wish more men would be into natural look and ignored the women who go from one salon to the other. But unfortunately and not surprisungly, those women are usually the ones that get the men's attention the most.

[Feelsgoodman]

Oh please. You would notice a woman like this miles away just because of how she takes care of herself.

Nah. An ugly woman can spend a million bucks on makeup and clothing and it won't make any difference. To notice a woman from a mile away, she'd have to have a killer bod.

[xxoo]

Maybe this is true for you but women tend to dress for other women and for themselves. Do you think men give a damn about the designer fashions a woman wears?

 

Or especially the designer handbags. Like any man cares!

 

Another is hair. Men love long hair. Women spend hundreds of dollars cutting their hair every 6 weeks

[phineas]

Because women who are worthy don't go around hitting on men.

 

It's the crazies who want a boyfriend NOW so they go find one and being the sweet guy that he is, he isn't going to bluntly reject her if she constantly insists.

 

That's why.

 

So you DON'T want a BF?

 

Nice guys are usually too shy to go after a woman.

So the woman who goes after one, gets one.

 

You know this & yet you still won't do the needful?

[xxoo]

Nah. An ugly woman can spend a million bucks on makeup and clothing and it won't make any difference. To notice a woman from a mile away, she'd have to have a killer bod.

 

And if she has the killer bod, men would notice her in jeans, a tank top, and flip-flops

[gibson]

First of all, cultural differences don't mean they are crap.

 

Relationships are complex and hard enough as it is... Knowing this, I don't date people who I have cultural differences with. I have plenty of women to choose from that have similar backgrounds, life experiences, values, beliefs, etc. as me.

 

Why on earth would I make things more complicated than they need to be?

 

Friendships = Yes / Dating = No.

 

It means WE think they are crappy for US because they don't fit into what we expect from a man/woman.

 

Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

 

You must be by saying WE.

 

My friends and I usually meet people who have character, values, integrity, morals, respect the opposite sex, etc. In fact, it's rare when we come across people like the ones your describe over and over again in your posts.

 

Where do you hang out? What type of friends do you have? What circles do you run in? Where are you meeting these people?

 

Maybe these are the questions you should ask yourself. Because if you haven't noticed... you are the common denominator in your problem.

 

Second, how many psychos are out there who date genuinely sweet people?

 

My friends and I don't psychos and since you are keeping score (which is part of your problem), make sure to add 10 - 15 genuinely sweet people who don't.

 

I can name 3 guys right off the top of my head who are sweety pies and who have psycho girlfriends.

 

So what!?!?!

 

You know 3 guys who happen to be sweety pies that like to date psychos... Do you want a cookie?

 

Since these 3 guys have GFs and prefer psychos... What the heck does that have to do with anything or you? They are unavailable and prefer psychos, which I think you are trying to indicate you are not.

 

So no, if you meet crap it doesn't mean you are so.

 

My friends and I rarely meet crap and even if we do, we do what any normal people does, we scrape it off the bottom of our shoe and go about our business.

 

You on the other-hand... lick it, sniff it, play with it, talk to it, want to date it, etc. Hell, you go looking for more!

 

FrustratedStandards, Maybe if you had some standards and honored them, you wouldn't be so frustrated.

 

Change your outlook of the opposite sex, change your surroundings and the environment you are currently in... apparently it's crap. If you do this, I assure you... you will have the same kind of success that a lot of us other LS posters are having in regards to dating, relationships and the quality of people we are meeting, etc.

[FrustratedStandards]

So you DON'T want a BF?

 

Nice guys are usually too shy to go after a woman.

So the woman who goes after one, gets one.

 

You know this & yet you still won't do the needful?

 

Yes

 

And if she has the killer bod, men would notice her in jeans, a tank top, and flip-flops

 

That's the thing. High maintenance also means going to the gym and being in shape.

 

I think most men confused high maintenance with b*tch.

 

Just because a woman is high maintenance doesn't mean she doesn't know how to be low key.

 

A high maintenance girl can still go camping without a suitcase full of makeup and creams.

[FrustratedStandards]

 

FrustratedStandards, Maybe if you had some standards and honored them, you wouldn't be so frustrated.

 

You're joking right?

 

Having standards is the problem. Having high standards is worse. My standards are really high..

 

...hence the difficulty in finding someone who meets them.

[Woggle]

Men are interested in good looking women but we don't care where she bought her clothes and where she bought her bag.

[xxoo]

That's the thing. High maintenance also means going to the gym and being in shape.

 

I'm as low maintenance as they come, but I am in great shape. Even my workout is low maintenance (Tie shoes. Run.)

[gibson]

You're joking right?

 

Having standards is the problem. Having high standards is worse. My standards are really high..

 

...hence the difficulty in finding someone who meets them.

 

Then...

 

Change your outlook of the opposite sex, change your surroundings and the environment you are currently in... apparently it's crap. If you do this, I assure you... you will have the same kind of success that a lot of us other LS posters are having in regards to dating, relationships and the quality of people we are meeting.

[mesmerized]

I'm as low maintenance as they come, but I am in great shape. Even my workout is low maintenance (Tie shoes. Run.)

 

No offence but you're married and haven't dated much recently. You can't really say what men like or dislike. Since I broke up with my ex and started dating, I learned a lot more about attraction and what men here seem to value...

 

Generally being extremely naturally beautiful gets you the most attention. But most women aren't that beautiful naturally. So you have be high maintainance to a degree to get more men's attention.

[PratyekaYana]

My apologies if someone has already offered similar input. I haven't read each page of this rather long thread.

 

On topic:

 

I have on occasion entered into these sorts of discussions with dear female friends, and in so doing I can sympathize with the OP's frustrations. The conflict between the "going Dutch" philosophy and the more antiquated notion that men must assume the monetary burden of dating life really just boils down to issues of insecurity.

 

Women of traditional molding, something to which the OP confesses to being, find validation of their femininity in a man's willingness to open his wallet. If he refuses, even if his action is rooted in the noble decision to respect her equality, this kind of woman sees it as a denial that she is "woman enough" to convince a man to act as provider. ..

 

I consider myself an advocate of gender equality, and I am one of those terrible men that refuses to pay for a relatively strange woman that I'm trying to establish familiarity with (as opposed to a girlfriend who I would easily cater to). Still, I am not unmoved by the OP's suffering. As I see it, she has two choices: she can either push herself through a rigorous retraining of her limiting beliefs (choosing to define her femininity through other avenues) or she can hold out for a suitor that shares her view of gender roles.

[HeavyHitter]

Ahahaha. You are SO wrong. So wrong my friend.

 

No not wrong. It's unrealistic to expect men to be the only ones initiating contact.

 

Besides, most men think women who approach are too aggressive or desperate. So how is it OUR fault for not wanting to?

 

That is a stereotype.

 

Same goes for men. They hate the rejection.

 

Nope.

[FrustratedStandards]

Then...

 

Change your outlook of the opposite sex, change your surroundings and the environment you are currently in... apparently it's crap. If you do this, I assure you... you will have the same kind of success that a lot of us other LS posters are having in regards to dating, relationships and the quality of people we are meeting.

 

You're absolutely right. I've stopped going out altogether.

 

Lounges and bars were obviously the wrong place. I go about doing my own things, and somehow since this isn't the "usual" place to approach a woman (as many have said) then that's out the window too.

 

It seems these days that there is always an excuse.

 

Whatever the case may be, I think that the only way to really meet someone is through people. And I believe it's true that you can judge a person by their friends. If you have great friends and are surrounded by good people, chances are you will meet someone awesome.

 

My problem is they are never good looking. OR they are too westernized.

 

Or both.

 

My apologies if someone has already offered similar input. I haven't read each page of this rather long thread.

 

On topic:

 

I have on occasion entered into these sorts of discussions with dear female friends, and in so doing I can sympathize with the OP's frustrations. The conflict between the "going Dutch" philosophy and the more antiquated notion that men must assume the monetary burden of dating life really just boils down to issues of insecurity.

 

Women of traditional molding, something to which the OP confesses to being, find validation of their femininity in a man's willingness to open his wallet. If he refuses, even if his action is rooted in the noble decision to respect her equality, this kind of woman sees it as a denial that she is "woman enough" to convince a man to act as provider. ..

 

I consider myself an advocate of gender equality, and I am one of those terrible men that refuses to pay for a relatively strange woman that I'm trying to establish familiarity with (as opposed to a girlfriend who I would easily cater to). Still, I am not unmoved by the OP's suffering. As I see it, she has two choices: she can either push herself through a rigorous retraining of her limiting beliefs (choosing to define her femininity through other avenues) or she can hold out for a suitor that shares her view of gender roles.

 

Yes yes yes. This is exactly me. This is exactly how my mind works.

 

THANK YOU FOR THAT!

 

No not wrong. It's unrealistic to expect men to be the only ones initiating contact.

 

Umm... no it's not. How is that unrealistic?

 

Just because men don't like it, doesn't mean it's unrealistic.

[xxoo]

No offence but you're married and haven't dated much recently. You can't really say what men like or dislike. Since I broke up with my ex and started dating, I learned a lot more about attraction and what men here seem to value...

 

I'm agreeing with the men....

[mesmerized]

I'm agreeing with the men....

 

Men here say something just to disagree with women. Just like when women say they love a super nice guy but never actually respond to these type of guys in real.

 

I give you a simple example. I went out with a bunch of my male friends once and they were all talking about how they don't like it when a woman has makeup or is high maintenance. They were even picking on me for having just mascara on!!! then we go to a bar. The waitress had her makeup and hair done beautifully and I have no doubt naturally she would be just an average woman. These guys were all over her saying how much she deserves good tip because she is hot. I was like you realize this girl is totally dolled up, right???

[xxoo]

Men here say something just to disagree with women. Just like when women say they love a super nice guy but never actually respond to these type of guys in real.

 

I give you a simple example. I went out with a bunch of my male friends once and they were all talking about how they don't like it when a woman has makeup or is high maintenance. They were even picking on me for having just mascara on!!! then we go to a bar. The waitress had her makeup and hair done beautifully and I have no doubt naturally she would be just an average woman. These guys were all over her saying how much she deserves good tip because she is hot. I was like you realize this girl is totally dolled up, right???

 

And this had nothing to do with her outfit or her body?

[FrustratedStandards]

And this had nothing to do with her outfit or her body?

 

Hmm..

 

I wonder if a man is more likely to go for the great body and so-so face...

 

...or the beautiful face and not so great body...

[mesmerized]

And this had nothing to do with her outfit or her body?

 

Her outfit and body was normal. Nothing to go crazy for.

 

Trust me on this lol I get different treatments from men based on how I do my hair or how nice of a cloth I wear or what kind of perfume I use. I see it in their eyes. If I put a good amount of effort, it's like they're "mesmerised". If I'm just the natural cute girl I am, well, I get attention but nothing over the top. I'm just a cute girl, nothing they try hard to have sex with or choose over the hottie. I've had men telling me I should do my nails, or put fake big curls in my hair etc etc. Even my ex once told me I don't have a sense of style as if he didn't like it. So much for men don't care.

Edited April 4, 2012 by mesmerized

[xxoo]

Her outfit and body was normal. Nothing to go crazy for.

 

Trust me on this lol I get different treatments from men based on how I do my hair or how nice of a cloth I wear or what kind of perfume I use. I see it in their eyes. If I put a good amount of effort, it's like they're "mesmerised". If I'm just the natural cute girl I am, well, I get attention but nothing over the top. I'm just a cute girl, nothing they try hard to have sex with or choose over the hottie. I've had men telling me I should do my nails, or put fake big curls in my hair etc etc. Even my ex once told me I don't have a sense of style as if he didn't like it. So much for men don't care.

 

Curl your hair?

 

Maybe it is the area, or the type of guys. My sister is about FS's age, and was single until a couple years ago--and is just like me in terms of maintenance and style. Attracting men was never a problem for her.

 

Probably the type of guys.

[mesmerized]

Curl your hair?

 

Maybe it is the area, or the type of guys. My sister is about FS's age, and was single until a couple years ago--and is just like me in terms of maintenance and style. Attracting men was never a problem for her.

 

My hair is already curly...they were telling me I should change my curl pattern.

 

Maybe she is just naturally gorgeous or maybe she is happy with whatever male attention she can get, I don't know or maybe your area is different. I want and go after attractive men. I can get the nerdy guys who can't get a girl for their lives anytime I want. For attractive men, there is more competition and being low maintenance apparently doesn't cut it.

[Woggle]

Of course men care about how a woman looks but we don't care about brands or how much clothes cost and we certainly don't care about hand bags.

[ThaWholigan]

Some guys can indeed be extremely discriminating in this regard, I admit. It's not too common, but I see it. I've personally never been too bothered, whatever is hot to me just is.

 

My hair is already curly...they were telling me I should change my curl pattern.

 

Maybe she is just naturally gorgeous or maybe she is happy with whatever male attention she can get, I don't know or maybe your area is different. I want and go after attractive men. I can get the nerdy guys who can't get a girl for their lives anytime I want. For attractive men, there is more competition and being low maintenance apparently doesn't cut it.

 

Do you. I'd imagine you'll bump into an attractive guy who doesn't care. Or do you live in a town where every type of person is the same?

 

I've never been more glad that I live in London