The story of a fool

[Nukem]

Hmmmmm well I'm not very smart either, I only know the one language, aside from enough spanish to order a beer and get my face slapped. :laugh:

 

Your looking at a lot of things and you seem to see a lot of negatives here and a little bit of the picture seems to be coming together.

 

Lets go the other way now and tell me what about her you miss and why you want her back. As much as you'd like to share obviously.

 

TOJAZ

 

You didn't get me well. She needs English for her everyday work. Her boss is French and they communicate in English. Her knowledge doesn't correspond to her high self-confidence. As I said her high opinion about herself is based on her parents achievement. Everyone sees it.

 

As you know English you don't need any other tongue, cause it's international

 

I am at a stage where I am trying to convince myself that I don't miss her and she is a bad person.

[tojaz]

You didn't get me well. She needs English for her everyday work. Her boss is French and they communicate in English. Her knowledge doesn't correspond to her high self-confidence. As I said her high opinion about herself is based on her parents achievement. Everyone sees it.

 

As you know English you don't need any other tongue, cause it's international

 

Ah, as usual the devil is in the details, I see what your trying to say now.

 

I am at a stage where I am trying to convince myself that I don't miss her and she is a bad person.

 

I will strongly suggest that you skip that stage. Its a lie anyway, if it wasn't I'd be spending my time on someone elses thread.

 

You miss her, there is nothing wrong with that. This is an emotional time and the healthiest way to proceed is to allow yourself to feel what you do.

 

There are plenty of angry, bitter people out there acting that stuff out, it doesn't work. There may be a time where you will feel better off without her, then again maybe not. There will be a time when you get angry, but thats nothing your going to talk yourself into and by reading what you have shared here, I think you know that.

 

TOJAZ

[Nukem]

You know what I miss about her.

 

- I like every part of her body - an astrologer told her that she is exactly what I needed

- I miss the quiet evenings watching a movie and reading the subtitles to our girl

- I miss our holiday trips

- I miss massaging her legs,

 

Those who doesn't like the weaknesses of their beloved they can not claim they do love.

[Nukem]

hey all,

 

more documents were needed for drawing up the divorce papers.

She denied to give them. So I organized a meeting at my lawyer .

We both were explained about the procedure.

My wife persisted her lawyer to confirm and I agreed.

She and her parents don't believe me that I don't pretend for her assets.

I proposed her lawyer to prepare the papers. She accepted.

 

She invited me to sit at a cafe. We again had the same talk about my love my guilt, my sins etc.

Next she asked me to see her off to her car.

She initiated conversation about my NC request.

I told her that it is my way to overcome the divorce. I don' t want to see her or hear from her except about questions about our daughter. I don't want to know anything about her life.

 

Few minutes later she phoned me. She again informed me that her lawyer will draw up the papers. She claimed not to stop phoning. She cried.

She didn't denied that she keeps contacting the OM.

 

She said she would come this evening to take the marriage certificate. I agreed. I'll also give her money for the layer's fee.

 

Any comments?

Did I do something wrong?

[Nukem]

I again repeated that I don't want this divorce but I need it.

I need getting divorce and NC in order to get over her.

 

She again replied that it is not Love, it is Egoism.

[Nukem]

Her main argument is she do not trust me. She knows that I will disappoint her again. I reminded her how she betrayed me... but she doesn't count it as a cheating, it is the result of my indifference and not carrying about her, result of our fights and my infidelity (she meant that few years ago I had photos of my female friend on my PC, she was very jealous) etc.

 

I also explained her that a lot of disappointment is waiting ahead in her life. It is a marriage and every marriage has its ups and downs.

 

She remained determined to end the process.

 

I am afraid I shouldn't have been so emotional.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Nukem

[tojaz]

Few minutes later she phoned me. She again informed me that her lawyer will draw up the papers. She claimed not to stop phoning. She cried.

She didn't denied that she keeps contacting the OM.

 

She said she would come this evening to take the marriage certificate. I agreed. I'll also give her money for the layer's fee.

 

Any comments?

Did I do something wrong?

 

I dont think you did anything wrong Nuke, you stuck to your guns. I am curious about what I underlined above. Does that say she denied or didn't deny? Did you ask her? Did you ask her why she cried?

 

I again repeated that I don't want this divorce but I need it.

I need getting divorce and NC in order to get over her.

 

She again replied that it is not Love, it is Egoism.

 

Why does she feel it is egoism? I wouldn't say the divorce is what you need anymore, leave it open ended. Tell her that she has not offered you any other options. She broke it, theres no reason for you to tap dance around that with her, shes the reason for the divorce and she has the power to stop it. Its not for the purpose of laying blame, your both guilty. You want to be very clear that it isn't what you want and that you feel your hand is being forced by her.

 

Her main argument is she do not trust me. She knows that I will disappoint her again. I reminded her how she betrayed me... but she doesn't count it as a cheating, it is the result of my indifference and not carrying about her, result of our fights and my infidelity (she meant that few years ago I had photos of my female friend on my PC, she was very jealous) etc.

 

I also explained her that a lot of disappointment is waiting ahead in her life. It is a marriage and every marriage has its ups and downs.

 

She remained determined to end the process.

 

I am afraid I shouldn't have been so emotional.

 

Emotions are what they are. She already said she has trust problems, if you try and play a role shes going to sniff it out. I would also hesitate to try and "explain" anything to her about how her life is going to go, shes just going to perceive that as ego and dismiss it.

 

Remember, do nothing to reinforce the negative views she carries of you.

 

TOJAZ

[Nukem]

I dont think you did anything wrong Nuke, you stuck to your guns. I am curious about what I underlined above. Does that say she denied or didn't deny? Did you ask her? Did you ask her why she cried?

 

 

 

Why does she feel it is egoism? I wouldn't say the divorce is what you need anymore, leave it open ended. Tell her that she has not offered you any other options. She broke it, theres no reason for you to tap dance around that with her, shes the reason for the divorce and she has the power to stop it. Its not for the purpose of laying blame, your both guilty. You want to be very clear that it isn't what you want and that you feel your hand is being forced by her.

 

 

 

Emotions are what they are. She already said she has trust problems, if you try and play a role shes going to sniff it out. I would also hesitate to try and "explain" anything to her about how her life is going to go, shes just going to perceive that as ego and dismiss it.

 

Remember, do nothing to reinforce the negative views she carries of you.

 

TOJAZ

 

Tojaz,

later we had a call.

She admitted hearing him seldom.

I guess she cried because of NC rule and my wish to overcome her.

The original of the marriage certificate is with her, so she will draw up the papers. She wants to have the option to rely on me.

 

In the evening when I went there to return the certificate she had recovered from our call and was ready to continue our NC and divorce adventure.

So I am afraid I missed the moment.

She agreed not seeing, not calling. Just when needed for our daughter.

She is very stubborn.

 

What's the next step?

[Nukem]

During the call she said she was waiting a sign from God about her real love.

 

I don't know how to continue our saga.

 

I will sign the papers when ready, and then what?

[Nukem]

I also told her that she still has feelings to him.

She didn't answer, so I think she still loves him.

 

She asserts that every woman would choose divorce if I force her like that with that sort of ultimatum.

[Nukem]

I prepared 4 page letter about her all her bull****s, her meetings and having lunches with other men, groundless accusation, about our good memories etc.

 

I'm tempting to send it to her.

[Nukem]

There's another disturbing thing.

While I was there she began taking out my clothes from the wardrobe in front of our girl.

I stopped her.

 

But I think she overacted

[tojaz]

Tojaz,

later we had a call.

She admitted hearing him seldom.

I guess she cried because of NC rule and my wish to overcome her.

The original of the marriage certificate is with her, so she will draw up the papers. She wants to have the option to rely on me.

 

In the evening when I went there to return the certificate she had recovered from our call and was ready to continue our NC and divorce adventure.

So I am afraid I missed the moment.

She agreed not seeing, not calling. Just when needed for our daughter.

She is very stubborn.

 

What's the next step?

 

Next step is to just continue on, it is in her hands now. Just stand firm on what your feelings are. If you don't want the divorce, don't be afraid to tell her that, but also remember that the marriage cannot continue as it was either because it didn't work.

 

you have done what you can, you have left a door open but it is up to her to walk through it and that means she s going to have to let go of some of that pride and get to work on building something better with you.

 

The rest of your part for now is to work on you and the bad parts you brought to the relationship. Becoming a better Nukem, if not for her, then for someone else in the future, but most importantly, for you.

 

TOJAZ

[Nukem]

Should I send the letter with my opinion.

It will make her cry, I'm sure.

There are her sins, her infidelities, her weaknesses, as well as our good moments at the end.

 

She should know my real opinion, I think.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Nukem

[tojaz]

Not now. You don't want to be the one to initiate conversation about these things because then she just falls back to her defenses.

 

This isn't about pointing out her sins and her pointing out yours, its not offense and defense, its about building a better life and working on yourself.

 

The plus side is that she may just like the changes that she sees, and may be inspired to make some of her own.

 

If you send the letter now, what do you think shes gonna say to it? I'm betting she will chalk it up to your egoism by pointing out her flaws and then retreat behind the standard "you won't understand" not a desireable outcome, keep the letter locked away for now.

 

TOJAZ

[Nukem]

Yesterday I told her that due to her wish to have a familiy she had broke up two marriages. It was a mistake.

She replied that I tried to appear her behavioir as whore.

 

Later on her warm attitude was disappeared. And she was ready to move on with the papers.

[jphcbpa]

sounds like she is a narcissist

 

Did The Narcissist Ever Really Love Me?

[Nukem]

sounds like she is a narcissist

 

Did The Narcissist Ever Really Love Me?

 

While reading this article I began to doubt about myself.

The narcissist description seems valid for both of us

[tojaz]

Yesterday I told her that due to her wish to have a familiy she had broke up two marriages. It was a mistake.

She replied that I tried to appear her behavioir as whore.

 

You bet it was a mistake. (says Tojaz as he beats his head against a wall). You can't tell her things like that, thats you trying to turn things back on her.

 

Its not a concious thing, but anything you try to "explain" about her actions, shes going to be more then ready to turn around and drop on you. Thats the number one defense mechanism, the more you give her to turn around, the more rope your giving her to hang you. Shes not going to see it the way you do and shes not going to take it the way you intend.

 

She knows what she has done, doesn't need for you to point it out and theres nothing there for you anyway except a small bit of satisfaction from saying it to her.

 

Keep in mind that the idea is not to drive her further away, you have to think about what you say, not just what you want to say, but all the negative ways she can turn it around on you. There is a bit of strategy involved here.

 

Yesterday I told her that due to her wish to have a familiy she had broke up two marriages.

 

What does this mean?

 

TOJAZ

[Nukem]

She was explaining me how much she had wanted to build a strong household because she had been grown up in such (and I wasn't able to provide it) and I answered that stupid thing.

 

She again said that I would never forgive her.

And I replied that at least there is something which I need to forgive, till now all was my blame.

 

How do you think are my odds?

Edited April 19, 2012 by Nukem

[Dark Phoenix]

While reading this article I began to doubt about myself.

The narcissist description seems valid for both of us

 

Good for you for being aware of this!!!!!

 

You are figuring it out

[tojaz]

She was explaining me how much she had wanted to build a strong household because she had been grown up in such (and I wasn't able to provide it) and I answered that stupid thing.

 

She again said that I would never forgive her.

And I replied that at least there is something which I need to forgive, till now all was my blame.

 

How do you think are my odds?

 

I gave up trying to handicap relationships nuke. I gave pretty good odds on my ex wife and ended up losing it all.

 

There are things you can do to improve your odds though, and thats what i have been posting to you.

 

Right now she is looking for all the excuses she can find to remain resolute. Your job is to not give her any more.

 

Up until now you both have had a pretty good tit for tat going, unfortunately that isn't going to help you.

 

Are you able to forgive her for what she has done? I'm truly talking forgiveness here, the kind of forgiveness that would allow you both to start fresh if the opportunity would arise. Forgiveness without conditions and without doubt.

 

Spend a little bit really thinking about that and think about why you couldn't provide that strong household. Once again, not looking for you to defend yourself, or why it was her fault. Just answer the question as honestly as you can.

 

TOJAZ

[Nukem]

I am sure I forgave her. I just cannot understand how she continue repeating my wrongs without keeping in mind what she had been forgiven. At last she admitted that she had made many mistakes. But who carres.

 

Regarding her strong familiy. She's comletely wrong. Her father and mother are living in separate rooms. In her childhood my my wife tried commiting suicude becuse of her father insulting behaviour.

[Nukem]

In our conversation after visiting the lawyer she said that I was very fast in cashing my good behaviour. And I reminded her about her requests not to sleep in her flat, not to go so often etc. And the divorce is the logical outcome. She is rediculous in her conclusions, in her vews.

[Nukem]

Good for you for being aware of this!!!!!

 

You are figuring it out

 

I am wandering whether I am the narcissist or she is. Or both.