The story of a fool

[Nukem]

+1. this is EXACTLY what im talking about women acting like this these days. if it were the man, all evil and curses to them....

 

Hey Firehawk,

she was inexperienced 25 years old girl, disappointed by her marriage life, by her first love. He was experienced skirt-chaser, a cheater. She had no chances against him. She was helpless. Not to mention my contribution at the final stage.

[tojaz]

If I'm getting you right I'll stay passive.

 

Acting agreeable and patient because I'm the leak.

 

I'll continue reading The 5 love language, tnttim's post...

 

Is that ok?

 

You don't need my permission or anyone elses. Theres a lot of good in 5 love languages and in tims threads. Read as much as you can, get as many different angles as you can. The idea is to get ahead of the curve, see what is coming next so you can avoid falling into all the traps and pitfalls around you.

 

I'm not saying stay passive and let her walk all over you, I'm saying that your attention is better spent on the things that you actually have control over, and thats you. You can't change her, her actions or her perception. You could be Mother Teresa and if she chooses to see you as Satan theres nothing you can really do about that.

 

Rather then agreeable consider it being open. What I'm saying is, If she says your egotistical and you don't feel you are, Dont say "yeah thats me I'm sorry" if you don't believe it, but don't say "No I'm not and this is why your wrong" either. Instead work towards what about you makes her feel that way. If you happen to be communicating at the moment, ask her and ask her not in a way for you to defend yourself point for point but from a position of trying to understand where that perception comes from.

 

Communication is at its best when there is a shared viewpoint, thats not necessarily agreement, but its common ground, a place to start. Theres a grey area to everything in these situations. You admitted you shoved her and while you feel guilt and are remorseful you don't see it as "beating" her, but her perception may be very different based on many factors, your size, the look in your eyes, context of the situation. I'll bet she was scared.

 

Your not the leak, neither is she. Its something you created together. Your both so busy pointing fingers at who made the leak, and who's going to fix it, that you are missing the fact that your up to chest in water!! (I know, too many analogies )

 

TOJAZ

[Nukem]

Toj,

I've just brought them the girl.

Her mother didn't answered my hello.

Her bro was there but he is my friend and he remains neutral.

While I was going out along the alley she entered with her car. I just waved with my hand and got in my car.

 

It seems things are irreversible.

[tojaz]

Toj,

I've just brought them the girl.

Her mother didn't answered my hello.

Her bro was there but he is my friend and he remains neutral.

While I was going out along the alley she entered with her car. I just waved with my hand and got in my car.

Sounds fine to me, your giving her space, remained cordial, kept your cool, well done.

 

 

It seems things are irreversible.

What makes you think that?

 

TOJAZ

[Nukem]

Sounds fine to me, your giving her space, remained cordial, kept your cool, well done.

 

 

 

What makes you think that?

 

TOJAZ

 

If you'r remember well I requested NC and she accepted it as a challenge.

And she maintain it.

Her mother helps her in her constancy.

[Nukem]

I called her brother. He told me that a lawyer is involved and she won't stop. She admitted to him about me shoving her, but they all know that I am not aggressive.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Nukem

[Nukem]

She is determined to get rid of me.

[tojaz]

Time will tell Nuke, thats no reason to stop or give up exploring ways to better yourself. If your just doing it for her then your not really doing it anyway.

 

TOJAZ

[Nukem]

Toj,

I'm desperate. I cannot believe how stupid I was. I had so many chances.

[Nukem]

I'll tell you the whole truth.

I was her firsr man as well as she was my first woman.

She was my first girlfriend. I've never had another woman in my life.

I cannot imagine living with different woman. And she does'n trust me.

Because of my pride, my manipulation, my stupidity I lost her.

 

And even lost the chance to have her as friend.

[Nukem]

How to live with this thoughts.

How to forgive to myself.

[Nukem]

Toj,

 

in our last conversation in Tuesday she wanted me not to go LC or NC.

Don't you think that LC/NC is increasing her negative feelings?

[tojaz]

Toj,

I'm desperate. I cannot believe how stupid I was. I had so many chances.

Easy Nuke. Desperation breeds panic and panic brings poor decisions, keep your head in the game here.

 

I'll tell you the whole truth.

I was her firsr man as well as she was my first woman.

She was my first girlfriend. I've never had another woman in my life.

I cannot imagine living with different woman. And she does'n trust me.

Because of my pride, my manipulation, my stupidity I lost her.

 

And even lost the chance to have her as friend.

 

Nuke, anything and everything takes time, and this especially takes time and growth. She isn't lost until the deed is done and even then who knows what the future holds. You were each others first, you both were learning about love and relationships as you went along. Theres going to be mistakes.

 

What I'm saying is now's the time to fix them! Truth be told, it may not be for her, but do it for you. Your so focused on having her back, but then what? Back to what was? That didn't work Nuke, thats why your here. Your so focused and desperate for a way to TELL her you can be a better guy, I'm saying SHOW her. Improve yourself, be that better guy, maybe she just might like what she sees.

 

So you have listed here.... Pride, Manipulation, (I'm going to leave out stupidity because you do not strike me as so.) What are you going to do to change that?

 

How to live with this thoughts.

How to forgive to myself.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/198393-love-always-all-ways

 

Heres an instance way back when i was beating myself up like that, skip down to post #10 from Gunny, read it, then read it again! Print it out and keep it in your back pocket if you have to.

 

Toj,

 

in our last conversation in Tuesday she wanted me not to go LC or NC.

Don't you think that LC/NC is increasing her negative feelings?

Hmmmmm you had said she had taken it on as a challenge if i remember right. I cannot tell you if it increases her negative feelings or not, I haven't met her. How exactly did you phrase it to her?

 

TOJAZ

[Nukem]

Nukem, you have to stop. You sound like you have no personality - what the **** - WAKE UP. You are your own person and if she doesn't want you she can **** off. I AM PISSED OFF FOR YOU. STOP LETTING HER HAVE SO MUCH POWER OF YOU - WHO CARES WHAT SHE HOLDS AGAINST YOU. It's all a bunch of bullcrap she is feeding you, to put ALL blame on you. She is justifying all her actions and keeping you on the hook for the what if. PLEASE stop. You want to become a better person? DO SO, you want to change for the better? DO SO but NOT FOR HER, FOR YOURSELF and maybe some other woman down the line. If she wants you, she will fight for you. WHY DO YOU WANT TO BE WITH A WOMAN THAT DOES NOT WANT YOU? pleaseeeee for your own sake and your daughter's sake, wake up. You can't be a good parent if you are not somewhat happy.

 

I did not want to sound harsh, but I see what you are doing and how you are blaming yourself for everything and kissing her ass. It does not matter how beautiful she is on the outside, she is ugly in the inside. I am not saying go date an unattractive woman with a good personality, but beauty is not everything. DON'T BE HYPNOTIZED.

 

I had to reread the thread to collect more power.

Thank you guys, thank you for being with me.

[Nukem]

Yep, Gunny is great

Thank you again Toj. You're helping me a lot.

 

I told her that I prefer not to see her, not to hear from her, not know what she doing or working. I need time to heal myself the same way how she needed time and needed me for healing herself from the OM. If I know she is with another man it would hurt me thats why I need NC. She wanted not to use her parents for median but later on she agreed. She also guessed that divorce and NC is not my idea, her suggestion was that somebody had advised me.

 

She told me that she understood not seeing, but needed phoning.

I answered that I didn't need separation and D but it happened.

She blamed that I'am revenging.

Asked me how did I prefer to deliver the girl and so on...

[Nukem]

In short I explained that I need Divorce and NC in order to cut off my hopes.

And may be after months when I am recovered we can meet again.

She answered it was sort of blackmailing.

I was very emotional.

[Nukem]

So you have listed here.... Pride, Manipulation, (I'm going to leave out stupidity because you do not strike me as so.) What are you going to do to change that?

 

TOJAZ

 

You know. First off I need to show I don't need her money.

Second I should concentrate on my projects and lessons.

I'll continue our weekend activities with my girl.

I'll finish the books which Owl recommended.

 

What else I can do?

[Nukem]

That is very useful, written by tnttim:

 

"If you want her back you better act right now, time is still on your side, you have to listen to me if you want to do this right. Read my story if you want to. Here's your rundown.

1. Stop trying to save the marriage, it's dead.

2. Push the divorce 100%, show no fear no matter how hard.

3. Go no contact, or limited contact. you'll see NC or LC in posts.

4. Go out and meet new people. It's a 2 for 1 deal.

5. Agree with whatever she says, no matter how illogical.

6. Read some books on how to meet woman, or understand woman

7. Turn into single man as fast as possible. Your marriage is over.

8. Do not drink or use drugs in excess.

9. EAT

10. Exercise and take care of your health.

11. Buy some new clothes, another 2 for 1 deal

12. Do not ever tell her, I love you, or I miss you. ACT HAPPY

13. Scrap the MC and tell her she is right it's over, and why bother.

14. Change a bad habit in your life, now's the time.

15. Read some loveshack posts, especially the one's that mirror her feelings

16. Keep conversations with her strictly business, money and kids.

17. Keep all communication to under 10 mins, and you end the interaction.

18. Try to remember what drew her to you and become that guy again.

19. You can't change the past only the future, stop dwelling on what you did wrong, you can't change it, or learn from it if you dwell.

 

I know you think I'm crazy but this stuff works, I'm a product of this way of thinking and changing. I've been here 4 months and I'm light years ahead of most of the people on here. I had the luxury of finding this site early in my seperation, maybe 2 weeks after. This site has a wealth of good and bad information. The one thing I did before following anyone's advice was answer 2 questions, 1. do they have their spouse back. 2. if they don't, did they see their mistakes and offer advice based on their mistakes. I received some very bad advice, which I wisely dismissed. Read Homer Macdonld's "Stop Your Divorce" One hell of a book. Counterintuitive thinking will get your wife back, remember that."

Edited April 24, 2012 by Nukem

[tojaz]

Yep, Gunny is great

Thank you again Toj. You're helping me a lot.

 

I told her that I prefer not to see her, not to hear from her, not know what she doing or working. I need time to heal myself the same way how she needed time and needed me for healing herself from the OM. If I know she is with another man it would hurt me thats why I need NC. She wanted not to use her parents for median but later on she agreed. She also guessed that divorce and NC is not my idea, her suggestion was that somebody had advised me.

 

She told me that she understood not seeing, but needed phoning.

I answered that I didn't need separation and D but it happened.

She blamed that I'am revenging.

Asked me how did I prefer to deliver the girl and so on...

 

In short I explained that I need Divorce and NC in order to cut off my hopes.

And may be after months when I am recovered we can meet again.

She answered it was sort of blackmailing.

I was very emotional.

 

Shes smarter then you give her credit for. I think you did see it as some sort of revenge. Maybe not outright, but a little subconciously. That was probably brought on by her resisting it at first and then she turned the tables on you. Thats not the right mindset to have going in, and its not right for every situation. You tried to push the divorce as an attempt to bring her to the table and she called your bluff.

 

Thats why I have never liked the Homer/Tim approach. It depends on manipulating the situation, in a small percentage of cases it can work. Usually when the WAS is in the early stages, a way to shock them into reason I guess. It is something to maybe be tried, but not sustained. You guys are not in the early stages, your a year in if i remember right. Shes looked under every bed and peeked around every corner and remained resolute.

 

You know. First off I need to show I don't need her money.

Second I should concentrate on my projects and lessons.

I'll continue our weekend activities with my girl.

I'll finish the books which Owl recommended.

 

What else I can do?

 

First off, you dont need to show her anything, believe for yourself that you don't need her money. Grandstanding is a form of manipulation. Which is one of her complaints about you. What have I said since day one....DO NOTHING THAT WILL REINFORCE HER NEGATIVE VIEWS.

 

I took a minute and read through your posts and your still looking for ways and techniques to bring her back. Once again, Manipulation, and yes i know thats hard and some of my advice does the same thing.

 

Remove her from the equation for now. Any action you take, if it runs through your head tat it might convince her or show her something, then its probably wrong. Do it for yourself. Do you feel your manipulative? Do you feel your egotistical? If so is that something you want to change for you? Quit making it about her, if you change yourself into exactly what she wants would you be happy? Im guessing probably not. Find a you that YOU are happy with, work on the changes that are best for you and see what emerges.

 

As for the D, its in her hands right now, but its a marathon, not a sprint, even if shes fast out of the gate the race isn't over. Hang on to a little hope, just dont try and force it.

 

TOJAZ

[Nukem]

I've never done NC or LC.

But she always suspects about lying. As I said she consider herself as not so naive. That's why she always doubts.

And keep in mind that she can build up her negative feelings without reason. It is her personal trait, I guess.

 

However it seems my rollercoster is running with full power.

 

As Owl said even if we recon there is small chance for keeping the marriage healthy.

So I am absolutely aware that my odds are tiny.

[Nukem]

yep, I think it's in coma. And I am going to cut the systems.

[Nukem]

I think no. After shutting down the systems it may continue sleeping. Or I'm dreaming.

[Nukem]

the hopes die last

I should be optimistic at least till the D day.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Nukem

[Nukem]

thanks coop,

[tojaz]

TOJAZ...shall i give my quids worth or keep out??

 

Wasnt aware I got to make those decisions Coop! Nothing I hate more then being the only guy on a thread, always like to hear other peoples opinions and its all the better for Nuke.

 

I've never done NC or LC.

But she always suspects about lying. As I said she consider herself as not so naive. That's why she always doubts.

And keep in mind that she can build up her negative feelings without reason. It is her personal trait, I guess.

 

However it seems my rollercoster is running with full power.

 

As Owl said even if we recon there is small chance for keeping the marriage healthy.

So I am absolutely aware that my odds are tiny.

 

Shes building up negative feelings, but its not without reason. The reason is plain as day...... to someone looking in from the outside. Shes breeding negative feelings in order to justify her actions. Think about it? What sounds better to you?

 

I'm leaving because he beats me, because hes a liar, hes manipulative

 

I'm leaving to snog another guy

 

I know which one would get my support, and so does she. I know that may seem harsh Nuke, but you have to keep it in persceptive. What she says doesn't mean S**T!!! She will turn you into whatever she has to in order for her to come out clean. Its an ugly little truth Nuke do not let her define you. You know who you are, what you think, and what you have done or didn't do. You are not what she says just because she said it.

 

Make it about you Nuke, to hell with her. What she is right now is nothing you want. Sure you have changes to make, so make them.

 

Now, as for your marriage, is it over? Cant answer that. I'm not one to give up hope, your learning she may wake up, maybe tomorrow, maybe years from now, but also maybe never. There isn't a thing you can do about that. Every technique, every self help book, every poster here can't do anything about that. Thats why it has to be about YOU!

 

I can make you one promise though Nuke, if all you can do is think of yourself in the context of her, then you are going to fall hard and she will twist your head into a pretzel, your going to by every word, swallow the blame and make yourself miserable. Or you can stand up, know who you are, own whats yours in all of this and lay the rest of her crap at her feet. Once she doesn't have you to blame theres only one person left to look at. If she wakes up and does that, then you have a chance, if she can't, then your better off.

 

Shes not going to even consider that though unless you stop carrying all the blame for her. So sit down think about all the things that happened to get you guys where you are. Whats yours? Thats where you start!

 

TOJAZ