Kinda stuck, not sure what to do...

[buoy]

I'd love to get some advice on my relationship. It's complicated and I'm starting to think about ending it, despite being pretty heavily invested. This is a "do I stay or do I go?" question or a "too good to leave but too bad to stay" question. But it's complicated so be prepared to read on.

 

We grew up together. Childhood sweethearts. Eventually I moved away. Fast forward 20 years. We're both in our mid-30s. She looks me up. We start emailing. Turns out she lives in the same city as me and only a few miles away. I kinda blow her off for a while, not taking it seriously at all. We'd been completely out of contact for many years. Eventually she wants to meet up. My curiosity eventually gives in, so I invite her over.

 

The picture in my mind of how I thought she had turned out (based on the place that we grew up) could not have been more wrong. She was gorgeous, classy, charming, and fun. Sparks flew right off the bat. She was vague about her relationship status up to this point, but that night she tells me she's married…but it has been on the rocks for a year and it's ending. She also has 2 kids. I'm single, no kids, never been married, a few months out of my last relationship with no good prospects for a few months.

 

Now, I know what you're going to say. I completely get it. I've been over it a million times. I had a perfect record of fidelity in my relationships at this time. I talked to her at length about her marriage and how if it was over then she needed to end it and do things right. I'm normally cut and dry about that sort of thing. If she wanted to start up with me, then end it with him. But, against my better judgement, I didn't stop seeing her. We were very attracted to each other. And so the affair started. She assures me that her and her husband are done. They are married on paper, but are roommates only and are only together because of the kids.

 

It was very casual in the beginning. I had no intentions. Fast forward 6 mos. I'm starting to have some serious feelings for her. She two steps ahead, tells me she loves me. But, I'm very frustrated at this point, telling her I'm tired of compromising my integrity by being in this sort of relationship, tired of being ashamed, etc. She listens, is compassionate, pledges to take care of it, make things right. But it's very slow going. She says she's getting her stuff in order, preparing for the divorce.

 

She says if it was just her, she would be gone already. But her kids complicate the situation. She doesn't have a degree. Her husband wanted her to be a stay at home mom when they got married. So, she no means to provide for herself or them. She and the kids are entirely dependent financially on him. She understands she's going to have to get a job, that she'll need to go back to school and get a degree to get that side of her life on track. You know, become a self-sufficient single parent. This is scary for her. I try to be supportive and help where I can.

 

I draw a line around my last bit of integrity and tell her I won't meet the kids under any circumstance until she is divorced. I've stuck to it.

 

Things settle into a sort of pattern. Our relationship continues to develop. I get tired of harping on her about the divorce, so I give her some space to take care of it and only bring it up occasionally. It's always a fight. We become closer, fall in love. Our relationship was going great, except for the elephant in the room. She made the relationship convenient for me. It worked well with my busy schedule, etc.

 

Every few months, I would run out of patience, reach the end of my rope and threaten to end things if she doesn't get things taken care of soon, etc. I told her that I was so tired of being in an "affair". That I just wanted a normal relationship, one that I didn't have to be ashamed about. On one hand, I want to tell everyone about us, because she makes me so happy. Then, I remember she's married and feel no pride in that. So, I've kept it on the DL. I implore her to make things right.

 

Every few months we would repeat this cycle. I have gotten to the point of ending it a few times, but it doesn't last for even a day. I love her and I know she loves me. There's no doubt of that for either of us, even though it took a long, long time for me to trust her because of her willingness to cheat w/me. FWIW, her current marriage started this same way, it's her 2nd. She has been to therapy since we've been together and has learned that this isn't a healthy pattern.

 

A year and a half in, her husband finally moves out. I think, "great, it's about time, finally a light at the end of the tunnel." But here we are several months later, in a holding pattern. She's scared of having to provide for herself after being out of the workforce. The husband is banking her whole operation, assuming that he's paying less now than if they were to divorce. Neither of them seem particularly motivated to end it, despite both of them moving on with other relationships. She still isn't putting much effort into finding a job or getting school figured out. Going through the motions at best.

 

This lack of motivation is what is really fueling my thoughts of ending it once and for all, based on rationality this time and not anger. I'm a highly motivated person. Never been married. Very into my career and being successful and being self-sufficient, productive, etc. I want to balance career and family and want a partner who will do the same. (NOTE: I'm not saying anything negative about those that choose the stay-at-home mom route, it's just not for me.)

 

I don't like the idea of her going from her husband's house where she's taken care of, straight into mine. I'd like her to establish some sort of independent identity. We've talked at length about this how she can accomplish it. She's given me the impression that she's on-board with it and made some attempts (however thin) at starting things. They just don't go anywhere. She talks about needing to get a job, tries for a few hours and then gives up. She tells me the other day that she doesn't know if she can do all that she needs to do, that I want her to, because she's "not a very motivated person" and that she might not be able to get things together they way we have been planning. This would have been nice to know earlier.

 

I can see myself with her in the future. I haven't really found that before and it's really hard to walk away from. I also dread being single again and having to spend all of my free time weeding through a lot of Ms. Wrongs to find someone I could envision a future with. The thought of having to hit the bars again and play the single game is not appealing. I'll suck it up if I have to, but I won't like it.

 

I also know that I won't be able to find someone like her easily. She's beautiful, fit, very loving, caring, and affectionate, great in the sack, is a great mom to her kids, etc. She has a lot to offer in many ways. So here I am conflicted. I'm sick of being in a holding pattern, want to move forward somehow, with or without her I guess. I'm so tired of promises and re-assurances that either go incredibly slow or don't happen at all. I'm not getting follow through. I would have not gotten involved if I thought we be where we are at in 2 years. Nevertheless, here we are and we're both heavily invested.. When is enough enough? Should I stay or should I go?

Edited April 8, 2012 by buoy
title typo

[whichwayisup]

End it and tell her to call you when the D is final and she's had some time to sort herself out, adjust to all the changes that a divorce brings. Then you can 'casually' date her. Get to know eachother again outside of the affair dynamic and slowly build something together.

 

She HAS to live on her own and learn some independence before ending her marriage and starting a new life with you. One cannot end a long term marriage with kids and expect to build a new life with someone else as soon as the ink dries on the D papers. Not healthy for anybody!

 

Tell her you love her but arent going to stay in the affair anymore, you don't want to be the OM in her life. Give this a time limit (like don't wait around for the "oh yeah I am divorcing by summer, then summer comes and she tells you I can't because the kids start school soon..Then there's holidays, birthdays, etc...Excuses as to why not to leave) so you don't wait for years for her to decide.

[Gentlegirl2]

It becomes a pattern... it all gets too much for the singleAP who ends things, then the NC hurts like hell and it start all over again..

 

It's a vicious cycle and somebody has to be strong enough to end it.

 

YOu are right about her needing to establish her own life. Then you can find out if you can get along together under a different dynamic.

 

I disagree that shes being a great Mum or a great anything at the moment. Her actions can be very detrimental to her children'ts lives if she doesn't get her life together .

I do wish you all the best and hope it works out the right way for everyone concerned.

 

If you do a bit of back reading here, you will occasionally find a post from somebody who married their AP. It isn't all a bed of roses.

 

GG

[buoy]

Thanks for the responses so far. Would love to hear from others.

 

FWIW, I also posted this over at Ask Metafilter. The crowd over there was mostly not sympathetic. I was pretty surprised by that actually...

 

When is enough enough? - divorce affair motivation | Ask MetaFilter

[2sunny]

Anytime you have to sacrifice your integrity for love - it isn't love.

 

Run!

 

She's like a ball and chain and will drag you down. She sees a new free ride... Don't let her do that to you.

 

She has so much work to do on herself - and you can't do it for her.

 

She needs to work, support herself, raise her kids and know she can DO LIFE on her own. Otherwise she's just not gonna grow- and it sucks to be with someone not growing.

 

Run!

[bentnotbroken]

Thanks for the responses so far. Would love to hear from others.

 

FWIW, I also posted this over at Ask Metafilter. The crowd over there was mostly not sympathetic. I was pretty surprised by that actually...

 

When is enough enough? - divorce affair motivation | Ask MetaFilter

 

 

So is the link needed for you to get responses for your situation or is it a promotion for something else?

[alexandria35]

You want a hardworking independant woman and she wants a man to take care of her and her kids. The two of you are at opposite ends and one of you is going to have to change your wants. I think it's going to be you because if your gf doesn't have the desire to do things for herself then she isn't going to. She might try a few little steps here and there but if you marry her she will quit whatever she's doing and just become dependant on you because that's what she likes to do. She's cheated on 2 guys already and you get to be number 3. Lucky you.

[wannabdone]

I also know that I won't be able to find someone like her easily. She's beautiful, fit, very loving, caring, and affectionate, great in the sack, is a great mom to her kids, etc. She has a lot to offer in many ways. So here I am conflicted. I'm sick of being in a holding pattern, want to move forward somehow, with or without her I guess. I'm so tired of promises and re-assurances that either go incredibly slow or don't happen at all. I'm not getting follow through. I would have not gotten involved if I thought we be where we are at in 2 years. Nevertheless, here we are and we're both heavily invested.. When is enough enough? Should I stay or should I go?

 

She might be loving, fit, beautiful, great mom, great in the sack, and affectionate.... all qualities most ppl look for in mates. But there is one quality that she doesn't have.... AVAILABLE.

 

That one kind of trumps all the others... don't you think???

[alexandria35]

OP I had a look at the link you posted and I have to say that thier arguments have some merit too. If you were to lay the cheating aspect aside for a moment you still have to wonder why on earth you went after this relationship.

 

Not all people are highly motivated, career driven, or hard working. Doesn't make them bad people. Differents strokes for different folks. Perhaps your gf doesn't really desire this career oriented life that you picture but tells you she does because that's what you want to hear. Perhaps she really longs to just stay home with the kids and be a homemaker (of course cheating doesn't have any part of being a good homemaker) but she doesn't want to say so because you put so much pressure on her to be someone different than who she is? Why are with her when she doesn't meet any of your standards. By the sounds of it you want a faithfull wife with a successful career so to get this you pursued an unfaithful stay at home woman, and now you are not happy with what you got. Lol...why do people think they have the right or the power to just change people into different people? You encouraged and participated in getting this woman to oust her husband from his home and his family and you want her to divorce him, but you don't want any of her responsibilites to land on your shoulders. You want her but only if she and her kids don't become any kind of burden on you. I think the both of you are making a mistake in choosing to be with each other. Is she wants a guy to be step daddy to her kids I don't think you are a good choice for that. If you want a woman who is faithful and hardworking, she is not a good choice for you.

[Owl]

I can see myself with her in the future.

 

Here's your litmus test. Describe this for me. What's this look like to you? Especially in the light of her "lack of motivation", her apparent desire not to establish herself as her "own person", and given the fact that if/when she divorces, her H is still going to remain in her life to some degree because of the children.

 

Given all of that...what does this picture of life with her look like 2 years from now? 5?

[East7]

You encouraged and participated in getting this woman to oust her husband from his home and his family and you want her to divorce him, but you don't want any of her responsibilites to land on your shoulders. You want her but only if she and her kids don't become any kind of burden on you. I think the both of you are making a mistake in choosing to be with each other. Is she wants a guy to be step daddy to her kids I don't think you are a good choice for that. If you want a woman who is faithful and hardworking, she is not a good choice for you.

 

OP, alexandria has made some good points.

 

I have been in your shoes in some aspects (xMW was childhood sweetheart, I was single when I met her etc etc...)

 

First off, I think you have some serious self-esteem issues : Why is this woman the BEST in the world for you? You sound like a decent guy, yet you are so desperate about getting married and having a life with her to fill your own life.

 

You might really love this woman very deeply BUT if you want her, you need to take material responsibility and face the whole package : kids, stay-at-home wife, eventually taking her to vacations, giving her your Visa card to buy shoes etc etc...

Love is not enough my friend, especially if you want to be with a high-maintenance woman. So far, you have only enjoyed her as a "lover", no bills or issues to face, nice lingerie etc...If you want her for the "best" you have to take her for the "worst" as well.

 

It is very obvious thta she wants to be a housewife, she doesn't want to work, and probably this is the determinant factor of how she chooses men, so what you see is what you get. Deal with it or leave her with her husband. You can't have it both ways.

 

The last but not the least : Despite the fact that you love her, you acknowledge that she is VERY different from your ideal woman, at least from the material point of view. Suppose you two end up together for good, this differences will grow bigger and bigger, once the passion will cool down. Love is not enough without compatibility and you may see her very differently some years from now. Think about it.

[buoy]

OP, alexandria has made some good points.

 

I have been in your shoes in some aspects (xMW was childhood sweetheart, I was single when I met her etc etc...)

 

First off, I think you have some serious self-esteem issues : Why is this woman the BEST in the world for you? You sound like a decent guy, yet you are so desperate about getting married and having a life with her to fill your own life.

You might really love this woman very deeply BUT if you want her, you need to take material responsibility and face the whole package : kids, stay-at-home wife, eventually taking her to vacations, giving her your Visa card to buy shoes etc etc...

Love is not enough my friend, especially if you want to be with a high-maintenance woman. So far, you have only enjoyed her as a "lover", no bills or issues to face, nice lingerie etc...If you want her for the "best" you have to take her for the "worst" as well.

 

It is very obvious thta she wants to be a housewife, she doesn't want to work, and probably this is the determinant factor of how she chooses men, so what you see is what you get. Deal with it or leave her with her husband. You can't have it both ways.

 

The last but not the least : Despite the fact that you love her, you acknowledge that she is VERY different from your ideal woman, at least from the material point of view. Suppose you two end up together for good, this differences will grow bigger and bigger, once the passion will cool down. Love is not enough without compatibility and you may see her very differently some years from now. Think about it.

 

Most of your post is spot on, thanks. But, the bolded paragraph--you lost me. Not sure how you made those leaps, but they're off-base IMO. Self-esteem? Mine's fine. Desperate to get married? That couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm usually accused of being the guy who won't ever settle down by the girls I date. That's a recurring theme. I don't fall in love easy at all.

 

I wouldn't characterize her as the BEST girl on the planet for me--there's millions of girls I've never met, someone is bound to be better if I keep looking. Do I think I could find someone else to make me just as happy--yes. Do you I think I could find a better mix of compatibility (especially as far as the kids & career situations)--yes. BUT! the question is how long would it take and would that actually happen, realistically. In the two years I've been with her, I haven't found anyone else in the same ballpark. I've abandoned the idea that there is anyone meant for anyone out there. It's a pros/cons game with anyone you meet. I'm trying to weigh out whether the amount of good outweighs the bad.

 

She just happens to be the best mix I've found so far (sans the married part, of course), and I'm currently in a relationship with her, and there's a really strong bond there. So I'm giving her more consideration than I would if I were to judge the merits of the relationship on paper, if that makes sense.

 

On paper, it doesn't make sense. Normally I would never be in a relationship with a MW or with kids (especially the MW part). But here I am.

[buoy]

Lack of motivation goes both ways, since you also clearly lack the motivation and integrity to "weed through" Unattached women. This relationship was MUCH less work for you, as you've known her since you were kids and you also didn't have to lift a finger, since she found you to be the next sucker. It also seems to be too much work for you to find a fit, attractive girlfriend. Based on the above bolded - I can see why you're still single.

 

LOL seriously? Overkill don't you think? You don't have anywhere near enough info about me to make that kind of judgement.

 

I've weeded through many already (this one is the only attached one, thanks, and the last), I'm just not looking forward to having to do it again. That's not unusual. I'm pretty far removed from the lifestyle, especially nightlife. Yes, dating is not my first priority and I'm okay with that. I don't need to be dating someone constantly to be happy. If I did, obviously I would shift my priorities.

 

The rest of your post was ace, thanks.

[buoy]

End it and tell her to call you when the D is final and she's had some time to sort herself out, adjust to all the changes that a divorce brings. Then you can 'casually' date her. Get to know eachother again outside of the affair dynamic and slowly build something together.

 

She HAS to live on her own and learn some independence before ending her marriage and starting a new life with you. One cannot end a long term marriage with kids and expect to build a new life with someone else as soon as the ink dries on the D papers. Not healthy for anybody!

 

Tell her you love her but arent going to stay in the affair anymore, you don't want to be the OM in her life. Give this a time limit (like don't wait around for the "oh yeah I am divorcing by summer, then summer comes and she tells you I can't because the kids start school soon..Then there's holidays, birthdays, etc...Excuses as to why not to leave) so you don't wait for years for her to decide.

 

Thank you. Yes, this is what I've wanted. The thing that messes with me is that I'm not the only one pushing. She talks a lot about our future together, a life that we could have, etc. etc. She pushes for that and I have to be like "hey, we can't even consider that stuff, because you're STILL MARRIED."

 

But yeah, I've wanted out of this affair forever, I want a normal relationship with her.

[buoy]

She might be loving, fit, beautiful, great mom, great in the sack, and affectionate.... all qualities most ppl look for in mates. But there is one quality that she doesn't have.... AVAILABLE.

 

That one kind of trumps all the others... don't you think???

 

I can't disagree with that. I won't make that mistake again. But I'm in the situation already. I don't have any doubt that she will end things with her ex finally (currently separated). The question is will it be before I get fed up with the situation and move on or not.

[wannabdone]

I can't disagree with that. I won't make that mistake again. But I'm in the situation already. I don't have any doubt that she will end things with her ex finally (currently separated). The question is will it be before I get fed up with the situation and move on or not.

 

 

Nope, I totally understand what your saying. Whats done is done. Have you ever thought about that outside of you becoming "fed up" with the situation before her M is dissolved, that you might decide you really don't want her. I am not trying to be hateful, but you said you have never been the M'ing type. Have you thought about if it isn't a chase for you and that interests you?

 

Again, please don't take my comment as rude. I am sincerely asking.