For those who think Jesus is a myth...

[wuggle]

Now talk about Reptilians!

 

Yes let's I love it when they swallow those mice things whole in one go...brilliant

[florence of suburbia]

Stories in and for themselves are all powerful. Stories transcend time and space and the boundaries of self and other. Whether the plots and characters of those stories are literally true is irrelevent and the question is based on a category mistake.

 

Story is what turns the chaotic universe into something human and that is what humans do.

[M30USA]

But isn't that also your problem?

That the bible is only theory?

there isn't one single thing mentioned in the bible that has irrevocably been shown to be fact.

It's just one long-winded supposition.....

 

LOL! That is hilarious. Nothing in the Bible has been proven? Wow, I didn't realize just how badly I've been wasting my time here. I suppose you can't prove the sky is blue either.

 

BTW, just as a starting point: the Bible records a tribe called the Hittites. No other source told of such a people. The Bible got laughed at. Lo and behold, a few decades ago the Hittites were discovered in the exact location which the Bible documents. Your statement about the Bible not having any verified info is so incredibly laughable. In fact the OPPOSITE is true: even secular historians have used the Bible to corroborate their research.

[TaraMaiden]

You can't be serious.

 

It is a matter of considerable scholarly debate whether the biblical "Hittites" signified any or all of: 1) the original Hattites of Hatti; 2) their Indo-European conquerors (Nesili), who retained the name "Hatti" for Central Anatolia, and are today referred to as the "Hittites" (the subject of this article); or 3) a Canaanite group who may or may not have been related to either or both of the Anatolian groups, and who also may or may not be identical with the later Neo-Hittite (Luwian) polities.[12]

Other biblical scholars have argued that rather than being connected with Heth, son of Canaan, instead the Anatolian land of Hatti was mentioned in Old Testament literature and apocrypha as "Kittim" (Chittim), a people said to be named for a son of Javan.

[wuggle]

I suppose you can't prove the sky is blue either.

 

"The sky is actually colorless. The color you see is actually sunlight being diffracted by the gases in our atmosphere. On a clear (non-hazy, non-polluted) day, the sky appears blue. This is due to the high concentration of Nitrogen. However, in a smog clogged city, the sky can appear white to dirty brown. This is due to the high concentration of hydrocarbons. You can even get a red-orange sky if you're near a large fire or if a large volcano has just erupted."

 

(pinched from t'internet, so it must be true)

[M30USA]

That seems to be the M.O. of all you Bible-bashers. Any time someone presents a case you click your mouse on the first website that comes up in the search engine, copy and paste it, then say I'm being "hog roasted".

 

Isaac Newton, aside from being the greatest physicist who ever lived, was also a biblical scholar and historian. He wrote an entire volume about the chronology of nations. Not once did he mention a single discrepancy between biblical history and secular history. His conclusion about the Bible was that it originated from outside the mind of man. It predicted the reestablishment of Israel as a nation (it took 1900 years), it predicted the destruction of Tyre in detail, predicted over 100 details of Christs life (all provably written before 600 BC), and profoundly says that God suspends the Earth weightless in the heavens--something which was not understood until newton discovered gravity.

 

I would not recommend using the lazy approach of Internet searches, but rather multiple sources by credentialed authors.

 

In closing, realize that nobody ever believed or disbelieved the Bible due to facts. Humans are deceitful according to the Bible. Christ said that people cover up the truth because they fear their wickedness and evil motives coming into the light. So people do all they can to find reason not to believe. Bottom line is Christ is our only hope for being right with God and escaping judgement. Ignore him and you are by definition condemning yourself. God is patient and does not wish anyone to perish but wants everyone to be saved.

Edited June 3, 2012 by M30USA

[Gulf-Delta]

That seems to be the M.O. of all you Bible-bashers. Any time someone presents a case you click your mouse on the first website that comes up in the search engine, copy and paste it, then say I'm being "hog roasted".

 

Isaac Newton, aside from being the greatest physicist who ever lived, was also a biblical scholar and historian. He wrote an entire volume about the chronology of nations. Not once did he mention a single discrepancy between biblical history and secular history. His conclusion about the Bible was that it originated from outside the mind of man. It predicted the reestablishment of Israel as a nation (it took 1900 years), it predicted the destruction of Tyre in detail, predicted over 100 details of Christs life (all provably written before 600 BC), and profoundly says that God suspends the Earth weightless in the heavens--something which was not understood until newton discovered gravity.

 

I would not recommend using the lazy approach of Internet searches, but rather multiple sources by credentialed authors.

 

In closing, realize that nobody ever believed or disbelieved the Bible due to facts. Humans are deceitful according to the Bible. Christ said that people cover up the truth because they fear their wickedness and evil motives coming into the light. So people do all they can to find reason not to believe. Bottom line is Christ is our only hope for being right with God and escaping judgement. Ignore him and you are by definition condemning yourself. God is patient and does not wish anyone to perish but wants everyone to be saved.

 

Newton also exited pre-electricity and modern medicine. What he says doesn't exactly hold water in this matter.

 

If according to the bible, humans are deceitful, why believe it? It was written by humans?

[Ross MwcFan]

To the OP. Do you believe that you'll be attacked by a flying spaghetti monster tomorrow?

 

If you don't beleive this, why not?

[Ross MwcFan]

I don't know whether Jesus did exist. But as for walking on water and all that other stuff, I don't believe it for a second.

[M30USA]

To the OP. Do you believe that you'll be attacked by a flying spaghetti monster tomorrow?

 

If you don't beleive this, why not?

 

No evidence to support this, thats why. There is evidence, however, and plenty of it, to show that Jesus not only existed but that he physically resurrected after death. You owe it to yourself to investigate. Whether you are Christian or not, the single most important question in human history is: did the man Jesus of Nazareth rise from the dead?

[M30USA]

I don't know whether Jesus did exist. But as for walking on water and all that other stuff, I don't believe it for a second.

 

You don't believe it because your belief comes from man, and not from God. Were your belief from God, you would understand that if God can create the universe, walking on water is cake. God does not just do miracles for nothing. Jesus actually declined numerous requests to see a miracle. He only did miracles to show his deity and authority, and usually when a persons heart was ready to receive him. Jesus told a disciple: "Blessed are you...for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father above."

[TaraMaiden]

No evidence to support this, thats why. There is evidence, however, and plenty of it, to show that Jesus not only existed

and unfortunately, also plenty to prove he didn't....

 

but that he physically resurrected after death.

 

Interesting!

Let's see it. On the proviso that it doesn't entail quoting biblical passages, of course. they don't count.

 

You owe it to yourself to investigate.

I think you'll find he has. Which is why he's convinced of what he says.

 

Whether you are Christian or not, the single most important question in human history is: did the man Jesus of Nazareth rise from the dead?

Jesus wasn't from Nazareth. Nazareth didn't exist during his supposed lifetime.

 

So... no, he didn't.

[KathyM]

and unfortunately, also plenty to prove he didn't....

 

 

 

Interesting!

Let's see it. On the proviso that it doesn't entail quoting biblical passages, of course. they don't count.

 

 

I think you'll find he has. Which is why he's convinced of what he says.

 

 

Jesus wasn't from Nazareth. Nazareth didn't exist during his supposed lifetime.

 

So... no, he didn't.

 

That's not true, either. Nazareth did exist during Jesus' lifetime, but was destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans. But people don't have to take my word for it. They can do the research for themselves if they wish to.

[TaraMaiden]

No..... it - didn't.

 

Nazareth – The Town that Theology Built

 

The Myth Of Nazareth: Did the historical Jesus Exist? - Religion - Nairaland

 

I've also seen plenty of websites that insisted that it DID exist - but they were, without exception, written by christians quoting biblical sources for verification and as proof.

Sorry, but for obvious reasons, they don't really count, do they?

[Fugu]

God is a superstition.

 

I believe in a Creator, but God like the one in the Bible...pffff. Whatever.

[Ross MwcFan]

No evidence to support this, thats why. There is evidence, however, and plenty of it, to show that Jesus not only existed but that he physically resurrected after death. You owe it to yourself to investigate. Whether you are Christian or not, the single most important question in human history is: did the man Jesus of Nazareth rise from the dead?

 

I'm not interested in that sort of stuff, it all seems pretty boring and lame to me.

[Ross MwcFan]

You don't believe it because your belief comes from man, and not from God. Were your belief from God, you would understand that if God can create the universe, walking on water is cake. God does not just do miracles for nothing. Jesus actually declined numerous requests to see a miracle. He only did miracles to show his deity and authority, and usually when a persons heart was ready to receive him. Jesus told a disciple: "Blessed are you...for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father above."

 

My beliefs come from observing the world around me, and using common sense, reason, and evidence.

 

Anyway, what makes you believe in your religion and god? There are plenty of other religions and gods (which I don't believe are real) out there.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Ross MwcFan

[Fugu]

You don't believe it because your belief comes from man, and not from God. Were your belief from God, you would understand that if God can create the universe, walking on water is cake. God does not just do miracles for nothing. Jesus actually declined numerous requests to see a miracle. He only did miracles to show his deity and authority, and usually when a persons heart was ready to receive him. Jesus told a disciple: "Blessed are you...for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father above."

 

No, he doesn't believe in God, because the God that you describe is a creation of the human imagination. It's fiction. You're regurgitating religious propaganda that has been bounced around for centuries, all of which comes from stories and tales that date back to an era when humans were still struggling to develop written language itself.

 

The Son of God never spoke to anyone. And even if he did, humans recorded it and wrote about it decades later. If witnesses can't even agree on who stole someone's purse, then what makes you think that ordinary humans are going to hear the 'voice of God' ringing in their ears years later? It's nonsense.

[BetheButterfly]

To the OP. Do you believe that you'll be attacked by a flying spaghetti monster tomorrow?

 

If you don't beleive this, why not?

 

Hello Ross,

 

Nope. The reason I don't believe this is I don't see evidence that this is prophesied in the Tanakh.

[BetheButterfly]

it is really difficult to prove or disprove something that doesnt exist. the only way to prove jesus was the son of god is to bring up the bible, a book written thousands of years ago by a bunch of superstitious men. the only way to disprove it is to point out logic. the same thoughts that lead me to discover that santa claus wasnt real when i was a child also brought me to the same conclusion about jesus.

 

Do you believe Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, King David, and other important figures in Jewish history to be real, or to be Santa Claus like make-believe characters?

even if i did believe in the christian god and his jesus, i wouldnt worship them. after reading a few bibles passages talking about stoning people to death for fornicating, killing gay people, and paying a father for raping his daughter, i lost all respect for christians.

Christians do not tend to follow all the stipulations God gave to the children of Israel through Moses. Moses was the leader of the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) a long time before Jesus. The laws God gave to them were to set them apart from other nations. Nowadays, most Jewish people (the children of Israel) who believe in God do not stone people to death for fornicating, kill gay people, pay fathers for their daughters being raped, and so on. Jesus, a Jewish man, did not stone people to death, but preached forgiveness and love. Christians are to follow what Jesus says. Christians = follower of the Christ. For both Jewish people and Gentiles who believe Jesus is the Messiah = Christ = Anointed One, it is important to obey what he said, not what Moses said centuries before Jesus.

[NoIDidn't]

So is it just myth that Jesus is in Hell in a boiling pot of excrement?

 

Why would someone take the time to write something like that for another religious book if the person didn't exist?

 

(Didn't read the entire thread, don't know if this was covered or not)

[BetheButterfly]

No..... it - didn't.

 

Nazareth – The Town that Theology Built

 

The Myth Of Nazareth: Did the historical Jesus Exist? - Religion - Nairaland

 

I've also seen plenty of websites that insisted that it DID exist - but they were, without exception, written by christians quoting biblical sources for verification and as proof.

Sorry, but for obvious reasons, they don't really count, do they?

 

It is only natural that people who are interested in the history of their beliefs study their beliefs, and it is only natural that people who are trying to attack another belief discredit them, sad to say.

 

However, one does not need to look to only Christian sources in order to study Nazareth, because Nazareth merely connotes "the Branch... part of a tree", which is in direct correlation to a Messianic prophecy in Isaiah 11. Cities and towns come and go. Right now in Israel, there is a city called Nazareth, and it is possible that long time ago, in Galilee, there was a little village Nazareth too for a short time. Just like little villages can form and fade in the USA, so it was the case in the past. However, in the past, "insignificant" little villages were not considered as worthy of being recorded, unlike nowadays.

 

Jesus' ancestors were from the line of David. After the Babylonian conquest of Israel, when they were allowed to return by King Cyrus, many of the descendants of King David settled in Galilee.

 

So, when attacking/criticizing another belief, it is often important to stop and take into consideration that meanings of the words are important, as well as studying the foundation and history of those beliefs. It is also important to understand that just as there were species of animals who became extinct before anyone recorded them while they were still alive, so there have been small villages that have been skipped in written history. For example, I am sure there were Native American villages that have never been recorded in history. Does that mean they did not exist? No. It means the people writing the history books did not think to document them.

 

However, the Jewish believers in Jesus did document the little village of Nazareth, and the group of people identified as "Nazarenes" get their name from this reference to the branch... part of tree, that this means in Hebrew, because Jesus is believed to be "the Branch" that Isaiah 11 talks about, by different followers.

Edited June 27, 2012 by BetheButterfly

[quickjoe]

Bethe, it's a bit of a pointless ad hominem to complain about somebody's motives (in this case, that Tara is merely trying to attack your beliefs) especially given that:

 

a) You don't know what her motives are.

b) They're irrelevant anyway.

c) The main focus should be on her actual argument (that Nazareth didn't exist) and idle conjecture on her reasons for bringing it up.

 

As long as we're all being civil adults here, we should take it for granted that people can raise what points they like without having their motives questioned, or, worse, have them dismissed on that basis alone.

[BetheButterfly]

Bethe, it's a bit of a pointless ad hominem to complain about somebody's motives (in this case, that Tara is merely trying to attack your beliefs) especially given that:

 

a) You don't know what her motives are.

b) They're irrelevant anyway.

c) The main focus should be on her actual argument (that Nazareth didn't exist) and idle conjecture on her reasons for bringing it up.

 

As long as we're all being civil adults here, we should take it for granted that people can raise what points they like without having their motives questioned, or, worse, have them dismissed on that basis alone.

 

It is true that only the person himself/herself knows what one's motives are, although others do tend to come to conclusions based on different factors.

 

Regardless, the proof that Nazareth existing during Jesus' time is indeed mainly recorded by Jewish people and Gentiles who followed Jesus, not those who did not care about Jesus.

 

Just because other people, however, did not bother to record a little village in Galilee, that does not mean that it did not in fact exist. Again, there have been many little villages of Native Americans in the USA before being tragically destroyed. Many of these villages' names have not been recorded. Although more than likely the survivors (if any survivors) of those villages recorded it, most American history books written by descendants of European colonialists could care less about the Native American villages destroyed.

 

The nation of Israel in which Jesus lived was destroyed by the Romans not terribly long after Jesus' time. However, those who cared about Jesus and his ministry, kept the memory of Jesus alive, including the name of the place in Galilee that he was identified with, which was the basis for the name "Nazarenes". I am curious if you have ever studied the group of people called the Nazarenes?

 

By the way, have you ever gone to the modern-day city of Nazareth in Israel? I personally would love to go someday.

Edited June 27, 2012 by BetheButterfly

[M30USA]

Interesting fact:

 

When Mount Vesuvius erupted and destroyed Pompeii in 79 AD, the exact legion of Titus which destroyed the Jewish Temple several years prior was vacationing there in that hedonistic, corrupt city. Coincidence?