Lack of Affection...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

So interesting, and sad too.

 

Funny that he can't understand that it goes so beyond sex..... Sex just brought clarity to other issues in his persona.

[findingnemo]

TM, I'm good. Not feeling bad at all. Stayed in all day reading. Alternate a book and the net. Now I'm starving, will go cook.

 

Yes, this thread has really helped me. See that's why I like LS.

 

TDP, Joe needs serious IC but I won't be there to insist. I doubt he'll do it unless this keeps happening to him.

[giotto]

 

Joe needs serious IC but I won't be there to insist. I doubt he'll do it unless this keeps happening to him.

 

Good luck, Nemo... I think you probably took the right decision... I know very well what it means living with a person who needs IC desperately, but refuses to go and prefers to sweep everything under carpet, even if the relationship suffers terribly.

[2sunny]

So interesting, and sad too.

 

Funny that he can't understand that it goes so beyond sex..... Sex just brought clarity to other issues in his persona.

 

TM, I'm good. Not feeling bad at all. Stayed in all day reading. Alternate a book and the net. Now I'm starving, will go cook.

 

Yes, this thread has really helped me. See that's why I like LS.

 

TDP, Joe needs serious IC but I won't be there to insist. I doubt he'll do it unless this keeps happening to him.

 

Good for you Nemo!

 

A good book that may be helpful is by don Miguel Ruiz...the voice of knowledge.

 

And of course one of his earlier books Joe could learn from too - the four agreements.

 

Joe lied! He just wasn't honest - in MANY forms. There's no way to make what he did under that umbrella right mainly because he's uses several different styles of lying. So... It indicates it's his operating method that works for him! (or so he thinks).

 

Lies don't build intimacy - it builds barriers to growth - like a roadblock in any relationship.

[Athena]

Now I wonder...first I marry a psycho narcissist, then I date Joe.

The guy doesn't have 'issues'.

 

The guy has a problem.

It is a problem, and what's more it's HIS problem!

And actually, i'm not talking about the sex drive.

I'm talking about precisely what jwi71 is talking about.

He's in denial, and projecting everything as far away from himself as he can.

 

so let's call a spade, a ruddy shovel - both here - and everywhere else!

If a person has a problem, they need to "own it".

And if it's a problem - let's call it a bloody problem!

I suspect Joe IS a narcissist! Narcissists CANNOT ADMIT TO ANY FLAWS, therefore, they cannot admit they have a 'problem'. The problem must always be YOURS.

 

It is imperative to a Narcissist that you do not see any flaws in him, that all you see is him being perfect.

This Joe appears to be 'perfect' to you (in your own words) and is very religious too (I'm wondering if it's a facade) and yet you are in trouble the minute you even begin to hint he has < a problem>.... that he may *not* be perfect....

 

My suspicion is that you dated another version of your husband...

 

Yeah, maybe Joe is an upgrade in that he is not a pscho, but I think he definitely could fit on the narcissistic spectrum quite well.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Athena

[findingnemo]

Thanks, Giotto.

 

2sunny, I'll get that book and add it to my pile. I love reading. Thanks.

 

Athena, Joe a narcissist? I don't know. He has issues for sure. He has learnt to cope with his problem by being manipulative but I can assure you he's no narcissist. Not the kind my H is anyway. If he is, then "I" have a problem... What is attracting me to them? And why are they attracted to me? Its not like I'm a walk over. It's not from my parents because they are quite possibly the kindest, fairest, most honest people I know. Nope. I should google how to spot a narcissist the first time you meet them.

[OpenBook]

Athena, Joe a narcissist? I don't know. He has issues for sure. He has learnt to cope with his problem by being manipulative but I can assure you he's no narcissist. Not the kind my H is anyway.

 

You're married?

[TaraMaiden]

Only just. Her divorce is through any minute....

[mem11363]

Nemo,

You are spot on. He is not a narcissist. You have described this as the only area in which his behavior is bad and I believe that.

 

And he isn't doing this to be cruel, he is attempting to work around what for him is a severe, insolvable issue.

 

Judging from your reactions which have shown a high degree of maturity, restraint and practicality (the latter is often absent when people love, which creates great vulnerability), you will find a compatible partner sooner rather than later.

 

The ONLY reason you didn't catch this is that you are sufficiently attractive to have never encountered anything remotely like this situation.

 

Joe falls into that fairly rare subset of males who work very hard to pretend desire they don't feel. This was simply bad luck for you. Not only are you accustomed to being desired, being honest yourself it never occurred to you that man would "feign" desire. Having experienced this once, you will now be able to spot it almost immediately if it happens again - which likely won't happen anyway.

 

As an aside, take his love for the sincere compliment (overall) that it is. Ncleay he had lots of choices being a desirable male. And he could certainly find a low desire woman if he tried a bit. He loved you enough to try and work around his achille's heel.

 

My last observation for now has to do with something my wife and I have discussed now and then over the years. I refer to it as the emotional "circuit breaker" and believe it to be very valuable in core relationships. It refers to the ability to detach fairly quickly from someone who is interacting with you in a toxic manner. I have it, my wife has it, and you clearly have it.

 

The lack of that ability often results in people staying with a toxic (for them) partner for years, or decades, frantically and futilely attempting to change their partner.

 

Thanks, Giotto.

 

2sunny, I'll get that book and add it to my pile. I love reading. Thanks.

 

Athena, Joe a narcissist? I don't know. He has issues for sure. He has learnt to cope with his problem by being manipulative but I can assure you he's no narcissist. Not the kind my H is anyway. If he is, then "I" have a problem... What is attracting me to them? And why are they attracted to me? Its not like I'm a walk over. It's not from my parents because they are quite possibly the kindest, fairest, most honest people I know. Nope. I should google how to spot a narcissist the first time you meet them.

[The Blue Knight]

Most men, need more sex when they are stressed out. I think the lack of sex and affection may be telling you something else.

 

I would agree with SAF. Sexual activity relieves stress in a man's life. Certain life stresses I can understand where sex isn't sought out. But most stress in a man's life makes him desire sex more often I believe. What adds to the stress in a mans life is a lack of affection and sex from the woman he's bonded too.

[The Blue Knight]

Thanks, Giotto.

 

2sunny, I'll get that book and add it to my pile. I love reading. Thanks.

 

Athena, Joe a narcissist? I don't know. He has issues for sure. He has learnt to cope with his problem by being manipulative but I can assure you he's no narcissist. Not the kind my H is anyway. If he is, then "I" have a problem... What is attracting me to them? And why are they attracted to me? Its not like I'm a walk over. It's not from my parents because they are quite possibly the kindest, fairest, most honest people I know. Nope. I should google how to spot a narcissist the first time you meet them.

I'm not thinking Joe is narcissistic Nemo. He strikes me as just odd in a number of ways. Mem hit on a few of them in his post. Guys who fake trying to feel like "normal" guys but they aren't. Personally, intimacy in a relationship is far too important to continue on with the relationship I believe. It's one of the BIG 3 marriage busters and you can't afford to hook into a guy who is going to leave you very unhappy and unsatisfied in the nocturnal activity department.

[findingnemo]

Openbook, I am VERY M...as in legally but I've been separated for 3 years in a few weeks!! In my country, you have to prove a 3 year separation before a Decree Nisi is granted. My in-laws have tried to tell me not to file. That I should give their son another chance. Yeah right!!! How is it possible for them to think like that given what they know he did to me? Crazy, crazy people.

 

Mem, thank you for that post. It makes me feel so much better. In terms of looks, I'm not doing badly. Not to be arrogant or anything...I'm not Miss Universe but I'm fit, slim, proportional, dress well, etc. My mother (who is gorgeous) always told me that while some are bestowed with extraordinary beauty, the ones that win are those with brains. she is a definite winner - genetic scientist!!

 

It's true that I've never met a man that I liked who didn't want to get into my pants. So this was eye-opening for me. I like what you said about the "emotional circuit breaker". I wonder if it comes with experience. I never had it before. It took a psycho H to make me develop one. For me I'd describe it was learning to love myself. Once you love yourself, you kind of develop tolerance limits which help you assess what's good and what's not. Allow me to borrow your term though. It is concise and clear.

 

TBK, I agree with you about stress and sex. While my friends go get massages, I like to have sex when stressed. It's comforting, it relaxes me and IME, thats what all the men (not hundreds:)) I've been with were like.

[Phateless]

Let me try to answer the question of his being gay... I have no idea. I always know where he is. He picks up the phone almost always and if not calls me right back. I see no signs of him having a gay partner in secret. But if his preference is that and he's still in denial, it can account for the loving me, while not loving me thing.

 

My country is predominantly Christian. Protestants make up 60% of the population. The whole "I'm Catholic" is a front. There are so many things he does that are not in line with being a strict Catholic.

 

He decided to appeal to me the other day. He came to my house unannounced (this was normal before) and took me to lunch. Said he needed to explain things and begged me to give him the chance to. At first I said no and he said that I owed him an hour at least...that we had something that needs to end properly if its ending. We went to lunch and I maintained my position. He said he would change (again) and that he now knows this is a big issue for me. He said I can't leave him because of sex. That this isn't a good enough reason and shows that I see him as a sex object. He basically decided to politely guilt trip me. I just watched him in amazement. It was like he'd practiced what to say to me. He refused to believe me when I told him it was over and that I will not be doing any more lunches, etc. I asked him to stop calling and coming to my house. I made it very clear that I'm moving on.

 

So that's that. I think he really got it this time. Oh I forgot... He bought me one of those luxury watches I've been dying for for ages. I refused to accept it. I think he thought giving it to me would somehow sort out our issues.

Slow clapping...

[TaraMaiden]

Slow clapping...

 

No, I don't know what this means either......

[Phateless]

No, I don't know what this means either......

 

It means bravo, I'm proud of you, way to go, etc.