Best friends for about 3 years (which i explain), can we be more? How do i find out?

[FsuBA34]

Here's my dilemma. My best friend Lindsay and I met in college, at Florida State Unversity, through another girl who she was friends with and that I had hooked up (not sex, I'm a virgin, but i'll get into that later) with. The interesting part is that we both happened to be originally from the same area, Lake Mary. We found out we lived like 10 minutes from each other. There was something intriguing about her to me, from the day I met her. We clicked really well. The three of us became like a group. Only a few months after we had met, the girl who introduced us (i'm keeping her name out of this) got insanely jealous at a party once. I had called Lindsay to invite her to the party I was at, and left her message. In the background I could hear the girl saying "what the...? that's my friend, what does he think he's doing?" I got really upset and we got into a big fight.

 

So, the months went along and Lindsay and I got to know each other. We were both 19 (at the time, now 22), we were both pisces, we were both from Lake Mary, we both liked some of the same music. She had a boyfriend of about 2 years back at home so i figured you know, nothing could happen. But as the girl that introduced us could tell was happening, we became really good friends. I started tutoring Lindsay for math the next semester, and started to see Lindsay a lot. The more I saw of her, the more interesting she became to me. Eventually Lindsay had brought the girl who introduced us back, and got me to forgive her for her actions at that party. I figured out that the friction between me and the girl who inrdouced us was because she wanted a relationship from me and I didn't. The other weird thing was, that when this girl, Lindsay, and I all hung out together, Lindsay and I bickered a lot, over tiny things. But it never came of anything, she compared it to being brother and sister (which neither of us know anything about, as we are both only children).

 

Before summertime came around, and I had known Lindsay for about the whole school year (September-April) I got a feeling she was being cheated on, and tried to tell her, but she didn't believe me (it didn't matter, as you'll soon see). That summer, when we both went back to Lake Mary, I got to hang out with her, just me and her. We never bickered like we did around the other girl, we just always had fun, no matter what we did. A few times I even hung out with her and her boyfriend, just because I liked being around her so much.

 

When the next school year began (our junior year), I helped her move in to her apartment. Something happened that day, that still sticks out in my mind. I forget what I had done, but in an elevator, Lindsay's mom said to me in front of Lindsay (of course in a joking matter) "you have permission to marry my daughter." It was embarassing and funny, but I still remember it. As the year progressed, Lindsay helped me become a lot less shy of a person at school (i had never really been a shy person until i went to FSU by myself, without anyone I knew.) and make friends. I did make a number of friends, who became her friends as well.

 

Later that year, she had an incident with her boyfriend at school when we had all gone out to the club together. I still remember it clear as day. I left the club, with her, and one of my roommates at the time, and we all got into my car and drove around. I took her hand and helped her figure out she was better than him, he wasn't worth it, etc. etc. That night we saw the kid agian and they tried talking to each other but it didn't work, at one point he even stepped to me, trying to fight me. I was ready to defend her, but i didn't have to, I had my roommate there who jumped in, but nothing happen. After that weekend, Lindsay and her boyfriend of 3 years at that point, broke up. I helped her through the break up, talking to her all the time, doing what I could.

 

As the year progressed after that she continued to have an influence on me. She (along with the girl that introduced us) got me to change clothing styles, which took me a while to give into. She gave me advice on a girl I was pursuing (which I eventually found out already was after somebody else). The three of us hung out a lot again, along with the new friends I had made. By the time spring came around, neither of us had valentines, so we became each other's valentines. I took both girls out for valentine's day, Lindsay made me a huge card, the other girl gave me some pre-made card. For my birthday (which is all of 6 days later) the two of them took me out to dinner, bought me drinks, etc. However, it was Lindsay that spent most of that time with me that weekend, the other girl went out of town. Lindsay and I went to various things together (parties, skating rink, club, concert, etc.) along with some other friends that weekend. I again started to see signs of a possible relationship. I even tried skating with her during a couple skate, but she pulled away when i tried to grab her hand and said "ew no brother/sister!" I thought whatever, she doesn't even know what she's talking about.

 

Spring break came around, and a major incident was the breaking point between me and the girl that had introduced lindsay to me. Unfortunately, this incident happened to occur on the night of Lindsay's 21st birthday. For a while, despite having the same class together, even Lindsay and I didn't talk. I assumed our friendship was probably over, and gave up. I started dating a girl (Erin) I had met in one of my other current classes and been friends with since the beginning of the spring. It turns out at that very same time, Lindsay started dating somebody new as well, which i thought was interesting. Eventually, Lindsay came to me, we talked it over, and became friends again. The other girl and I though, were through. I had had enough. The other girl had apparently nudged Lindsay to talk to me again, because she thought we'd eventually get married. As the year ended, i decided to stay in tallahasse for the summer to be with Erin. When I told Lindsay this, she was broken. She asked if it was because of Erin, which I said no to at first, but admitted to eventually.

 

Over the summer, Erin broke up with me. It hadn't been a long relationship (only a month or so) but I thought it really had potential. Unfortunately Erin had to graduate that summer. Anyway, Lindsay helped me through that break up, I came home a few weekends, we hung out just like the previous summer, we talked all the time, etc. We found out we were going to live in the same dorm, me one floor below her.

 

A crazy thing happened too, before the year even started. Lindsay walked in on me making out with another girl, not two days after we had moved in for our senior year. She according to my roommate Kyle "looked like a ghost" when she left my room that night. He even asked me the next day if she was interested in me. I had told him, no we were just friends. Lindsay asked me about it later, and I told her it was a random girl, but she continued to pry and I admitted that it was a girl we both knew had liked me. I was never ever sure why she had to know.

 

When our senior year began, things were different. We sat and talked at the beginninng of the year, and realized we wouldn't see as much of each other because Lindsay had to spend time with the other girl, which i didn't want to be around. So things started to change, little by little. That summer I had become really good friends with two guys who i'm still friends with to this day. So i hung out with them more, along with some other people, and her less. She would start get to jealous, talking to me on the phone a few times, crying, thinking she wasn't part of tings any more, despite that we had both joined AMA (American Marketing Association), which she only joined because I did, she wasn't even a marketing major.

 

I became closer to a girl who I nearly hooked up with the year before, oddly enough also named Lindsey. I eventually gave her the nickname "LL" because she was the "little lindsey" of the two. So jealousy became an issue a lot of times, and we got into the occasional argument. I would get jealous of her, she'd get jealous of me, and vice versa. Lindsay got suspicious (she asked me) that something was going on between me and LL, but nothing ever did.

 

During christmas break is when I really saw signs of evolvement. We had been through a lot together even at that point, and survived and it made us closer than ever. I tried to take her to the melting pot that break, but we ended up at another nice restaurant. We spent about $60 on each other for christmas gifts, way more than either of us spent on anyone else. Even my roommate at the time Kyle had thought it souned like she was "setting her self up a boyfriend". At that point i wasn't sure. We had a talk one time during that break, about marriage. We even got to the point of "the difference between being best friends and being together is sex." I had said something about people shouldn't try to form relationships based on just sex. I wondered if my virginity was the only reason we weren't together. Earlier in the semester she had urged me to just have sex, but i was still reluctant (I always have been, I've wavered between waiting till marriage and not, because i've been scared of STD's, and I had an incident with an aunt when i was 12, which i told Lindsay about).

 

Second semester was just like the first semester, just more extreme, higher highs and lower lows. I think the pressure of graduation had a lot to do with it, but still. We constantly got into arguments, she wouldn't cooperate with me a lot of times because she was jealous. My roommate Kyle even said to her in front of me a few times, "you two need to just hook up and get it over with". Lindsay wanted me to take her out for valentine's day again, but i didn't just want a fake-date with her, so i threw a birthday party for LL (who's birthday was that day). Lindsay never came. However, this didn't stop her from giving me one of the best birthday's i ever had. She and LL took me out to dinner, and ended throwing me a suprise birthday party, and bought me like 3 bottles of alcohol for my birthday. It was both the most expensive gift (the dinner and the alcohol) and the best gift (the party) I had ever recieved. However the fights continued as her actions continued to annoy me. We spent most of the next few weeks apart. I even told LL, if I had to pick a song for her it would be "I hate everything about you, why do I love you?" by three days grace.

 

We eventually got past it again, she had called and said "I miss you", which was the way she ended most of our arguments that semester. I took her out to dinner for her birthday to melting pot, bought her a bunch of alcohol as a birthday present, and even tried to throw her and my friend Chad a birthday party, which got broken up by the cops before we even got to it. She really appreciated it she said.

 

I could tell she was starting to get closer to me, by certain intimate type actions she never took before. One night at a club she grabbed me to tango dance with me, and we had never danced together before. We started to share drinks together from the same straw, which she had also previously refused to do. Also she grabbed me by the hand (which before she wouldn't do) and dragged me through a crowd in a club once. Another time she told me a story that she said her friend had told her. Lindsay said that her friend said to her "you're in love with your friend Billy, aren't you?" Lindsay said her response was "he's a good looking good guy, but we're just friends." I didn't know what to think of that, so i kind of shrugged it off when she told me.

 

Unforunately, the arguments continued. One time we were on the phone for an hour and a half, 45 minutes of which we spent yelling at each other, but finally the other 45 we talked it out. Her actions had frustarted me, she was playing mind games with me, despite her insistence that we didn't have "a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship once". I wondered "why are you acting like it?".

 

Finally during Lindsay and I's last fight before graduation, LL told me "If you and Lindsay got married it would never work. I told her the same thing." I said "yeah, she's got some growing up to do." LL said "so do you." There was even a party towards the end of the year that Lindsay was at, that i refused to go to until she left. I denied it to Lindsay on the phone, but i felt that way. She had frustrated me to no end. We finally made up again, after I insisted in front of LL that Lindsay miss the final two big parties of the year. Apparently I was so drunk coming back from one of those parties that I kept playing the song I said I picked for Lindsay (the three days grace song). I knew I cared about her so we made up. I missed taking grad pictures with her and LL and the girl who had introduced us, so I said we should take pictures. Our friend Chad took pictures of us and both of our families all together.

 

That night, she graduated; I was due to graduate the next morning. After her graduation I tried to get her to come out, but she was too tired, despite Chad and my insistence. She said she’d seen everybody she wanted to see. She even said to me in front of Chad, “I’ll see you the rest of my life”. Chad was shocked. I said “yeah we signed the pre-nup today.” The jokes about Lindsay and I being married continued the rest of the night. When I said goodbye to LL, she said “I know you and Lindsay are going to get married, and I better be a part of it.” I thought “hmm interesting change of tune.” LL had even predicted I’d be the first one to get married.

 

Since we’ve been home, things have progressed. I think she’s dating someone right now, but I don’t know, she’s stopped talking to me about other guys. One time we went out to dinner together, and the waitress was obviously flirting with me in front of her. Instead of insisting I go after it, she said “that’s bold of her, how does she know I’m not your girlfriend?” But as a gag Lindsay wrote me phone number on the receipt. That night I left for a trip to Miami, and she called me “just to say hi.” She had never given that as a reason for calling before. I liked it. One time when we went to the movies together, I even held out my hand (just like at the rink back in the day) to help her get down a big step, and she took it. I took a trip to Tallahassee a few weeks ago, with LL and Chad and admitted to LL that I liked Lindsay. LL said “finally”. I admitted to myself I was falling for her.

 

Last weekend was the big step. She was in Chicago, and called me on Wednesday saying she had no man and was upset. She called me Thursday from Chicago at the Cubs game to say hi. When she called me Saturday night (still in Chicago) she stunned me. She said “I’m considering moving to Chicago.” I said, “Great, it’s a nice place”. She said “yeah, it’d be with you. I’ve been talking to my parents about it.” I was stunned. I started to say something to her on the phone about taking it to the next level, but didn’t. I just got off the phone I was so surprised.

 

I saw her this past Tuesday, and took her out to dinner, and surprised her with a “welcome home gift”, which was a really incredible picture of the two of us, taken by my godfather (who I had told that I thought Lindsay I had a chance to be together, and he said, the camera doesn’t lie, you two looked so comfortable together). I framed it and got it copied, giving her one, and kept one. I told her so. She was so surprised. She loved the whole night. She told me I looked really good in the picture. She said it was going up immediately, and it would be tough to keep from her parents.

 

Well now that I’ve spent two hours typing this out I realize how strong my feelings are for her. I also get the vibe that she’s got them for me. One of our make-up talks included me saying “we’ve been through so much together; it’d take a lot for me to give up on you”. She agreed saying that’s why we could live together. So what do I do? I’ve been trying to build the relationship steadily, and I think we’ve got a really strong bond. She’s going with me and my parents to our beach condo this weekend, and I’m considering saying something to her there. But what do I say? Do you all think we have the potential to become a couple? What should I do? Hope you enjoyed what turned into a long story. Looking forward to responses.

[clia]

Holy crap that was a long story.

 

So what do I do?

 

Friends to relationship can work. I'm going through the same thing right now! But you must both think through it before you take the plunge. What happens if the relationship doesn't work? Can you go back to being friends? What if one of you does the "dumping"? How will the other react? Etc... There's a lot to consider, but if it works, it can really, really work!

 

I’ve been trying to build the relationship steadily, and I think we’ve got a really strong bond.

 

I agree. And I think she really likes you--however, she may have some misgivings about possibly losing your friendship, hence some of her weird behavior.

 

She’s going with me and my parents to our beach condo this weekend, and I’m considering saying something to her there. But what do I say?

 

I think you should casually ask her how she feels about dating you and see how she responds. Don't make it into a big deal--just tell her you think there is potential for more.

 

Do you all think we have the potential to become a couple?

 

Yes, I do! (And I don't often say that...)

[FsuBA34]

well, there's a reason for a lot of things (one of our favorite cliches is "everything happens for a reason"). First of all, the reason I made my story so long is that I wanted to give all the background information I could think of in our 3 years. There's plenty of stuff I never mentioned, like she's told me she needs a guy like me, she and her friend flashed me at a party once, she's complimented me on how i look a number of times, etc.

 

But i think the really critical part to my incredibly long story is the fights we've been through. I've been through more fights with her than I have with probably every other girlfriend combined, and we've survived. That alone tells me that a relationship between us would work, because we've said it would take a lot to seperate us (if she got over me ruining her 21st birthday, and I got over a lot of her jealousy issues for example).

 

Recently we went to a kitchen expo together, and everyone naturally thought we were married. I never said to anyone we were just friends, i just said i wasn't quite ready for it. I made a comment to her afterwards and said "man all those people wanted us to throw down our money, and be married" and she said "yeah, shack up and become a couple". Not too soon after came this talk about moving in together. Just a couple days ago she told me to use my free time (because at the moment I have a job and she doesn't) to look up housing prices and told me the types of places she wants to live in, this a few days after she told me of her plans for us to move to Chicago (which she made the excuse that she was really drunk when she said that, but that just makes me believe that's the real truth, because alcohol makes you say things you wouldn't have the guys to say otherwise).

 

So my thinking has been, wait till the right time, something will happen. But if she wants to be moving in together in maybe as little as 3 months, shouldn't I be saying something before that happens? I want to, I think I'm just scared to hear something I wouldn't want to hear. Additionally, when is the right time? I mean what else is left for us to go through before that next step? I went out with this other girl last night, and all I could think about the whole time was Lindsay. I feel like I'm just wasting my time in the dating world. I know it's a long story, and I appreciate whoever's read it, and would love more advice. thanks.

[shooting_star22]

Wow... long story... I got my reading in for the night.

 

But back to your problem. I was in a similar situation as you. I was really good friends with this guy for about three years. We had been through some really weird times and he helped me through some tough ones. I had always had a little crush on him, and he knew it. But it never went anywhere. After awhile, I got over him and we were as close as ever. Then one day, out of the blue, he asked me out. Basically, he just said "I think we'd make a pretty good couple. We should try it out." We ended going out for about 7 months. It was an awesome relationship. Unfortunatley, I had to break up with him a little while ago for other reasons that I won't get into. It was a bit awkward at first, but we've been able to go back to being friends. I know we'll get through this and it'll all go back to normal.

 

I think you and this girl could go somewhere also. I think it's a good idea to start out as friends. It's a good base for a relationship. If you're as close as you think, then if you were to break up, I think after a little time, you'd be able to go back to being friends. I agree with what that one person said too. Just be casual and ask her what she thinks about the two of you dating. Go from there. Hope this was helpful! Good luck!

[ockey53]

hey, this is pretty amazing. This story sounds just like mine. Lindsay seems to really like you. DEFINITELY GO WITH HER!!! Be that special someone to her. You deserve it (especially after all the stuff you've done for her) and she does too.

 

Check out my post (http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t39666/) and maybe you can some pointers from there too. Please leave a post on my thread also. I'd like to hear what you have to say about my "girl."

[Nameless]

omg.... just tell her how u feel already. U dont even have to be scared. She'll definately say yes (i think) and the only change in ur relationship wud probably just be the intamacy.

[FsuBA34]

Update! For those of you who read my hellaciously long story originally, I appreciate it. If anyone new has read it now, I definitely appreciate it. Please share your thoughts, I need impartial advice on this (most of my friends know both me and Lindsay, so it's hard to get totally impartial advice from them, but they do seem to say the same thing.)

 

So about two months ago, we did the beach condo thing. There she told me she was into this guy, but something was keeping her from making it serous with him (she said he did stupid things and lacked common sense, or something like that, not even really sure.) Also, she wasn't ready for a relationship. She also tried to tell me i seemed lke a brother to her still

 

Like a week later, Lindsay calls me saying "blah blah this, I want you to meet this guy that." Seeing as my feelings were certainly pretty strong at this point, I finally just stopped. I told her despite how much I enjoyed it, i couldn't continue to treat her like a girlfriend and find one myself. I brought up an example of a girl who stopped talking to me, and ad-libed that she stopped talking to me because I picked Lindsay to go to the beach with me over her and that it seemed like i kept Lindsay at a higher priority. The latter was true, the former wasn't. I was trying to show Lindsay the opportunities I was willingly throwing away for her, but she didn't get it that way (more in a second). (Later, LL told me i should've said "I can't continue to treat you like my girlfriend, unless you ARE my girlfriend." I agree, I botched the explanation.) I realized when she told me "I'll see you for the rest of my life," it seemed like she thought I'd always be there, and that she could just do whatever she wanted, knowing I'd wait on her. I didn't want her to think that anymore, plus I wanted to take that reliance of "I don't want to screw things up the way they are," so I made a decision. I told her on the phone, I had made the decision to "discontinue" (another botched explanation) our friendship. I said it wasn't neccessarily a permanent thing.

 

The only two things Lindsay said in this call were "was this your girlfriend?" (talking about the girl i brought up as an example) and, while crying, said "I respect your decision." and then hung up. That day I guaranteed that wasn't the last time I would talk to Lindsay. It turned out I was right.

 

Time passed, I started to miss her (found out like a week later she changed her cell phone number from a tallahassee number to an orlando number, something she had said previously hadn't even been a priority. that kind of bothered me at the time, but it showed how much I affected her, which i was ok with), had to explain the story of what happened to like 30 people, and everytime I said the story I realized my points were valid but my explanation was faulty. LL asked me what life was like after i made the decision, asked if it was better. I just said it was "different". I didn't really want to say what it had been, which is just bad. I've had a hard two months, but I thought they'd be worth it, and it looks like they will be.

 

About two weeks ago, here in Florida Hurricane Charley hit, and went right over Orlando, where both Lindsay and I live. The day after, when we got power back, i took it on my own to drop Lindsay an email, saying "i hope you and you're family made it through alright". I never said to write me back, to call me, or anything. I just ended it with "hope everything's well". I had a feeling I might see her the next day, because Chad had come back and wanted to go somewhere the next day that she usually always went to. So I wanted to pre-empt that, since the only other time I had seen her since "discontinuing" our friendship was a random club, which we passed each other and didn't speak, which i could tell was out of nerves. Turns out I didn't end up seeing her the next night, but I opened things back up with her. Two days later she wrote me back, echoing my sentiment about the hurricane, and put this at the end.

 

"Glad to hear everythings good by you, tell your family I said hello. oh by the way...I got a new cell number (which i've taken out for privacy's sake) take care...ttyl"

 

So she dropped me her new cell number. At this point, I figured it was time to tell her how i felt, and a couple of my friends who I told (who don't talk to Lindsay, because i didn't want her to find out what i had planned) agreed. I was going to tell her I loved her.

 

This past Monday, I bought some roses, was ready to call her and have her come meet me at a lake by our houses, and suprise her and tell her how I felt. Well, she didn't answer. I left a very awkward message saying something like "well i wanted to chat with ya, but i guess i'll have to wait, that's cool" (it was jokingly, i know she could tell, it was also odd because my message reeked of the nervous insecurity that she has). I again tried to not mention calling me back, but later wondered why, when i had already made her call me back on her own free will once before.

 

Wednesday she wrote me another email. Highlights (it's most of the e-mail, just broken down better):

"I don't want you to think Im ignoring you or anything, because it's definitely not like that. I just feel a little hesitant because i dont know how I really feel about the whole situation."

"I just have a hard time understanding how you can just stop being friends with someone, especially over what some other girl said."

"I'm not mad at you, and after we talked that one night I was really upset for a while, but oddly enough , as mad as I was with you during that time, I never once felt any bad feelings toward you. I wanted the best for you, and as much as it sucked to walk away from our friendship, I wanted to let you do what you felt you needed at the time. "

"Im just scared to become friends with you again because I dont want to put myself in a situation again to get hurt. You really hurt me."

"I'd just like to know what has changed? Why is it that you'd like to talk again? I just want to make sure that before I put myself and my friendship out there again that you wont walk away."

"If we become friends again (which I would love b/c I have missed you) I need to know that this is it. No more walking away from one another. Anyway... I just wanted to write and get that off my chest...ttyl"

 

Doesn't this sound like a girl responding to someone who broke up with her and wants her back and not "just" a friend? "I never once felt any bad feelings for you, I wanted the best for you" sounds like someone who was in love and lost it. "I need to know that this is it" says to me "idiot just acknowledge your feelings about me". So I'm writing her back tommorrow (my friend is proofreading now to make sure i don't say something incorrectly) to tell her we should meet up so I can tell her how i feel about her. It now finally feels like the right time to tell her. I need to know how she feels, so I can totally go on or move on with my life. I think she feels the same way i do, but like me is just too scared to say it (she once accused me of "being unable to get close to someone"). Let me know what you think, and how i should go about telling her. I appareciate it. I've gone really long again, so i hope you were able to make your way through this.

[Mr Spock]

You have the biggest posts I've seen on loveshack so far...it's ENORMOUS.

[FsuBA34]

i'm bumping this because it explains some of the background to my current situation