Robert Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 Continuing the discussion. Some quotes from long dead monks will be interspersed in this note. There is a good reason for looking to other cultures and periods in time for insight in matters of the heart. Its too easy to simply be a product of your own environment. The thoughts of others from a different environment can be an eye opener. " Every human bond serves love's cause, whether in the relationship of parent to children or children to parents, whether in the deeper and closer relationship of a husband to his wife or a wife to her husband, whether in any one of all of the relationships that make up human society. In all of these, love attracts them either to advance or to strive to advance towards a simple principle of unity. John of Ford ( +1220 Cistercian Monk ) "Love's birthplace is God. There it is born, there it is nourished, there it is reared. There it is at home and not a tourist, but a native. For by God alone ia love given and in him it endures...." William of Thierry ( +1148 Cistercian Monk ) "Each and every kind of love reveals some small resemblance to that true and everlasting love, if anyone takes the trouble to look for it." John of Ford "Friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God and everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God. Anyone who does not love can never have known God, for God is love. 1John 4:7-9 (Bible) So, the above quotes reflect their conviction that there is only one thing called "love" and that this capacity to love comes from God alone. That this one love permeates all of our human relationships provided we possess this capacity to love, which only comes from God. "God's love is to our love, to our natural affections, as our soul is to our body. If it is in it, it is alive..." William of Thierry "The love of God is born in a man by grace..." William of Thierry {love of God does not mean for God, its that type of love that comes from God as opposed to selfish love or lust love etc.} "Love is the fountain of life, and the soul which does not drink from it cannot be called alive." Bernard of Clairvaux ( +1153 Cistercian Monk ) So, this capacity to love that only comes from God, known as God's love, enlivens our natural animal level affections. It makes them more fully human (physical and spiritual). "Love is God, and no created thing can satisfy a person made to the image of God except God who is love" Bernard of Clairvaux "Sanctity is not a matter of being less human, but more human than other men. This implies a greater capacity for concern, for suffering, for understanding, for sympathy, and also for humor, for joy, for appreciation of the good and beautiful things of life." Thomas Merton ( + 1970 [or there about] Monk ) "Who can love another person if he does not love himself" Aelred of Rievaulx ( +1167 Cistercian Monk ) So, one gains the capacity to love by seeking goodness. By choosing to do good and not evil. Every good thing we do increases our capacity to love and every evil act we commit reduces our capacity to love. God gives and takes away immediately and does not wait until we die. Pursuing holiness or sanctity makes us more fully human. Not sensitivity training, not techniques, not imitating other lovers just pure and simple hearted being good. Therefore love is available to everyone and is not limited to those who understand deep theoretical things. High conversations and knowledge is not required. (St Francis of Assissi forbade his monks to study or read. Rather, seek God in your hearts and in the hearts of others - he taught.) The Cistercians relied not so much on book knowledge but on silence and sharing to learn more deeply to love God, themselves and one another. I travel on business this Friday and all of next week. I then am around for one week. Then travel for another week. Sorry I'll be missing out on the conversation. It appears that your messages will be deleated before I return since they only list the last 1500 or so. Robert Link to post Share on other sites
Deejette Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 In this thrill-seeking, hyper-sexual, ego-bound and materialistic age we are living in, being good is not a high priority on most peoples lists of pursuits. Having fun, being happy, being rich, feeling strong sensations drive more people than the desire to be good. Being good does not get the great press that being bad does. Whole magazines are devoted to the downfall of the rich and famous into drugs, divorce, and disfavor. This is what catches our attention, tabloids, not accounts of how unselfish, kind, good, wholesome, and compassionate a person is. So how do we make being good appealing to the masses and not just be the pursuit of the saintly and religious? Continuing the discussion. Some quotes from long dead monks will be interspersed in this note. There is a good reason for looking to other cultures and periods in time for insight in matters of the heart. Its too easy to simply be a product of your own environment. The thoughts of others from a different environment can be an eye opener. " Every human bond serves love's cause, whether in the relationship of parent to children or children to parents, whether in the deeper and closer relationship of a husband to his wife or a wife to her husband, whether in any one of all of the relationships that make up human society. In all of these, love attracts them either to advance or to strive to advance towards a simple principle of unity. John of Ford ( +1220 Cistercian Monk ) "Love's birthplace is God. There it is born, there it is nourished, there it is reared. There it is at home and not a tourist, but a native. For by God alone ia love given and in him it endures...." William of Thierry ( +1148 Cistercian Monk ) "Each and every kind of love reveals some small resemblance to that true and everlasting love, if anyone takes the trouble to look for it." John of Ford "Friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God and everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God. Anyone who does not love can never have known God, for God is love. 1John 4:7-9 (Bible) So, the above quotes reflect their conviction that there is only one thing called "love" and that this capacity to love comes from God alone. That this one love permeates all of our human relationships provided we possess this capacity to love, which only comes from God. "God's love is to our love, to our natural affections, as our soul is to our body. If it is in it, it is alive..." William of Thierry "The love of God is born in a man by grace..." William of Thierry {love of God does not mean for God, its that type of love that comes from God as opposed to selfish love or lust love etc.} "Love is the fountain of life, and the soul which does not drink from it cannot be called alive." Bernard of Clairvaux ( +1153 Cistercian Monk ) So, this capacity to love that only comes from God, known as God's love, enlivens our natural animal level affections. It makes them more fully human (physical and spiritual). "Love is God, and no created thing can satisfy a person made to the image of God except God who is love" Bernard of Clairvaux "Sanctity is not a matter of being less human, but more human than other men. This implies a greater capacity for concern, for suffering, for understanding, for sympathy, and also for humor, for joy, for appreciation of the good and beautiful things of life." Thomas Merton ( + 1970 [or there about] Monk ) "Who can love another person if he does not love himself" Aelred of Rievaulx ( +1167 Cistercian Monk ) So, one gains the capacity to love by seeking goodness. By choosing to do good and not evil. Every good thing we do increases our capacity to love and every evil act we commit reduces our capacity to love. God gives and takes away immediately and does not wait until we die. Pursuing holiness or sanctity makes us more fully human. Not sensitivity training, not techniques, not imitating other lovers just pure and simple hearted being good. Therefore love is available to everyone and is not limited to those who understand deep theoretical things. High conversations and knowledge is not required. (St Francis of Assissi forbade his monks to study or read. Rather, seek God in your hearts and in the hearts of others - he taught.) The Cistercians relied not so much on book knowledge but on silence and sharing to learn more deeply to love God, themselves and one another. I travel on business this Friday and all of next week. I then am around for one week. Then travel for another week. Sorry I'll be missing out on the conversation. It appears that your messages will be deleated before I return since they only list the last 1500 or so. Robert Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 So how do we make being good appealing to the masses and not just be the pursuit of the saintly and religious? Previously, back when people were connected to reality, simply because reality had very harsh consequences, the connection between the true, the good and the beautiful was understood. It wasn't too long ago that people knew that the ability to actually love was connected to goodness. They were taught this as children just as they are now taught (media) that lust and violence is the norm. Now people have also been fed with ideas that guilt, feeling sorry for having done wrong, is bad. Worse yet, they are taught that every value is relative and to not let society burden you with values (a contradiction since you then become burdened with this value that also is not of your own choosing). Further, by some faulty logic people think you can't make an adult choice about love relationships unless you tried everything and then choose. Of course, you then cannot choose the one thing that is known to work - innocence. Help a person understand that their ability to love is connected to thier pursuit of goodness and you have won them over. The simple reason being that the first moment they actually pursue goodness, they feel joy. True spiritual growth is self-validating. Robert Link to post Share on other sites
Taressa Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 So how do we make being good appealing to the masses and not just be the pursuit of the saintly and religious? I think man falls into the same category as all nature, let go we fall into decay. So I believe the answer to changing the masses would be to personally latch onto God and pursue His desires over our own. God is interested in the individuals that make up the masses. That's why he gave us prayer, so that we can have a personal relationship with him. That relationship lifts us above all other influences. All the darkness in the world cannot put out the light of one candle. Be that candle. And teach your child to be the next. Good night everyone, Taressa And Robert, have a good trip. Link to post Share on other sites
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