the mystery of men - what is going in those heads of yours?

[dear_darling]

hi!

 

it seems that my problem is the same as many others have here.

 

men are such mysterious creatures. i am totally baffled by how they act, and i really don't get it at all. 6 months ago i broke up with my boyfriend, and since i keep running into the same kind of weird behavior from the guys i date. i don't understand it all - here are some of those strange stories i have to share:

 

one guy i met at a club and he was the one all over me. we exchanged numbers, but he didn't actually call, he sent me sms a week later - que - and asked me if i wanted to go for a coffee. ok, why not, maybe he's shy, i thought. i answered yes, and guess what - he took an enitre week to answer that. by that time i had basically forgotten that he exists, but still, i said yes again, and he took 2 days to reply. that's when i told him that his snail-speed is getting on my nerves, and that sms isn't a nice way of communicating. or, that's what i thought, i was nice, but told him that i wasn't interested. obviously.

 

then the second mr. strange - we dated for a while, but very soon there was a pattern - he could never do anything i suggested, something went wrong each time, and so he would come up with a plan that suited him. that's fine by me, but the guy had such a hard time planning ahead, that it was always the last minute date. and i got tired of calling him, because i knew that each time i would come up with a suggestion, he simply would say no. why??? so we drifted apart.

 

recently i met yet another cutie, and him i really like. this is a story yet to have an ending. we had an amazing first date a couple of days ago. i say amazing because it was, and i didn't want it to end, and he didn't want it to end. the idea is that we do something tonight, and the night is young, but i haven't heard from him yet. that's ok, but i have a creepy feeling that he won't call. maybe he will call tomorrow instead, and i'll be in a bad mood...

 

why why why don't men do what they say they want to do? if it's a game, i don't get it. i'm not 16, i'm nearing 30 and so are they, and i can take the harsh facts of life.

 

a girlfriend of mine is telling me that i should lie to them in the beginning, basically tell them that i am 23, a flight attendent, and talk about make-up. but is that the way to the second date? i find it absurd, totally absurd, but what is she actually has a point? because i really am at the end of my wits....

[Bojickwoman]

You need to start reading "Mars and Venus on a Date" by John Gray Ph.D. It will open up your eyes. Men and women DO think differently and women interpret the things that men do incorrectly as well as men interpret the things women do incorrectly. I highly recommend this book and all the Mars/Venus books. Very useful and practical information. It will change your outlook.

[KANSAN]

? I'M A GUY AND I SEE THE PROBLEM YOU HAVE IN A DIFFERENT WAY. WOMEN ALWAYS SAY WHATS WRONG WITH MEN WHEN THEY SHOULD LOOK IN THE MIRROR, MABY NOT YOU BUT ALOT OF THE WOMEN I MEET PLAY GAMES AND THEY (YOU LADIES) CAN BE 100 TIMES RUDER, MEANER AND CRUELER THAN ANY MAN. MEN PROTECT THEMSELFS BECAUSE OF WOMEN .

[Reckless]

I know a fair amount of people hate this book but it might be an eye opener to read 'The rules' too by Ellen Fein/Sherrie Schneider also. While some would say, hopelessly manipulative, personally I think it just highlights some basic man/woman behavior that our grandmothers knew but no one thought to write a book about.

 

Basically, men usually need time to think about things. They love the challenge but when it comes to moving in for the kill will have to sit under a tent somewhere, cleaning their riffles and deciding if they the lovely leopard skin goes with the decor in their apartment or not. Of course some are just 'players' but I wouldn't throw a good guy back because he withdrew for a couple of days.

 

That said, the 'club/sms' guy didn't sound like a keeper and there is of course a line between being careful and just plain rude but if the cute guy you saw (and felt good vibes with) needs to take time off before he calls, let him. Get on with your life and understand sometimes it's not a 'game', it's just a guy being a guy. Sometimes it's a guy whose wife as found your number and thrown it out but don't rule out that they're not all 'players' or 'loosers' because they don't jump in when it looked like they would.

 

When we see something nice we want to jump in, arms and legs flaying madly in all directions, men generally don't do that; the better it is, the bigger it is. The bigger it is, the more they have to think about it. I have a friend who had a great first date with a man, and she 'knew' that he was the one. He didn't call for two weeks but when he did, it was all systems go. They've been married for over 10 years now, but she still remembers the 'hell' of waiting for two weeks and wondering if she misread the signals. Now this is a guy who takes an hour to pick out the right detergent to wash his shirts so with time she realized that that was just his careful nature.

 

I'm not recommending accepting shoddy behavior, rudeness or being a last minute consolation date, just a little understanding of the difference between Mars and Venus.

[faux]

Originally posted by dear_darling

why why why don't men do what they say they want to do? if it's a game, i don't get it. i'm not 16, i'm nearing 30 and so are they, and i can take the harsh facts of life.

 

I am a man, and I do as I say I am going to do. I think it is a people problem that one's word is no longer able to be taken seriously these days. I do not believe this can be associated directly with men, as I have experienced women doing the same.

 

a girlfriend of mine is telling me that i should lie to them in the beginning, basically tell them that i am 23, a flight attendent, and talk about make-up. but is that the way to the second date? i find it absurd, totally absurd, but what is she actually has a point? because i really am at the end of my wits....

 

Lying is a horrible idea. Relationships are based on trust and honesty, and I do not believe that one can form a relationship of any sort unless one is honest.

[StartingAgain]

Seems to me like you're attracted to the jerk game players. Maybe you need to fix your picker. And forget "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" It's psychobabble BS for the most part. Men are from Earth and Women are from Earth. period. Forget "The Rules" too. Women who follow "The Rules" are playing games and decent guys won't play games with you.

 

I'm back out in the dating game after having been out of it for a long time. It has got so complicated and toxic in the intervening years. The reason for this I think is that too many people have been reading these so-called experts' advice on how we are supposed to conduct ourselves in affairs of the heart. Everyone's living their live according to these silly books, or the latest article in some men's or women's magazine.

[moimeme]

Actually, Mars & Venus is quite good. I don't go along with Grey 100%, but his explanation of how men behave was VERY useful for me, and I've found it to be true. He broke the 'guy code' and told their secrets

 

Everyone's living their live according to these silly books, or the latest article in some men's or women's magazine.

 

Actually, they're not, and it's a pity. Rather, they read those articles and then continue to behave exactly as they always did. Which is *really* the secret to people Hey! Maybe I should write a book!

[StartingAgain]

I like you use of the reflexive, moimeme.... Hey, people may not be playing games there in Beautiful BC (you guys are Canadians, after all), but they most assuredly are where I live. There was an article and survey of men in our local paper a couple of months back. The men here are, by and large, disgusted with womens' shallowness, materialism, head games, and demand that their man essentiall be a "Stepford Boyfriend." I don't know if the paper has done a similar article/survey of the women, but they should. Then everyone should hit the singles bars and clubs in midtown and scream "we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore." LOL

 

Do you know if I ask a lady out and we have a great time, I'm not supposed to call her for at least three days? If I have sex with her, I'm supposed to wait a week! If I call her the next day, I'm probably "desperate" and she should dump me and move on. Besides I'm supposed to ignore her (especially if we've had sex) for awhile to increase the mystery and keep her off balance. A *woman* told me this! And some of the horror stories they guys are telling me about dating is enough to make me consider a monastic life. Start looking at the front cover of Cosmo. In most issues there's an article about having great sex, another about how to catch a man, and another on why you don't need a man -- or some variation on these themes. I have a lady friend who took a subscription to Cosmo and I told her to check me out on my observation. She did and called me about four months later as said "Hey, you are so right! This mag is positively schizo! No wonder women are so confused if they are reading this trash and thinking this is the way it's supposed to be."

 

I'm with you faux. For every bad quality of men that someone can come up with, there's one for women. No one is behaving very well anymore. I always do what I say and say what I mean. I never lie and I don't tolerate lying. If I find a woman has lied to me, it's over.

[moimeme]

If people are that bad where you live, then move!

 

No woman I know is anything like that. Nor would she put up with the 'rules' crap. As for Cosmo - sometimes it has good sex tips but it's hilarious at best.

 

Look. You seem to be a fairly intelligent guy. You know that any woman who firmly believes in 'the rules' or in Cosmo as a lifestyle may not be a candidate for employment at JPL. Fact is, the brighter you are, the fewer 'possibles' there are out there.

 

I'd quit looking in singles bars and clubs, BTW. Try a philosophy cafe. Try a book club. Try someplace where equally bright people may meet; courses, lectures, etc. Really, you can't go places which cater to shallow lifestyles expecting to find people there who are not shallow, now can you. Sure, intelligent, interesting people also go to bars once in a while, but it's likely not their chief form of entertainment so that's not the best place to be doing your hunting.

[StartingAgain]

Eh?

 

Oh, believe me, moimeme, I *do not* do the singles bar scene at all. I went to one just for kicks a few weeks back. It was hilarious. So many peacocks strutting around so many coy hens. Everyone talking at, but not to one another. I was half expecting the guys to start sniffing butts. But I suppose my behavior 20 years ago wasn't too different.

 

I'm doing some on-line dating. That's a mixed bag. But at least there you can tell whether someone has enough neurons firing upstairs to know that Aristotle wasn't a 1980's headbanger band. Normally I go to places like museums, galleries, botanical gardens, the symphony, plays, etc. But I do these thing because I enjoy them, not because I'm on an intellectual bootie hunt. It's the "hunting" part that makes me uneasy.

 

Besides, sex is *easy* to get. Finding someone you'd want to spend time with fully clothed is the challenge.

 

BTW, I picked on Cosmo, but men have their own eye-roller trash rags. If you want to see how misogyny is growing in America, just check out http://www.askmen.com. Scarey stuff.

[moimeme]

I was half expecting the guys to start sniffing butts

 

ROTFL!!! And EEEWWW!

 

But at least there you can tell whether someone has enough neurons firing upstairs to know that Aristotle wasn't a 1980's headbanger band.

 

Agreed. If someone can communicate in writing effectively, there's some hope for enjoyable conversation.

 

It's the "hunting" part that makes me uneasy.

 

Indeed.

 

Finding someone you'd want to spend time with fully clothed is the challenge.

 

Word ( )

 

BTW, I picked on Cosmo, but men have their own eye-roller trash rags. If you want to see how misogyny is growing in America, just check out http://www.askmen.com. Scarey stuff.

 

I'm in too good a mood today. I'll check it out when I'm grumpy anyway. Could be a few weeks

[StartingAgain]

Here's some dating and relationship "advice" I have read recently on the web. These prove just how messed up some people's thinking is. My comments are in parentheses.

 

From a site for women:

 

1. If he is not on speaking terms with his ex, it is probably because he has done something so horrible that she refuses to have any contact with him. You should nt pursue a relationship with him.

(talk about presumptive! Automatically, a lack of communication with an ex is evidence that there's something horribly wrong with him)

 

2. Get the name and phone number of his ex. Call her up and tell her that you are considering having a relationship with her former lover/husband. Ask her to tell you everything she knows about him and why the two of them broke up.

(If I were to learn that a woman was going to my ex to check me out. I'd end the relationship on the spot. This behavior is called emotional betrayal.)

 

3. Do a background check and hire a private investigator to follow him for a few days. Was he where is said he was today?

(I don't know where this background check idea came from. It may seem like a good idea on the surface, since there are guys who conceal a seedy past. But I think it indicates a level of paranoia so high that such a woman is not a good candidate for a relationship. She'll never trust you. Hiring a PI is completely over the top and a violation of privacy. None of this is necesary. It a man is trying to conceal an unsavory past or is a player, he's trip himself up. If the relationship is paced properly, this'll happen before you get in too deep. Just pay attention.)

 

4. If he ever fails to do something he say's he will do, dump him. For example if he says he'll call you at 7:30 and you don't hear from him until 9:00, he isn't dependable and you don't need that. If he ever breaks a date, regardless of his reason, end it.

(Or he could be stuck in a meeting at work, taking care of a family emregency, or something equally trivial. So require that he essentially turn full control of his life over to you and make sure that if he makes one wrong step he's history.)

 

From a site for men:

 

1. If she is really interested in you she should be willing to have sex with you by the second or third date. So go for it. If she turns you down, look for someone else.

(This could indicate that she isn't a slut who thinks she has to have sex with every man she encounters. That'll never do.)

 

2. If she IM's you at work, don't respond for at least 15 minutes. Keep her waiting. You don't want her to think your overly inerested in her and it will increase her anticipation.

(I don't know what to say about this logic. Is it from How to Be Rude is Six Easy Steps?)

 

3. Do something outrageous or even a bit scarey to see how she reacts.

(She may do something completely silly like excuse herself and climb out the ladies room window.)

 

4. Hit on one of her girlfriends in front of her. Be blatant about it. This should irritate her a bit. If she over-reacts, she probably has self esteem problems.

(Or she may think you are a pig who is just looking for some nookie from anyone who'll play.)

 

5. Never spend the night with her the first time you have sex. You should leave within a hour of finishing. This will let her know that you have other things to do and you won't be easly reeled in just because you've sex. Do not call her or send her flowers the next day.

(Let her know that you just used her as a sex toy and that you don't respect her as a person. Women just love that.)

 

Someone ouatta sell tickets.....

[moimeme]

Great answers to the men's ones. Now, about the women's ones, sadly there is some truth to them. The warnings are a bit stringent and I definitely don't agree with dumping someone because he didn't call when he said he would, but women do have reasons to be fearful. I don't agree with a PI, either, but it is worth doing a police check or some sort of background check.

 

Before you flip, I'll tell you why. I'm sure that every woman you talk to can tell you a true story of someone she has known having come to grief because of not being cautious enough. Doing a check removes one more potential worry.

 

In fact, if some fellow wanted to do a police check on me, that'd be fine. It's my opinion that if a person has nothing to hide, s/he should never fear inquiries into their lives. I don't think anyone should be paranoid, but having ended up in a couple of unfortunate relationships myself, I'm more cautious than I used to be.

 

It a man is trying to conceal an unsavory past or is a player, he's trip himself up.

 

Unfortunately, this isn't the case. The real good ones are also real good at concealing their bad selves. Very bright women have been conned. Professional, educated women have ended up with abusers. We really do need to be cautious because the world ain't a nice place and there are a lot of people who ain't nice in it. However, most of the methods suggested make no sense. If a couple isn't on speaking terms, it could be that the woman treated the guy so badly he no longer wants contact with her.

 

BTW, you should have provided the sources. Mods here often delete lengthy unattributed quotes.

 

That you found a couple sites with awful advice doesn't mean people are considering them credible. If people followed the advice they were given in the books they read and the sites they click on, everybody would be thin and in happy, loving relationships since many advice-givers actually do offer helpful advice. Dr. Phil has plenty of excellent rules for having good relationships, for instance. People read the stuff but few ever put the ideas into action.

[sportsloving]

From a site for women:

 

1. If he is not on speaking terms with his ex, it is probably because he has done something so horrible that she refuses to have any contact with him. You should nt pursue a relationship with him.

(talk about presumptive! Automatically, a lack of communication with an ex is evidence that there's something horribly wrong with him)

 

This is so absoutely inaccurate! What is if she is the one who has done something so horrible and he has a great reason not to talk to her?? Ughs.

 

2. Get the name and phone number of his ex. Call her up and tell her that you are considering having a relationship with her former lover/husband. Ask her to tell you everything she knows about him and why the two of them broke up.

(If I were to learn that a woman was going to my ex to check me out. I'd end the relationship on the spot. This behavior is called emotional betrayal.)

 

Why would anyone go to someone's ex and talk to them? Holy buckets, do they not know that women (especially if dumped) can be catty, manipulative and cruel? In the perfect world, he and she would still be friends and there would be plenty of chances to talk (but perferably never about what happened in their relationship)

 

3. Do a background check and hire a private investigator to follow him for a few days. Was he where is said he was today?

(I don't know where this background check idea came from. It may seem like a good idea on the surface, since there are guys who conceal a seedy past. But I think it indicates a level of paranoia so high that such a woman is not a good candidate for a relationship. She'll never trust you. Hiring a PI is completely over the top and a violation of privacy. None of this is necesary. It a man is trying to conceal an unsavory past or is a player, he's trip himself up. If the relationship is paced properly, this'll happen before you get in too deep. Just pay attention.)

 

LMAO! Sure, for every date you hire a private investigator and go broke, slowly end up living under a bridge so dating won't become a possibility anyways. ;)What happened to trust, honesty, and faith in your fellow guy/gal? Besides, if someone said to me, "Hey I know you stopped off at Baskin Robbins when you said you were only going to the grocery store" ... I might have to seriously consider using my five iron on him

 

4. If he ever fails to do something he say's he will do, dump him. For example if he says he'll call you at 7:30 and you don't hear from him until 9:00, he isn't dependable and you don't need that. If he ever breaks a date, regardless of his reason, end it.

(Or he could be stuck in a meeting at work, taking care of a family emregency, or something equally trivial. So require that he essentially turn full control of his life over to you and make sure that if he makes one wrong step he's history.)

 

Patience is a virtue. Unless it is a steady behavior, I wouldn't dump someone over one late or missed call. Things come up, life goes on.

 

From a site for men:

 

1. If she is really interested in you she should be willing to have sex with you by the second or third date. So go for it. If she turns you down, look for someone else.

(This could indicate that she isn't a slut who thinks she has to have sex with every man she encounters. That'll never do.)

 

This is bulls***. I have been in a LDR for two years, have visited and been with him but we have never had a sexual relationship as of yet. There are very solid and real reasons behind it, somethings are just well worth the wait. Anticipation is also a great wonder :)

 

2. If she IM's you at work, don't respond for at least 15 minutes. Keep her waiting. You don't want her to think your overly inerested in her and it will increase her anticipation.

(I don't know what to say about this logic. Is it from How to Be Rude is Six Easy Steps?)

 

I love getting little IM's at work, or text messages and will respond as soon as I can. Good thing I didn't know there were rules about it

 

3. Do something outrageous or even a bit scarey to see how she reacts.

(She may do something completely silly like excuse herself and climb out the ladies room window.)

 

I wonder what they call outrageous and/or scary? Showing her your hairy back might make her swoon but asking her to sky dive when she is afraid of heights could send her into panic attacks

 

4. Hit on one of her girlfriends in front of her. Be blatant about it. This should irritate her a bit. If she over-reacts, she probably has self esteem problems.

(Or she may think you are a pig who is just looking for some nookie from anyone who'll play.)

 

She could also think you are an idiot and don't have the attention span of an ape and therefore dump you ... leaving you all sorts of time to hit on all her friends.

 

5. Never spend the night with her the first time you have sex. You should leave within a hour of finishing. This will let her know that you have other things to do and you won't be easly reeled in just because you've sex. Do not call her or send her flowers the next day.

(Let her know that you just used her as a sex toy and that you don't respect her as a person. Women just love that.)

 

Yep Yep. This attitude would surely make ones heart beat stop. Ouch.

 

I hate the "rules and regulations of dating". And if they are creating some manual, why do they not give it out to everyone so at least playing the game is on even fields?

 

IMHO, if you like someone ... call them. I don't care if it is the day after the date, if it is just to say hi, or if you want to ask them out again ten minutes after the first date.

 

With these kinds of sites relating to dating, no wonder the membership on LS seems to grow by leaps and bounds everyday Good for LS, bad for those looking for loving, real, lasting relationships

[moimeme]

IMHO, if you like someone ... call them. I don't care if it is the day after the date, if it is just to say hi, or if you want to ask them out again ten minutes after the first date.

 

Absolutely. If someone likes you, they'll be glad to hear from you. Those 'rules' are for when one person is trying to 'win' someone else who is dubious about them. The idea, I guess, is to not foist oneself upon someone who may not want your company. But to that I say why bother anyway? If someone isn't glad to hear from you, I figure it's unlikely they'll change that opinion anyway so move on to somebody who is glad you call the day after the date.

 

A couple fellows I've spent time with called me when they got home after we'd gone out. I loved it! It sends the message that one's company is pleasant enough that one's companion didn't tire of it and, in fact, wants more

[StartingAgain]

My point is that in the course of 20 years, people in the US seem to distrust first and trust only when absolutly certain that you won't get hurt. I say trust first until given a reason to mistrust.

 

Moimeme, the only way you can do a backgroud check on someone is to have enough personal information about them that you could, if you desired, steal their identity. I would never give this information to someone I'd only known a short time. I'd have a BIG problem with a woman checking up on me. I have nothing to hide, but I will only divulge certain private matters to someone I trust with my life. A new girlfriend doesn't fall into that category. If I have to subject myself to a criminal background check as a prerequisite condition to a possible relationship, that relationship isn't going to happen. What's next? A credit report? Maybe copies of my bank statements? Whether my stock portfolio outperforms the S&P 500? A DNA test? I can understand that a woman must be careful, but i still think that this is a tad extreme.

 

We roll our eyes at these things and make jokes. But, unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there who do take these things seriously. My extracts from the sites are paraphrased, not direct quotes (copyrights and all that). And I don't remember the URLs I was just clicking on links in a search.

[moimeme]

My point is that in the course of 20 years, people in the US seem to distrust first and trust only when absolutly certain that you won't get hurt. I say trust first until given a reason to mistrust

 

I wish I could live that way. I've tried it. Come to grief. You have to be careful, unfortunately. You simply can't bumble through life blithely expecting that only good will befall you without being cautious because that way can lie a great deal of trouble. You are a lucky man if you haven't been lied to, lied about, or in other ways badly deceived. An awful lot of people tried to trust first and have been badly damaged as a result. I'd like to pretend the world is a nicer place, but even in the last few days, I've seen evidence that there are plenty of reasons not to trust people. It disappoints me gravely, but I'll not ignore proof when it's staring me in the face.

 

As for background checks, they aren't that hard to get. Most cities have property information online, for one thing, so if someone claims to own a house, you can check. You can get police reports from police departments sometimes. Now, if you meet a fellow who's been long-established in a city, has friends, and otherwise shows he's been leading a fairly normal life, it isn't likely necessary. However, if the person you're interested in has a patchy past or no real friends despite having lived someplace quite a while or there are less signs that his life is fairly normal, it's worth a check.

 

Meanwhile, thank your lucky stars and count your blessings that nothing has happened to you to shake your faith in people. I wish I could say the same. However, I do have people in my life that I trust utterly so don't be thinking me a total cynic!

[sportsloving]

I am weird I thinks~

 

I trust people (as far as one can trust one doesn't know) until they give me reason to not to. I believe what folks say til I find out differently. I believe that everyone has good in them until they show they are spawn of Satan.

 

I have gotten burned, lied to, lied about, and used but in all reality for me, I can't hold anothers past mistakes against someone I do not know. Just because my first ex cheated on me, doesn't mean the next guy would.

 

I have several "friends" who I would have done anything for, turn their back on me because of something they "heard" without questioning it or the motives behind it. It is sad to me that the majority of people are willing to believe the worst without actually any facts to stand behind.

 

I hope I never stop believing in people, and I hope people never stop believing in me

[ladyangel]

Originally posted by sportsloving

I am weird I thinks~

 

I trust people (as far as one can trust one doesn't know) until they give me reason to not to. I believe what folks say til I find out differently. I believe that everyone has good in them until they show they are spawn of Satan.

 

I have gotten burned, lied to, lied about, and used but in all reality for me, I can't hold anothers past mistakes against someone I do not know. Just because my first ex cheated on me, doesn't mean the next guy would.

 

I have several "friends" who I would have done anything for, turn their back on me because of something they "heard" without questioning it or the motives behind it. It is sad to me that the majority of people are willing to believe the worst without actually any facts to stand behind.

 

I hope I never stop believing in people, and I hope people never stop believing in me

Bravo!! And if it's any consolation, I'm "weird" too.

 

It's sad when people are so distrustful and cautious that they miss out on a lot that life has to offer.

 

I hold it true, whate'er befall;

I feel it, when I sorrow most;

'Tis better to have loved and lost

Than never to have loved at all.

 

Alfred Tennyson

[moimeme]

Sigggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

There is a difference between spilling all the personal details of your life to a stranger right off the bat - which would be 'trusting' and waiting until you find out what sort of person you're dealing with first - which is my definition of 'cautious'. Back in the old days, everybody in town knew everybody so you didn't need fancy ways to find out what somene was like because the rumour mill filled you in. Today you need slightly more sophisticated means, although my friend who ended up with someone who has murdered someone found that out from good old-fashioned gossip.

 

I have nothing to hide, but I will only divulge certain private matters to someone I trust with my life. A new girlfriend doesn't fall into that category

 

Which means that you don't trust people 'fully' either. That is my point.

[sportsloving]

Originally posted by moimeme

Sigggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

There is a difference between spilling all the personal details of your life to a stranger right off the bat - which would be 'trusting' and waiting until you find out what sort of person you're dealing with first - which is my definition of 'cautious'. Back in the old days, everybody in town knew everybody so you didn't need fancy ways to find out what somene was like because the rumour mill filled you in. Today you need slightly more sophisticated means, although my friend who ended up with someone who has murdered someone found that out from good old-fashioned gossip.

 

I have nothing to hide, but I will only divulge certain private matters to someone I trust with my life. A new girlfriend doesn't fall into that category

 

Which means that you don't trust people 'fully' either. That is my point.

 

There are most definitely things in my life that I am not willing to share with just any person ... I have to fully believe they know "me" before I can open myself up to their scrunity. And no, I don't think anyone can trust anyone fully to begin with. You give them the trust they deserve and hopefully they are able to grow with it

 

On the same token, many many people are willing to hold other's actions against the world and trust no one til they are proved to be trusted. Too me, that is a very sad way to live. It is very difficult to disprove others opinions ... no matter how unfounded

[StartingAgain]

My ex lied every time she told me she loved me. She didn't. She married me only so she could quit work, earn two graduate degrees, take two year off "just for herself," and look for the perfect job. Well, she found that perfect job, she started having an affair with an old college boyfriend. Then she kept me chasing my tail for a year while I tried to keep our marriage from flying apart. Finally she hit me with divorce papers out of the blue, move out bought a house, and moved her OM in. The two of them had been secretly planning this for months. To rub salt in the wound, her reasoning for the divorce -- the one she's given her friends, family and me -- is that I am a controlling, manipulating and abusive man. I'm not of these things. She did this because she is selfish, misguided and incredibly stupid. But she isn't evil.

 

So I know about having your trust shattered. But should I judge you for her mistakes? Do I automatically assume you will do me wrong? Should I hide in a cave and come out only when I know there is no ganger of my being hurt again? I also know that if I allow mistrust to govern my dealings with everyone, I'm going to live a long, bitter and lonely life. I choose not do do this. I'll judge each person on his or her merits and know that I have to take my chances.

 

Do all the background checks you want. It may keep you away from someone who has broken the law, but most people haven't broken the law and they could still be a world of hurt waiting to happen. I think the trick is to proceed slowly and pay close attention to how a man conducts his life. As you say, examine his friends. Are they the sort of people you'd associate with? If so, how do they regard him? Is he respected and admired? Is he open to inquiries about his past? Is he consistent? the list goes on. You could check off every question you can think of and still may get hurt. We don't mean to hurt people, we don'st set out to do it, but we still do it. The mark of a good moral, man isn't that he will never hurt you, but that he will admit when he is wrong and try to make things right when he comes to realize hes hurt someone.

 

One other thing. I believe that one of the reasons the divorce rate is so high is that people unrealistically believe that they will never get hurt. That their mate is going to be the model of perfection. Unfortunately, we can't marry Jesus. People aren't perfect -- not a single one of us. When the going gets tough, they just chuck it in and walk away.

[moimeme]

I'll judge each person on his or her merits and know that I have to take my chances.

 

Exactly.

 

You could check off every question you can think of and still may get hurt.

 

You mistake my intent. I agree it's almost impossible to guard against being hurt emotionally. I am talking about actual physical safety and well-being. I am talking about managing to keep oneself away from people who actually, physically hurt others, who have some major problem like alcohol abuse, or who are con men. I'm talking about the flat broke ones who are that way because they're trouble. I'm talking about practicalities in terms of finding a fairly normal mortal who at least won't beat or bankrupt one.